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Joining the 1. e4 hype train. It's a classic for a reason: the centre's important, and doesn't expose the King to sneaky bishop attacks like d4 might.
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Jul 10, 2017 21:55
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Hurm. I'm not fond of just gobbling up stuff without any further plan, especially if it's just going to be taken by their Queen, and we've no strategy to take her in response. My first instinct is d3, which means e-pawn will at least cost the pawn, but could lead to d3-dxe4-dxe4-QxA4  ....-oh poo poo! Another possibility: Bb5+ (check)! Then -wait, no, they can also counter with a pawn to c6.
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Jul 11, 2017 19:29
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jon joe posted:You asked for a further plan, so here it is: It will be an even pawn trade and we can develop our board while chasing the queen to a poor spot with knight to c3. The best move they can make in response is queen to a5, which while not immediately touchable is also not doing a lot for black. The end result is that we can develop our board in a better way than our opponent through the gain into tempo. That's all if they make no mistakes. Thanks for this post, I feel slightly better about exd5. Although, if this is Goon-speed hyper-aggressive chess, the more likely continuation would be Qe6+.
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Jul 11, 2017 20:32
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Go on then. I vote exd5, and I believe that's 10 votes.
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Jul 11, 2017 22:20
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Work-postin', but first instinct is to stick with the previous idea of Nc3.
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Jul 12, 2017 12:48
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Covski posted:
Voting for d4. My original idea was Nc3, which would end up Nxd5-Nxd5-Qxd5, which ain't good. Possibilty of playing c4 now, which would end up in a similar situation to Nc3 but at least would leave us with a knight and a pawn taken at the cost of 2 pawns. Another thing to consider: they didn't take the unsupported pawn with their queen, so perhaps our interpretation of Goon-style hyper-aggressive chess was way off. And there's no guarantee that they'll even take the d5 pawn. How would we respond to Ne4? And then Nf2??? Actually, this early on, Kxf2 would counter that.
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Jul 12, 2017 22:06
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Voting Bb5+.Fat Samurai posted:
I feel the temptation won't be strong enough, and they'll counter with bxc6, making us play Ba4 (Not Bxc6+?, since Nxc6!). But we'll cross that bridge when we get there.
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Jul 13, 2017 23:55
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[Black to move]
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jon joe posted:No sir, this isn't a problem at all; we capture with our pawn. We would absolutely love it if they took the bait of our queen, because then their best case scenario is the loss of their own queen and bishop, with their worst case being checkmate if they select to push their queen to block for the king. I don't think they're going to take the bait. If we play dxc6 I feel they'll just play bxc6. My vote is for f3.
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Jul 15, 2017 17:13
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jon joe posted:And if they take bxc6, we've proven our pawn up; before it was tenuously hanging on a thread due the presence of the knight, but then it would be traded off for another pawn. Afterwards, we just play f3, which puts us the same blocking position, but in a way better board state in our opponent regardless of whether they choose to retreat or take our bishop. And then they play cxb5, we retaliate with fxg4, they play Nxg4 and the whole thing's gone to poo poo.
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Jul 15, 2017 17:27
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jon joe posted:We would absolutely love it if they responded to fxg4 with Nxg4: Hmm, maybe. Not sure where we'd go from there, though.
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Jul 15, 2017 17:39
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OK. That's a pretty strong consensus, so in the interests of keeping the game's pace up I'm changing my vote to dxc6, and I think that's the 10 votes required. Will they take the queen-bait?
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Jul 15, 2017 20:44
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I'm happy with Nf3. I wonder if Nc3 is worth consideration, also?blizzardvizard posted:Is there a reason why they won't respond with Bf3 afterwards? Or do we not mind if that happens? We could also respond to Bf3 with gxf3. Tasty, tasty bishop, at the cost of not having a nice clean kingside castling. 
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Jul 16, 2017 13:27
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My only worry after Qxf3 is their Qxd4. gxf3 takes care of the problem at the cost of our pawn structure and somewhere nice to castle. Be2 is a terrible stop-gap measure that unpins their knight.
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Jul 18, 2017 12:49
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Qxf3. Let's give this plan a shot.
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Jul 18, 2017 18:53
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Voting for a kingside castle. Might as well get the big lad a bit more safe while we've got the time.
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Jul 20, 2017 00:11
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Covski posted:
Voting c3. It supports our d-pawn, it covers another square if they're planning to move their dark-squared bishop out to facilitate castling.
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Jul 21, 2017 00:01
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Sebzilla's convinced me. Putting our bishop on f4 keeps their king from moving anywhere else. Bf4.
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Jul 25, 2017 19:41
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Good luck with the real life things, Jon Joe. You'll be missed. Thinking out loud (typing, whatever): Taking the c6 knight is very silly, since it'd go our bishop->their pawn-> our queen->their queen. Pawn to d5 helps us threaten that knight, but would probably be taken by their e-pawn, giving it the rook's protection as it marches down the board. Bishop to f4 would be a big loss of tempo, and they woudn't throw their queen away like that, so that's out. Beyond that, there's still a handful of development moves, Knight to c3 is still on the table, and pawn to b3 would strengthen our c4 pawn. Or we could try rook to d1, and give our d-pawn more support.
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Jul 27, 2017 22:41
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Fat Samurai posted:Ok, that Knight is no longer pinned. Options: Fat Samurai posted:On the other hand if we don't defend our d4 pawn (say, we move our queen knight), Black can take d4 with their Knight, we take their knight with our bishop and they take our bishop with their rook, recovering a pawn and leaving their rook smack dab in the middle of the board. Fat Samurai posted:We could take their bishop with our pawn, which ends up with the sequence Cloud Potato hast posted, which isn't nice for our development but leaves their queen side pawns completely isolated, but playing a pawn game will be boring.
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Jul 28, 2017 00:04
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Joining in with the Rd1 consensus.
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Jul 28, 2017 18:07
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If we leave the pawn, and if next turn they take our d-pawn, that'd end up with our bishop takes->their knight takes->our rook takes->their rook takes. So that's bad too. Moving the queen forward to support our d-pawn's no good either: f4 loses to the pawn, and e4 & g4 loses to the knight. But ooh! Queen to f5, check! I don't think Black's got anything threatening that square, and the check forces them to either block or move the king. Most likely they'd play Nd7, or Rd7 or Qd7. But would that help us? And we still can't take their e-pawn, since their other knight's covering it. Honestly, the only follow-up I can think of is Qxf7, for full crazytown frolics.
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Jul 30, 2017 13:23
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I like the idea of d5, but I'm worried that they'll counter with Nd4 and we either sacrifice our bishop for their knight, or our queen gets put into a very bad position. Which has me wondering if we play Qf5+ this turn, they presumably retreat their knight, and then play d5 the next turn. But that involves hoping that they make the move we want them to; their Qd7 to block the check seems quite nasty.
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Jul 30, 2017 18:30
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habituallyred posted:We could kick this can down the road by going Queen to h3. In fact I think I will recommend that: Qh3. Preemptive fiddling but it gives us time to think, since we are pretty sure they will move their king to b8. Unless they move their rook to A check along c8-h3 can be blocked by either their queen, rook or knight. I thought the knight block was more likely when pondering Qf5+. oath2order posted:Actually, I kinda like the idea of forcing check at this point. It limits them to a very small number of moves, none of which are really helpful. It also I think weakens thier best move if we move d5 next round, which is nd4. If we initiate the capture exchange there we end up with this board. Black plays Bc5, our rook moves and f2 pawn is pinned.
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Jul 30, 2017 23:19
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Voting for Bxc6. Moving the pawn to d5 just seems to doom our queen; I'm still not 100% convinced that taking the knight is just throwing our Bishop away. But it does kill their knight, so let's fulfill the goon hyper-aggressive chess game stereotype.
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Jul 31, 2017 12:05
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Lichess board URL. Killing the e5 pawn will be tricky, since it's covered by their queen, and taking with our d-pawn costs us a rook. Nc3 practically invites exd4, though Fat Samurai's plan has us immediately re-take with our bishop. Not sure how that plan would cope with their c5 straight after. Edit: Actually, responding to c5 with Nb5 is very interesting... Another possibility is just play d5 and open the blood gates (d5 cxd5, cxd5 Nxd5, Rxd5 Rxd5, Qxd5). We could force a pointless check with Qf5+ or Qh3+, easily blocked by 3 pieces or just moved out of. c5 is just stupid. I'll vote in the morning, but leaning towards Nc3 and Operation Fat Samurai at this time. Cloud Potato fucked around with this message at 00:19 on Aug 2, 2017 |
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Aug 2, 2017 00:14
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Voting Nc3. I think that's eight votes: how many do we need for a majority nowadays?
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Aug 2, 2017 11:23
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Lichess board URL.habituallyred posted:Pawn to g5 would have made more sense to me, so that might be what they are going for next. If they moved their g-pawn our queen could take their knight easily, and then take a rook the next turn. This h-pawn seems like blatant queen-bait, and with their rook (and knight!) just sitting there, so that's an obvious no-go. Shouldn't threaten it with g4 either (g4 hxg4, Qxg4+ Nxg4). On the other hand our options are looking pretty slim, too. My initial thought is a simple b3, for that nice powerful diagonal line of pawns, but be wary that it's no defence against their remaining bishop.
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Aug 3, 2017 21:39
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sebzilla posted:Can we just dxe5 and commence the bloodshed? Without going too far into it I think we're going to come out on top. If they go for the Rook trade it's to our advantage and leaves their King more exposed. If they Qxe5 then we can Qxc6+ and they start looking very vulnerable. Their other options are retreating the Knight to a useless position or abandoning it to a pawn. Ng4 is probably the only remotely worthwhile option for the Knight but then we can Bf4 to back up our pawn and/or threaten the Queen. Hmm. dxe5 Rxd1+, Rxd1 Qxe5, Qxc6+ Kb8, Rd8# and game. No guarantee that Black would go for that pawn, though. Cloud Potato fucked around with this message at 23:46 on Aug 3, 2017 |
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Aug 3, 2017 23:42
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Voting b3. We should hold off the slaughter until we've no other options. Plus, this pawn move they've done feels like a cry of desperation, that they know they're running out of sensible moves. If we keep the pressure up, they'll have no choice but to do a silly move, wich is when we capitalise.
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Aug 4, 2017 19:31
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I don't think Bg5 is a good idea, as it lets Black take our e5 pawn without consequence, as well as threaten our queen on f3. On the other hand, it's possible that Bf4 won't stop them from taking our pawn, then we take their knight, they take our bishop with their queen, leaving us with:  (White to move)Given all that, I still think Bf4 is our best option for the moment.
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Aug 6, 2017 17:52
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sebzilla posted:Nb5 is our path to victory, comrades. OK, let me see if I follow your reasoning: Nb5 cxb5, Qa8+ Qb8, Rxd8+ Kxd8, Qxb8+ and that's where I lose the thread.  (Black to move, in check)
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Aug 6, 2017 23:16
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Surely in the example I posted, we lose our remaining knight and a rook in exchange for their queen? On the other hand, hopefully the threat of Nxc7 next turn will prevent Black from taking our bishop this turn. Voting Nb5.
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Aug 7, 2017 12:42
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There's a part of me that wants to play Qf4 (instead of taking our knight, Black somehow moves theirs), Qxc6#. But we can't make their moves for them. Voting Qf5+.Dr. Fetus posted:As for Na7+... Bxa7 seems the next logical move here. Then Nxf3, gxf3 and then it's 2 rooks, bishop and 6 pawns against 2 rooks, bishop and 4 pawns.
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Aug 9, 2017 00:22
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Current Lichess board link. Voting Nxa7+. We have to be very careful the next couple of moves. If we give them the chance I can see them playing Qxd1+, Rxd1 Rxd1#. This pressure could be eased with g3, but at the loss of a lot of tempo. It sounds like most of our plan is based around taking their queen next turn, and in turn our queen being taken by their rook, but they may retaliate with their knight instead. I think it's worth considering. 
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Aug 10, 2017 23:57
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The cabin won. Like in all the slasher movies. And that one Frasier episode.
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Aug 14, 2017 21:51
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Lichess link. Congrats on surviving the cabin, Covski. The queen must fall. Voting Rxd7+.
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Aug 15, 2017 15:17
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sebzilla posted:They go Rxd7. We can take their Knight (Qxe5) for nothing. Agreed. sebzilla posted:They go Nxd7. We play Qxf7 and pin the Knight while threatening the remainder of their backline? Or Rd1 to bring our other rook into the fray (effectively still pins the Knight otherwise we go Rxd8)? I feel Rd1 is still subject to the "Rook takes Rook on d1 and insta-wins" possibility, even with their knight providing cover for now. My thought here was Qa5, tightening the noose around their king and threatening their rook. sebzilla posted:They move their King. We probably still want to take the Knight. If they're silly enought to move their King, then taking their rook with Rxd8 would be better.
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Aug 16, 2017 22:54
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 Qxe5.
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Aug 17, 2017 15:10
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The worry with Qe8 is if they counter Re7, making any taking of their pieces a death sentence for our queen. It does give us the time to then play Qa4 and save our knight, but that feels like ceding the middle of the board to our opponents. Voting Nb5, although I'm not too sure where to go from there. Also, this mucks up the new voting gubbins: before my vote we had enough votes to proceed, and now I feel like I'm holding things up by voting this way.
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Aug 18, 2017 18:52
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Why throw your rook away like that? Strange. Rxd1 seems like the best idea to me. Edit: Current Lichess link.
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Aug 20, 2017 16:51
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