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man incapable of basic mathematics, caping for a political philosophy that has lost literally all power over the last eight years, accuses someone else of being stupid
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Jul 5, 2017 20:16
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Condiv posted:problem is i don't think there's a lesser evil in this case. voting for lovely centrists helps make sure the left stays weak (cause centrists use their power for that), and help make sure we get even more extreme right-wingers next time. fascists like trump are only possible cause obama was so lovely and let the banks prey upon the poor Well, you're wrong, frankly. Clinton might have been a lovely centrist, but a lovely centrist is a better choice than a dementia-riddled narcissistic pissbaby. If you think Obama's too centrist then sure, maybe voting third party is the way to go - McCain or Romney could end up being bad Presidents, but they're not going to gently caress everything up. Clinton vs. Trump? Clinton could have promised to eat a living baby every single day of her term and she'd still deserve the vote for doing less damage than Trump promised to do; the only reason we've so far avoided complete catastrophe is that the Trump administration's vicious evil is only outweighed by their startling incompetence. "Lesser evil" is fine when it's two flawed candidates; when it's one flawed candidate and one complete loving monster, a racist sexual abuser who campaigns on xenophobia, welcomes support from the Klan, and appoints a millenarian white supremacist to WH Chief Strategist, it's another matter.
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Jul 5, 2017 20:33
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asdf32 posted:So you're filled with dumb expectations because single payer was never close. You're like the guy who'se getting fed up with republicans and is vowing to vote libertarian next time because Trump didn't immediately and completely repeal Obamacare and build a wall (even though only an idiot expected those things to actually happen). more like i expected the dems not to attack singlepayer as ultimately unattainable. not close is one thing. saying it'll never happen and bernie wants to rip away people's insurance so he can try to pass it is another. and since the democrats are not interested in moving left ever, i'm not interested in voting for the centrist ones that form the establishment. Mister Adequate posted:Well, you're wrong, frankly. Clinton might have been a lovely centrist, but a lovely centrist is a better choice than a dementia-riddled narcissistic pissbaby. If you think Obama's too centrist then sure, maybe voting third party is the way to go - McCain or Romney could end up being bad Presidents, but they're not going to gently caress everything up. Clinton vs. Trump? Clinton could have promised to eat a living baby every single day of her term and she'd still deserve the vote for doing less damage than Trump promised to do; the only reason we've so far avoided complete catastrophe is that the Trump administration's vicious evil is only outweighed by their startling incompetence. "Lesser evil" is fine when it's two flawed candidates; when it's one flawed candidate and one complete loving monster, a racist sexual abuser who campaigns on xenophobia, welcomes support from the Klan, and appoints a millenarian white supremacist to WH Chief Strategist, it's another matter. except that it's just kicking the can down the road. trump is a symptom of the democrats and the republicans both being poo poo, and if we don't improve the party we'll see worse than him. voting for centrists that have literally no clue what to do is not helping things in the least. it's better to vote for leftists only to help leftists seize control of the party
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Jul 5, 2017 21:38
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Condiv posted:that's the plan. vote dsa endorsed, or ourrevolution endorsed dems, or basically dems that i can stomach, and don't vote otherwise. Then why start this idiotic thread? Oh because you are an attention whore.
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Jul 5, 2017 22:20
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It's a bit disingenuous to start a thread asking a question you already know the answer to. But i guess you wouldnt get any bites asking "How could i ethically vote under capitalism?"
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Jul 5, 2017 22:35
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Despera posted:It's a bit disingenuous to start a thread asking a question you already know the answer to. But i guess you wouldnt get any bites asking "How could i ethically vote under capitalism?" it's no more disingenuous than an article that has a question as a title. dunno why that's ruined your day
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Jul 5, 2017 23:40
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Condiv posted:that's the plan. vote dsa endorsed, or ourrevolution endorsed dems, or basically dems that i can stomach, and don't vote otherwise. Why stop there, why not do more to help the republicans take power and enact their agenda?
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Jul 5, 2017 23:44
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hakimashou posted:Why stop there, why not do more to help the republicans take power and enact their agenda? if i wanted to vote republican i'd vote republican. not gonna vote for stupid poo poo like this though: https://twitter.com/derekwillis/status/882669894055100416
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Jul 5, 2017 23:53
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That sign is enough for you to want to help the republicans take power and enact their agenda?
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Jul 6, 2017 00:03
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hakimashou posted:That sign is enough for you to want to help the republicans take power and enact their agenda? i don't wan't the republicans to take power. which is why i want the democrats to stop acting like republicans, which is why i won't vote for dems who act like republicans. you guys are gonna be saying people should vote for zuckerberg in 2020 and i will definitely never vote for that little monster. we need good dems, and we need dems who have direction, not idiot leaders who can only campaign on "we're not republicans!"
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Jul 6, 2017 00:06
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"well one guy will kill a hundred people and the other will kill ten thousand people, so really both of them are exactly the same and there's no point in me leaving my parents basement to involve myself with the outside world in any way"
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Jul 6, 2017 00:07
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Main Paineframe posted:"well one guy will kill a hundred people and the other will kill ten thousand people, so really both of them are exactly the same and there's no point in me leaving my parents basement to involve myself with the outside world in any way" yeah they're both killers. why should i vote for them?
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Jul 6, 2017 00:09
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hakimashou posted:That sign is enough for you to want to help the republicans take power and enact their agenda? He wants an excuse to do nothing ever and feel superior while doing it.
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Jul 6, 2017 00:09
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Condiv posted:yeah they're both killers. why should i vote for them? Nine thousand people?
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Jul 6, 2017 00:10
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Condiv posted:i don't wan't the republicans to take power. which is why i want the democrats to stop acting like republicans, which is why i won't vote for dems who act like republicans. you guys are gonna be saying people should vote for zuckerberg in 2020 and i will definitely never vote for that little monster. If you don't vote for the democrat in a race you're helping the republicans. People like you are why Donald trump is president.
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Jul 6, 2017 00:11
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Ratoslov posted:Nine thousand people? i think at the point where we're literally voting for murderer politicians we can cut the lesser evil crap and choose not to indulge in that farce.
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Jul 6, 2017 00:14
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Main Paineframe posted:"well one guy will kill a hundred people and the other will kill ten thousand people, so really both of them are exactly the same and there's no point in me leaving my parents basement to involve myself with the outside world in any way"
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Jul 6, 2017 00:14
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hakimashou posted:If you don't vote for the democrat in a race you're helping the republicans. it's doubtful i'm the reason why trump is president. also, i'm not helping republicans by not voting for democrats. the democrats don't own my vote, and if they want it they can run non-poo poo tier candidates. the dsa and ourrevolution is already doing a good job. if the dems can learn from keith ellison they'll be able to win back my vote
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Jul 6, 2017 00:16
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newsflash: the dems are gonna run more poo poo tier candidates and lose spectacularly https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=0&threadid=3824498&perpage=40&pagenumber=171#post474074031
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Jul 6, 2017 00:22
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Condiv posted:also, i'm not helping republicans by not voting for democrats. yes you are
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Jul 6, 2017 00:35
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stone cold posted:yes you are nah. under that logic i'm also helping democrats by not voting republican. it's silliness
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Jul 6, 2017 00:36
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it's amazing though that you guys wail and gnash your teeth so much when i suggest that there might be some democrats not worth voting for. such as zuckerberg, and his obvious upcoming candidacy
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Jul 6, 2017 00:39
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Condiv posted:it's amazing though that you guys wail and gnash your teeth so much when i suggest that there might be some democrats not worth voting for. such as zuckerberg, and his obvious upcoming candidacy EDIT: For some reason I read your post as endorsing Zuck. N/m.
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Jul 6, 2017 00:47
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edit:n/m
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Jul 6, 2017 00:49
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Condiv posted:i think at the point where we're literally voting for murderer politicians we can cut the lesser evil crap and choose not to indulge in that farce. The phrase murder is meaningless here - every choice that's ever existed in politics has had life and death consequences.
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Jul 6, 2017 00:56
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Lesser-Evilism has gotten us to the point where the lesser evil is basically the same as the greater evil from 30 years ago, it's the same thing but in slow motion.
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Jul 6, 2017 00:56
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Not true, socially we've made a lot of progress, gay rights being the most obvious example.
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Jul 6, 2017 00:59
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Condiv posted:except that it's just kicking the can down the road. trump is a symptom of the democrats and the republicans both being poo poo, and if we don't improve the party we'll see worse than him. voting for centrists that have literally no clue what to do is not helping things in the least. it's better to vote for leftists only to help leftists seize control of the party Even if it is kicking the can down the road, it's a lot easier to change course and make improvements with a centrist in power than a near-fascist who is actively eroding the institutions of the country's government and civic functioning. It's not as easy to accept accelerationism when you're getting actively hosed over by it. But yeah people like you are why Trump won, at least in part - the GOP hated the guy but they sucked it up when he became their candidate and went and voted for him. Meanwhile, how many people on the left were wringing their hands over whether they could really stand to vote for Hillary Clinton, and some didn't. That happens every goddamn time, and it's why Obama's ability to sell "Hope and change" was so important, because it got a shitload of Democrats out to the ballot box who would stay home with other candidates, even ones like HRC who had more progressive policies.
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Jul 6, 2017 01:01
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Mister Adequate posted:Even if it is kicking the can down the road, it's a lot easier to change course and make improvements with a centrist in power than a near-fascist who is actively eroding the institutions of the country's government and civic functioning. It's not as easy to accept accelerationism when you're getting actively hosed over by it. the left sucked it up too. last i checked, around 95% of bernie supporters voted for clinton. hillary just didn't pull in enough of anyone else. cause she didn't have a platform worth a drat and she was basically running as 8 more years. it was her election to lose and she lost it by her own actions.
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Jul 6, 2017 01:05
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Condiv posted:yeah they're both killers. why should i vote for them? voting is pointless, therefore everything is pointless and you can feel completely morally justified in spending the next four years locked in your bedroom screaming at your mom to buy you more hot pockets just like the last four years
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Jul 6, 2017 01:29
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Condiv posted:it's doubtful i'm the reason why trump is president. also, i'm not helping republicans by not voting for democrats. the democrats don't own my vote, and if they want it they can run non-poo poo tier candidates. Yes you are, you are actively helping the republicans enact their agenda by not voting for democrats, you're almost as bad as someone who votes for republicans. If you were completely indifferent to politics it wouldn't matter, but if you care about the outcome at all, then you're on the hook. Don't kid yourself, people like you are why donald trump is president, people who didn't do the right thing in november. I'm sure they all have some bullshit story. You have a moral duty to vote for democrats and if you fail its a stain on you that cant be cleaned off just by being mouthy. You should be ashamed of yourself for posting this poo poo. hakimashou fucked around with this message at 01:38 on Jul 6, 2017 |
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Jul 6, 2017 01:32
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hakimashou posted:Yes you are, you are actively helping the republicans enact their agenda by not voting for democrats, you're almost as bad as someone who votes for republicans. hmm no that's idiotic. rahm emmanuel is a democrat and i'd never vote for him. there have to be limits but you idiots argue there's no limits to how terrible the dems can become, they have to be voted for because they're "better" than republicans
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Jul 6, 2017 01:48
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Condiv posted:it's doubtful i'm the reason why trump is president. also, i'm not helping republicans by not voting for democrats. the democrats don't own my vote, and if they want it they can run non-poo poo tier candidates. It depends on what we're talking about. Your angry misguided detachment from reality (democrats are murderers) is the exact thing that made it possible for the rural working class to delude themselves into championing a Manhattan real estate salesman because he tickled their ideological nerve centers the right way.
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Jul 6, 2017 01:51
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asdf32 posted:It depends on what we're talking about. Your angry misguided detachment from reality (democrats are murderers) is the exact thing that made it possible for the rural working class to delude themselves into championing a Manhattan real estate salesman because he tickled their ideological nerve centers the right way. i never argued dems are murderers 
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Jul 6, 2017 01:52
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Condiv posted:i never argued dems are murderers you're a murderer you murdered hope 
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Jul 6, 2017 01:56
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maybe if you dont think the dems are lesser evils, dont start a thread accepting that premise in the title?
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Jul 6, 2017 02:05
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Despera posted:Then why start this idiotic thread? Oh because you are an attention whore. yeah this is pretty much it
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Jul 6, 2017 02:07
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Condiv posted:the left sucked it up too. last i checked, around 95% of bernie supporters voted for clinton. hillary just didn't pull in enough of anyone else. cause she didn't have a platform worth a drat and she was basically running as 8 more years. it was her election to lose and she lost it by her own actions. She had a pretty good platform, but yeah she did a loving terrible job of actually selling it, and in times of discontent a steady hand at the helm isn't always what people want even if you can convince them you can provide it. I sure agree she and her campaign hosed up horrifically.
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Jul 6, 2017 02:17
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Vote Dem, try to primary bad Dems. Problem solved.
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Jul 6, 2017 02:24
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Lightning Lord posted:Vote Dem, try to primary bad Dems. Problem solved. yeah these loving threads always pretend primaries dont exist and/or losing a primary means the evil centrists cheated you instead of that your ideas or candidates are not as popular as you thought
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Jul 6, 2017 03:09
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