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Don't be intimidated. xd5
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Jul 11, 2017 19:11
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| # ? Apr 27, 2024 15:20 |
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gently caress I meant knight to c-3 not b-3  That said, after reading FatSamurai's post, I think I like exd5. Seems a good idea to keep being aggressive, especially when you move first.
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Jul 11, 2017 19:13
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Hurm. I'm not fond of just gobbling up stuff without any further plan, especially if it's just going to be taken by their Queen, and we've no strategy to take her in response. My first instinct is d3, which means e-pawn will at least cost the pawn, but could lead to d3-dxe4-dxe4-QxA4  ....-oh poo poo! Another possibility: Bb5+ (check)! Then -wait, no, they can also counter with a pawn to c6.
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Jul 11, 2017 19:29
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Cloud Potato posted:Hurm. I'm not fond of just gobbling up stuff without any further plan, especially if it's just going to be taken by their Queen, and we've no strategy to take her in response You asked for a further plan, so here it is: It will be an even pawn trade and we can develop our board while chasing the queen to a poor spot with knight to c3. The best move they can make in response is queen to a5, which while not immediately touchable is also not doing a lot for black. The end result is that we can develop our board in a better way than our opponent through the gain into tempo. That's all if they make no mistakes.
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Jul 11, 2017 19:41
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I am for making them rush to protect their king so Bishop to b5 for check and even if they move out a pawn we can still take the pace from here. I mean only 4 of their pieces can block the check and if they use the knight for it we can take both the pawn and it in 2 turns, otherwise we move our knight out to protect what might take our bishop.
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Jul 11, 2017 19:47
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Since the issue has come up in all the threads: I will only call the vote early when a majority of all players on a team vote for the same move. This means 10 players out of a total of 18 on each team. My thinking is that you would all rather keep the game moving forward in a situation where it is extremely unlikely that the balance will be upset (as it would require everyone who hasn't voted to vote for another option, as well as at least one other player changing their vote). I'm certain this won't be an issue later on when we move out of book openings and the decisions are more contentious. However, if any of you feel very strongly about this, I'm more than willing to change this policy! 
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Jul 11, 2017 19:51
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Regarding Bb5 for check: Them advancing the pawn their c pawn means we have to run away having accomplished nothing (probalby to d3, where it's going to hamper the development of our other Bishop because we won't be able to advance our d pawn) AND having given them a free move with which to defend their pawn on d5.
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Jul 11, 2017 19:59
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Garbonix posted:I am for making them rush to protect their king so Bishop to b5 for check and even if they move out a pawn we can still take the pace from here. I mean only 4 of their pieces can block the check and if they use the knight for it we can take both the pawn and it in 2 turns, otherwise we move our knight out to protect what might take our bishop. This is actually incorrect, as moving our bishop in for check induces an immediate develop of pawn to c6. This will guaranteed put us behind on tempo as our only option will be to retreat with our bishop, essentially having wasted a turn while allowing the opponent to develop. Taking the pawn with our bishop results in that bishop being taken in turn and there's no other immediate method for keeping their king in check or regaining the lost material. Leaving our bishop where it is results in it being taken by the enemy pawn, and capturing that pawn because we moved knight to c3 leaves said knight with nowhere productive to go while still leaving us behind on material. Visualization of the result of this plan:  Covski posted:Since the issue has come up in all the threads: I will only call the vote early when a majority of all players on a team vote for the same move. This means 10 players out of a total of 18 on each team. Thanks! It's good as-is, I think.
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Jul 11, 2017 19:59
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Pawn to E5 Throwing away our pawn at this stage of the game might be the correct move, but deep inside your hearts you know it isn't the right move. The little fellow just needs a chance to hold out in the middle until the enemy backline opens up a bit.
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Jul 11, 2017 20:14
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I know I may sound like some big meanie trying to force a particular plan down our throats, but I want everyone to know that's it's nowhere near my goal to shoot down everyone else. It's just that these very early game stages are well studied by people much smarter than all of us put together, done so a thousand times over. Whilst demonstrating these lines, I hope I can also serve to educate everyone in the wonderful ways of chess. It's a glorious game with a lot of room for fantastic strategy that only really comes out when openings are solid from both sides. Otherwise it's a one-sided stomp and, to be frank, if there's going to be any stomping I'd like us to be the stompers.
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Jul 11, 2017 20:15
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jon joe posted:You asked for a further plan, so here it is: It will be an even pawn trade and we can develop our board while chasing the queen to a poor spot with knight to c3. The best move they can make in response is queen to a5, which while not immediately touchable is also not doing a lot for black. The end result is that we can develop our board in a better way than our opponent through the gain into tempo. That's all if they make no mistakes. Thanks for this post, I feel slightly better about exd5. Although, if this is Goon-speed hyper-aggressive chess, the more likely continuation would be Qe6+.
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Jul 11, 2017 20:32
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Cloud Potato posted:Thanks for this post, I feel slightly better about exd5. Although, if this is Goon-speed hyper-aggressive chess, the more likely continuation would be Qe6+. That'd be even better, as that queen is easy for us to block while it prevents them from developing a key pawn.
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Jul 11, 2017 20:39
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Or if we want to get super aggressive, blocking with our queen and offering the trade probably puts us in the best position if they take it.
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Jul 11, 2017 20:42
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Actually I take that back, blocking with the bishop would be better in that position for us. Still, it's an incredibly awkward position that black would be putting themselves in, so I'm happy to bait as many "aggressive" moves that we can get our hands on.
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Jul 11, 2017 20:52
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After all the posting on it, I'll agree with exd5.
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Jul 11, 2017 21:30
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jon joe posted:Actually I take that back, blocking with the bishop would be better in that position for us. Still, it's an incredibly awkward position that black would be putting themselves in, so I'm happy to bait as many "aggressive" moves that we can get our hands on. I agree. exd5 lets us be aggressive, and we can react accordingly from there.
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Jul 11, 2017 21:34
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Agreeing with exd5 because this is really going to gauge how the black team will respond: take out their queen to protect, or will they make a weird move here and now? Either way, the less we show of our hand, the better, don't you guys think?
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Jul 11, 2017 21:40
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exd5 sounds good
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Jul 11, 2017 21:44
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Go on then. I vote exd5, and I believe that's 10 votes.
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Jul 11, 2017 22:20
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Cloud Potato posted:Go on then. I vote exd5, and I believe that's 10 votes. Right you are! Calling the vote for exd5 with 10 votes. (10 needed to have a majority)
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Jul 11, 2017 22:31
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 Let's see how the other team deals with this!
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Jul 11, 2017 22:35
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 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Black has 24 hours to decide on a move.
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Jul 11, 2017 22:44
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Alright, so if they use their queen to take our bait, what's our game plan? Or if they ignore our bait entirely?
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Jul 11, 2017 23:02
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Nc3, puts pressure on their queen and there's not a lot of good places to stash her afterward.
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Jul 11, 2017 23:04
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Added Space posted:Nc3, puts pressure on their queen and there's not a lot of good places to stash her afterward. This is correct. Dr. Fetus posted:Or if they ignore our bait entirely? Depends entirely on how they ignore it. The most common would be knight to f6, which leaves us open to making some dumb mistakes if we try to hold onto our pawn too hard (this can cause poor developments on our part), so the typically recommended response is pawn to d4, which gives up our pawn-up in exchange for a stronger position.
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Jul 11, 2017 23:15
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They're goons. Do you honestly think they're going to do anything other then bash face-first into the problem?
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Jul 11, 2017 23:25
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Added Space posted:They're goons. Do you honestly think they're going to do anything other then bash face-first into the problem? Maybe? My money goes more towards "goons bad" than "goons ultra-aggressive", I wouldn't doubt they could trick themselves into making a worse move.
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Jul 11, 2017 23:46
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There are also people who know how to play chess in the other thread. The better players might spot the problem with sending their queen out this early. Unless they somehow have a super secret plan for that, but it would be too early in the game to start seeing that far ahead. Ignoring the queen bait is a real possibility.
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Jul 11, 2017 23:50
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Dr. Fetus posted:There are also people who know how to play chess in the other thread. The better players might spot the problem with sending their queen out this early. Unless they somehow have a super secret plan for that, but it would be too early in the game to start seeing that far ahead. Ignoring the queen bait is a real possibility. Well, even with the problems that sending the queen out has, it's still the best move that Black can make given the current position. Either they didn't foresee everything coming up to this point when they made their initial response and turned this game into the Scandinavian Defense, or they're hoping play progresses in a particular way due to exploiting group-consensus through non-obvious moves we'd need to make to win. All and all though, they're going to mess up eventually. We just have to not mess up first.
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Jul 11, 2017 23:55
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I'm glad Team White's been holding down the fort while I was off orienting for my first real job (wooo nursing). There's not much for me to add, but I'll just say that I'm extremely surprised to see that Black so gleefully sacrificed their own pawn for, well, absolutely nothing. I don't suppose one of you guys could guess why they made that particular move?
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Jul 12, 2017 00:16
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Twib posted:I'm glad Team White's been holding down the fort while I was off orienting for my first real job (wooo nursing). There's not much for me to add, but I'll just say that I'm extremely surprised to see that Black so gleefully sacrificed their own pawn for, well, absolutely nothing. I don't suppose one of you guys could guess why they made that particular move? They might have watched this video and are hoping to pull some of its sick tricks.
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Jul 12, 2017 00:29
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So now that we've taken their pawn, one of their options is to pull the queen out to try and stop us from rushing the king, right? But what if they move one of their pawns to either c6 or e6? Is that a move that we should consider them taking? What if they decide to go crazy and try to pull out their king? What if they try to move the rook into play before the queen, via pawn displacement? I'm sorry. Like I said, I have no clue how to play this game, so I don't know what alternative moves to expect the other team to try.
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Jul 12, 2017 00:44
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bman in 2288 posted:So now that we've taken their pawn, one of their options is to pull the queen out to try and stop us from rushing the king, right? But what if they move one of their pawns to either c6 or e6? Is that a move that we should consider them taking? What if they decide to go crazy and try to pull out their king? What if they try to move the rook into play before the queen, via pawn displacement? Typically speaking, when your pieces aren't in danger and you can't get some free captures or tempo, the answer is to develop your side of the board to put yourself in a better position in the future. For example, if our opponents waste their turn moving their king like you mentioned, we essentially ignore it until we can use it. It's the equivalent to our opponent tempo-ing their self.
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Jul 12, 2017 01:54
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Assuming they take the bait we should could advance the pawns to threaten the queen. D2 to d3 and then C2 to C4 develop to board for us and force them to move their queen away.
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Jul 12, 2017 02:03
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oath2order posted:Assuming they take the bait we should could advance the pawns to threaten the queen. D2 to d3 and then C2 to C4 develop to board for us and force them to move their queen away. To do so would be to develop our pawn structure awkwardly over the course of two turns, making things much easier on black than if we simply move knight to c3 to attack their queen.
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Jul 12, 2017 02:20
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How should pawns generally be handled at the beginning of the game in chess? Would you want to try to move them as such to prioritize some of your more important pieces being able to move out early on?
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Jul 12, 2017 02:28
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Dr. Fetus posted:How should pawns generally be handled at the beginning of the game in chess? Would you want to try to move them as such to prioritize some of your more important pieces being able to move out early on? That's a really generic question that I'm not certain how to answer, but I'll give it a shot. Control the center (having pieces on or attacking d4, e4, d5, and e5) (Leave room to) develop your knights and bishops Don't sacrifice pawns unless you have a plan Support your other pieces I think this article on chess strategy can impart sounder wisdom than myself, however. To be more specific to this opening (Scandinavian Defense), the major advantage to White is that it often develops to allow us to castle queen-side (the long castle). To move our pawns as oath2order suggests would remove this advantage by not developing our queen-side knight immediately whilst also making our queen side pawn structure more open to attack. Emmideer fucked around with this message at 02:44 on Jul 12, 2017 |
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Jul 12, 2017 02:41
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Now, if you did want to move our pawns to eventually attack the queen, the better play would be Knight to f3. It doesn't immediately do anything against the queen, but is a solid development and eventually leads to us being able to go d4 and c4 which is a much stronger position. You can find the details in this video, although I personally think that it's not as great as some of the traps we can set with the traditional knight to c3, which also serves to demoralize our opponents if they didn't plan everything out.
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Jul 12, 2017 03:11
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I think demoralizing would work an interesting way here: it might split the vote on their side, and they might pick a weird move we can capitalize on. But demoralizing as it works on one person may not work the same way against a large group of them. I'm just saying that since it's hivemind vs. hivemind, the tactics offered might not work the way we want them to. That being said, moving into positions of power before our opponents would be a good idea. Gonna keep that knight movement in mind.
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Jul 12, 2017 03:44
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| # ? Apr 27, 2024 15:20 |
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bman in 2288 posted:I think demoralizing would work an interesting way here: it might split the vote on their side, and they might pick a weird move we can capitalize on. But demoralizing as it works on one person may not work the same way against a large group of them. Yes, both the knight movements of c3 and f3 are perfectly playable. I just mentioned the demoralizing thing offhand; it's not the reason for any particular move, the moves are solid on their own.
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Jul 12, 2017 04:15
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