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If they go nc3, or Knight to C3, they still have no defense against Queen to E5 which puts them in check, forcing either Bishop or Queen to E2 followed by Bishop to G4 which give us a free pin on whatever was moved, and then we can take it and the remaining piece and again win the game instantly. It's loving cheeky, it's loving ballsy, and it's loving doable.HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:What is the Scandinavian Defense? (Source) New page so I'm dropping this here.
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Jul 11, 2017 12:11
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:If they go nc3, or Knight to C3, they still have no defense against Queen to E5 which puts them in check, forcing either Bishop or Queen to E2 followed by Bishop to G4 which give us a free pin on whatever was moved, and then we can take it and the remaining piece and again win the game instantly. It's loving cheeky, it's loving ballsy, and it's loving doable. What? What have you been smoking? That sacrifices us the queen at the very least, or at best gives us an exchange of queens. We don't win like that, there are three strikes to be made against e2 from white. We'd need an additional bishop or a rook to make that work. The pin is somewhat interesting, but what can we really do with it? I'm sorry, that's a clown move  I'm all for keeping it entertaining, and the scandinavian defence is that, but let's not go crazy here. The people on white are at least as good as we are collectively, no reason to hand them the victory that I can see.
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Jul 11, 2017 12:23
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At the very least we lock down a Bishop and a Queen. Perhaps wholly committing to this line is folly, but going as far as E5 is the strongest move we can make.
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Jul 11, 2017 12:29
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:At the very least we lock down a Bishop and a Queen. Perhaps wholly committing to this line is folly, but going as far as E5 is the strongest move we can make. I disagree, but we should probably table that discussion for when the thread's decided on d5 or e5 (or some sort of whacky nonsense defence that my sense of competitiveness won't allow me to mention). We can pick it up again IF we go the scandinavian defence and IF white then takes our pawn. I'd like to mention though that Covski literally warns against fielding the queen early in the very thread we started this game from for the very specific reason that she'll be chased all over the board losing us all kinds of tempo while white freely develops. I know white isn't stupid enough to let us get away with queen shenanigans.
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Jul 11, 2017 12:38
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Nice piece of fish posted:I disagree, but we should probably table that discussion for when the thread's decided on d5 or e5 (or some sort of whacky nonsense defence that my sense of competitiveness won't allow me to mention). We can pick it up again IF we go the scandinavian defence and IF white then takes our pawn. Pretty much this. Once the queen is in play, the other player tends to do everything in their power to either capture or nullify her. The trick is to play that to your advantage. Anyway, I do like the Scandinavian defense so Pawn to D5 it is.
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Jul 11, 2017 13:08
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d5 opens up our queen and her bishop, too. I'd say let's go with that to start.
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Jul 11, 2017 13:10
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I'm OK with d5 this turn, but moving forward I have issues with sending the queen gallivanting around the board (which I concede is all hypothetical  at this point):1. ...d5 2. exd5 Qxd5 3. c4 Qe5+ 4. Bf2 Bg4 5. Nf3  Queen's in danger & they're set to king-side castle. Anything that moves the queen off the E rank frees up that bishop, except anywhere we move it is probably going to be chased down by pawns. They're also set up for Qa4+ that forces either c6 or Nc6 (pinning the knight in the process either way) or us to move our king and prevent us from castling. That said, what's our plan if they decide to go with 2. e5? Or 2. d4? They aren't required to take our bait pawn, after all. Also if you want to draw on a board I recommend lichess
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Jul 11, 2017 14:08
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I did a little bit of reading about the Scandinavian defence last night and the most common third move (after the most typical White response of 3.Nc3) seems to be 3...Qa5, which nicely pins White's queen knight or pawn to the king. Either way, let's do this.    d5
Paul.Power fucked around with this message at 15:50 on Jul 11, 2017 |
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Jul 11, 2017 14:34
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We should absolutely not take the most common move. We need to force the other team into a stressful position where they end up suffering from in-fighting. Remember, we're not fighting one calculated individual: We are facing a collective who will argue. This is why the Scandinavian Defence is the strongest: They may take, they may not take, there will be proponents of both sides. This is why the pin is strongest: those who were against the take will be pissed off at those for the take, as it led them into a dangerous situation. Victory is through unity. We simply break their unity, then we may break their pieces.
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Jul 11, 2017 14:59
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Herp, your plan would send the queen gallivanting around the center while the knights and bishops stay stuck behind our pawns. Unacceptable. Pawn to e5.
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Jul 11, 2017 15:29
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Davin Valkri posted:Herp, your plan would send the queen gallivanting around the center while the knights and bishops stay stuck behind our pawns. Unacceptable. Pawn to e5. Basically this. Herp is trying to steer us into the canal walls. Again. e5
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Jul 11, 2017 15:36
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CirclMastr posted:Basically this. Herp is trying to steer us into the canal walls. Again. e5 Davin Valkri posted:Herp, your plan would send the queen gallivanting around the center while the knights and bishops stay stuck behind our pawns. Unacceptable. Pawn to e5. Fellas, what'd I just say? HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:Victory is through unity. We simply break their unity, then we may break their pieces. Our unity is being broken!
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Jul 11, 2017 15:37
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:Fellas, what'd I just say? Your definition of unity seems to be "everybody do exactly as I say."
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Jul 11, 2017 15:44
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I mean, it's worked so far!
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Jul 11, 2017 15:46
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Davin Valkri posted:Herp, your plan would send the queen gallivanting around the center while the knights and bishops stay stuck behind our pawns. Unacceptable. Pawn to e5. Er...supporting the Scandinavian Defense doesn't mean that we have to do that. There are plenty of other viable moves we can make from that position with our freed bishop and our knights. I agree that Herp's future plans are questionable, but right now this is a perfectly reasonable move. Don't discount it just because Herp suggested it, there's a saying about broken clocks and all that.
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Jul 11, 2017 15:49
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Dr. Snark posted:Er...supporting the Scandinavian Defense doesn't mean that we have to do that. There are plenty of other viable moves we can make from that position with our freed bishop and our knights. We don't have to, but if we don't we're giving them a pawn for nothing. At which point they don't have to chase our queen around but considering that they can do so very easily without really sacrificing long-term layout (i.e. they aren't moving pieces into inconvenient locations) they'd be foolish not to.
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Jul 11, 2017 15:52
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Can I also mention that historically, the Scandinavian Defense has led to a minority of wins for White. I'd like to repeat, this strategy leads to less wins than draws/losses for White. As Black, we are highly disadvantaged and playing for a draw above a win is advisable.
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Jul 11, 2017 15:54
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Another note: it appears that the enemy is not adopting the "Post Flood" strategy as they have under half the number of posts in their thread. This would insinuate we're up against some proper straight shooters, honest individuals with little discussion. This is the easiest type to light a fire under and goad into poor positions and arguments. I fondly recall my game-winning strategy in the first round of the 2014 Goon vs Goon CM: Red Thunder thread of blitzing a location and firing everything to put up an aura of overwhelming firepower - This broke enemy morale and led to an assured victory. We must do the same here, lest we suffer defeat.
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Jul 11, 2017 16:04
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oldskool posted:We don't have to, but if we don't we're giving them a pawn for nothing. At which point they don't have to chase our queen around but considering that they can do so very easily without really sacrificing long-term layout (i.e. they aren't moving pieces into inconvenient locations) they'd be foolish not to. I think you misunderstood me, let me try this again. There are two outcomes to this scenario: 1. They take our pawn. 2. They do not and move another piece instead. If they do take our pawn, that's our chance to move out our Queen by taking the offending pawn, which would effectively lock down the middle of the board from its position. We could seriously gently caress with White if we play our cards right. If they don't we can just move out our bishop or knights like normal. Either way we'd be in a fairly good position.
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Jul 11, 2017 16:06
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I'm all for giving our opponents opportunities to make mistakes. D5.
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Jul 11, 2017 16:50
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Viking Chess!   D5
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Jul 11, 2017 16:53
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I vote D5 because we need a direct confrontation to show how dark and edgy we are.
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Jul 11, 2017 17:04
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Yeah the central Queen is actually great for our development. Pinning their King in the next move doesn't need to be followed up by too much additional pressure, but it keeps our Queen safe and gives us a free turn to develop.
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Jul 11, 2017 17:11
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D5 Well, if we're using the queen for pin shenanigans, let's hope it works out well. and if the bait isn't taken, other stuff can be done at least.
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Jul 11, 2017 17:16
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I feel we should designate some roles and identify key issues we need to face amongst ourselves is best in order to ensure unity. This way we can have all our bases covered and analysis done impartially to our voting. I'm not the greatest analytical mind, but broad strokes are my kind of thing so here are a few ideas: We clearly need people to plan our moves of course, such as this very opener. This need will be more pressing with additional options available to us. Another useful role would be for people to plan out the enemy's moves relative to our own. If we can get someone dedicated to this who is kept separate to the actual move making to ensure impartiality, that'd be excellent. Checks and balances are needed for checks and mates, so we should also consider the duty of contingency planning if things don't go to our predictions, i.e. if the bait is not taken. I'm really just spitballing here, but I do feel some form of organisation can make things run smoother. Perhaps if we designate pieces to players?
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Jul 11, 2017 17:22
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Calling the vote for d5 with 11 votes. (10 needed for majority)
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Jul 11, 2017 17:24
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Covski posted:Calling the vote for d5 with 11 votes. (10 needed for majority) Unity assured.
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Jul 11, 2017 17:28
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 1.e4 d5 White has 24 hours to decide on a move.
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Jul 11, 2017 17:36
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That's annoying it happened that fast while I was at work. I would have agreed with that move anyway though. (I was at work literally 2 hours before our turn opened and just got back).
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Jul 11, 2017 17:48
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I'd be annoyed if there wasn't a majority confidently locked in. Thankfully in this case we did have a majority for an option, and so the Scandi begins!
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Jul 11, 2017 17:52
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Shall we discuss contingencies on non-exd5 moves? Such as d4, e5, or Bb5+
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Jul 11, 2017 18:01
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poo poo, now I'm wondering what took White so long to decide on which pawn to move forwards. We ended up agreeing on the Scandi so quickly in comparison.
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Jul 11, 2017 18:03
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Dr. Snark posted:poo poo, now I'm wondering what took White so long to decide on which pawn to move forwards. We ended up agreeing on the Scandi so quickly in comparison. They're a divided yet honest group. This much is evident. Therefore, we need to force them into situations they are uncomfortable with and follow that up with presenting them with a multitude of options. Hence the Scandi, and hence my proposal for a pin.
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Jul 11, 2017 18:08
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Dr. Snark posted:poo poo, now I'm wondering what took White so long to decide on which pawn to move forwards. We ended up agreeing on the Scandi so quickly in comparison.
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Jul 11, 2017 18:35
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Paul.Power posted:We did spend a lot of time going "if 1.e4 then shall we 1...d5?" before they even played it. So now we must do the same as last time. Team, the Nazis won early WW2 via blitzkrieg tactics. They lost because they became bogged down. While I'm not suggesting that we are Nazis, we can succeed where they failed by keeping up with high speed high pressure tactics. I suggest we pre-emptively vote on Queen takes D5 should the enemy use their pawn to take our D5 pawn. oldskool posted:Shall we discuss contingencies on non-exd5 moves? Such as d4, e5, or Bb5+ I'm not educated enough on Chess to draw up plans based upon such contingencies. We need threat assessments of all of these moves in order to keep up our momentum.
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Jul 11, 2017 18:43
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oldskool posted:I'm OK with d5 this turn, but moving forward I have issues with sending the queen gallivanting around the board (which I concede is all hypothetical Agreed. Also, good suggestion on lichess. oldskool posted:Shall we discuss contingencies on non-exd5 moves? Such as d4, e5, or Bb5+ Absolutely. I suggest Nf6, and maybe we'll draw them into the scandinavian gambit (in keeping with the theme) ending up here:  We might end up with a good advantage if they take the bait. HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:They're a divided yet honest group. This much is evident. Therefore, we need to force them into situations they are uncomfortable with and follow that up with presenting them with a multitude of options. Hence the Scandi, and hence my proposal for a pin. Chill with the amateur psychoanalysis. I doubt there's any insight to be had in wild speculation about the opposing bunch. And for good measure, I extremely strongly oppose any gimmick/monkeycheese moves like trying an early queen pin. White isn't going to loving panic when they have 24 hours to realize what you're pulling. It hardly works on inexperienced players who need to make a move in ten minutes. Let's take this seriously. I agreed with d5 because it's fun, not because it's some stroke of genius move. The rest of your suggestions so far are pretty much only good for losing us the game. BioEnchanted posted:That's annoying it happened that fast while I was at work. I would have agreed with that move anyway though. (I was at work literally 2 hours before our turn opened and just got back). I actually didn't realize voting ended instantly at a majority. I'll try and hold back on voting until everyone can have their say on it from now on, and I suggest everyone else does too, at least delay voting by a few hours extra. No sense in having a small majority drown out the rest, everyone should get their say and to participate in the discussion. Or is that a bad idea? I don't usually play chess by committee. HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:I feel we should designate some roles and identify key issues we need to face amongst ourselves is best in order to ensure unity. This way we can have all our bases covered and analysis done impartially to our voting. I'm not the greatest analytical mind, but broad strokes are my kind of thing so here are a few ideas: And finally, no, these are all terrible suggestions. Firstly, keep it simple. Secondly, everyone is (hopefully) already anticipating or trying to anticipate white's next move, no inception mind games necessary. We don't need to assign pieces or roles or whatever. We're playing chess, not organizing your wow raid. Chess by democracy doesn't work in any other way than what Covski specified: We make a suggestion, argue for the merits of that suggestion based on chess strategy or whatever other reason we have, and we colletively vote for the idea we like the most. I don't see how we gain anything by messing this process up with whatever the hell it is you're really suggesting.
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Jul 11, 2017 18:54
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:I suggest we pre-emptively vote on Queen takes D5 should the enemy use their pawn to take our D5 pawn. This is the wrong move. See above. Nobody be dumb enough to preemptively vote. It's also a waste of time. E: For that matter, let's generally just chill out a little. This is chess. We're not in a loving hurry here, there's no ticking clock. We have all the time in the world, and next vote should use as much of that 24 hours as possible. Nice piece of fish fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Jul 11, 2017 |
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Jul 11, 2017 18:56
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Herp is a huge moron. I know--he cost me Leningrad once. Ignore him.
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Jul 11, 2017 19:04
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Nice piece of fish posted:Chill with the amateur psychoanalysis. I doubt there's any insight to be had in wild speculation about the opposing bunch. There's plenty of insight to be had in wild speculation. It worked for me in previous Goon vs Goon threads, it'll work again for sure. Gimmicks and cheese moves are exceedingly powerful at destabilising groups. I'm not a fan of the Scandinavian Gambit and will strongly advocate for pinning the enemy. Davin Valkri posted:Herp is a huge moron. I know--he cost me Leningrad once. Ignore him. You rolled a 1, and we literally needed anything but a 1! If the dice weren't against us that would've ended in victory and you know it.
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Jul 11, 2017 19:04
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:You rolled a 1, and we literally needed anything but a 1! If the dice weren't against us that would've ended in victory and you know it. BEFORE that, you dunce. Anyway, nobody make formal proposals until White moves. Chess is a slow game.
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Jul 11, 2017 19:07
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