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Ringo Roadagain posted:I mean, I could be wrong, but this doesn’t seem like something to get worked up about. During their entire partnership with tjpw how many Japanese wrestlers did they poach? 1 after 4 years. Stardom itself has poached more wrestlers from other smaller Japanese woman’s promotions than that during the same time. The difference between that is Stardom weren't partners with these promotions. If AEW signed Giulia at the start of the year instead of WWE, I wouldn't mind because AEW and Stardom weren't partners then. I don't think you should partner with someone, talk about how great your partnership is, then take their talent. I'm quite soured on the NJPW/AEW relationship.
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Apr 20, 2024 19:57
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the performers are capable consenting adults big dog, lets table the white knight routine. you dont know how anyone actually involved feels until they say something about it, so having sour grapes over something that is none of your business is probably a waste of time and pretty embarrassing to do in a public forum
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Apr 20, 2024 20:07
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Stall_19 posted:The difference between that is Stardom weren't partners with these promotions. If AEW signed Giulia at the start of the year instead of WWE, I wouldn't mind because AEW and Stardom weren't partners then. I don't think you should partner with someone, talk about how great your partnership is, then take their talent. I'm quite soured on the NJPW/AEW relationship. So your logic is that AEW shouldn't have gone after Okada or Osprey and just let them go to WWE because they have a working relationship with NJPW?
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Apr 20, 2024 20:16
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People are always going to get salty about larger promotions signing wrestlers. It was a forum bit for years to be like "hope you like standing around in catering" when the wwe signed anyone from a smaller promotion. Again we all understand capitalism and market forces at play but it's interesting how much this place has changed on what would essentially be warehousing talent based on the amount of time the existing women get in aew. I quite literally criticised the potential for bushiroad to do this to Diana too like 15 posts ago and bushiroad haven't done anything untoward there yet. It should just be noted they may intend to. It's possible to be morally consistent but also understand the market forces driving this. If stardom signs Nanami like the moment she's available post being 18 I'd think that was poor form but I'd understand why it happened It just sucks that alternatives are becoming less viable
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Apr 20, 2024 20:29
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Feel like back in the day people were pretty positive when an Indy guy would get signed by the fed. Danielson, Claudio, Seth, and Mox at least.
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Apr 20, 2024 20:34
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duckdealer posted:Surely you realize people are disagreeing (or acting on the defence as you put it) due to the over the top nature of the claims? I don't think many people have trouble understanding wanting a favourite wrestler to be signed with one promotion versus another. Surely you realise that people being hyperbolic on the internet isn't new?
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Apr 20, 2024 20:37
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Ringo Roadagain posted:Feel like back in the day people were pretty positive when an Indy guy would get signed by the fed. Danielson, Claudio, Seth, and Mox at least. It's practically became a meme here to say someone was retired when they signed with the wwe And I suppose this is the rub. It's morally good and just for the larger promotion to pick off talent when I personally watch the bigger promotion. The 4 names you mentioned signed with wwe in like 2009 through to 2011. This is pre bushiroad njpw even.
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Apr 20, 2024 20:40
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Wild that all this talk of AEW poaching and warehousing talent came from Kenny saying he'd like to get a schedule of appearances for AZM, something New Japan has done with multiple AEW wrestlers in the past and is doing with an AEW wrestler right now.
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Apr 20, 2024 20:40
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Lamuella posted:Wild that all this talk of AEW poaching and warehousing talent came from Kenny saying he'd like to get a schedule of appearances for AZM, something New Japan has done with multiple AEW wrestlers in the past and is doing with an AEW wrestler right now. It’s wild
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Apr 20, 2024 20:42
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forkboy84 posted:Surely you realise that people being hyperbolic on the internet isn't new? Bizarre response, but I will say I think you contribute a lot of positive stuff to this forum.
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Apr 20, 2024 20:47
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PaybackJack posted:So your logic is that AEW shouldn't have gone after Okada or Osprey and just let them go to WWE because they have a working relationship with NJPW? Yes. AEW's roster is so packed with talent that it's to the point of bloat. AEW doesn't need either. And if you're going after them, don't say bullshit like "keeping them in the family" like you're doing NJPW a favor. Also I'm not convinced that Okada would have gone to WWE. From Stardom's perspective, I see it like this, you can't help that AEW has much more money available and can massively out bid them, just don't be friends with them. That's all I want. Just stay away from them. Stall_19 fucked around with this message at 21:03 on Apr 20, 2024 |
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Apr 20, 2024 20:59
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I genuinely don’t get the point you are trying to make.
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Apr 20, 2024 21:04
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Stardom talent could leave for AEW whether the companies have a working relationship or not though ? Better not let the wrestlers see there are alternatives out there ?
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Apr 20, 2024 21:05
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apophenium posted:Stardom talent could leave for AEW whether the companies have a working relationship or not though ? Better not let the wrestlers see there are alternatives out there ? Not for Stardom. You're not a minor league farm team for them. You're a business yourself. All this relationship does is make it more likely people leave. They can't help AEW can offer much more than Stardom but all I'm saying is don't make it easier for AEW to take talent from you. Don't send them talent so they can get a preview of the goods so to day. Just stay away like they've been doing. That's all I want
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Apr 20, 2024 21:16
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Stall_19 posted:Not for Stardom. You're not a minor league farm team for them. You're a business yourself. All this relationship does is make it more likely people leave. This is dumb
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Apr 20, 2024 21:21
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Speaking of underhanded poaching tactics.... https://twitter.com/Peps_Wrestling/status/1781643751615529292?t=f7y91rUWffwNC35ZyWhAcw&s=19
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Apr 20, 2024 21:22
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"underhanded poaching techniques" remains a loving batshit way to describe saying that you want to see a wrestler get more overseas dates.
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Apr 20, 2024 21:30
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Stall_19 posted:Yes. AEW's roster is so packed with talent that it's to the point of bloat. AEW doesn't need either. And if you're going after them, don't say bullshit like "keeping them in the family" like you're doing NJPW a favor. Also I'm not convinced that Okada would have gone to WWE. Reminder that this guy has no problems with Rossy calling Marigold a ranch for WWE lmao.
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Apr 20, 2024 21:30
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PlasticAutomaton posted:Reminder that this guy has no problems with Rossy calling Marigold a ranch for WWE lmao. I don't because I don't care if Marigold fails. I rather like Stardom so I'd like to see it succeed.
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Apr 20, 2024 21:35
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you're treating these women as if they're infantile and incapable of making their own career decisions and its really loving weird
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Apr 20, 2024 21:38
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Yeah I've been trying to figure out how to phrase it but the weird infantilzation going on in this conversation sucks a lot and I think it's dragged on long enough. Please stop posting like this.
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Apr 20, 2024 21:44
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Joey McChrist posted:you're treating these women as if they're infantile and incapable of making their own career decisions and its really loving weird I'm not saying anything about what the women choose. My main point is that I don't want Stardom to partner with AEW because it's going to be a one-sided partnership that only benefits AEW, making it easy for them to sign Stardom talent. That's it. AEW can sign whoever they want, just don't be friends with them.
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Apr 20, 2024 21:53
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i hope AEW destorys stardom to spite you!!! i wouldn't care because i am only here to watch tjpw, evil laugh, evil laugh
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Apr 20, 2024 21:54
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Stall_19 posted:I'm not saying anything about what the women choose. My main point is that I don't want Stardom to partner with AEW because it's going to be a one-sided partnership that only benefits AEW, making it easy for them to sign Stardom talent. That's it. AEW can sign whoever they want, just don't be friends with them. Having stardom talent wrestle on a show with a large audience seems like a plus. I mean aew normally advertises when a wrestler is from an another promotion, right? Maybe people will like what they see and sign up for world.
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Apr 20, 2024 22:01
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the argument is just 'us vs them' frustration being presented as something else. more people and more important people left stardom without anything related to this newer 'friendship problem'. the only difference is stardom getting some minor advertising and not coming across like a prison where everyone working there is an owned product
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Apr 20, 2024 22:05
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Lamuella posted:Wild that all this talk of AEW poaching and warehousing talent came from Kenny saying he'd like to get a schedule of appearances for AZM, something New Japan has done with multiple AEW wrestlers in the past and is doing with an AEW wrestler right now. And I don't see how wanting a schedule is a bad thing. One of the big complaints I see is that whenever joshi visit the the US (mainly AEW), they are just given a match with no buildup or no payoff, just a one and done and it's hard to garner larger interest from that... well how are you supposed to build a storyline around a wrestler if you have no idea when they'll be able to come out so that you can create a storyline and start getting their paperwork in order? Visa issues have been biting AEW since before the pandemic, and has been biting them with TJPW in both directions ever since (Yuka, Willow, and Abadon come to mind), and I don't see it being any different for Stardom. Knowing ahead of time when someone is showing up gives them the opportunity to get everything sorted so they can announce an appearance or pivot and not say anything at all. They've already done this experiment with Maki's first AEW appearance where they said nothing and Maki didn't say anything about it either (although people figured it out because Kamiyu made a reference to it on her Twitter), because they weren't sure if they could make it happen until it happened.
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Apr 20, 2024 22:06
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I'm so curious if this "Tony is afraid of women" bit is really "David Zaslov hates women" in reality because Tony has had absolutely no problem showcasing multiple women in ROH, hell last ppv there were 12 women on the show across 4 matches. the ppv before that there were three, with Athena/Starkz main eventing
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Apr 20, 2024 22:39
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Lamuella posted:Wild that all this talk of AEW poaching and warehousing talent came from Kenny saying he'd like to get a schedule of appearances for AZM, something New Japan has done with multiple AEW wrestlers in the past and is doing with an AEW wrestler right now. To be fair it didn't start there and has been an unrealized forum anxiety for a bit
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Apr 20, 2024 22:44
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Tampa Bae posted:I'm so curious if this "Tony is afraid of women" bit is really "David Zaslov hates women" in reality because Tony has had absolutely no problem showcasing multiple women in ROH, hell last ppv there were 12 women on the show across 4 matches. the ppv before that there were three, with Athena/Starkz main eventing It is. Tony books AEW's women with what draws on US TV which is not having women on TV because US wrestling fans hate women. When he's not held back by needing to draw in the US you see what he actually thinks.
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Apr 20, 2024 22:44
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I just want Stardom World to take my money
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Apr 20, 2024 23:25
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Erin M. Fiasco posted:Yeah I've been trying to figure out how to phrase it but the weird infantilzation going on in this conversation sucks a lot and I think it's dragged on long enough. Please stop posting like this. Sorry, the idea it's infantilization is bollocks. You get the same thing from fans of Japanese male wrestling. It's not about infantilising the wrestlers involved, it's simply "I like this person, this person gets to wrestle a lot for company A, which I already watch, whereas if they go to company B then I will see them less because company B already has a stacked roster." It's being selfish, certainly, but it's not taking agency away from the wrestlers, male or female. I have said repeatedly that I understand why the wrestlers would want to take US bookings. It's the same thing that happened in the mid '90s in Mexico when the Peso cratered, first they stopped being able to bring in as much foreign talent & then eventually an exodus of talent to the US. La Parka & Super Calo & Silver King & what have you makes perfect sense for them from a financial security perspective. But Silver King wrestling in CMLL in a Cibernetico at the 41st Anniversary of Arena Mexico is way more exciting to me as a fan than seeing him jobbing to Disco Inferno is under 5 minutes of Saturday Night. Ringo Roadagain posted:Having stardom talent wrestle on a show with a large audience seems like a plus. I mean aew normally advertises when a wrestler is from an another promotion, right? Maybe people will like what they see and sign up for world. WWF would say this match with Roddy Piper was from Mid Atlantic or Hulk Hogan is from AWA. It doesn't really matter when 6 months later Roddy Piper is no longer wrestling in the Greensboro Coliseum because he's signed with the McMahon machine. Like, I get that Tony Khan isn't Vince McMahon but his obligation is to his own company first of all. And I, as a fan, am not particularly invested in AEW & even less so in their farm league ROH. And I only have X hours in the day & I'd much rather watch AZM in Stardom where she will get more time & her matches won't be cut up with commercial breaks & she'll only appear infrequently. And also won't feature annoying "this is awesome" chants after someone does 1 armdrag, but that's just me griping. I dunno, how many people are we really expecting to sign up for Stardom World from watching AZM wrestle? Especially bearing in mind that apparently people on here who want to sign up for it aren't even able to! Stall_19 posted:I'm not saying anything about what the women choose. My main point is that I don't want Stardom to partner with AEW because it's going to be a one-sided partnership that only benefits AEW, making it easy for them to sign Stardom talent. That's it. AEW can sign whoever they want, just don't be friends with them. Arguably it helps Stardom because it lets them retain talent they might not be able to afford without offering them outside dates, either just because they want the experience of wrestling in front of different crowds or because of the money or whatever combination of those & other reasons.
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Apr 20, 2024 23:27
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forkboy84 posted:WWF would say this match with Roddy Piper was from Mid Atlantic or Hulk Hogan is from AWA. It doesn't really matter when 6 months later Roddy Piper is no longer wrestling in the Greensboro Coliseum because he's signed with the McMahon machine. Like, I get that Tony Khan isn't Vince McMahon but his obligation is to his own company first of all. And I, as a fan, am not particularly invested in AEW & even less so in their farm league ROH. And I only have X hours in the day & I'd much rather watch AZM in Stardom where she will get more time & her matches won't be cut up with commercial breaks & she'll only appear infrequently. And also won't feature annoying "this is awesome" chants after someone does 1 armdrag, but that's just me griping.
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Apr 20, 2024 23:35
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Snooze Cruise posted:i hope AEW destorys stardom to spite you!!! i wouldn't care because i am only here to watch tjpw, evil laugh, evil laugh Well you probably shouldn't hope that because br would just raid promotions they are bigger than to offset the losses Unless cyberagent are planning on spending some money on the wrestlers they have (they aren't).
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Apr 20, 2024 23:39
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Burn Down Canberra posted:Well you probably shouldn't hope that because br would just raid promotions they are bigger than to offset the losses ??? OK
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Apr 20, 2024 23:41
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Snooze Cruise posted:??? I'm actually curious how this thread would respond if rossy had taken more stardom talent and bushiroad had responded by ripping the mainevent out of tjpw like rossy did with actwres. Would there be equivalent salt to how stall is posting? The reality is that until all the other bushiroad departments sink bushiroad sports with their incompetence they are just more willing to spend on wrestling than everyone else in japan. Tjpw is doing its literal best ever business and stardom is about 5 times the size of them. So any damage aew does to stardom will just flow onto smaller promotions.
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Apr 20, 2024 23:47
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Burn Down Canberra posted:I'm actually curious how this thread would respond if rossy had taken more stardom talent and bushiroad had responded by ripping the mainevent out of tjpw like rossy did with actwres. Would there be equivalent salt to how stall is posting? tjpw's entire thing is having the safest, most conservative, slowest-paced booking imaginable so i for one would be pretty ok with this. it took them like two years too long to belt up miu, maybe losing shoko/miyu/mizuki would force them to start putting their new talents in upper midcard slots at least. give bird girl the international belt or something
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Apr 20, 2024 23:53
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TJPW has already lost a lot of major talent that went on to do great else where due to conservative booking, they're not going to change
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Apr 21, 2024 00:04
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For reference here's a complete list of the wrestlers that AEW have "ripped out of" Stardom: I hope that was informative.
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Apr 21, 2024 00:28
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Anyone plan on following Marigold? Despite not liking the way this came together, (I'm sure if I was an Actwres Girl'z fan I'd want Rossy head on a pike) the fact it's on Wrestle Universe means I'll probably give it a shot.
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Apr 21, 2024 00:35
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It's nice that AEW fans have discovered the thread and I hope they stick around, though maybe with slightly less telling people how to feel about partnerships involving companies they enjoy watching.Lamuella posted:For reference here's a complete list of the wrestlers that AEW have "ripped out of" Stardom: Alright, you're just being silly now. Thing hasn't happened yet ≠ Thing will never happen. Especially when it has happened with other partner promotions. No poo poo, the partnership has only just begun. AEW didn't sign Takeshita on his first tour either. Ringo Roadagain posted:first paragraph, that’s not really comparable at all. Why not? Showing your fans a wrestler before they sign with you is in fact the same thing. Anyway, to actually talk about women's wrestling, sounds like Evolution are going to be running 2 shows a month going forward from May. So that's cool.
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Apr 21, 2024 00:49
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