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Pierzak
Oct 30, 2010
You go back for that lantern this instant. I'd like to see what you're doing.

(ed: Also, new update on previous page)

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rojovision
May 13, 2015

Don't tell anybody!

Pierzak posted:

You go back for that lantern this instant. I'd like to see what you're doing.

(ed: Also, new update on previous page)

It does seem like things are darker. I thought the basic light spell was the same as the torch, but perhaps not. If people are actually having a tougher time seeing things with the current light spell I'll go pick it up for the sake of watchability. Monday's episode is already recorded, so it'll have to happen after that.

Tax Refund
Apr 15, 2011

The IRS gave me a refund. I spent it on this SA account. What was I thinking?!
Notes for episode 7:

... none, since Rojo already wrote down on the map everything that I would have written down as notes. :-) (Like "Shrine in the NW corner of level 2", that sort of thing). Next time when we talk to the friendly inhabitants of level 2, I'm sure I'll have more notes.

And I'm not really having much trouble seeing, but maybe it's just that I routinely have the brightness turned way up on my monitor.

Maybe the light spell gets brighter as your casting skill goes up? This game has so much attention to detail in other parts that that wouldn't surprise me in the least.

Pierzak
Oct 30, 2010
IL spell is the same as a torch, but it's not the brightest level (for that you'd need VIL or a lantern)

Always used to piss me off because one particular useful light source is only torch-level.

Sunning
Sep 14, 2011
Nintendo Guru

rojogames posted:

It does seem like things are darker. I thought the basic light spell was the same as the torch, but perhaps not. If people are actually having a tougher time seeing things with the current light spell I'll go pick it up for the sake of watchability. Monday's episode is already recorded, so it'll have to happen after that.

There's a higher level light spell that should be as good as a lantern. However, the key rune is relatively late game.

Pierzak
Oct 30, 2010
Mundane Fighter playthrough continues to be simple & easy. The one thing I can only almost-trivialize are certain endgame assholes and good positioning takes care of that.

Also, ask me about murdering a bunch of guards, not taking their key, then locking myself up in a murderspace :suicide: and I left the moonstone at Shak's :downsgun:

rojovision
May 13, 2015

Don't tell anybody!


Episode 8 - Here Be Mountainfolk
We get to know the various Mountainfolk of the Abyss and check a look at a horde of treasure that we may revisit at a later time.

Tax Refund
Apr 15, 2011

The IRS gave me a refund. I spent it on this SA account. What was I thinking?!
Notes for episode 8:

pre:
Mountainfolk mines in SE have been invaded by a floating tentacle beast.
Mountainfolk get horribly offended if you call them a dwarf.
Sir Cabirus died in his sleep; some say he was poisoned.
Corby, who worked with Cabirus, says "I know he died of a broken spirit".
The eight talismans represent the eight Virtues.
Mountainman named Ironwit is looking for some blueprints that he lost years ago.
They may be in the SE part of his complex, or in the storeroom.
To get to the storeroom you'd have to fly. There's a flying potion in the spiral room.
The key to the spiral room is in the golden maze room; follow the golden path.
Spiral room has flying potion and poison potion. One is red and one is green. "Green is good. Red is rotten."
I thought I saw a secret door in the spiral room just past the second headless.

Pierzak
Oct 30, 2010
Something's been bugging me:

Why do you use vertical stretching (look at circles like inventory spaces), especially when your video's widescreen with black bars on the sides?

rojovision
May 13, 2015

Don't tell anybody!

Pierzak posted:

Something's been bugging me:

Why do you use vertical stretching (look at circles like inventory spaces), especially when your video's widescreen with black bars on the sides?

I've been playing with "keep aspect ratio" checked in the GOG graphics setup tool because I assumed that was the right setting to have. However, I see what you mean by the circles. I guess UU wasn't meant to run at a 4:3 aspect ratio? Let me know what you guys think I guess. Won't be able to change it for tomorrow, but we could switch it up moving forward.



Keep Aspect Ratio (what we've been using)





Don't Keep Aspect Ratio (possibly the correct aspect ratio?)






Added.

rojovision fucked around with this message at 05:28 on Aug 2, 2017

mauman
Jul 30, 2014

Whoever's got the biggest whiskers does the talking.
Oh man, this game.

Surprised I didn't see this LP earlier.

This should be a good trip through memory lane for me. :corsair:

Antistar01
Oct 20, 2013
I'm surprised I didn't notice those squished circles in the videos. That second image (Don't Keep Aspect Ratio) does look better. The rune tablets there are square now too.

Seyser Koze
Dec 15, 2013

Mucho Mucho
Nap Ghost
Oh cool. I never really got into Ultima, but I read that the Underworld games were sort of a prototype for the original System Shock, so I'll keep an eye on this.

Tax Refund
Apr 15, 2011

The IRS gave me a refund. I spent it on this SA account. What was I thinking?!
The sun icon for the sunlight spell also looks better in the Don't Keep Aspect Ratio. I wonder if the original game was designed for displays with non-square pixels, and that's why it looks squashed when Keep Aspect Ratio is chosen? Modern displays have pixels that are actually square in shape, but many older CRT displays had pixels whose shape was actually a rectangle, not a square. So if you wanted a circle to appear like an actual circle on the user's screen, your game had to draw it a little "squashed", i.e. you had to draw an oval for the user to see a circle. Hence why displaying that same image on a modern display makes it look like an oval, and you have to "stretch" the image to undo the deliberate "squashing" it was subjected to in the original program.

But the Avatar's icon on the paper-doll inventory screen looks a lot pudgier in Don't Keep Aspect Ratio mode. I think it's probably correct, given the circular circles and the square spell stones that you get, but that sure is going to take a little getting used to.

rojovision
May 13, 2015

Don't tell anybody!

Tax Refund posted:

The sun icon for the sunlight spell also looks better in the Don't Keep Aspect Ratio. I wonder if the original game was designed for displays with non-square pixels, and that's why it looks squashed when Keep Aspect Ratio is chosen? Modern displays have pixels that are actually square in shape, but many older CRT displays had pixels whose shape was actually a rectangle, not a square. So if you wanted a circle to appear like an actual circle on the user's screen, your game had to draw it a little "squashed", i.e. you had to draw an oval for the user to see a circle. Hence why displaying that same image on a modern display makes it look like an oval, and you have to "stretch" the image to undo the deliberate "squashing" it was subjected to in the original program.

But the Avatar's icon on the paper-doll inventory screen looks a lot pudgier in Don't Keep Aspect Ratio mode. I think it's probably correct, given the circular circles and the square spell stones that you get, but that sure is going to take a little getting used to.

I was doing some additional research and it looks like you're correct. The original game ran at 320x200 with non square pixels. That's an aspect ratio of 1.6 which looks right to me, given the amount of space the black bars take up in "don't keep aspect ratio" mode since 16:9 is 1.7777, repeating of course. Source (search for "aspect ratio").

rojovision fucked around with this message at 13:30 on Aug 2, 2017

POOL IS CLOSED
Jul 14, 2011

I'm just exploding with mackerel. This is the aji wo kutta of my discontent.
Pillbug
Huh. I hadn't noticed the squishiness at all either. The new setting does look better, though.

rojovision
May 13, 2015

Don't tell anybody!


Episode 9 - Room with a View
I'm sure Ironwit will make finding his blueprints worth our while. The 10 foot pole proves its quality.

Tax Refund
Apr 15, 2011

The IRS gave me a refund. I spent it on this SA account. What was I thinking?!
Notes for episode 9:

pre:
Mantra "Ra" to "see thy blows land with greater effectiveness." Unarmed? Attack?
Mantra "Un" to "make better deals." Charm.
Mantra "Hunn" to "better gauge the quality of a deal". Appraisal.

Remove Bet from a Resist Blows spell for better protection.

In a crystal ball on level 2, we saw a room with blue walls and a gold square on the floor.
On the gold square was a gray sphere, but there were also green worms in the room.
The thing I thought was a secret door was apparently just an artifact of the way the game renders corners, since I saw the same thing at just about every corner and not one of them actually had a secret door. So don't worry about it.

Antistar01
Oct 20, 2013
Man, I remember almost nothing that's happening in this game. I don't know if that's because I only played Ultima Underworld once over twenty years ago, or because I just missed that much stuff by virtue of being young and dumb.

CAPT. Rainbowbeard
Apr 5, 2012

My incredible goodposting transcends time and space but still it cannot transform the xbone into a good console.
Lipstick Apathy

Antistar01 posted:

Man, I remember almost nothing that's happening in this game. I don't know if that's because I only played Ultima Underworld once over twenty years ago, or because I just missed that much stuff by virtue of being young and dumb.

Same here. Probably both, you know? :v:

Tax Refund posted:

Notes for episode 9:

pre:
Mantra "Ra" to "see thy blows land with greater effectiveness." Unarmed? Attack?
Mantra "Un" to "make better deals." Charm.
Mantra "Hunn" to "better gauge the quality of a deal". Appraisal.

Remove Bet from a Resist Blows spell for better protection.

In a crystal ball on level 2, we saw a room with blue walls and a gold square on the floor.
On the gold square was a gray sphere, but there were also green worms in the room.

The thing I thought was a secret door was apparently just an artifact of the way the game renders corners, since I saw the same thing at just about every corner and not one of them actually had a secret door. So don't worry about it.

The runes are a language, so if you can figure out that adding/removing one changes the strength of a spell, logically the same should apply to other spells as long as you have the runes...

Tax Refund
Apr 15, 2011

The IRS gave me a refund. I spent it on this SA account. What was I thinking?!
Oh hey, I just noticed something about the mantras.

Summ Ra is the mantra that gives you two random attack skills, and Ra increases your specific Attack skill. I wonder if Summ would increase your Defense?

Om Cah is "mastery of practical skills". I wonder what chanting Om alone, or Cah alone, would do?
And Mu Ahm is mysterious arts. I wonder what Mu alone, or Ahm alone, would do?

turol
Jul 31, 2017
You're going to want that incense so you should go back and get it. In fact you want still more after that so keep an eye out.

You have been down to level 3, you found the staircase down shortly after entering level 2.

The thing in the crystal ball is on level 2 but actually getting there is not possible yet. There are at least three ways to do that. There might be a fourth but the thing that allows that might only be available in UW2.

Make item stashes on each level. DON'T just make one big stash somewhere, each level can only have a limited number of items. I'm not sure what exactly happens when you reach it but the game might pick some "nonessential" items to remove. I remember that some blood stains vanished at some point but might have been imagining it.

Don't bother carrying a bedroll or food, it's usually easy enough to just run back to your current stash. Also you can sleep with F10 I think, check your manual. You just might not recover quite as much HP/mana.

Gold is HEAVY, also leave most of it in your stash.

Tylana
May 5, 2011

Pillbug
Items placed where NPCs can roam will also be hovered up by them, IIRC.

rojovision
May 13, 2015

Don't tell anybody!

CAPT. Rainbowbeard posted:

Same here. Probably both, you know? :v:


The runes are a language, so if you can figure out that adding/removing one changes the strength of a spell, logically the same should apply to other spells as long as you have the runes...

Yes you can definitely figure out spells that way. The manual gives you most of them, though.


Tax Refund posted:

:words:

Oh hey, I just noticed something about the mantras.

Summ Ra is the mantra that gives you two random attack skills, and Ra increases your specific Attack skill. I wonder if Summ would increase your Defense?

Om Cah is "mastery of practical skills". I wonder what chanting Om alone, or Cah alone, would do?
And Mu Ahm is mysterious arts. I wonder what Mu alone, or Ahm alone, would do?

I was planning on starting at the shrine next time, so we can give it a shot for fun. Also adding stuff to the journal.

turol posted:

You're going to want that incense so you should go back and get it. In fact you want still more after that so keep an eye out.

You have been down to level 3, you found the staircase down shortly after entering level 2.

The thing in the crystal ball is on level 2 but actually getting there is not possible yet. There are at least three ways to do that. There might be a fourth but the thing that allows that might only be available in UW2.

Make item stashes on each level. DON'T just make one big stash somewhere, each level can only have a limited number of items. I'm not sure what exactly happens when you reach it but the game might pick some "nonessential" items to remove. I remember that some blood stains vanished at some point but might have been imagining it.

Don't bother carrying a bedroll or food, it's usually easy enough to just run back to your current stash. Also you can sleep with F10 I think, check your manual. You just might not recover quite as much HP/mana.

Gold is HEAVY, also leave most of it in your stash.

We'll definitely be creating multiple floors worth of stashes, so no worries there. We sort of already have. I'm going to keep the bedroll for convenience since it's not really that heavy. We won't be carrying any food pretty soon, maybe starting next episode depending on what our rune situation looks like. Besides, we've got that fishing pole we should try out for fun. You're certainly correct on gold. We'll start leaving some behind in stashes.

Tylana posted:

Items placed where NPCs can roam will also be hovered up by them, IIRC.

I haven't had that happen to me to the best of my knowledge, but we should be able to find plenty of options for stash locations that don't have any NPC traffic.

Tylana
May 5, 2011

Pillbug
It's something I remember being mentioned in reviews and stuff at the time. This LP is very interesting to me because I never played Underworld 1 for the weird reason that when I asked my Dad to get it for me (birthday or something) I got Underworld 2 which had come out without me knowing. I think I got the game a day before the PC gaming magazine with a review in it. And 2 was a much more guided experience, IIRC.

busb
Mar 19, 2009

Thorgie
Getting mad nostalgia and urge to play this again. drat you Ultima games!!!

Underworld 2 is pretty interesting in its way, and really is part of the Ultima 7 trilogy, but the atmosphere of the original is way better

busb fucked around with this message at 16:56 on Aug 4, 2017

Pierzak
Oct 30, 2010

busb posted:

Getting mad nostalgia and urge to play this again. drat you Ultima games!!!
Shut the gently caress up and fire up the dosbox

Mundane Fighter progress report: killed big bad, looking for a certain key, just realized I totally forgot major parts of how to get needed items the legit way.

Also, FML I realized that a magic-less playthrough of UU2 will not involve cheesing the game with gear enchanged up to Unsurpassed stats :(

Pierzak fucked around with this message at 16:21 on Aug 4, 2017

rojovision
May 13, 2015

Don't tell anybody!

Pierzak posted:

Shut the gently caress up and fire up the dosbox

Mundane Fighter progress report: killed big bad, looking for a certain key, just realized I totally forgot major parts of how to get needed items the legit way.

Also, FML I realized that a magic-less playthrough of UU2 will not involve cheesing the game with gear enchanged up to Unsurpassed stats :(

UU2 has some nice spells that UU lacks as I recall from seeing an LP of it awhile back. I'd kill for a repair spell in Stygian Abyss, but I don't think it exists.

rojovision
May 13, 2015

Don't tell anybody!
As a heads up I added a screenshot from the manual that shows each rune and its meaning for those who are interested. I also added a screen (spoiler tagged) from the quick reference card which lists all the spells from the manual for each circle. They're at the end of the screenshot comment which is just below the main post.

Old Grey Guy
Feb 12, 2014

Pierzak posted:

Something's been bugging me:

Why do you use vertical stretching (look at circles like inventory spaces), especially when your video's widescreen with black bars on the sides?

Those aren't circles, they're ovals. 4:3 is the correct aspect ratio for the game, it was the only one available at the time.

rojovision
May 13, 2015

Don't tell anybody!

Old Grey Guy posted:

Those aren't circles, they're ovals. 4:3 is the correct aspect ratio for the game, it was the only one available at the time.

Old displays also used non square pixels, so that's also a thing. I'm looking for some more confirmation in a couple places.

Since I don't want to be switching back and forth between aspect ratios, I'm going to hold off on the episode for today and release it tomorrow or Sunday after found out a bit more.

CirclMastr
Jul 4, 2010

Obviously you need to make the pixels 4:3 and the aspect ratio 1:1 :pseudo:

Antistar01
Oct 20, 2013
I usually download videos and watch them in MPC-HC rather than on youtube, so for the last episode I just stretched it out horizontally until the ovals were circles and the runes were squares. For what it's worth, it looked fine. I'd probably keep watching it that way even if you didn't end up recording it in the wider format.

Tax Refund
Apr 15, 2011

The IRS gave me a refund. I spent it on this SA account. What was I thinking?!

rojogames posted:

Old displays also used non square pixels, so that's also a thing. I'm looking for some more confirmation in a couple places.

Since I don't want to be switching back and forth between aspect ratios, I'm going to hold off on the episode for today and release it tomorrow or Sunday after found out a bit more.

http://wiki.ultimacodex.com/wiki/Ultima_Underworld_Internal_Formats says, "... the game used a 320x200 resolution with non-square pixels, so the aspect ratio needs to be corrected (multiplied by 4/3 in the perspective matrix) or the image will look squashed."

Old Grey Guy
Feb 12, 2014
Here's a scan of a bit of the drawn, printed map of level 1 that came with the game, compare that to the in-game map at a 4:3 ratio. Again, the game would fill out your screen, and that screen had a 4:3 ratio. The non-square pixels etc. all had the purpose of looking the way they should in that one available aspect ratio.

Note, for instance, that the hand-drawn compass is an actual oval like the one shown in the game.


rojovision
May 13, 2015

Don't tell anybody!

Old Grey Guy posted:

Here's a scan of a bit of the drawn, printed map of level 1 that came with the game, compare that to the in-game map at a 4:3 ratio. Again, the game would fill out your screen, and that screen had a 4:3 ratio. The non-square pixels etc. all had the purpose of looking the way they should in that one available aspect ratio.

Note, for instance, that the hand-drawn compass is an actual oval like the one shown in the game.






That gave me an idea. Look at this screenshot from what I believe is a scan of the original manual. It's clearly widescreen with circular circles. Source here, which has other documents for UU and many other games.

Tax Refund
Apr 15, 2011

The IRS gave me a refund. I spent it on this SA account. What was I thinking?!
I'd say that manual scan settles it. The "Don't Keep Aspect Ratio" setting will present the game the way it was supposed to appear when it was originally released, and I'll just have to get used to the Avatar's, well, avatar looking a bit chunkier than before. But the circles being actual circles will be nice.

rojovision
May 13, 2015

Don't tell anybody!
Read an interesting article about the resolution thing last night. The game undoubtedly ran at 320x200. However, I forgot that most old CRT monitors let you adjust the screen position & size manually via buttons on the chassis. The closest 4:3 VGA resolution was 320x240, meaning 40 rows of pixels were missing. Most people probably let the image stretch vertically to fill the screen rather than letterboxing it, which would result in the 4:3 look that I was originally using. However the game was probably intended to look as it does in the 16:10 ratio, as evidenced by the manual screen shot in my previous comment.

rojovision
May 13, 2015

Don't tell anybody!


Episode 10 - Never Threaten the Avatar
We move on to floor 3 for now and find ourselves in some sort of underground swamp. Also, we find a rude bandit which I think is a she but I definitely call a he.

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Old Grey Guy
Feb 12, 2014

rojogames posted:

Read an interesting article about the resolution thing last night. The game undoubtedly ran at 320x200. However, I forgot that most old CRT monitors let you adjust the screen position & size manually via buttons on the chassis. The closest 4:3 VGA resolution was 320x240, meaning 40 rows of pixels were missing. Most people probably let the image stretch vertically to fill the screen rather than letterboxing it, which would result in the 4:3 look that I was originally using. However the game was probably intended to look as it does in the 16:10 ratio, as evidenced by the manual screen shot in my previous comment.

Not quite. Home computer CRTs had a fixed aspect ratio of 4:3 like TVs, and anything they displayed was scaled and stretched to that aspect ratio precisely. People used the adjust buttons to get that ratio right, not for bending it to anything else. And, regardless of any choice of resolution, the end result in front of the user's eyes would always be a filled screen in a 4:3 ratio, with no letteraboxing, and there wouldn't be missing rows, either. (CRTs don't work that way, there's one cathode ray drawing on the screen from top to bottom filling the entire screen as it goes, it's an entirely different technology from modern flat screens with an entirely different behaviour.) Programmers new this very well, and whenever anyone chose resolutions like 320x200 it was absolutely clear that they would end up being stretched and bent into that one 4:3 aspect ratio. No matter what, the game was destined to appear in 4:3 in the user's eyes, and it was exactly that way that everyone played it. Back in the day, there was no widescreen outside of a cinema, and definitely none for home use CRTs. I remember it well as I've spent countless years of my working life (and playing computer games, too) in front of CRTs.

Still, it's your LP, I'm enjoying it and the way you handle the game, so go right ahead and don't let me stop you. :)


Tax Refund posted:

I'd say that manual scan settles it. The "Don't Keep Aspect Ratio" setting will present the game the way it was supposed to appear when it was originally released, and I'll just have to get used to the Avatar's, well, avatar looking a bit chunkier than before. But the circles being actual circles will be nice.

My scan is from the original, physical, printed map that came with the game. For everything else, see above.

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