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kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad
Ok, opened up the box of docs to the owner's manual folder, which also has some period brochures. This stuff I just really relish flipping through. It's an unvarnish look into the past of marketing and advertising copy. The typography, the photographic quality,
e: dealing with Google Photo's insanely unusable direct image urls

The user manual and supplement, both very thin. I haven't gone through them yet:


What an amazing waranty -- 6mon or 6000mi, whichever comes first:

Tbf, I have no idea what contemporary warranties from other companies were like.

An S2 brochure:


Not a lot of material. The marketing strategy seems to be:
- hey, we're in F1
- you can talk at highway speeds
- it has seats and doors
The S2 still used the S1's 1470cc Renault engine, good for 82hp, except for federalized S2s, which used a larger displacement Renault motor with about the same power.

The Twin Cam came out in 1971, using the same Lotus-tuned Ford-blocked Twin Cam motor seen in the Lotus Cortina and Lotus Elan Sprint.
This 1557cc engine put out 105hp, while the Federalized version bore "Big Valves" and put out 113hp with Stromberg carbs.
Later, the Twin Cam Special brought the Big Valve motor with Dellorto carbs to Europe/ROW, culminating in 126hp, with the Federalized motor staying on Strombergs.
The Special originated as a limited run commerating Lotus' 1972 F1 championship in John Player Special livery. The Europa was the first Lotus to gain this tribute livery.
The public loved it, so Lotus ended up keeping the Special trim and offering it in other colors.

My car, while a Special, retains the US Strombergs and had an engine rebuild to the 113hp Federalized spec. The PO did not think it made sense to make the engine more high-strung and needier to get more power, even though the builder offered as high as a 150hp race spec build (for more money, I'm sure). In theory, a 1974 car should have a 5-speed trans, but I'd not be surprised if it just came from the factory with the 4.

All Twin Cams have the dip in the rear sail panels, which improves visibility (good) and reduces the breadvan-lookingness of the car (debatable).

A Federalized Europa Special brochure:

"The Special: 4 speeds, or if you want, 5 speeds. Also mid-engined like F1 cars!"
The color palette available on Europas is really nice, and I gotta say red is kind of boring.

A more detailed fold-out Special brochure, shot in Amsterdam:

That guy in the aviators definitely has that 70s panache.
Some interesting tidbits:
- I mistated the fuel tank -- it's only 12.5gal
- it has car has different left and right turning circles. hmmm, due to rack geometry? I definitely felt the 2.3 turns lock to lock.
- the insane details about test day weather conditions and brake force and fade

The other side:

- I love when the brochure tells you're fine to enter a corner hot, break the rear tires loose, and add a dab of mustachioed oppo. The alternative advice of lifting to dial out understeer means they really trust the car's balance
- talking up things like having carpet, standard side mirrors, and adjustable heat
- the incredible period crash standards on display, including "a Lotus handles and brakes really well, which will keep you out of the wreck in the first place"

The back side of the folded-out brochure:

These low angles do a great job of the making the car look special and glamorous.

Same material, but typeset as a flyer for the 1974 NY Auto Show:

Imagine getting handed this and then looking around the show floor at the new Civic, Jeep Cherokee, and Mustang II.

kimbo305 fucked around with this message at 07:05 on Jun 27, 2017

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InitialDave
Jun 14, 2007

I Want To Believe.

kimbo305 posted:

A more detailed fold-out Special brochure, shot in Amsterdam:

That guy in the aviators definitely has that 70s panache.
Some interesting tidbits:
- I mistated the fuel tank -- it's only 12.5gal
- it has car has different left and right turning circles. hmmm, due to rack geometry? I definitely felt the 2.3 turns lock to lock.
- the insane details about test day weather conditions and brake force and fade
It looks like they pulled the test numbers from Motor magazine's testing - I don't know about US publications, but UK magazines of the time were very :awesome: about stuff like that. I can't find that specific test, but there's a contemporary one from Autocar of the 4 speed version that's similarly detailed.

I kind of miss that level of detail in magazines and brochures, some stuff about modern cars is bloody hard work to find out (e.g. ok, it's got AWD. How exactly is it set up/how does it work?)

Raluek
Nov 3, 2006

WUT.

Looks like homeboy's got 99 problems, but a 51UT is one of them.

cis_eraser_420
Mar 1, 2013

drat, man, you just keep getting my childhood dream cars. :v: I remember being fascinated by the Europa from the very second my stepfather gave me his childhood box of Matchbox cars and I found this little guy in it:



Honestly thought they were all long dead and gone and drat am I glad to be wrong. Such a cool little car.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad
Just drove the Boxster over to the shop to leave for an oil change in the morning, preparing for the drive back to FL.
Man, electronic fuel injection and engine management rules. The robustness of the motor off idle and its lack of variation as it warms up makes it so easy to drive.

The Europa in comparison is so finicky until it's warmed up, at which point it's just weak until 3k.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad


"Good impact protection, but certainly not great impact protection"

LloydDobler
Oct 15, 2005

You shared it with a dick.

I do not like those crash pictures.

My boss at the job I had back in 2006-2008 had a europa special that he'd been restoring for 15 years. As soon as it was finished he took it to a local concours and won best in class. He drove it to work once where I saw it in person, he did an amazing job. It looked like a new car.

Definitely a tiny car with a poo poo ton of character. I'll be watching and enjoying the thread, and as with your previous threads, thanks for sharing.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad
For a 44 year old car, it's in nice driver shape. The PO did a lot of work you can't see on the surface to make the car reliable. But the paint and dash have seen better days. I don't think I'll walk down the path to restoring those -- they're ok.

In trolling around looking at Europa pictures, I spotted this:


Turns out there's a bezel holding the badge, of which there are various types:


And of course some British car parts site has the badge with championships through 73:
http://www.sjsportscars.co.uk/index.php?mod=10&car=3&section=2&component=19
:getin:

everdave
Nov 14, 2005
You are not doing the dash? Totally your car your call but man it looks pretty bad. You were cross shopping with 100k plus supercars!

mekilljoydammit
Jan 28, 2016

Me have motors that scream to 10,000rpm. Me have more cars than Pick and Pull
Aha, I was wondering when a thread on this would happen. My dad had one when I was growing up that... well. The S2 thing where the body and backbone aren't bonded? There's felt between them in places. Jolly good idea that (not). Ours was a Renault engine one but later we picked up a twink and then sold all of it to someone else.

Funny what Chapman was able to do with partsbin engineering.

glyph
Apr 6, 2006



AH! Here's the europa thread.

That's a wild engine setup. Loving that the alternator (generator?) is turned by the intake cam. I'm trying to think here- is there an accessory belt on the firewall side? Probably not, right? No PS, AC...

drgitlin
Jul 25, 2003
luv 2 get custom titles from a forum that goes into revolt when its told to stop using a bad word.

kimbo305 posted:

Insurance and registration

I arranged to go get the Europa a couple of Saturdays ago. Muffinpox would drive back the spares in the Charger. On the way there, I realized I hadn't gotten insurance to drive on the Europa.
I called up Amica, and luckily got an answer. However, they said they don't deal with vehicles of this age. I remember asking them about this when I got the Boxster insured, but must have mixed up insuring kit cars vs vintage. They transfered me over to Hagerty, who asked a ton of meaningful questions about usage, what normal cars I drove, how it was garaged, and even trim -- "ok, a 1974 Europa... is it a Twin Cam Special?" Never thought I'd hear that specific a question from an insurance agent. Hagerty was ok with everything -- the seller was already a customer, which seemed to speed things along, including having on file the non-17-digit vehicle identification number: 743650R.

We got a big box of spares along with an NG3 (not stock, but compatible) transmission. The spare windshield glass is not that big, but it was in a huge box that wouldn't fit into the Charger.

We drove to my apartment and I parked the Europa, expecting to get the RMV-1 registration form by Monday, when the agent told me that specific department would process the form.
When Monday afternoon rolls around, I call Hagerty up. Apparently, they physically mail out the form, as "it needs to be physically stamped." All the other insurance companies I've used simply use a digital stamp on the PDF they email me.

I get the RMV-1 form in the mail Wednesday and have to fill in a bunch of stuff that Hagerty already asked me, but whatever.
Thursday, I go to the RMV and turn in all my paperwork. The only thing I'm slightly nervous about is the old VIN. I'd be way more nervous if I wasn't holding the previous MA-issued title, so I know it got through the system once before. The clerk doesn't ask me anything about the VIN -- must have gone in just fine. She does remind me that tax is based on book value, which works out to $15570. Not that far off from the auction price of 16750, though higher than what I expected.

Inspection

Ok, on to the last step -- inspection. As I've watched various cars pass by on BaT, I've familiarized myself with what you need to pass state inspection in Mass:
- horn
- lights and turn signals
- wipers and sprayers
- working parking brake
Oh, and installed license plates.

When I stepped out of the RMV, this is what I saw affixing the license plate to the car:

I couldn't seem to back the plastic screw out with my minitool, so decided to have the inspection shop help me out.
I show up, and explain to the tech the shift pattern. He gets nervous about getting it into gear, and has me drive into the inspection bay.
From there, the shop (rightly) puts up a fuss about needing the plates installed. I figure that since the screw just spins and spins under a screwdrive, it must be affixed from the other side somehow, not using metal threading bonded into the fiberglass.

Verifying my guess is where the extremely spare construction of the Europa comes in handy. And is probably the reason the plate is installed this way.

The trunk area is simply a fiberglass tub that sits on top of a crossmember and around the lip formed by the fenders. It's only affixed by those two big bolts, which bolt into brackets off the air filter housing:


I borrow a socket wrench and 12mm from the shop, unbolt the bolts, lift out the tub, and spot the back side of the plate screws -- they're plastic (nylon) nuts. No shot of the nuts, but here's the tub hanging out by itself:


The tech unbolts the plate and I help him put the new one on -- there's some washers and rubber spacers that make it a bit finicky. As he's buttoning up, I got some shots of the rear suspension, shown later.

Anyways, we have the rear plate swapped, so I put the tub back in and bolt it secure. The shop manager puts up a minor fuss about the front plate not having any mounting solution before leaving it be.
I turn on the lights for the tech, and that's it.
No test of the parking brake, horn, wipers, or sprayers, which all do work.

I pay my $35 and get outta there.


Have you ever wondered how you could trim some weight off a wiper fluid reservoir? Well, how bout making it a bag?:


The Fiat 600 Multipla I drove in Nashville last month also had a bag for the screen wash reservoir.

You Am I
May 20, 2001

Me @ your poasting

glyph posted:

AH! Here's the europa thread.

That's a wild engine setup. Loving that the alternator (generator?) is turned by the intake cam. I'm trying to think here- is there an accessory belt on the firewall side? Probably not, right? No PS, AC...

There would be one for the water pump.

glyph
Apr 6, 2006



You Am I posted:

There would be one for the water pump.

That could be on the timing belt/chain though, right?

Love the monster quote for a sentence from Ars tech there.

Olympic Mathlete
Feb 25, 2011

:h:

I saw one of these at a cars in the park thing last year. It was tiny and peering down into the interior (you can only ever peer down into one of these no matter if you're stood, sat, laying down...) it looked like the floor of the car was actually lower than the floor the car was sat on. Most odd. I fear Chapman may have been in league with the devil in order to create a rift in dimensions to lower the CoG on these things as it really does look like the car sits lower than it does in reality.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad
I think part of the illusion comes from the sagging belly of the car, which you can make out easily in profile on an unpaneled car:

Between the reclined seating position and the straight body line through the door, your mind might force you to think there's more depth than there is.
Looks like a cat or the door line on a 1 series.

Olympic Mathlete posted:

(you can only ever peer down into one of these no matter if you're stood, sat, laying down...)
Just because it's fun, more random size comparisons:


This one looks like it's lowered, so maybe a good 15" lower than that Mini:

BloodBag
Sep 20, 2008

WITNESS ME!



kimbo305 posted:

Just drove the Boxster over to the shop to leave for an oil change in the morning, preparing for the drive back to FL.
Man, electronic fuel injection and engine management rules. The robustness of the motor off idle and its lack of variation as it warms up makes it so easy to drive.

The Europa in comparison is so finicky until it's warmed up, at which point it's just weak until 3k.

That's the reason when people look at 914s, they're told to stay away from ones that have had the factory fuel injection removed. Not only is it an indication of PO fuckery, it is a giant step backwards from the old Bosch jetronics. Carb issues suck rear end and I don't even want that poo poo on a motorcycle.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad
Some post in a Lotus forum I was reading described the cabin space in the Europa as being wedged into a light bulb. You feet are tucked into the base, your hands have some room to find the controls, but then your head is then budging against the dome made by the windshield, roof, and door.

There's not even that much space around the steering wheel:

This is definitely the first car where I could touch the windshield with my hands on the wheel. There's a way to adjust the steering wheel depth, but I'm not sure I want to change it yet. That might give me more clearance to the glass.

As mentioned before, the wheel is small (though not tiny) and delicate:

This is how I hold my hand when cruising, not involved with a lot of winding through backroads.
My elbow is on the big trans tunnel, which is how I shift:


For spirited steering (like whenever there's potholes), I move my elbow off the tunnel so I can get more vertical range with the right hand:

I can shift from here, but it's kinda awkward. It'd be worse if there were more gears.

On the plus side, the steering is so direct and low effort that you never feel like you need both hands to feed input into the wheel.
There's not a lot of on-center feel, but there's play, either. You move that wheel even a twinge off center, and the car responds. Great for dodging potholes, since the ride quality is a bit crashy -- certain amplitude bumps and steps will bottom or near-bottom out the suspension. My Evo8 had this for certain depth holes, but it's much more pronounced here.


I was debating for a long time if I should show you guys my fleshy bare feet. I dunno, some people might be grossed out by the nails (this is like a month from a pedicure), but in the interests of describing the car! --
I've been driving barefoot because the pedalbox is so cramped. My left foot is half-resting on a narrow dead pedal:
(timged for the squeamish)

That brass collar is what clamps the splined telescoping steering column in place. Loosening allows for adjustment.


My left foot is behind the clutch, but just illustrating how much clearance I get to the right of the dead pedal. Right foot on the brake. If I go more left, I'd feel the steering column against my toe.
Note two things about the gas pedal: it's top mounted compared to the two floor mounted hydraulic pedals, and that cable that runs to the carb throttles.

I read somewhere that the RHD Europas, thanks to some layout difference, had a slightly bigger pedalbox, but contemporary reviews all griped about space, so I don't imagine it was much better.

The elbow on/off the tunnel is my biggest ergonomic gripe. I have 2 more.

The steering and pedals are offset to the right a bit. The pedals on the 348 were somewhat rightward, but the wheel was straight ahead.
I took this picture facing forward, with the lens centered on my face:

The steering column comes straight at you, so the wheel still faces you, but it's just angled toward the centerline of the car some.
Also note that the horn is on the left stalk, where some cars might have a wiper sprayer control. This probably makes it easier to swap steering wheels.

Gripe 3: the seat belt reel is really high over the shoulder of the seat. It digs into my neck. I've ordered a seat belt clip to try to bring it down some.


Ok, here's a look at the storage space locks. The "bare minimum" philosophy shows everywhere throughout this car. The only way to access the frunk and trunk are a small metal lock with a flipaway cover:


There's no releases from the cabin, cuz why would you waste all that cabling and switchgear? The lock doesn't use the ignition key, presumably because it would need a longer, heavier tumbler.

This is all just academic anyways, as a thief who wanted your stuff would just rip open the flimsy fiberglass to get inside -- the trunk lid is so floppy that when you put up the strut to hold the lid open, the unsupported side sags down half a foot.
Neither lock operates well -- the locking tab presses against a receiving bracket, and unless I relieve pressure on the tab by pushing on the frunk/trunk lid, then the tumbler won't let the key in all the way.

I'm not really sure what was standard for 1974. Was there remote locking/release for the trunk and hood?

kimbo305 fucked around with this message at 07:03 on Jul 4, 2017

Fo3
Feb 14, 2004

RAAAAARGH!!!! GIFT CARDS ARE FUCKING RETARDED!!!!

(I need a hug)
I think remote release for trunk/boot/hatch was pretty rare for ages. Some top end luxury cars had hydraulic or vacuum remote release in the 60s/70s but there was a big gap between them to where it became common in smaller or cheaper cars. It was a long time until it was cheap enough to do with an electric solenoid/actuator in the late 80s/90s, though maybe some hatchbacks got a cable release in the early 80s.
All the 1970s cars I've had (mazdas or aussie) didn't have anything for boot/trunk release, key only. Hood release via cable has been standard though.

That trans tunnel is wide and the shifter seems too far forward, but that foot well is cramped.

Grakkus
Sep 4, 2011

Awesome stuff! Old, weird cars are the best.

WRT the bonnet/boot releases, the '70 Lancia Fulvia I just bought does have a bonnet release, but it's buried inside the dashboard, you have to reach under and push a bunch of wires out of the way to get to it. No boot release though, just a lock.

mekilljoydammit
Jan 28, 2016

Me have motors that scream to 10,000rpm. Me have more cars than Pick and Pull
This might have gotten addressed somewhere, but how is the shifter action compared to, say, the 348 and compared to some normal FR cars? When we had the Europa-shaped parts piles I always looked at the shifter linkage conglomeration with more than a bit of skepticism.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad

mekilljoydammit posted:

This might have gotten addressed somewhere, but how is the shifter action compared to, say, the 348 and compared to some normal FR cars? When we had the Europa-shaped parts piles I always looked at the shifter linkage conglomeration with more than a bit of skepticism.

Afaik, the 348's shifter was only different in that the metal gates stopped the shifter so that you could hear the click -- the mechanism beneath acuating cables to the trans like other non-direct shifters. So while the shift feel on that car was good, it was more special because of the sound.

This is what the shift pattern on the Europa looks like:
code:
   1  3
   |  |
+--N--+
|  |  |
R  2  4
Not labeled on the shift knob or elsewhere, because that would be too easy and cost more. The 1 is straight forward, like where 2 would be on a conventional 5 or 6 speed.
Finding 1 is thus easy, and so are the other gates from there. The only shift I bobble is 3->2. Often I get 4 or get stuck between 2 and 4. Twice, (once on the test drive), I grated into the syncro on R.
e: there's a bit of a detente to pull left into R, but no push up/down or any other safety mechanism.

The gates are spread pretty wide, and there's only 2 positions in the top row to deal with, so it's fairly easy to operate. The shifter is fairly loose, and arriving at a gear is somewhat vague, but overall the shifter is still easy to use. Roughly comparable to the 944 I had in terms of shift effort and travel.
If I had to run down shift feel in the other interesting cars I've driven:
- Z06 was not very positive feeling but lighter effort and quick
- Viper was heavy but fairly positive
- 986 Boxster was vague and medium effort, and had a lot of travel for a small shifter, leading to extreme changes in angle
- NA Miata was on the positive side and light. Had maybe the most noticeable sluggishness with a cold trans
- S2000 had the shortest throw, most positivity, and medium effort (though compensated by the tiny distance traveled)

There have been 2 shifters I've ever driven that beat the S2000 in terms of shift satisfaction:
- the Formula Mazda trainers at Bondurant Racing School, which had these tiny 4-speed shifters that had very little left-right travel between gates, out of space necessity
- a K-Tuned shifter in a Factory Five 818 I test drove. Something like this. It was very heavy, but close to 0 slop, so almost maximal positivity

On the Europa, I've read that a perfectly tuned shift assembly makes shifting really nice. The PO said he spend some time to make it shift like it should. My biggest complaint is that it's pretty rubbery-feeling when in/around N.

Grakkus posted:

WRT the bonnet/boot releases, the '70 Lancia Fulvia I just bought -- No boot release though, just a lock.

Does it use a similarly small lock, that wouldn't really stand up to someone looking to get inside?

kimbo305 fucked around with this message at 06:32 on Jul 5, 2017

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad
As I did last time with the 348, here's what's new to me for this car:
- first British marque
- first car <2000lbs
- first car with floor-hinged clutch and brake pedals
- first carbed motor
- first 4 speed (manual, at least)

Of these, being carbed is probably the most significant to the driving experience -- I'm still trying to get used to the tetchiness up until 3k and til it's warmed up. The clutch disc is tiny and easy to overwhelm when it's only partially engaged.
4 speed is kind of a drag for the highway, where 60mph is ~3500rpm.
And finally, the low curb weight means that adding a second passenger is more noticeable than in other cars. A 170lb friend is adding 10+% weight for the motor to hustle around. It goes from pretty quick to only quick with a friend riding along.

Ether Frenzy
Dec 22, 2006




Nap Ghost
I don't really remember any cars in the 70's and 80's having a trunk release mechanism, part of why people so fondly remember relatively boring older vehicles (not that this is one of those) - nothing to go wrong in the interiors besides the window crank falling off occasionally or the ashtray pullout's plastic breaking.

Garage2Roadtrip
Oct 27, 2016

kimbo305 posted:

And finally, the low curb weight means that adding a second passenger is more noticeable than in other cars. A 170lb friend is adding 10+% weight for the motor to hustle around. It goes from pretty quick to only quick with a friend riding along.

This is a point of hilarity in my MR2. The probably 90hp at the wheels is "adequate" for just me, add wife or friend and it's just downright slowballs.

Mahatma-Squid
Nov 22, 2004

One of the last true gentlemen left alive . ';,,,,,,,,;'

Ether Frenzy posted:

I don't really remember any cars in the 70's and 80's having a trunk release mechanism, part of why people so fondly remember relatively boring older vehicles (not that this is one of those) - nothing to go wrong in the interiors besides the window crank falling off occasionally or the ashtray pullout's plastic breaking.

I recently got a little Fiat x19 and it has rear boot, engine bay and frunk release mechanisms in the cabin, although the engine and rear boot release is in the passenger side door jamb (because changing that between standard LHD and RHD would have actually required some effort.) so it's less convenient than if it were just conventional locks.

Garage2Roadtrip
Oct 27, 2016

Mahatma-Squid posted:

I recently got a little Fiat x19 and it has rear boot, engine bay and frunk release mechanisms in the cabin, although the engine and rear boot release is in the passenger side door jamb (because changing that between standard LHD and RHD would have actually required some effort.) so it's less convenient than if it were just conventional locks.

That is inconvenient. My aw11 has a gas door and boot release by the driver's door sill, engine release sorta behind the driver's seat, and frunk release in the typical bonnet location.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad

Mahatma-Squid posted:

less convenient than if it were just conventional locks.

I remember seeing a 2008 Ford Focus at a car show and asking where the trunk release was, only to hear that it open by lock or keyfob, and nothing else. Somehow that seemed cheaping out more than having a trunk release and no lock, which isn't uncommon. But nowadays, dead battery aside, it's second nature to use the fob on cars. It's weird how expectations change.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad
I wanna address a design detail on the Europa. The door is shaped such that the hinge is pretty far forward, leading to a front "tab":

(i can put my pinky into that gap, sheesh)
Door opens like this:


Ignore the widened fender on the Amemiya rotary example.

This design was pretty common. The Elan had it to an extreme:



The E-type had it:



As did the XJ-S:



And the 2000GT:



My best guess for the reasons behind the design:
when you have a long hood and short cabin, your door ends up being pretty short. Having the hinges set on an extended tab gives you some extra clearance for your feet during ingress/egress, as the pedal box sticks out in front of the cabin box defined by the windshield.

Some other thoughts:
- if you have a bulky door construction, the farther forward hinge would help sweep the bulk of the door outwards. Compared to a door with no tab and hinging near the surface of the bodywork
- for a fiberglass door, maybe they couldn't trust a more compact hinge to be riveted/bolted to the frame of the door. The tab gives you a lot of space to put in a big hinge setup: https://i.imgur.com/0FuIXmA.jpg. The original hinge rod could rust out and sag the door, so the OP did the recommended steel aftermarket replacement.
- making that foot clearance notch precludes having metal under the A-pillar, which is not good for safety
- in practice, the sill is so high and wide that it's still not straightforward to get my left foot into the car

I thought of a car that might benefit from more foot clearance but doesn't use this design -- the Mini:

I guess it's not possible given the insanely compact front end of the car. The tiny door and external hinges are good enough.

kimbo305 fucked around with this message at 02:47 on Jul 8, 2017

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

kimbo305 posted:

I remember seeing a 2008 Ford Focus at a car show and asking where the trunk release was, only to hear that it open by lock or keyfob, and nothing else. Somehow that seemed cheaping out more than having a trunk release and no lock, which isn't uncommon. But nowadays, dead battery aside, it's second nature to use the fob on cars. It's weird how expectations change.

Weird, I have a newer Focus (13) as my daily and it has a button on the dash, a button on the fob, and a button in the hatch handle.

Olympic Mathlete
Feb 25, 2011

:h:

kimbo305 posted:

I thought of a car that might benefit from more foot clearance but doesn't use this design -- the Mini:

I guess it's not possible given the insanely compact front end of the car. The tiny door and external hinges are good enough.

Yeah considering the wings are barely as long as the wheel arches you're poo poo out of luck doing it on a Mini. They rot like gently caress because the arches are basically open to everything the wheels throw up into them and the headlights slot into them so anything the wheel throws up could explode the back of your lights if you're unlucky. Also the radiator sucks air from the left hand arch which as mentioned, is open to the elements.

Minis are a masterclass in packaging but a complete loving annoyance to work on. Source: the little green that's currently living on my driveway being stored for a friend for a few months that I've spent far too long working on.

That said the doors are actually pretty 'large' and it's only an issue getting in the back, getting in the front is only a problem if you're over 6 foot tall or are a portly chap.

Nidhg00670000
Mar 26, 2010

We're in the pipe, five by five.
Grimey Drawer

kimbo305 posted:

I remember seeing a 2008 Ford Focus at a car show and asking where the trunk release was, only to hear that it open by lock or keyfob, and nothing else. Somehow that seemed cheaping out more than having a trunk release and no lock, which isn't uncommon. But nowadays, dead battery aside, it's second nature to use the fob on cars. It's weird how expectations change.

Euro Fords did this for the longest of time, and it was the most annoying poo poo, before fobs and stuff became commonplace. If you wanted to open the trunk with the car running, you had to turn it off, since you had to remove the key so you could open the trunk with it.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad

KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

Weird, I have a newer Focus (13) as my daily and it has a button on the dash, a button on the fob, and a button in the hatch handle.

I dunno if they took the criticisms for being cheap to heart, but the US Focus switched over to the global platform instead of staying on the super long-in-the-tooth C170, which presumably took care of that gap.

Nidhg00670000 posted:

If you wanted to open the trunk with the car running, you had to turn it off, since you had to remove the key so you could open the trunk with it.
Yeah, that's a really annoying interlock, but I've seen other cars where you can't pop the trunk with a cabin button if the engine's running.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

Nidhg00670000 posted:

Euro Fords did this for the longest of time, and it was the most annoying poo poo, before fobs and stuff became commonplace. If you wanted to open the trunk with the car running, you had to turn it off, since you had to remove the key so you could open the trunk with it.

I seem to remember some old Fords (late 80s early 90s) that had two keys, one for enclosures and one for the ignition.

GentlemanofLeisure
Aug 27, 2008

KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

I seem to remember some old Fords (late 80s early 90s) that had two keys, one for enclosures and one for the ignition.

Yep, my parents had 2 80's/early 90's Fords and both had separate ignition and door/trunk keys. One was an F150 and one was a Tempo.

Muffinpox
Sep 7, 2004
Just want to chime in to say riding in this car not only gives the same sensation of speed that go karts do at 60+mph, but also the same "wow I'm so loving dead if anything hits us".

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad
This baggie dropped out of one of the folders in the documentation box. Seller thinks it might be starter motor brushes, but isn't sure. Anyone?:

Raluek
Nov 3, 2006

WUT.

kimbo305 posted:

This baggie dropped out of one of the folders in the documentation box. Seller thinks it might be starter motor brushes, but isn't sure. Anyone?:



Definitely brushes for something. Starter motor or alternator, I guess. Unless it's got a generator, but it really shouldn't.

InitialDave
Jun 14, 2007

I Want To Believe.
Not sure they look like starter ones, seem very lightweight, like they're from a power tool or something.

If car related, it's possible they could be for something like the heater fan or wiper motor too?

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epic bird guy
Dec 9, 2014

kimbo305 posted:

This baggie dropped out of one of the folders in the documentation box.

Whoo boy reading that first sentence before the image loaded put some images in my mind.

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