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I wanna join in as a 1 because I know what the pieces are called and how they move and nothing else.
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Jul 8, 2017 22:17
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| # ? May 8, 2024 10:15 |
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Okay, so a few words on super basic chess strategy and tactics. Childish as it may sound, one of the best ways I've found to gain a basic of chess strategy as a beginner is applying a "personality" to each of the pieces. Despite the common misconception, pattern recognition is a lot more important than logical thinking or the ability to calculate many moves ahead: So if you can gain a feel for where each piece "wants" to be, you will usually end up in a pretty decent spot. So let's meet the team, shall we?  Pawn: The underappreciated everyman Value: 1 pawn Likes: Working together with other pawns, punching above his weight, reaching the edge of the board and being promoted Dislikes: Being alone General ideas: Pawns should usually as far as possible, be kept in "pawn chains" with their brethren - an isolated pawn is usually a weakness. However, promoting pawns by reaching the edge of the board is often a winning move in the late game.  Knight: The adrenaline junkie Value: 3 pawns (roughly, depends on the state of the board) Likes: Being in the middle of the action, forking things Dislikes: Being on the rim (it makes him grim), being hassled by pawns General ideas: Knights are most effective in the centre of the board where they can attack/protect the maximum amount of squares, preferably in a spot where they cannot be threatened by opposing pawns.  Bishop: The sniper Value: 3 pawns (roughly, depends on the state of the board) Likes: Hiding behind pawns on open diagonals, attacking things at long range Dislikes: Anything on the wrong coloured square General ideas: Bishops do very well as a long range threat, but can also be useless in situations where most enemy pieces are on different coloured squares.  Rook: The dependable workhorse Value: 5 pawns Likes: Sitting on open files, protecting passed pawns, consuming enemy pawns on their home ranks, castling Dislikes: Going to work, diagonals General ideas: Rooks are very strong, but usually don't come into play until the mid game. They're great both at protecting things in front of them as well as being a powerful threat on any open file. When possible, they should usually have an open file to the other rook.  Queen: The prima donna Value: 8-9 pawns Likes: Being important, mating, making glorious game winning sacrifices Dislikes: Protecting pawns, moving out too early General ideas: The queen is by far the most important piece on the board besides the king, and should not be wasted protecting non-critical pieces. Her high value is also her main weakness: You can usually not afford to trade away your queen unless it is in exchange for your opponent's, or if it is guaranteed to win you the game.  King: The king Value: INFINITY Likes: Being safe, saving the kingdom in its hour of greatest need. Dislikes: Being unsafe, being placed in check General ideas: In the early and middle game, king safety is one of the absolute highest priorities. However, the king becomes a very strong piece in his own right in the late game, and is critical to many late game mating positions. Now, let's talk a bit about the basic tactical tools of Chess: Pins, skewers, forks, and discoveries.  In the above position, we have a skewer and a pin. In a skewer, a more valuable piece is in the line of attack in front of a less valuable piece. In this case, the black rook is skewering the white king and bishop. Since the king will have to move out of the way, black can easily capture the white bishop. Pins, where a less valuable piece is protecting a more valuable piece (as seen on the right) are more tactically subtle tools. In this case, the black bishop is pinned to the black king. Since you cannot place your own king in check, the bishop is completely unable to move unless the king or the attacking rook is out of the way. Pins are often incredibly useful to neutralise defending pieces without actually capturing them.  A fork is a situation where a single piece attacks two or more pieces simultaneously, generally forcing the opponent to choose which of them to protect (unless of course they are able to capture the forking piece). In the above example, the white queen is forking two pawns and the king, while the white knight is forking the the two pawns. During most circumstances, a decent fork is almost a guarantee to at least being able to exchange pieces, if not winning material.  A discovery is when one piece moves out of the way to allow another piece to make an attack, as illustrated by the white king in this example. Any move into the c or e files would lead to a discovered check on black's king. Discoveries can be used to create very powerful attacks or outright winning material, especially in the case of discovered check. I hope this gives at least some small insights to the newer players in the thread! I plan to at least make one more info post covering some basic opening principles before I divide you into teams and the game commences (which will probably happen some time on monday). If anything I discussed here was unclear, or if there is any other topic you'd like to see covered in more detail in a post of its own, just say the word and I (and I'm sure other chess goons) will be happy to enlighten you!
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Jul 8, 2017 23:59
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hello i would like to play chess i dont know how to translate my skill to a 10 pt scale but here's my chess.com profile w my ratings and stuff https://www.chess.com/member/alasdaircrawfish also we have a wee goon group going here: https://www.chess.com/club/goon-friend-squad
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Jul 9, 2017 00:19
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I'm a solid 5
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Jul 9, 2017 00:19
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which piece is most like scissors?
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Jul 9, 2017 03:56
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Blind Sally posted:which piece is most like scissors? Bishop
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Jul 9, 2017 03:57
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My chess level in in the negatives, I can lose a game of Xiangqi in about 4 turns to the weakest AI. But check Xiangqi out. It has cannons!  For a true mess of an experience consider making goons learn Taikyoku shogi 
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Jul 9, 2017 05:12
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Last time I participated in a group chess match I was the one who lost a tempo and ruined the game. I would like to play Xiangqi some time. Or group Shogi (the 9x9 board kind). Kangra fucked around with this message at 05:47 on Jul 9, 2017 |
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Jul 9, 2017 05:37
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Might as well throw my hat in the ring for this. I've been a fairly good player in the past but it's been ages since I played a proper game. So I'd say...probably 8 or 9 on the scale.
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Jul 9, 2017 08:15
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Dr. Snark posted:Might as well throw my hat in the ring for this. I've been a fairly good player in the past but it's been ages since I played a proper game. So I'd say...probably 8 or 9 on the scale. I know what all the pieces do, no the basic idea of castling and enpassant even if I can't apply it and haven't played in years. I'll put in at around a 5.
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Jul 9, 2017 09:04
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Yay, another covski thread! I'll observe this time. I do have to note that my skill of observing is a solid 20 out of 10.
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Jul 9, 2017 10:30
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Before I talk about a few opening principles, it's worth talking mentioning the concept of tempo. Tempo means "time" in Italian, and is a single turn or move - basically having the initiative. Whenever you use more moves than necessary to do something, or waste a move entirely, you are said to lose a tempo. Conversely, you can gain a tempo by forcing your opponent to make an inconsequential move, usually by checking. White, moving first, starts the game with a tempo - this is the advantage that makes white slightly stronger. (winning ~5% more often in competitive games. There are also late game situations where it might be beneficial to waste a tempo on purpose, Okay, some opening principles. Remember that these are only general guidelines, and won't necessarily be correct every time! Control the centre. The very first moves are almost always aimed at controlling the four squares in the centre of the board, either directly (by occupying them with pawns) or indirectly (by attacking them from a distance, often with bishops). This is because the centre squares are essential for being able to develop your pieces efficiently, as well as giving you a lot more flexibility in staging attacks. Develop your pieces. A piece which doesn't attack or defend anything is useless, so you want to get your pieces (especially knights and bishops) into active play as soon as possible. Avoid moving the same piece twice in the opening game unless necessary, in order to preserve tempo. Knights before bishops. This is not a hard and fast rule, but it's usually a good idea to develop your knights before your bishops. The reasoning behind this is that it is not always immediately clear where the bishops are best situated, while the knights generally want to develop to the same squares. (c3 and f3 for white, c6 and f6 for black) Don't bring the queen out too early. It's tempting to bring out your strongest piece as quickly as possible (and it works sometimes!), but it's also easy to get caught in a situation where you're bleeding tempo as the opponent chases your queen across the board while developing their pieces.  If we imagine a perfect world where your opponent doesn't get to move for the first seven rounds, you'd probably want your initial development to look something like this. Pawns occupying the centre, bishops and knights active, king safely castled away, no time wasted moving pawns around just yet. Life is good. I hope this gives some beginners at least an idea what to do with those scary first moves of the game! Ask away if you have any questions, need clarifications, or want to know more about anything I've alluded to!
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Jul 9, 2017 12:49
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In chess related news, Kasparov recently announced that he is coming out of retirement  Anyway, here's what the current player list looks like. If I've missed you signing up, let me know! HerpicleOmnicron5 Faerie Fortune Paul.Power Davin Valkri Crosspeice Talow Dr. Fetus Garbonix chitoryu12 Glaive17 CirclMastr Suspect Bucket habituallyred Twib AJ_Impy UnderFreddy idhrendur Maigius Oblivion4568238 oath2order Added Space Snorb StoryTime oldskool Gridlocked Cloud Potato blizzardvizard Fat Samurai Nice piece of fish bman in 2288 jon joe Dr. Snark BioEnchanted This lands us at roughly 16 players per team, which I feel is fine, given that everybody won't be able to post every single turn and that I'm fully expecting some player attrition since this game could take quite a while.
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Jul 9, 2017 12:59
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Covski posted:Develop your pieces. A piece which doesn't attack or defend anything is useless, so you want to get your pieces (especially knights and bishops) into active play as soon as possible. It took me a long time to properly understand how important this was. The way I think of it now: a piece in its starting position is worth 0 points. It can't attack and it threatens maybe a few squares at best. Getting a bishop out from behind that wall of pawns is as much of an advantage as taking an enemy bishop.
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Jul 9, 2017 13:19
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Whybird posted:It took me a long time to properly understand how important this was. The way I think of it now: a piece in its starting position is worth 0 points. It can't attack and it threatens maybe a few squares at best. Getting a bishop out from behind that wall of pawns is as much of an advantage as taking an enemy bishop. Sometimes though, shifting that wall is more powerful than shifting the bishop itself.
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Jul 9, 2017 13:45
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Also! If any of you are interested in some casual chess, I highly recommend the free app Chess by Post! (Microsoft Store , Google Play, App Store) It features both ranked matchmade games against random players at the same skill level, and unranked games with friends with full compatibility across all devices. It also has a very handy move planner, which probably is the main thing saving me from constantly blundering. It also has an extremely merciful time limit for games, which is nice. I'm on the app as covski, feel free to add me! If you register and post your username in the thread, I'll add a section to the OP with goon players so we can all get our chess on.
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Jul 9, 2017 14:50
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:Sometimes though, shifting that wall is more powerful than shifting the bishop itself. Oh, absolutely. I guess by getting the bishop out what I mean is making sure that it threatens more of the board, whether you're doing that by moving the pawns or the bishop itself.
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Jul 9, 2017 16:36
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I hate having knights on guard duty and keeping two pawns without other pawn support on the 4th row rubs me the wrong way. That's probably one of the multiple reasons why I'm bad at the game.
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Jul 9, 2017 16:50
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Covski posted:Also! If any of you are interested in some casual chess, I highly recommend the free app Chess by Post! (Microsoft Store , Google Play, App Store) I just downloaded the app, and am on there as idhrendur.
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Jul 9, 2017 17:12
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Fat Samurai posted:I hate having knights on guard duty and keeping two pawns without other pawn support on the 4th row rubs me the wrong way. That's probably one of the multiple reasons why I'm bad at the game. Generally it is a good idea to have pawns doing as much of the guarding as possible, rather than the stronger more mobile pieces, but they can always be moved up later to take over as you transition into the middle game. Moving the pawns too early (unless it's necessary, of course) comes at the expense of developing your pieces, as well as being likely to block them in or creating weaknesses in your position. I'd go so far as to say (again, generally) that it's best to never defend things until you actually have to. This ties into one of the trickier aspects of chess - the timing of the moves is just as important as the moves themselves. A move that might have been optimal last turn can be downright self-destructive the next. That said, the above example is of course extremely theoretical - against any opponent other than an absolute novice you're guaranteed to be forced make some reactive moves.
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Jul 9, 2017 17:22
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I just want to say I'm super tempted to take everyone who said they are too good at chess for this and make them play Knightmare Chess.
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Jul 9, 2017 17:43
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I'm down. I'd put myself as a 2 in that I vaguely remember stuf like castling and en passant.
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Jul 9, 2017 17:50
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Okay, so I think we're pretty much good on players now! I have drawn up preliminary teams, and will decide which team plays white by coinflip (I was originally going to decide via rock paper scissors, until I was reminded that it would delay the game for days due to rock tie), and I plan on getting the game started on monday. The first draft of the rules are as follows: The teams will choose their move based on a simple vote - Note that this means that explaining to your team mates why your suggested move is the best is just as important as coming up with it in the first place! Teams will have 24 hours to decide on their move, though I will call the vote early if one move gains a clear majority. I'd much prefer if you refer to your moves using standard chess notation as much as possible to make things easier on me! I'd also prefer if as much team communication as possible is kept in the threads, both for the benefit of the observer thread and to make it easier for new players to follow the lines of thinking without having to use external sites. Players aren't allowed to read the observer thread or the opposing team's thread, observers aren't allowed to post in the team threads. Absolutely no super villainy allowed.
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Jul 9, 2017 17:58
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Covski posted:Absolutely no super villainy allowed. ! I hope everyone obeys the rules. This is again a super cool LP concept, please don't destroy Covski's excellent work.
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Jul 9, 2017 18:51
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I'm not sure how you would cheat at chess, there's no hidden information.
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Jul 9, 2017 19:13
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Added Space posted:I'm not sure how you would cheat at chess, there's no hidden information. I take it you weren't around for the Rock Paper Scissors thread.
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Jul 9, 2017 19:36
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Espionage with a mostly rng game?
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Jul 9, 2017 19:50
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Added Space posted:I'm not sure how you would cheat at chess, there's no hidden information. "Hey, guys, someone in the other thread says they're planning a two-pronged attack on our rook. We'd better prepare for it in advance. I didn't notice our knight was in danger, but they're planning to capture it, so we should watch for that."
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Jul 9, 2017 20:02
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Added Space posted:I'm not sure how you would cheat at chess, there's no hidden information. Enter the board into some chess engine and have it analyse the best possible moves?
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Jul 9, 2017 20:08
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oscarthewilde posted:Enter the board into some chess engine and have it analyse the best possible moves? I personally feel that's fair game, especially since democracy weakens that move. Plus those are freely accessible for both teams.
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Jul 9, 2017 20:15
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:I personally feel that's fair game, especially since democracy weakens that move. Plus those are freely accessible for both teams. Please don't do this.
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Jul 9, 2017 20:17
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That sounds like it would make the whole thing pointless and we might as well watch AI play chess against itself.
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Jul 9, 2017 20:25
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Relax guys, the anti-supervillain rule was meant as a joke  However, I do agree with the "no chess engines" thing: I was actually going to add it, but I just plain forgot when typing up the rules. I'll add it soonish! HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:I personally feel that's fair game, especially since democracy weakens that move. Plus those are freely accessible for both teams. While this is a fair point, I feel the use of chess engines would detract from the learning aspect of this LP - computer assistance makes it easy to lose focus on the actual reasoning and thought processes that create the moves, which is a large part of the point.
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Jul 9, 2017 20:29
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I'm really looking forward to observing this LP, if only so I can see people arguing over whether 1. e4 or 1. d4 is a better opening move, with a couple of brave hold-outs arguing for 1. c4 just to throw the other team off-guard. I guess the rest of the game could be fun to watch too. On a more serious note, while tactics are always good to point out, it's also very educational to see commentary regarding more abstract concepts like space advantages, defendable/undefendable positions, and square control. Here's hoping for a pawn underpromotion for maximum showmanship!
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Jul 9, 2017 21:15
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:I personally feel that's fair game, especially since democracy weakens that move. Plus those are freely accessible for both teams. Yeah, that's not cool. We're not doing this and it's going to be pretty obvious in the thread if someone does or is mysteriously making perfect suggestions for plays. Also, 24 hours turnover is good and I think this might develop into something really interesting. I hope the observers have a fun time too. I've myself played against some very seriously good players and been completely obliterated every time, so I know a lot about losing at chess. This will help somehow, I'm sure. Looking forward to this.
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Jul 9, 2017 21:42
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Covski posted:While this is a fair point, I feel the use of chess engines would detract from the learning aspect of this LP - computer assistance makes it easy to lose focus on the actual reasoning and thought processes that create the moves, which is a large part of the point. Fair enough, I personally never planned on using them (I have other, much better plans than that) but thought it could've been an interesting wrinkle, especially since both teams could crunch out eachother's perfect move and move to counter that.
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Jul 9, 2017 22:03
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I am extremely bad at chess because all I do is try and capture my opponent's stuff that's right in front of me and have 0 long term planning in mind. I'm just going to observe and see if I can learn anything in the meantime. 
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Jul 9, 2017 22:34
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Can we do team/pair up requests? I'd like to request to not be on Herp-Derp's team, thanks.
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Jul 9, 2017 23:58
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Davin Valkri posted:Can we do team/pair up requests? I'd like to request to not be on Herp-Derp's team, thanks. Whichever team Herp ends up on should get an extra Good Player as compensation
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Jul 10, 2017 00:01
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| # ? May 8, 2024 10:15 |
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Hey, I'm a tactical mastermind. Never personally suffered a defeat. This will be sure to end the same way.
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Jul 10, 2017 00:27
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