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Probably not the best idea; the fools mate is one of those strategies that either requires your opponent to try and give you checkmate or we have to stupidly lucky. While we can certainly question the intelligence of the other team as much as we want, odds are it ain't happening.
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Jul 10, 2017 19:51
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CirclMastr posted:Is there any reason to think they won't open with e4? Might as well talk about our response. The usual response to this is to double-move the opposing pawn to block theirs, and it's the move they do after that which will force us to start defining our strategy. At this stage there's not much else we can do aside from having some baseless speculation on their move after that.
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Jul 10, 2017 21:21
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:Can't we do a scandinavian defense against that move? Possibly, but that would rely on White moving their pawn in row D to pull that off. If they do end up doing that it's certainly an option.
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Jul 10, 2017 21:39
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Nice piece of fish posted:I disagree, but we should probably table that discussion for when the thread's decided on d5 or e5 (or some sort of whacky nonsense defence that my sense of competitiveness won't allow me to mention). We can pick it up again IF we go the scandinavian defence and IF white then takes our pawn. Pretty much this. Once the queen is in play, the other player tends to do everything in their power to either capture or nullify her. The trick is to play that to your advantage. Anyway, I do like the Scandinavian defense so Pawn to D5 it is.
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Jul 11, 2017 13:08
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Davin Valkri posted:Herp, your plan would send the queen gallivanting around the center while the knights and bishops stay stuck behind our pawns. Unacceptable. Pawn to e5. Er...supporting the Scandinavian Defense doesn't mean that we have to do that. There are plenty of other viable moves we can make from that position with our freed bishop and our knights. I agree that Herp's future plans are questionable, but right now this is a perfectly reasonable move. Don't discount it just because Herp suggested it, there's a saying about broken clocks and all that.
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Jul 11, 2017 15:49
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oldskool posted:We don't have to, but if we don't we're giving them a pawn for nothing. At which point they don't have to chase our queen around but considering that they can do so very easily without really sacrificing long-term layout (i.e. they aren't moving pieces into inconvenient locations) they'd be foolish not to. I think you misunderstood me, let me try this again. There are two outcomes to this scenario: 1. They take our pawn. 2. They do not and move another piece instead. If they do take our pawn, that's our chance to move out our Queen by taking the offending pawn, which would effectively lock down the middle of the board from its position. We could seriously gently caress with White if we play our cards right. If they don't we can just move out our bishop or knights like normal. Either way we'd be in a fairly good position.
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Jul 11, 2017 16:06
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poo poo, now I'm wondering what took White so long to decide on which pawn to move forwards. We ended up agreeing on the Scandi so quickly in comparison.
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Jul 11, 2017 18:03
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Well the problem in this case is that White has quite a few moves available to them. It would be nice if they took our pawn and completed our Scandie but odds are the better White team members will see how that's a bad idea and will move up another piece. So what's it going to be? -D pawn: A rather predictable move but a time-honored one that would free up both of White's bishops. -C Knight: Threaten our pawn and protect theirs at the same time, which would encourage us to move a piece to protect it or capture the opposing pawn in exchange for losing our own. -F Bishop: They could try to check us early to force us to move a piece, but this could easily be blocked by a pawn that would also reinforce our position. I think those three are the most likely moves we're going to be seeing from White.
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Jul 11, 2017 19:32
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Might as well complete our opening with Qxd5 if White is so willing to help us set it up.
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Jul 11, 2017 23:13
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It probably does make more sense for the knight to move, yeah. Knight to F6. At this point we can basically threaten White with breaking out the Queen if we really wanted to.
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Jul 12, 2017 01:40
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Uh...okay I think they're going to try to check us with their bishop on F1 which means that we'll need to take the pawn on D5 if we want to keep it safe while not risking any pieces of our own. I...honestly have no idea why they decided to double move that pawn on at all-now we really have no reason not to take their pawn on D5 with our knight. Unless I'm really missing something?
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Jul 13, 2017 11:48
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Bg4 will also probably spook White, so I'm all for it.
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Jul 13, 2017 14:16
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Knight to D7 is really the only viable move here. Moving our pawn to block would just result in trading pieces with White, and we don't want to lose our pressure on White's Queen with our bishop. White's hope may have been that we'd block with our bishop, but that's not going to happen... Dr. Snark fucked around with this message at 14:41 on Jul 14, 2017 |
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Jul 14, 2017 14:38
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So remember when I said knight to D7 was the only viable move right now? I lied. We could go Pawn to C6. Here's how that could play out: White takes the pawn with their own on D5, we move the queen to B5 placing their king in check. They block, presumably with their other bishop, and we take their bishop on white. Now the leftover pawn has two options: take another pawn and threaten our rook or move forward and threaten our knight. If it's the former we take it with our queen, and the turn after we might take White's pawn on G2 and possibly set up a plan to take their rook AND queen in one go. If they move forward with their pawn, we move out our knight to C6, threatening their other pawn at the center and letting the rook keep the pawn out of the back row. Depending on White's move we would move our rook to block their pawn from moving forward. Honestly...it'd force White into making predictable moves which is good. So I'm going to be crazy and vote for Pawn to C6.
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Jul 14, 2017 15:11
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Worth noting that the pawn to C6 strategy means that at worst we'd capture their bishop and their front-most pawn, all for the cost of a single one of our own pawns.
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Jul 14, 2017 16:55
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Nice piece of fish posted:Not necessarily, because the next move after c6 ought to be knight to c6. It's the "same" as Nbd7, except the corridor is kept free. We want to do this instead because we want our back field cleared for a potential castling. Why would we do that when we can go queen to B5, checking their king and guaranteeing that White would be unable to move their bishop and giving us a guaranteed capture with high potential for attacking their back row? Depending on how White moves in the future we could set up a situation where we could take out a rook or knight easily. Edit: I mean we seem to agree on the current move, it's more what's coming after that is worth talking about. Dr. Snark fucked around with this message at 17:13 on Jul 14, 2017 |
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Jul 14, 2017 17:09
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Nice piece of fish posted:Because queen to a5 (?) is easily blocked and invites a trade. Bishop to b4 and THEN queen to a5, though... Yes it is to A5. What I'm saying is that we aren't trying to attack White's row, but if their attacking bishop stays in the same position after this move (B5) our queen would be right next to it once it checks. Since White will have to block the check, our queen can easily take their bishop as it has no other pieces supporting it and anything White uses to block also wouldn't be able to support it.
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Jul 14, 2017 17:54
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Nxc6 just to be sure we have a majority.
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Jul 16, 2017 06:57
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Uh guys, you do realize that if we did Queen to D4 it would just get captured by their knight instead, right? Edit: Nevermind, forget that criticism, but it's still a very risky move to go for a queen trade.
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Jul 17, 2017 12:51
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:Qa5 forces them to waste a move either covering the King's rear end or moving it, guaranteeing that the Bishop doesn't get moved which lets us get rid of the pin on our knight. It's strictly a better move than Qd5. They could block with their knight and protect their bishop at the same time. I am in agreement that moving the queen is the right idea, I'm just not sure where specifically it should end up at.
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Jul 17, 2017 13:40
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Worth pointing out that White is almost guaranteed to king-side castle as soon as they can now that they've moved out their knight. In general I'd say that we've entered the "staring match" portion of the game; now we're waiting to see who will blink first as it were and go on a full offensive...
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Jul 17, 2017 15:50
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I have an idea: Let's tell that bishop pinning our knight to piss off with Pawn to A6. If we want to keep White from castling, putting one of their more valuable pieces at immediate risk would be the best way to do that. For an added bonus it would set up a decent defensive line in that area for our queen-side castle. Edit: If we're really lucky, they'll try to maintain the pin with the bishop by moving it to A4, in which case we can run the queen to A5 check but make sure that White is completely incapable of protecting their bishop in that situation.
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Jul 17, 2017 16:02
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Urgggh...dammitdammitdammit no matter what they do White's knight on B is in the perfect position to protect their bishop and let it continue the pin no matter what we do. All it has to do is go to C3 and it's keeping their bishop safe when it moves to A4. gently caress it, that route's not really a viable option. Changing my vote to Qd7.
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Jul 17, 2017 17:30
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:That's not true at all. After threatening with the queen and pushing the pawn forward, we create an extreme threat to both the bishop and the knight. Qd7 only pins the knight even more and threatens our Queen. Don't do Qd7. We'll lose. Qa5 genuinely is the only way! We really wouldn't threaten the knight at all; it'd be protected by the pawn at B2.
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Jul 17, 2017 17:52
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Paul.Power posted:Ooh. Yeah, that'd be a pretty good move to derail their (probable?) plans. Although yet again I'd like to see what other people think of it before I commit (sorry! But as you say, there's plenty of time). What fallout might result from something like this (other than losing a bishop, anyway)? Basically it'd signal that poo poo Has Gotten Real. Once that knight is taken it'll show White that we're ready to start playing hardball, and they'll most assuredly up their aggression at the same time. At the same time it negates one avenue of protection White has on their obnoxious center pawn, leaving only their queen to defend it. And thirdly, it'd either gently caress up White's king-side defenses if they want to castle or force their queen out of position. Anyway, it's actually probably the smartest move we can do right now, so Bxf3
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Jul 17, 2017 20:16
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Nice piece of fish posted:Good. We're not in a rush, and I'll change my vote if someone proposes a better move, but I see that knight coming now and we have precious few good moves to oppose it. Honestly the psych factor might be the biggest win here. No matter what they do we're loving up White's strategies something fierce with this move, and that's never a pleasant feeling in a chess game. Up until now both sides have had plans that have gone off fairly well and without too much fuss. This will be one hell of a slap to the face for White.
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Jul 17, 2017 20:38
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:You know what would be a slap? loving Qa5. Bxf3 is a bad move. It's really not. Fact of the matter is that the bishop in question has outlived his usefulness  now that the knight is in the way. Taking the knight not only removes an extremely useful piece from the board, but also fucks up White's defense even as they take our bishop.Qa5 really doesn't do that; White's move to protect their king by moving out a knight will also strengthen their defense and offense at the same time while putting our queen in a bad position.
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Jul 17, 2017 20:45
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Davin Valkri posted:Actually, come to think of it, may I formally propose Qb6? I imagine a kings-side castle looks rather less inviting when a queen is threatening to get all up in your business there. And if we can clear the pawn on d4 and get something to threaten f2, it becomes a mating threat. The pawn in the center blocks that angle of attack entirely and it's well protected enough that it'd be irrelevant. HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:You don't seem to get the point of a5: A5 forces Nc3, which gets pinned. This means we can get the bishop guaranteed. You know, the bishop that's pinning our knight. We free the pin, gain the centre all without losing material. It's the single best situation for us! Play it out, you'll see that I'm right. ...Herp. Nc3 would mean that the knight in question would protect their bishop. If we took their bishop at that point our queen would be dead dead dead. Even if we threatened it with our rightmost pawn it could just backstep to column a and still be protected by their bishop. It ain't happening.
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Jul 17, 2017 20:58
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:
Problem (and don't get me wrong I appreciate your reasoning): We've kinda sorta been banking on the whole queen side castle thing and if both pawns dash up like that it'd make that side more or less untenable for defending the king. Furthermore, we're putting in a lot of moves to negate the threat of one singular piece. By contrast, sacrificing our bishop which has already proven to be more or less ineffective at this point negates the threat of a knight in one move and fucks with White's long-term strategies much more. Your plan could work, but it'd rely on White making non-optimal moves and I'm of the mind that Bxf3 is the better play for the longer term.
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Jul 17, 2017 21:12
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:Okay, here are our unthreatened, unpinned board positions and moves: It's because that's false openness. Almost all of those moves you marked would result in us losing pieces to White. And for that matter no sane player would ever move a rook at this stage save for castling. Edit: ...Also you have an extra pawn on the right side. Are you serious. Dr. Snark fucked around with this message at 21:26 on Jul 17, 2017 |
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Jul 17, 2017 21:23
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chitoryu12 posted:So what happens if they just use their pawn to capture our bishop? Their kingside castling defense is hosed. Whether or not White considers that more valuable than getting their queen forced out is to be determined. As for moves we might want to look at Qb6 which would protect the threatened pieces in question. Another possibility is knight to D5 which would still gently caress with White trying to threaten our knight. HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:Wait, you made Bxf3 without noticing Qxf3 immediately after? Not me. I knew full well that was a possibility. Dr. Snark fucked around with this message at 14:11 on Jul 18, 2017 |
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Jul 18, 2017 14:08
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Y'know given how long White's taking to make their move I think we succeeded at freaking them out. Just saying...
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Jul 19, 2017 04:08
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AJ_Impy posted:I like Qxd4 here, puts us in a good central position. What traps am I missing? We underdefend our knight on c6 giving White a chance to ruin our back line by sacrificing their bishop to get the queen into the back. Now let's make something clear: odds are if White doesn't have a good enough opening or if a piece isn't threatened they're going to use their turn to castle their king. So keep that in mind for future moves.
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Jul 19, 2017 12:55
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Erring towards Qd5 on this one; it puts White in a bad position and forces them to make a suboptimal move no matter what. Edit:  Dr. Snark fucked around with this message at 16:03 on Jul 19, 2017 |
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Jul 19, 2017 15:40
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Okay, with the benefit of thinking it over more I'm erring towards Qd7. That being said I'm thinking a queenside castle is no longer a viable option given that their bishop could easily check our king, leading to a string of moves that would give White the tempo. We've got to get our bishop on black in play. I'm thinking that after Qd7 we go for Pe6 then Bb4; threatening the rook that they'll try to get out of the back row or get them to move their knight on c3 if they did so. If they try to go aggressive with their bishop on black to take our left knight it would suck but we could go Be7 and still get a relatively optimal trade. After that we can kingside castle and then we'd be in business. Odds are that White is either going to castle or go for the Kc6 move; either way it'll be a defensive set of moves that will let us set up our next attack. Dr. Snark fucked around with this message at 16:20 on Jul 19, 2017 |
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Jul 19, 2017 16:13
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Called it. Right then, I'm suggesting Pe6 so we can let our bishop out and get the chance to kingside castle.
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Jul 20, 2017 13:23
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:Nxd4. Seize the center immediately, threaten the queen, make sure they can't get that bloody rook out in the immediate future along with opening a path to the h2 pawn with our other knight allowing us to peel back their defenses over by where their king is at. We have no reason to castle yet because we have no target other than a single pawn on the d file. That's a bad idea; White would follow up with Bxd7, taking our queen and putting our king in check, meaning that we couldn't pull of a proper queen trade even if we wanted to. For all intents and purposes that knight is still pinned. Dr. Snark fucked around with this message at 13:29 on Jul 20, 2017 |
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Jul 20, 2017 13:27
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Just realized this: Pe6 would prevent White from going with Nc3 for the near future; with our bishop now in play White's not going to risk bringing out their knight now that we've demonstrated a willingness to sacrifice our bishops for them. Edit: Though looking at the fact that we're probably abandoning our plans to queenside castle, it might not be a bad idea to finally go Pa6. We can use White's intelligence against them; there's no way they would lose a move on Ba4. If they retreat their bishop, good. If they trade, then that sucks but at least we can finally put our queen in motion. Dr. Snark fucked around with this message at 13:50 on Jul 20, 2017 |
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Jul 20, 2017 13:42
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Yeah, let's go with Pe6.
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Jul 20, 2017 15:18
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| # ¿ May 10, 2024 11:43 |
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Nice piece of fish posted:Yes, like we're not wise to the fact that Herp is trying to make us lose. Er...correct me if I'm wrong but White letting lose their knight would be good for us because it'd be a waste of their time. We can either go Bb4 if they go Nc3 and tell them to piss off, or just let it stay there because their only other viable move would put the knight in a position to be captured by our front-most pawn. Anyway. We might want to consider falling for their bluff; Bb4 could prompt Bd2 on their part and we could go for a trade if we wanted to, and besides we want that bishop gone for our castle anyway. If we don't want to do that we could opt for some other move that currently escape me at the moment. Maybe we could sacrifice our front-most pawn to create an opening for our everything.
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Jul 24, 2017 16:28
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