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Theres an overhaulin episode where they rebuild a europa. The guy broke down in front of jay lenos garage so leno is a guest host. He used to race in one so they reinforce everything in his to get it track ready. It looked pretty straight forward. For the floors they drilled holes in a board and epoxied it to the floor. After that all they really had to do was layer fiberglass over the cardboard firewall. It was really the only good episode of overhaulin i have seen lol. You should check it out theres a lot of good shots of the teardown. There was also more history and tidbits than usual because leno was on it.
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Aug 1, 2017 02:56
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DogonCrook posted:He used to race in one so they reinforce everything in his to get it track ready. I wanna reinforce it just for the streets of Boston. The crashiness on some bumps (like short half-foot 45deg inclines) is cringe-inducing. I feel like the shocks are too soft. Sometimes, there's also what sounds like something big shifting slightly when I come to a stop or take off. I imagine it could be some part of the fiberglass body rubbing/contacting against the backbone as things flex or settle. I can't really isolate or reproduce it well.
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Aug 1, 2017 04:20
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Is the transmission shifting well? Porsches from this era have chronic transmission and motor mount issues but its pretty easy to swap them or check. I dont think motor mounts were very reliable for anything midengined back then but im not sure why. Also a lot of the bushings they used back then will turn hard as rock and slowly become ovals so it can clunk. Performance wise its not a huge thing and it won't likely fail anytime soon so people just kinda live with it because its tedius dirty job. E: yeah you got dorman arms basically the inside of the bushing will sag over time then turn solid as a rock. Its harder than polyurethane bushings after awhile. They suck to change. You basically torch them out and hope to god none gets on you. Or be responsible and take them to a shop and have them pressed out or rig something up. Even if you domt do all that its easy to isolate it as the clunk. EE: sorry lol that rear suspension is not at all what i was thinking it was. I would still look for any big bushings and make sure they arent out of shape. The little ones dont really produce clunks or thuds. DogonCrook fucked around with this message at 05:23 on Aug 1, 2017 |
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Aug 1, 2017 05:09
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It's not the most precise shifting, but it's worked and I haven't noticed any changes. Oh, I wore the Sabelt driving shoes to/from the car show, and that definitely helped with managing the clutch and being steadier on the throttle. Though I noticed I tended to rev the motor pretty while letting the clutch out, like 2-2.5k with quite a bit of slip :/.
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Aug 1, 2017 05:14
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Seat Safety Switch posted:All that rust has to be great for the lawn.
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Aug 1, 2017 07:39
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kimbo305 posted:While I was putting the battery tender on, I double checked the plungers on the Strombergs. They resist before the bottom of the plunger cap touches the carb body, so should be ok. Tried to top off the carbs, since I thought they were just a hair low according to the diagram. Ordered a tiny funnel off Amazon, but even just a dribble of oil took it from 1/4" to over 1/2". I know it's supposed to overflow and correct itself, but it bugs me. Next time, I'll try to use a plastic pipette just to be anal. Applesnots posted:Also, I strongly recomend that you get a spare one of these. http://www.englishparts.com/product...kwd=&origin=pla If that fails you are dead in the water (and they do fail), throw it in the glove box and forget about it. You can replace it with just a philips screwdriver. Ordered and stowed in the trunk. This is gonna be an interesting auction: http://bringatrailer.com/listing/1971-lotus-europa-3/ Even less original, but not a bad motor to have in such a car. "There is a complete new wiring harness in the car that includes 20 fuses verses the original 2." So stereotypical. TBF fuses do weigh something.
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Aug 10, 2017 22:20
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Oh yeah, here's a how woefully flexy the engine lid is:  Most cars at the Triumph show had their engine bays open. I would have done the same, except that I was worried the slight wind would crack/rip some fiberglass.
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Aug 10, 2017 22:32
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I'm the exposed cam gears shoved right into the firewall with the electrical harness dangling nearby. definitely a great engine choice though.
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Aug 10, 2017 22:57
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Despite all the typical swap project worries, it sold for 13k, to a guy I had bid against a few times on BaT, including on my Europa. I drove it today after a weekend of Lemons. I dunno if I should be proud of the Europa or sad for the 280ZX, but the Europa definitely accelerates faster. The Z also used Stromberg carbs, so I got to check that their oil level was ok using my newly gained knowledge. The 4 spd in the Z had a different shift pattern, and I accidentally buzzed reverse in the Europa after I momentarily forgot the gates.
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Aug 16, 2017 21:11
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I have filled a lot of oil in stomberg carbs. Pretty much all i ever did was fill he cap of the quart oil bottle up and pour it in to around the bottom of the threads where the dashpot plunger screws in. Push the plunger back down slowly and wipe off any excess with a cloth.
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Aug 17, 2017 05:56
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Drove it all around Saturday doing errands. The motor died after a weak start leaving the grocery store. Took maybe 7-8 increasingly spaced out start attempts before I got it running again. The guy who complimented me on the car was hopefully out of earshot. It took me closing the choke to finally catch. Maybe I flooded the carbs in the intervening attempts? Other than that incident, been starting and driving just fine.
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Aug 21, 2017 03:41
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If it's anything but a cold start, yeah the choke will flood the engine. You should be able to run errands and never use the choke again after initial startup. Especially in warm weather.
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Aug 21, 2017 05:54
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The choke was probably 1/4 out after 15 min of driving after parking for 30 min. Is it correct to try to be "analog" that way?
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Aug 21, 2017 15:28
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kimbo305 posted:The choke was probably 1/4 out after 15 min of driving after parking for 30 min. Is it correct to try to be "analog" that way? Depends on the car. If it was driving better with it slightly on instead of all the way off, then yeah it's correct. My choke experience across various motors has ranged from "fine tune the choke position as I drive for the first 10-15 mins until the thermostat opens up" to "use the choke just to get it started, then turn it off once it's able to idle on its own" to "lol choke? just hit the accelerator pump and crank it"
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Aug 21, 2017 19:10
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Thanks for the great thread Kimbo305 I learn so much from these. Brings back memories of my old man's 1960 MGA I dd'd for a couple summers. It had some typical British/old car "quirks": positive ground system with dual 6v batteries (one of which melted the plastic rear window of the soft top), it was a LHD car so the accelerator pedal linkage ran over to the right side inside the cabin (the passenger could "accidentally" step on the gas), and a foot operated high/low beam switch. The doors opened with pull cables. It had a trunk release behind the driver's seat, so this was definitely a thing on some cars back then. I remember it originally had dual Zenith-Stromberg sidedraft SU carbs that gave my dad fits so he replaced them with a single 2 barrel downdraft Weber kit. After the carb swap it was a surprisingly reliable car and did not leave me stranded.
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Aug 21, 2017 23:19
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Somebody linked the top 10 car animes in another thread, and turns out one of the "dumb cars" the cops drive in exDriver is a Europa. I guess I can finally bump that up on my to-watch list.Gorson posted:it was a LHD car so the accelerator pedal linkage ran over to the right side inside the cabin (the passenger could "accidentally" step on the gas quote:I remember it originally had dual Zenith-Stromberg sidedraft SU carbs that gave my dad fits so he replaced them with a single 2 barrel downdraft Weber kit. After the carb swap it was a surprisingly reliable car and did not leave me stranded. A week ago, I would have cast doubt on the carbs being that big a stranding headache, but now that attitude is slightly checked.
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Aug 22, 2017 20:39
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kimbo305 posted:Somebody linked the top 10 car animes in another thread, and turns out one of the "dumb cars" the cops drive in exDriver is a Europa. I guess I can finally bump that up on my to-watch list.
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Aug 22, 2017 22:55
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kimbo305 posted:
Eh, Its british cars. I keep enough tools and spare parts in the trunk that I could fix drat near any problem on the side of the road. Might want to check the gap on your points (correct gap and clean) if you are having hard starting, easier than pulling apart the carb. I keep a spare set of points and condenser in the trunk as well, because british cars.
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Aug 23, 2017 05:10
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kimbo305 posted:A week ago, I would have cast doubt on the carbs being that big a stranding headache, but now that attitude is slightly checked. So the biggest problem is repros suck and old ones can't be repaired by greybeards. A good carb set up properly runs fine. E: and at least you have a common carb so you might find greybeards or good repros - you'd have less chance with a non weber Euro, or any Japanese carb. Fo3 fucked around with this message at 15:50 on Aug 23, 2017 |
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Aug 23, 2017 15:46
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Applesnots posted:Eh, Its british cars. I keep enough tools and spare parts in the trunk that I could fix drat near any problem on the side of the road. Might want to check the gap on your points (correct gap and clean) if you are having hard starting, easier than pulling apart the carb. I keep a spare set of points and condenser in the trunk as well, because british cars. The PO put on a pertronix ignition, so it's less maintenance than the original distributor. Though not maintenance free, iirc. Fo3 posted:Carbs aren't that bad. The main problem is every carb around these days is either very old and worn, (or some cheap reproduction), and not been tuned/jetted by some carb wizard- because they aren't around anymore. The trackside tuning my teammate did on our Lemons 280ZX's Strombergs has me hopeful that I can make him tune mine one of these times I go over. Though in the race car's case, that was just taking it from black smoke rich to no smoke and still sounds healthy.
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Aug 23, 2017 16:18
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kimbo305 posted:The PO put on a pertronix ignition, so it's less maintenance than the original distributor. Though not maintenance free, iirc. If you havent already check that the coil is the right for some reason its pretty common for people not to switch and you will have a weak spark. Both my cars the previous owner didnt switch for some reason. Even then electrical systems were weak as hell back then the better sytems have more demand they get a little more finicky or easier to tax. Plus its like 40+ year old wire. Some cars have weird poo poo were they drop te voltage to the coil through a ballast resistor after it starts so it goes from 12v down to 9v amd you have to bypass that if its in the system or its a weak spark. I dont think its either of those things but id look into it. Carbs are already kind of a wildcard so you have to be on top of all the other stuff and make sure its up to spec. Itll never run like a fuel injected car or be as consistent its just the nature of the beast.
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Aug 24, 2017 01:35
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Yeah, older ignitions were on lower volts, not just for fun but it extended life on the points/breakers. When upgrading to electronic dizzy you need to a) replace the 7-9V coils with 12V ones, b) remove the ballast resistors and rewire the coils. As far as carb fuckery, the latest coldwar motors YT vid has a good ep just out. My jaw dropped when he brought out the box of vintage carb rebuild kits. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9WmNx4-_eI
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Aug 24, 2017 17:23
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I asked about 12V when I first checked out the car, and the PO said the car was 12V stock, at least. Not sure if there're other issues from running Pertronix against the factory alternator.
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Aug 24, 2017 18:26
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You misunderstand. All 12V cars with points ignition distributors dropped the voltage to the ignition coils to prolong the life of the breakers/points. The car is 12V, but the ignition sees only ~7V due to ballast resistors dropping the volts. I doubt it's a problem as most people convert it to 12V when adding electronic ignition (by removing the resistors and wiring it straight to 12v), I'm just explaining what dogoncrook meant and could happen if the coils weren't also upgraded to 12v when upgrading the dizzy E: I'm talking plural because I'm used to doing this conversion on rotaries. But usually only one set of contact point, coil and ballast resistor of course. Fo3 fucked around with this message at 18:42 on Aug 24, 2017 |
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Aug 24, 2017 18:36
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Fo3 posted:You misunderstand. All 12V cars with points ignition distributors dropped the voltage to the ignition coils to prolong the life of the breakers/points. The car is 12V, but the ignition sees only ~7V due to ballast resistors dropping the volts. Oh ok, that just the ignition system is on a lower voltage. I'll have to check if the coil was changed, but I think it was. The PO's upgrades were all pretty well thought out, and generally known to the Europa community. I have yet to join the europa yahoo group, which apparently is the best resource. It just seems so astoundingly old school.
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Aug 24, 2017 18:39
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kimbo305 posted:Oh ok, that just the ignition system is on a lower voltage. I'll have to check if the coil was changed, but I think it was. The PO's upgrades were all pretty well thought out, and generally known to the Europa community. I have yet to join the europa yahoo group, which apparently is the best resource. It just seems so astoundingly old school. Yeah i would just check that the coil gets the full 12 after the car has been running for 2 or 3 minutes. If the voltage drops to 9 or 7 you'll have to track it down. Ive just noticed alot of people leave the old stuff in. Previous owner on both my cars didnt do it and it comes up over and over again on forums. Its one of those things were they dont know what they are missing and it still works so you may never notice its wrong if you dont look for it. Maybe your coils die suspiciously early but other than that itll run mostly fine.
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Aug 24, 2017 21:00
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You might also check if you have a Pertronix 1 or 2. The 2 might expect a lower impedance coil. ALSO, many of the Pertronix units have a low voltage cutout. I.E. If the voltage at the unit drops below something like 8 volts, the unit cuts off and you get NONE spark. This is especially apparent when you leave the stock ballast resistor / resistor wire and your battery is just the tiniest bit low.
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Aug 25, 2017 03:04
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I'll try to check it out this weekend. While we're on the ignition front, I've noted a few times, once at least for a couple of seconds, that the motor keeps sparking and running after I key off the car. Coil/ignition the culprit?
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Aug 25, 2017 22:37
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There are some engines that will do that, i know of a briggs that never needed its sparkplug to be powered. But that said that's something you want to get to the bottom of real quick. Id pull all your spark plugs now and see whats going on and google if this is a design quirk. You shouldn't be getting combustion without spark. If theres too much heat the spark plugs will probably show it. E: there are some weird electrical shenanigans that will cause this too apparently do you have a one wire alt? E2: i guess just disconnect the ignition wire while running if it still happens its an issue, if it dies its an electrical gremlin. DogonCrook fucked around with this message at 00:26 on Aug 26, 2017 |
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Aug 26, 2017 00:20
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kimbo305 posted:I'll try to check it out this weekend. Dieseling. Up your octane. What are you using now? You have a relatively high compression engine. And the higher the octane the less likely for the fuel to detonate under compression alone (It will do this with no spark). Up your octane and you should be fine. Applesnots fucked around with this message at 05:58 on Aug 26, 2017 |
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Aug 26, 2017 05:51
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Yeah, dieseling, fuel just being sucked in through the carbs and just igniting due to heat. It's not sparking, just heat, fuel, compression. In the 1980s many OEM carbs added a fuel cut solenoid to the idle circuit help with this ( and a heap of emissions vac solenoids etc), but old school or aftermarket carbs like yours or weber, holley etc aren't going to have that. Could be carbon build up in the engine causing hot spots, maybe a cleaner type product can be used? Otherwise make sure your engine isn't running rich on idle or change fuel as suggested?
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Aug 26, 2017 08:12
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Apparently the msd 6al and some old models can have runon issues and some alts do to. I hadnt heard the term runon since i was a kid though now that i think about it and i had totally forgotten it was a thing. They really didnt give a gently caress in the 70's, i mean the laws thay govern electricity were well known by then but they didnt give drat about fuses and diodes and building proper ciruits and whatnot. Id pull the wire to make sure its not spark causing it.
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Aug 26, 2017 19:32
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It was fairly common back in the day to have an anti-dieseling solenoid, that would shut off the fuel when the ignition was off.
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Aug 26, 2017 19:44
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Deteriorata posted:It was fairly common back in the day to have an anti-dieseling solenoid, that would shut off the fuel when the ignition was off. But you'd have enough in the carbs to fuel it for a while, no? drat, I really want to dig into the car now but am not home.
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Aug 26, 2017 20:06
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Also if you have electric fans with no relay or stuck relay, apparently that will feed enough juice back in to the ignition to fire while they wind down.
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Aug 26, 2017 20:31
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Aircooled Volkswagens had an anti-dieseling solenoid (aka idle cutoff valve), the round thing sticking out at the base of the carb. It's positioned so it can stop the flow of fuel at the last point available.
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Aug 26, 2017 21:17
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I think the solenoids on SUs operate slightly differently, cutting off the air bleed into the float chamber to stop the venturi effect being able to draw fuel through. Might not be correct on that, mind.
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Aug 26, 2017 21:27
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DogonCrook posted:Apparently the msd 6al and some old models can have runon issues and some alts do to. I hadnt heard the term runon since i was a kid though now that i think about it and i had totally forgotten it was a thing. They really didnt give a gently caress in the 70's, i mean the laws thay govern electricity were well known by then but they didnt give drat about fuses and diodes and building proper ciruits and whatnot. Id pull the wire to make sure its not spark causing it. Huh. I've had what I thought was occasional dieseling, across a couple different motors in the same car, without an apparent temperature dependence, and I do use a 6al... I wonder if that's what's up. Good to know. In fact, I think the distributor, ignition box, and fuel pump are the only shared components between the two.
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Aug 26, 2017 22:56
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Raluek posted:Huh. I've had what I thought was occasional dieseling, across a couple different motors in the same car, without an apparent temperature dependence, and I do use a 6al... I wonder if that's what's up. Good to know. In fact, I think the distributor, ignition box, and fuel pump are the only shared components between the two. Yeah if you google it they needed a diode off the alt field or off the voltage regulator. Its sounsd like pulling fld 2 off the alt and then killing it will tell you if thats it.
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Aug 27, 2017 00:23
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kimbo305 posted:But you'd have enough in the carbs to fuel it for a while, no? drat, I really want to dig into the car now but am not home. There's not enough vacuum to pull fuel through the main jets as the throttle butterfly valve is shut(or pretty much) on idle, the fuel cut is just on the idle bypass/idle jet/fuel circuit. The solenoid just has to block one small internal jet/path/tube usually. I didn't even know that su or z/s carbs had them. E: google led me to a system on them which just opens the vac chamber to air, reducing vacuum. It was some sort of very late model though with emissions control. Fo3 fucked around with this message at 05:50 on Aug 27, 2017 |
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Aug 27, 2017 05:20
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