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oldskool posted:I'm not sure why we bothered with the sicilian if we weren't going to Qxd5. Anything else gave away a pawn for literally nothing unless a very particular set of moves is made that makes White get in their own way. You know what, I'm convinced. Nf6
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Jul 12, 2017 06:00
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Calling the vote for Nf6 with 10 votes (10 needed for a majority). Also, when changing your vote please state in the same post what you are changing it from, to make tallying easier for me 
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Jul 12, 2017 10:20
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We will wait and see the response. The enemy is on the backfoot now, but in a different way to my intent. Good move team! Bishop G5 looks like our best move next, but we need to see what they do first and see if we get a direct move against it.
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Jul 12, 2017 10:45
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 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 White has 24 hours to decide on a move.
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Jul 12, 2017 11:04
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They could put us in check (Bishop B5). This is essentially giving them the chance to do what we could've done last turn, but without the benefits to the checked side including setup for a castle queenside: we're better off aiming for that Kingside. For that reason, if they don't put us in a position where we must react immediately I suggest we move our pawn to E6 so the castle is immediately available if needed to protect the King. Otherwise, they have very few moves available other than pawns, knights, the Queen and her bishop, and nothing that should give them any sort of advantage. We might have this in the bag?
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Jul 12, 2017 14:40
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 We're two moves in literally nothing is in the bag
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Jul 12, 2017 14:46
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It's that kind of attitude that keeps it out of the bag.  We're playing White like a drat fiddle so far, John Williams called, he wants the London Symphony Orchestra back.
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Jul 12, 2017 14:51
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oldskool posted:
Seriously, Herp, in the words of today, check yourself before you wreck yourself. WRT White Bishop to B5, check, would the strongest counter be Bishop to D7? If they take the bishop, we can develop the other knight in the exchange.
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Jul 12, 2017 15:37
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Davin Valkri posted:Seriously, Herp, in the words of today, check yourself before you wreck yourself. Very possibly. The pawn war with c6 doesn't really gain us anything, and Bd7 invites an exchange which gains white exactly nothing. I'd probably rather that than for instance Nd7 (nbd7), as I'd rather have parity than not. Still, if white isn't over-aggressive to no significant gain, I'd expect c4, in which case e6 starts looking very interesting. Getting our bishop out and opening the way for our castle is just perfect for gaining us some tempo. Nice piece of fish fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Jul 12, 2017 |
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Jul 12, 2017 16:14
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Bishops are my favourite pieces for their long range control, so I'd rather not lose one but a trade should be ok.
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Jul 12, 2017 16:14
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:Bishops are my favourite pieces for their long range control, so I'd rather not lose one but a trade should be ok. If they go c4 you should become a vey happy man then, because then e6, pawn exchange and bishops out almost regardless. At this point, white could go somewhat agressively out with the bisop to check, but that doesn't really gain them very much by itself. If they are smart (and I have no reason to think they aren't), they'll ignore us and start developing their board; as you can see at this point, white's moved their pawn and fuckall else. This is bad for tempo reasons. If we develop first, we have a clear advantage. From there, it's anyone's game but we should at worst find ourselves in good shape for the mid-game. E: If they instead go d4, which is another response to the scandinavian, we might threaten their queen a little? Bc4? A reason white would do this is to preserve the Bb5, but that still doesn't really gain white very much. Nice piece of fish fucked around with this message at 16:43 on Jul 12, 2017 |
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Jul 12, 2017 16:29
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Tell you what, let's make a total judgement on the capabilities of the white team based on the next move. This is the single most important move for that.
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Jul 12, 2017 16:39
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:Tell you what, let's make a total judgement on the capabilities of the white team based on the next move. This is the single most important move for that. Well, yes, next move is very significant to see what kind of player white is here. If they are out of balance due to our last move, they might elect caution which is great for us. If they go agressive... then I'm less sure of where we go, but there's an easy way towards an early mate if they invite a full exchange which even a castling won't defend.. We'll see.
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Jul 12, 2017 16:46
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Nice piece of fish posted:but there's an easy way towards an early mate if they invite a full exchange which even a castling won't defend.. We'll see. Elaborate on this. This is key information that we need to know and must act to prevent it immediately.
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Jul 12, 2017 17:01
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:Elaborate on this. This is key information that we need to know and must act to prevent it immediately. Chill. For us to put them in mate, Queen f2. That's many moves ahead and requires luck and a late castling. It's a response to their fielding their Queen, which we can counter due to our better developed board. Let's not waste time speculating 5-6 moves ahead though, and concentrate on the next. However, if anyone wants to suggest a strategy from where we are now, I'm all ears.
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Jul 12, 2017 17:09
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Nice piece of fish posted:Chill. For us to put them in mate, Queen f2. That's many moves ahead and requires luck and a late castling. It's a response to their fielding their Queen, which we can counter due to our better developed board. Let's not waste time speculating 5-6 moves ahead though, and concentrate on the next. However, if anyone wants to suggest a strategy from where we are now, I'm all ears. Oh, I misread that into thinking that we'd be the ones mated. I was about to declare our early loss, but thankfully it is instead a route to success! I've no ability to think beyond moving our pawn to set up the castle though.
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Jul 12, 2017 17:16
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I was out of town for the past couple days, didn't realize this would start up so fast. Anyway, we are waiting for their move now, and I don't have any input on our next move yet. I will say that I agree with the moves we have made so far, so had I been here, I would have voted for them anyway. So it all works out for me.
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Jul 12, 2017 17:37
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If you want a real clusterfuck - crowdsourced Carcassonne. 
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Jul 12, 2017 17:38
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5 threads (Plus observer) for Battlestar Galactica.
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Jul 12, 2017 17:40
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I'm still concerned about that bishop going Bb5+. Problem is, that's such an obvious move that White might realize that and do something else.
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Jul 12, 2017 18:30
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Snorb posted:I'm still concerned about that bishop going Bb5+. Problem is, that's such an obvious move that White might realize that and do something else. It's an agressive move that forces our hand, sure, and it's an invitation to make a mistake. On the other hand, they risk their bishop and we might be set to release our queen, second knight, second bishop and do a castling in very short order while they are on the back foot on development. If they do go Bb5, it's a confirmation of aggressive play. If they don't and play conservatively, that tells us that they want to play it safe and that they most likely are going to rely on our so-far unusual style of defence to get us into some trouble later on. There's really two responses to the scandinavian defence. Ignore and develop your pieces (conservative) or attack with an unsupported bishop (aggressive) or develop the knight - which they didn't go for. Next move will tell us a lot, but I don't think we can conclude anything based on the moves so far. Really, they may have taken our bait to bait out our queen, which would have been a mistake. If they've now realized that they don't really know our plan of defence, they might withdraw and play more conservatively. I'm hoping for this, but this is an LP and "gently caress it, let's do what's entertaining" is definitely a factor here that isn't an issue in most chess games. Nice piece of fish fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Jul 12, 2017 |
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Jul 12, 2017 18:42
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I'm simply following my soul rather than trying to entertain, and my soul thirsts for the blood of their pieces.
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Jul 12, 2017 18:45
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Out of curiosity, what would be the best response to Bb5+? Is it c6, or would that lead to too much of a bloodbath of pawns? (Assuming full bloodbath route, that would go something like 3.Bb5+ c6 4.dxc6 bxc6 5.Bxc6+ Nxc6, at at the end of it us being down three pawns in total to white's pawn and bishop, but with us having a big tempo advantage from our two developed knights versus their captured bishop. Wrecks our queenside pawns, though. But would White seek to save their bishop and avoid this? Then again, this all explains why Bb5+ would probably be a bad move anyway) Paul.Power fucked around with this message at 07:52 on Jul 13, 2017 |
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Jul 13, 2017 07:32
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Paul.Power posted:Out of curiosity, what would be the best response to Bb5+? Is it c6, or would that lead to too much of a bloodbath of pawns? They might take that trade as that sacrifices a pawn and a bishop for our three pawns and a bishop. I don't really want to make that trade. The bishop defence is probably the best option, though they might not trade and just back off. Bishop defence they pretty much gain nothing and we don't really lose tempo. Knight defence is also a possibility, while not directly threatening the bishop they might not want that trade as bad, though I'm ususally for trading a bishop for a knight. They are taking their time with it this time around though. They probably weren't anticipating our knight.
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Jul 13, 2017 09:53
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 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 3.d4 You have 24 hours to decide on a move.
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Jul 13, 2017 11:18
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Uh...okay I think they're going to try to check us with their bishop on F1 which means that we'll need to take the pawn on D5 if we want to keep it safe while not risking any pieces of our own. I...honestly have no idea why they decided to double move that pawn on at all-now we really have no reason not to take their pawn on D5 with our knight. Unless I'm really missing something?
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Jul 13, 2017 11:48
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I suggest Qxd5. And I vote that way. We may as well. E: Is there any reason why we shouldn't consider E6? Now Voting: Bg4 HerpicleOmnicron5 fucked around with this message at 16:52 on Jul 13, 2017 |
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Jul 13, 2017 12:09
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 Good. Good. Now we know two things. 1: White is overall going for caution. 2: White is not a stupid player. Of the responses to the Scandinavian defence, this is one of the good ones, sure. It preserves white's development without risking a scandinavian gambit, and in turn attempts a doble pawn gambit. However, their structure right now isn't ideal. We now have a chance to turn the table on white. If we start aggressive play now, we can put them off balance and gain some initiative while while developing our board. I suggest two moves for discussion, these are both based on grandmaster games where black won with this exact start: ONE posted:Aggression from black: TWO posted:Aggression from black. What do you guys think? Either way, I'd soon like to deploy our second knight and the king's bishop soon as, to open up for castling and putting some pressure on white. Nice piece of fish fucked around with this message at 12:33 on Jul 13, 2017 |
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Jul 13, 2017 12:26
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:I suggest Qxd5. And I vote that way. We may as well. Nah. I want to preserve our queen for when she can do some serious damage. D5 isn't fantastic as an offensive move for the queen. We should soon consider e6 so we can deploy our bishop. As you can tell, this opens our castle and makes it possible for us to check white. But I want that center. Or I want to pressure their queen, either get her out and chase her around the board, or force their hand on pawn placement. Dr. Snark posted:Uh...okay I think they're going to try to check us with their bishop on F1 which means that we'll need to take the pawn on D5 if we want to keep it safe while not risking any pieces of our own. You're not, really. It's a modern version of the scandinavian, but there's already been counters to this, see my post above. I agree that Nxd5 is a good move. Only, we should maybe also be considering putting even more pressure on white, now that we know that they want to tread lightly as their early aggression has now bought them little development for no real gain in position. Nice piece of fish fucked around with this message at 12:36 on Jul 13, 2017 |
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Jul 13, 2017 12:33
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I like both of these moves. I'll stay on Qxd5 to delay a majority, but I'll note that I prefer the Queen threat. Perhaps they'll willingly sacrifice it. We can then follow that with E6 to quickly develop out our blacksquare bishop to prepare the threat to the King. This is simply ridiculous. White keeps pushing pawn after pawn in the same general area for no true purpose. If our victory wasn't assured before, it is now.
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Jul 13, 2017 12:39
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:I like both of these moves. I'll stay on Qxd5 to delay a majority, but I'll note that I prefer the Queen threat. Perhaps they'll willingly sacrifice it. We can then follow that with E6 to quickly develop out our blacksquare bishop to prepare the threat to the King. No, see here's the thing. Look at the pin on d4. Let's say we take d5, they threaten our knight and we move. White's pawn now separates our queens. Now what happens if we g6 and Bg7? That's right, we now have a possible brute force entry into white's center, and they either pile their pieces in to defend or ultimately lose their queen. We can easily triple-threat d4 with the Nc6 then, so long as we don't move the queen yet. But let's not think that far ahead right now. For now, let's decide what we want to go for. Honestly, both my suggested moves have their merits. The unknown factor is how unsure white feels right about now. I noticed they took a lot of time deciding. Nice piece of fish fucked around with this message at 12:53 on Jul 13, 2017 |
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Jul 13, 2017 12:50
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Okay, I've mulled it over. I want to threaten them with the bishop. It's the bigger gamble, the more entertaining move, and hopefully will keep white on the back foot. I really hope they respond with f3 pawn, but no matter what, we can just accept the pin or retreat and then do Nxd5, losing us pretty much nothing, I like it. I want the initiative here. My vote is solidly on Bg4.
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Jul 13, 2017 13:09
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What do we do when/if they send their pawn to f3 should we go Bg4? Do we just move the bishop back a few spaces? Seems a bit of a waste but I'm not good at chess so I don't really know
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Jul 13, 2017 13:17
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It forces a crappy pawn out and lets us move the Bishop elsewhere essentially for free. We're trading an advantage now for an advantage later.
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Jul 13, 2017 13:37
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Bg4 sounds fun.Nice piece of fish posted:They might take that trade as that sacrifices a pawn and a bishop for our three pawns and a bishop. I don't really want to make that trade. Paul.Power fucked around with this message at 13:42 on Jul 13, 2017 |
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Jul 13, 2017 13:38
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I'm pretty OK with Bg4 but I'll listen to counter-arguments. One thing we need to be wary of is how much free reign their bishops have right now with their central pawns out of the way. Opening that up seems to be their goal with that d4 move just now; we should figure out why.
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Jul 13, 2017 14:01
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Paul.Power posted:Bg4 sounds fun. You're right, we don't necessarily, seeing as we'd still have had the knight to move. The worst part of that exchange would be the weakening of our flank, and the obvious checked fork that would have opened (c6 rook and king) for later, which even as a suicidal attack could deny us castling. Hopefully, we won't have to deal with that, since Bg4 is likely to force their hand. After that, if d5 pawn remains unsupported, I'd suggest either e6 or outright taking it with the knight. We'll see. oldskool posted:I'm pretty OK with Bg4 but I'll listen to counter-arguments. One thing we need to be wary of is how much free reign their bishops have right now with their central pawns out of the way. Opening that up seems to be their goal with that d4 move just now; we should figure out why. Well, it's the riskier move. We sacrifice taking their pawn and a strong position in the centre for allowing it to remain (it's the most useless piece they can have there anyway) in return for a strong initiative that white isn't prepared for at the moment. If they keep playing like they have been, they will be in a lot of trouble in short order. E: an added benefit is that we very likely won't be accused of cheating, as I'm pretty sure no chess computer would advise Bg4  It's a fun move though, and that probably doesn't compute very well. If, against all odds, they keep to the defence, our gamble may pay off big time.
Nice piece of fish fucked around with this message at 14:14 on Jul 13, 2017 |
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Jul 13, 2017 14:10
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Bg4 will also probably spook White, so I'm all for it.
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Jul 13, 2017 14:16
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oldskool posted:One thing we need to be wary of is how much free reign their bishops have right now with their central pawns out of the way. Opening that up seems to be their goal with that d4 move just now; we should figure out why. I see your point, but b bishop will not move while we're threatening their queen. F bishop might, but then we have a pin on their bishop while we e6 and get our party started. Maybe we go h5 and they can't get rid of us anymore on that side. Maybe we retreat and develop the other side. Meanwhile, they box in their queen and are ripe for our second bishop. Absolutely we should be careful about this, but I hope white's bishops are going to find themselves restricted from a lot of movement pretty soon.
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Jul 13, 2017 14:25
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UnderFreddy posted:What do we do when/if they send their pawn to f3 should we go Bg4? Do we just move the bishop back a few spaces? Seems a bit of a waste but I'm not good at chess so I don't really know Also I'd just like to clarify something here, got a bit lost in the words sorry: quote:Also, in the game this development happened, white was in mate in 13 moves.
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Jul 13, 2017 14:27
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