Taear posted:

This is what someone on an anime board elsewhere said to me. It doesn't matter that it's "just a few times". One time is enough, especially with this particular thing.
The "what's happening to your penis" bit was so unnecessary. The other bits you can almost chalk up to being weird "different culture" jokes, but not that one.

cosmo321 posted:

I will agree that it wasn't really necessary, and the way it's presented is in poor taste.
However, I will make a counterpoint that in a show where these 12 year olds happily and knowingly goes on a suicide trip to witness and experience death and suffering the thing people loose their mind over is that they are beginning to be slightly sexually aware as soon-to-be-teenagers somewhat silly.

Cipher Pol 9 posted:

I won't make excuses for the author's festishes, those are blatant enough, but I do agree that it is silly that someone could watch a show where a girl bleeds from every orifice, has her arm swell up all gross-like, and nearly has that arm messily amuptated by a stone and think, "oh geez, I better not recommend this to anyone without warning them that they talk about dicks and show pee a couple times. Nobody wants to watch that." I completely understand that mentality given the puritan history of so many countries and the normalization of violence, but it is so dumb on its own.

Xy Hapu posted:

But the violence is part of the fetishism. Or is that the joke. I'm pretty sure the guy just cited the dick thing because that's way less uncomfortable to type out than "they make sure you understand that it's blood out of every orifice"

Someone needs to take a permaban for the team and post that page from the manga so no one is under any illusion of where the author's predilections lie and why certain things are the way they are

jng2058 posted:

But if the stuff from the manga didn't actually make it onto the screen, why does it matter? Death of the Author and all that. If I'm talking to a friend about the anime, what happened in the manga isn't really going to impact that conversation because frankly it's usually a hard enough sell to get people to watch anime in the first place, much less read manga.

I'm also curious about people's definitions here. When people talk about sexualization and fan service, I'm usually thinking about things like close up panty shots, big bouncing breasts, the seemingly obligatory beach or hot springs scene where all the female cast are shown with water just above their nipples, and so on. Things obviously meant to titillate without any particular significance to the story.

And maybe I've just gotten desensitized over the years, but I don't feel Made in Abyss was really doing that. The stuff with Riku analyzing Reg's penis was clearly intended as humor and not sexual, and if you don't think that twelve year olds aren't curious about stuff like that, you don't remember being twelve. It certainly wasn't shot in a way to make Reg a sex object. It even serves a story purpose because it highlights how, in the beginning, Riku doesn't consider Reg a person with feelings, but a device to be poked and prodded and taken apart if need be, which contrasts to where they are towards the end of the season where they're friends and companions instead of mistress and robot servant.

Likewise the "bleeding from every orifice" and the urination shots aren't done in way to make them appealing or sexual, they're in horrible moments that highlight, despite the show's usual cutesy demeanor, that what Riku and Reg are doing is incredibly dangerous and that even the slightest mistake can lead to dire consequences.

Even the bits with Riku walking around naked aren't particularly sexual, because no one reacts with "drat, you fine" or anything. Everyone else is embarrassed and like "get dressed you drat nudist!" Again, it's humor. Frankly the only thing overtly sexual that I noticed was that blink and you'll miss it shot of Riku tied up naked as punishment for not paying attention in class.

Which isn't to say that those things can't make someone uncomfortable even if they didn't make me so. Desensitization's a bitch sometimes, and stuff that makes me shrug might make you cringe. It is what it is.

The thing is there are so many shows that are so much more blatant about their fan service and their sexualization of their characters, even on shows that I enjoy like Miss Kobayashi's Dragon Maid, which is an otherwise charming little show that makes me sigh every time Lucoa shows up to traumatize Shouta with her huge breasts, that I have a hard time getting worked up over what we get in Made in Abyss.

But that may just be me.

My question, then, is what stuff in Made in Abyss (the anime only, please) are we talking about as "sexualization" and "fetishized" anyhow?

There Bias Two posted:

If it's not obvious to you, you're definitely very desensitized my friend.

Command Ant posted:

This description of me is untrue to the point of being slanderous.

jng2058 posted:

But if the stuff from the manga didn't actually make it onto the screen, why does it matter?

jng2058 posted:

My question, then, is what stuff in Made in Abyss (the anime only, please) are we talking about as "sexualization" and "fetishized" anyhow?

jng2058 posted:

.

Even the bits with Riku walking around naked aren't particularly sexual, because no one reacts with "drat, you fine" or anything. Everyone else is embarrassed and like "get dressed you drat nudist!" Again, it's humor. Frankly the only thing overtly sexual that I noticed was that blink and you'll miss it shot of Riku tied up naked as punishment for not paying attention in class.

ViggyNash posted:

Im getting annoyed by all these claims of the characters being ‘sexualized’. This isnt NGNL, stop treating it as such. There is a significant difference between a character being partially nude for narrative reasons, and being sexualized to satisfy audience fetishes.

Command Ant posted:

This description of me is untrue to the point of being slanderous.

Annointed posted:

I'd recommend Made in Abyss with those explicit scenes cut out.

I Love Annie May posted:

There is nothing offensive or sexualizing in Made in Abyss, what the hell are y'all talking about?

lollontee posted:

I dunno, I somehow getting the feeling that it's not just about the underaged in the staet of undress that are the issue here

Jeza posted:

And the award for "Funniest Scene" goes to...Pantyshot of child in agonising pain pissing self! COME ON UP HERE!!!

What was your inspiration behind such a deeply moving and narratively critical, yet also hilarious scene?

*author scoots across stage in tux with no pants or underwear, beating off and ejaculating over podium*

I Love Annie May posted:

If you felt unconfortable during that scene that's only your problem, not the author's.

There Bias Two posted:

No, you're wrong here.

There Bias Two posted:

Being desensitized to blatantly disgusting poo poo isn't some badge of honor.

I Love Annie May posted:

The real problem with Mineta isn't that he is a "pervert", on the contrary he is one of the "straightest" males in the story, but rather that his very reasonable desire to connect with the opposite gender even on a sexual level gets neglected by others, whether they are other characters in the manga or its readers, and he's basically left on his own to figure out these pulsions and desires without any kind of guidance. And when Mineta inevitably does something that can't be ignored by others anymore, instead of being understood and educated in managing his sexuality, he's scolded by his peers and superiors, while readers take their turns blaming him of the sin of being interested in the opposite gender. Then, when both the readers and the characters are done blowing off steam, they continue pretending that Mineta doesn't exist until he does something that can't be ignored again and the cycle continues.

In a just world, Mineta's friend and teachers would recognize his feelings as valid and natural, and they would help him find a way to express them without hurting or molesting others. Unfortunately, this world is anything but just, so people's reactions to Mineta shift between "boys will be boys" and "how dare you molest this defenseless girl" and a war rages between these two sides. Most goons end up choosing the latter because they feel ashamed of their sexuality and don't want to be ostracized by their liberal peers, so they think that the "respect women" side is the "correct" one. What they don't realize is that both points of view are just two sides of the same coin, a coin called "rape culture".

Jeza posted:

I Love Annie May posted:

If you felt unconfortable during that scene that's only your problem, not the author's. Also, it's definetly not ultimate proof that he's a pedophile.

Xy Hapu posted:

Why not just take 2 seconds to search the author's name and look at the MiA stuff he's drawn. Or just read the manga. He's free to draw what he wants but that doesn't change the reality that MiA has some pretty skeevy stuff in it, why can't we just accept that if a person who draws sexualized naked children has naked children in his work it's probably not because he thinks naked children are funny. Maybe there is a sliver of an argument here if the anime was in complete isolation, but it shares identical scenes with the manga that make the intent less ambiguous, and the author himself's leanings are abundantly clear. Why in the face of all evidence is this terrible discussion still happening

Xy Hapu posted:

Why not just take 2 seconds to search the author's name and look at the MiA stuff he's drawn. Or just read the manga. He's free to draw what he wants but that doesn't change the reality that MiA has some pretty skeevy stuff in it, why can't we just accept that if a person who draws sexualized naked children has naked children in his work it's probably not because he thinks naked children are funny. Maybe there is a sliver of an argument here if the anime was in complete isolation, but it shares identical scenes with the manga that make the intent less ambiguous, and the author himself's leanings are abundantly clear. Why in the face of all evidence is this terrible discussion still happening