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I don't think Josh did a great job there, but Paul completely bombed it and Josh probably just won the game.
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Sep 21, 2017 02:24
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I like Kevin's magician outfit.
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Sep 21, 2017 02:32
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Fat Lowtax posted:The fact that the Josh votes were a solid trio (Mark/Cody/Elena) and a couple (Jason/Alex) makes me think the votes were set in stone, and all Paul did was fail to sway anyone away from Josh, but I really want to hear the people in that voting group speak out about what happened in there. I don't know if Jason/Alex could have been swayed tonight, but I do think one of them could have if he handled their exits differently. The issue with those two was that they had it in their heads that Paul could not betray them because that would break his "brand" of friendship. Even though that was an idea that Alex completely made up, because Paul never really correct them on that they thought that Paul betraying them was Paul betraying his own brand, especially when he still lied in the goodbye messages. I think they lost a lot of respect for him as a result. You can sort of see that in the roundtable segment where Alex refuses to admit she lied in the game. She got caught up so much in the narrative that her, Paul, and Jason were an honest trio that were physically incapable of lying, that when Paul did it and never really admitted to it, that felt like a much bigger betrayal than it should have. Someone lying to your face is a lot harder to stomach when you spent the entire summer thinking that that was not actually a possibility, and no one bothered to correct you on it until it was too late. Now obviously if Paul had pulled a Dr. Will and was more upfront from the beginning about deception being okay and part of his and everyone's game, even though he may have won the jury vote it would have been a lot harder for him to actually get to the end. But that's ultimately what the jury was getting at: he took a "cheap" path to the end by letting people believe things that would get him far but would leave his scorned allies feeling very hurt and confused and lose respect for him.
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Sep 21, 2017 04:08
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STAC Goat posted:Personally I can't really stomach rewarding people who behaved badly and treated people badly with a prize like this. That's my thing and its obviously subjective about how I feel about the things he said and did. Everyone is free to judge and react as they wish - you, me, Audrey, whoever. Like I said, I don't really expect her to push it or it to become a thing. The broader attention on this stuff tends to be driven by how the BB fanbase feels and the BB fanbase is very selective about what they're offended about and made the decision to do a 180 on Cody awhile ago. Which is why they made excuses for Cody and ignored Audrey's pleas when she did speak up. But its out there so who knows? This was really the season that made me realize just how crazy the BB fanbase can be. You already mentioned the absurd Cody/Jess apologism (including the deluded campaign to give Jess the hex when it was clear that Cody was about to come back and the game would just be stalled for a month), but I also found the seething hatred for Raven to be very disturbing. I mostly saw this stuff on the Big Brother subreddit, but it seemed to be everywhere in some form or another. People online seemed obsessed with how much they hated Raven and wanting to see her life destroyed outside of the game, and why? Even if *everything* she said about herself was a complete lie (probably not the case), who was she harming? She was a kooky character that didn't play the game much but at least contributed more to the show than Matt, and (as far as I know) wasn't a fundamentally mean or bigoted person. The "worst" thing she did was go after Cody the night that literally everyone went after Cody. I never saw Survivor fans try to ruin the lives of the tall-tale-tellers like Coach, Debbie, or Phillip. At "best," people are waging war with a generally harmless pathological liar with some actually disease(s) who was one of many that played a bad game this season, and at worst people are attacking a mentally ill person who was exploited by even being cast on this silly game show. And while I think the Jody apologism and Raven hatred are the worst examples of the BB fanbase, I also think the general glee with Paul's reaction to his loss last night is also really strange. Paul is not a Russell Hantz-- he's not a grown adult man that individually berated and humiliated people and destroyed people's belongings. Paul's a young 20-something kid who got weirdly good at manipulating people in a game about manipulating people, and in the process went slightly too far and overall contributed to the general meanspiritedness of the house this season. I believe Paul when he says he genuinely liked these people and formed actual friendships, he just lacked the self-awareness to finish out the endgame (largely because he's still pretty young and never seen the show). I think it's fine to be happy that Paul lost, but being so happy that he was so crushed by the loss is a little weird given that Paul himself is very far from the worst person to ever be cast on the show (he's not even the worst person cast on the season). If you were a young twenty-something and gave up two summers of your life and came within one vote of 500k both times, would you handle it any better?
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Sep 21, 2017 15:48
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For what it's worth, I think production actually loved this season. Because the show is edited in real time, they *like* seasons where one player or one alliance is dominating the entire time, because they can tell the story of the season better if they know roughly where it's going. It's been said that production's favorite recent season in 16, and this is definitely the season that most closely resembles 16. Between the easy-to-tell narrative, the constant fights which played better on TV than on the feeds, and a few players that gave "good" (specifically, loud and cheesy) confessionals like Josh, Paul, and Alex going far into the game, production is probably more than satisfied. Trying to predict returnees is probably a fool's errand because it depends on what "type" of player they need more of. Kevin and Jason could probably both come back, for example, but they might be redundant in a season where Donny is also returning. I think the only sure-thing returnees are Alex and Josh (and even Josh is questionable since they don't bring winners back too often), but I think pretty much everyone who made jury + Jessica is a possible returnee except for Matt and maybe Raven.
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Sep 21, 2017 15:59
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