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Kb7. Our only option.
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Aug 11, 2017 19:25
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 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 3.d4 Bg4 4.Bb5+ c6 5.dxc6 Nxc6 6.Nf3 Bxf3 7.Qxf3 Qd7 8.0-0 e6 9.c4 0-0-0 10.Be3 Qc7 11.Rd1 e5 12.Bxc6 bxc6 13.Nc3 h5 14.dxe5 Ng4 15.Nb5 Nxe5 16.Qf5+ Qd7 17.Nxa7+ Kb7 White has 24 hours to decide on a move.
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Aug 15, 2017 14:03
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I got super excited and misread the board, thinking Kb7 was that white knight. This is the last possible major mistake the enemy can make, and our last bastion for victory. Otherwise, the board state devolves to chaos and we may be able to sneak a move in, but we lack great offensive material.
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Aug 15, 2017 14:46
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 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 3.d4 Bg4 4.Bb5+ c6 5.dxc6 Nxc6 6.Nf3 Bxf3 7.Qxf3 Qd7 8.0-0 e6 9.c4 0-0-0 10.Be3 Qc7 11.Rd1 e5 12.Bxc6 bxc6 13.Nc3 h5 14.dxe5 Ng4 15.Nb5 Nxe5 16.Qf5+ Qd7 17.Nxa7+ Kb7 18.Rxd7+ Your king is in check! You have 24 hours to decide on a move.
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Aug 16, 2017 12:10
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So, Nxd7 or Rxd7? I'm leaning on the knight. What are the likely outcomes?
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Aug 16, 2017 12:21
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I swore it before, but now it has come to pass. I vote for resignation. It's been a good run, but I'd like to seek vindication from the spectator gallery wrt Bxf3 and the Queenside castle. Our victory has been denied almost guaranteed, and it's poor sport to drag on a lost position. Alternatively, I vote Nxd7 This is because it moves the knight into a protected position, whereas Rxd7 keeps our knight hanging, easily taken by the Queen.
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Aug 16, 2017 12:53
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Oh will you shut up already, jesus. Either play to the end or stop being over dramatic every 5 seconds. I think we should move the Knight back, we could use some King protection more now than ever, but I'm tempted to go either way.
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Aug 16, 2017 13:02
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:I swore it before, but now it has come to pass. I vote for resignation. Whilst it is not up to me, I am willing to accept your resignation from this thread if you really want to go and read the spectator thread that much. However, as was pointed out earlier, we have the honour, privilege and duty to put on a good show for said spectators, which utterly precludes throwing in the towel. So, putting a marker down for AJ_Impy fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Aug 16, 2017 |
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Aug 16, 2017 14:51
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AJ_Impy posted:Whilst it is not up to me, I am willing to accept your resignation from this thread if you really want to go and read the spectator thread that much. However, as was pointed out earlier, we have the honour, privilege and duty to put on a good show for said spectators, which utterly precludes throwing in the towel. Yup. Basically, this was the only smart move for white to make, and seeing as white has made very few if any mistakes so far, it was entirely what I expected. We're out of options, but we might as well fight for it. I'm torn between moving the rook and the knight. If we get a chance to move that bishop and stack rooks, we could still eke out a win. It sacrifices a knight for tempo, but honestly I don't know what more that knight can do for us anyway. I think it's all rooks from here on in. We have to retain our clean shot through d corridor to accomplish anything. Rxd7 Get off the dark tile. Be a threat. Keep them from moving the rook up to d.
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Aug 16, 2017 15:05
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I maintain that it is BM to prolong a lost battle, especially when starting a new game is on the table. I'll continue to support the team with my contributions until this is done.
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Aug 16, 2017 15:06
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You know what a great Star Trek ship was? The NX class. (In other words, my vote's Nxd7.)
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Aug 16, 2017 15:23
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I agree with Nxd7. Mostly because with Rxd7 the queen picks off the knight for free.
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Aug 16, 2017 15:30
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Yeah, Nxd7 sounds good to me. I was torn between the 2 moves, but with that bit from Davin, I am convinced with moving the knight instead of the rook.
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Aug 16, 2017 15:35
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Rxd7 CirclMastr fucked around with this message at 20:41 on Aug 16, 2017 |
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Aug 16, 2017 15:51
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Yeah, Nxd7, save the rook. What's our counter to Rd1, since moving the knight means we no longer control the D?
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Aug 16, 2017 16:00
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oldskool posted:Yeah, Nxd7, save the rook. What's our counter to Rd1, since moving the knight means we no longer control the D? One option is pawn to g6, which tries to push the queen away. Another is Bc5, threatening the white knight.
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Aug 16, 2017 16:03
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oldskool posted:Yeah, Nxd7, save the rook. What's our counter to Rd1, since moving the knight means we no longer control the D? You don't have one, which really means you'll have to hope to make some vital threat with a knight reveal from d7, possibly against the queen. Honestly, I'd expect the queen to just go hog wild on our left side if the knight is moved. I'm going to stick to my guns on the rook move, but obviously majority decides.
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Aug 16, 2017 16:04
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Davin Valkri posted:One option is pawn to g6, which tries to push the queen away. Another is Bc5, threatening the white knight. Not really. Nxd7, Rd1, g6, Rxd7+, Rxd7, Qxd7+ and then mate in a few moves. Substitute Bc5 if you want.
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Aug 16, 2017 16:07
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I'm with fish on this one. Rxd7.
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Aug 16, 2017 16:23
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Rxd7 is the superior move here. Capturing with the Knight leads to a likely pin of the knight and rendering the d8 Rook useless with a Rxd1 response from them and we have no good immediate way to resolve that, and they will continue to choke us out. It's better to lose the Knight here than to both lose the ability to not only move the Knight, without then losing the Rook for free to their own Rook. If we go Rxd7 and they take the Knight (likely), it's still bleak but we aren't 100% choked out.
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Aug 16, 2017 17:03
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DM Zero posted:Rxd7 is the superior move here. Capturing with the Knight leads to a likely pin of the knight and rendering the d8 Rook useless with a Rxd1 response from them and we have no good immediate way to resolve that, and they will continue to choke us out. It's better to lose the Knight here than to both lose the ability to not only move the Knight, without then losing the Rook for free to their own Rook. If we go Rxd7 and they take the Knight (likely), it's still bleak but we aren't 100% choked out. That is sensible methodology. I'll throw out a more esoteric move, Bishop D6. We open up our other rook to defend D8, guard the knight and invite a trade of rook for bishop.
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Aug 16, 2017 17:24
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We're in check, so we either move the Rook or the Knight. I'll go Rxd7
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Aug 16, 2017 17:38
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Crosspeice posted:We're in check, so we either move the Rook or the Knight. Yeah, course. I meant for the next turn, regardless of how we play this. I'm still leaning closer towards the Knight move, but the enemy has asked us a really good question here.
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Aug 16, 2017 17:47
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All right, I accept the logic, switching to the Rook.
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Aug 16, 2017 17:52
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Nice piece of fish posted:Not really. Nxd7, Rd1, g6, Rxd7+, Rxd7, Qxd7+ and then mate in a few moves. Substitute Bc5 if you want. I say substitute g6 for Bd6 here, for clarity. It prevents Rxd7, allowing us to move our knight away plus defnding D1
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Aug 16, 2017 17:59
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I'm fine with Rxd7
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Aug 16, 2017 18:56
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Nxd7
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Aug 16, 2017 19:05
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 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 3.d4 Bg4 4.Bb5+ c6 5.dxc6 Nxc6 6.Nf3 Bxf3 7.Qxf3 Qd7 8.0-0 e6 9.c4 0-0-0 10.Be3 Qc7 11.Rd1 e5 12.Bxc6 bxc6 13.Nc3 h5 14.dxe5 Ng4 15.Nb5 Nxe5 16.Qf5+ Qd7 17.Nxa7+ Kb7 18.Rxd7+ Rxd7  Rules update! In order to speed things up as we are nearing the end of the game, I will now be calling the votes at 5 votes if there are no votes for different moves, or 7 votes if other options are being voted for. For reference, any moves which have received 7 votes have ended up winning and there has only been a few cases were a non-winning move has received more than 5 votes, so this shouldn't change anything in practice except making the game move faster. White has 24 hours to decide on a move.
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Aug 17, 2017 12:55
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Covski posted:
Now, let's say white goes and takes our knight with the queen. I think Bc5 then becomes our strongest play. It blocks the movement for the queen, meaning either they take with their bishop, blocking themselves in, or they take it with the queen. Either way, we delay the check. We then stack towers. If they don't check us or pin a threat on the king, which they really can't without sacrificing their queen, we win. Queen as it stands can't go very many places right now without sacrificing a critical advantage. They have to check us and they have to stop our towers, and they have to do that NOW. Rxd7 was probably the right move here. The response to our tower stack will have to be Qxc6+. It's the only thing that makes sense, because they will need that fifth row and it's covered by the knight. Which means we move out of check and probably have to cover with the tower. Which forces an exchange maybe? They might sac the queen. Maybe. We'll see if we get there. White really only needs to gently caress up once to lose now. Unfortunately, I don't have high hopes that they will.
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Aug 17, 2017 13:39
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Nice piece of fish posted:Now, let's say white goes and takes our knight with the queen. I think Bc5 then becomes our strongest play. It blocks the movement for the queen, meaning either they take with their bishop, blocking themselves in, or they take it with the queen. Either way, we delay the check. We then stack towers. If they don't check us or pin a threat on the king, which they really can't without sacrificing their queen, we win. I 100% agree with you, but I'd rather go Bd6 every time. It forces an action from the Queen, any of which would put her in a bad position. Bet they could do is drop the queen on C2, whereby we stack towers and effectively pin their queen and rook, lest the opposition wants to lose. Nxc6 can then be countered by the Kxc6 and we follow that up with Pawn F6 to protect D1 from Bishop G5.
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Aug 17, 2017 14:13
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:I 100% agree with you, but I'd rather go Bd6 every time. It forces an action from the Queen, any of which would put her in a bad position. Bet they could do is drop the queen on C2, whereby we stack towers and effectively pin their queen and rook, lest the opposition wants to lose. Nxc6 can then be countered by the Kxc6 and we follow that up with Pawn F6 to protect D1 from Bishop G5. Yeah, I see. But the thing is, anything we do to block our threat down d corridor is going to let them get the rook into play. If we maintain that rook threat, the moment they can't take our rook on d1 or has it pinned in the first place or block is the same moment we win the game. Once we don't have any credible threat against white king, we are done. We have to keep that line clear. And we have to stack towers to maintain our threat. I'm kind of thinking that we're gonna lose c6 pawn regardless. Maybe we should move it up and block e3 bishop? Trade it for theirs instead? We'd still be able to stack towers, and we'd maybe force white to protect the knight with the queen.
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Aug 17, 2017 14:22
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Nice piece of fish posted:Yeah, I see. But the thing is, anything we do to block our threat down d corridor is going to let them get the rook into play. If we maintain that rook threat, the moment they can't take our rook on d1 or has it pinned in the first place or block is the same moment we win the game. Once we don't have any credible threat against white king, we are done. I doubt they'll have the time to get their rook into play. Do you have a few minutes free? We could try the positions on lichess, both of us trying Bd6 and Bc5 to see what the better line is.
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Aug 17, 2017 14:26
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:I doubt they'll have the time to get their rook into play. Do you have a few minutes free? We could try the positions on lichess, both of us trying Bd6 and Bc5 to see what the better line is. Unfortunately no, I'm at work procrastinationposting. I need to start doing someting. Feel free to post what you think is a likely continuance of that line though, algebraic notation will probably be fine for most of the thread.
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Aug 17, 2017 14:29
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Nice piece of fish posted:Unfortunately no, I'm at work procrastinationposting. I need to start doing someting. Feel free to post what you think is a likely continuance of that line though, algebraic notation will probably be fine for most of the thread. Ah, fair enough. Here's the current board position as a FEN by the way, you can paste this into Lichess' board editor. If anyone else is around, please post and we'll get the game on to see. I'm terrible at visualising lines, so I doubt my lines will be of much service. I still think D6 is stronger by my gut, but proving it will be hard. 5b1r/Nk1r1pp1/2p5/4nQ1p/2P5/4B3/PP3PPP/R5K1 w KQkq - Lines assume QxE5 and BD6: White has the following real options in my eyes: QxD6, Qd4 or Qc3. I'd advocate Qd4 as it looks like an easy way to secure mate. Qd4  They hit Knight to B5, they open a potential mate. Bc5 to block, Qxc5 and now the D file is open. Ra8 to stop the mate, and then the enemy is stuck for something to do. If it isn't Pawn A3, we win via RxA2 either forcing the enemy rook to stop defending the back line, or letting us go RxB2 and then attacking potentially attacking the knight and the queen.  Qc3  This boardstate presumes we Rd8, followed by Qc2. This makes our new mission to dislodge D1. This is solved via Be5. The enemy has no method of stopping an attack from that angle, as it will dislodge their defence of D1. They also have no means of making check from this position. Their best play would be Bg5, but we can block that with Pawn F6. Be5 can go on to BxB2, which will force a reaction out of their backline again. I presume Rb1 as their solution, and then I'm stuck for answers. I can't imagine how the game will go from there. That's for better players than me. It's a somewhat deadlocked position, but deadlocked is better than pressured to me. We'd be able to pick off their knight or their bishop, and perhaps a very slow offensive involving our king pushing the C file pawn would be feasible, I don't know.  QxD6  My favourite position to work with. This position presumes we RxD6 to kill their queen. I anticipate BF4, which we follow up with RD3. They'll have no pieces to stop that move, it's a light square so it's safe from the bishop, pawns cannot take backwards, and the knight would need serious finangling to get there. This allows us a safe Rd8 stack and certain victory. Rd1+, Rxd1, Rxd1 mate.  I'm happy to have any of these lines challenged, I really think we're onto a winner with D6. Of course, I'm also happy to have alternative lines put forward. Qd4 however is what I most likely think the enemy will do to ascertain a potential mate, they likely will not expect our foresight in this regard. E: Oh, and here is what FEN means. Fairly interesting system! HerpicleOmnicron5 fucked around with this message at 15:06 on Aug 17, 2017 |
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Aug 17, 2017 15:03
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 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 3.d4 Bg4 4.Bb5+ c6 5.dxc6 Nxc6 6.Nf3 Bxf3 7.Qxf3 Qd7 8.0-0 e6 9.c4 0-0-0 10.Be3 Qc7 11.Rd1 e5 12.Bxc6 bxc6 13.Nc3 h5 14.dxe5 Ng4 15.Nb5 Nxe5 16.Qf5+ Qd7 17.Nxa7+ Kb7 18.Rxd7+ Rxd7 19.Qxe5 You have 24 hours to decide on a move. Remember, under the new rules the vote will be called when a move has 7 votes, 5 if there are no dissenting votes.
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Aug 17, 2017 17:54
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I think we already decided on Bd6.
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Aug 17, 2017 17:57
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I agree, Bd6.
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Aug 17, 2017 19:08
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Nice piece of fish suggested Bc5: I'll hear their reasoning before committing.
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Aug 17, 2017 19:32
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I'm tempted to offer Bb4 just to see if they'd waste a turn chasing it with pawns & give us the opening we need to rookstack but the way they've been playing making a move based on hoping they blunder is a mistake.
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Aug 17, 2017 20:25
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| # ? Apr 28, 2024 17:52 |
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AJ_Impy posted:Nice piece of fish suggested Bc5: I'll hear their reasoning before committing. I don't think so. The bishop can be taken by two different pieces and none of our pieces are in a position to capture in retaliation. We'd risk losing the piece for nothing.
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Aug 17, 2017 20:25
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