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ElNarez posted:hey do y'all wanna read a hot take on the Dota 2 esports ecosystem and how TI is bad, actually? well too bad because here's just that I think pretty much everything in this article is true though, and the issues it presents are pretty well agreed upon even by Valve. The whole major/minor system was made to try and make things more equitable for the T2/T3 teams, but then all the T1 teams showed up to every event and absorbed all that prize money too. The reason behind roster locks/DPC distribution is to force team stability because without the artificial incentive, there's no reason not to shuffle teams as soon as you stop winning because TI is the only goal of any team. I posted before the supermajor about how the current roster lock system was bad because it prevented teams who were performing poorly from making changes by locking them out of TI. Team salaries are a joke with the exception of the absolute tippy top, and if a team isn't getting results they're not going to last. People wanted to remove tournament invites from teams who changed rosters and I said "no thats bad" because if a team is making a change, they're probably not doing well, and in addition to locking them out of DPC you've also now locked them out of a paycheck. Their new system is a lot better and addresses a lot of these issues, but the biggest issue of the player salary system is that the three best teams in the world can just vacuum up all the prize money and make the whole rest of the scene financially unstable.
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Aug 1, 2018 06:19
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should i sell the PA ultrarare now or might it rise in price. i checked last years slark ultrarare and it kept dropping and went from like 60 bucks to 10 now.
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Aug 1, 2018 11:31
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noxville (I think) projected gini coefficient onto the various esports scenes and dota is like third worst of 49 or something. Obviously an Inexact science but still, it sucks. Not likely to change though. I can’t see valve encouraging salaries or even significantly more level prize pools and the “market” isn’t gonna do it on its own
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Aug 1, 2018 12:44
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RazzleDazzleHour posted:I think pretty much everything in this article is true though, and the issues it presents are pretty well agreed upon even by Valve. The whole major/minor system was made to try and make things more equitable for the T2/T3 teams, but then all the T1 teams showed up to every event and absorbed all that prize money too. The reason behind roster locks/DPC distribution is to force team stability because without the artificial incentive, there's no reason not to shuffle teams as soon as you stop winning because TI is the only goal of any team. It's a pretty perceptive and well thought out article. For sure pretty much every issue they raise about TI is true. That being said, I think they have some misapprehensions about how effective earmarking cash for smaller tournaments will really be. It would need to be globally implemented to be fair, therefore take a significant chunk of change, and even still prizemoney is not an ideal way of "putting food on the table" for the most impoverished pros or whatever you want to call them. It creates a vicious feast and famine cycle and actually encourages roster swaps on probably an even worse scale than TI for the lower tiered teams. For stability in a scene, teams need salaries (something Overwatch recognised), and the fact of the matter is that the vast majority eSports teams/orgs are notoriously shoddy, held together by spit and prayers, and are not in a position to provide that. Sponsors don't just dodge T2 Peruvian teams because they aren't winning enough, it's because their "team" is generally an apartment in Lima run by a former pro/oil baron/internet cafe chain from their own pocket. Not only do sponsors prefer the stability of established orgs, who are connected and based in majority viewership countries, but they dodge the worst of embezzlement that is absolutely rife in anything eSports. While the problems are obvious, the situation is still the best it's ever been. Like 10 years ago, salaries hardly existed and prizepools were fractions of the current. Gaming is still a million miles away from being so well monetised that it can easily afford to support multiple pro teams per country comfortably enough to focus only on the game. It's not a process easily expedited with simple magic bullet solutions, but there is still progress. I never see it discussed but it's basically an unspoken thing in most eSports, which is that most successful players are the children of middle-class/wealthy families, simply because they have the safety net and indulgent parents who will support and fund them to pursue their videogame dreams. That is simply not a practical possibility for a lot of people. We only hear these win or don't eat stories from the fringes of the pro scene due to the globally competitive nature of eSports and a highly interconnected set of grassroots/national qualifiers which are all as accessible to viewers as any other tournament due to Twitch. They surely exist in any sport, but you just never hear about them.
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Aug 1, 2018 12:49
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It really seems like the best way to "make it" as a pro gamer is to be famous enough to show up and place well at some big tournaments and then make your money as a streamer.
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Aug 1, 2018 13:33
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suuma posted:It really seems like the best way to "make it" as a pro gamer is to be famous enough to show up and place well at some big tournaments and then make your money as a streamer. or get good and win TI
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Aug 1, 2018 13:42
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2ez4rtz
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Aug 1, 2018 13:44
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RTZ gonna get it this year. This is EG's patch
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Aug 1, 2018 14:12
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RisqueBarber posted:RTZ gonna get it this year. This is EG's patch lol no
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Aug 1, 2018 14:14
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RisqueBarber posted:RTZ gonna get it this year. This is EG's patch Grandgant at TI. Sumail back to dumpstering kids mid. s4 on the squad. It's all lining up baby.
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Aug 1, 2018 14:15
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Someone post secret backwards.gif
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Aug 1, 2018 14:22
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the year pyrion or kaci aren't at TI is the year I stop watching
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Aug 1, 2018 14:42
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Do LOL and OW have leagues in SEA and SA? I don't disagree with the overall intent of the article but the two examples are a bit forced - how much does a LOL player earn if they're part of a team that isn't in the LCS structure?
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Aug 1, 2018 14:55
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Where's the new thread?
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Aug 1, 2018 15:46
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Valve could do a thing where 20% of all in-game sales went towards a funding pool that was monthly 1/12th distributed into the top ~1500 players (by MMR) in each region. Give people steambux and then allow them some way to cash out if they can verify identity / have steamguard / do a penny confirmation deposit check. The (US) tax implications seem mildly complex, but just that. Globally it’s probably a mess. It would be cool and provide some consistent way to agnostically sponsor talent.
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Aug 1, 2018 16:16
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Martian Manfucker posted:the year pyrion or kaci aren't at TI is the year I stop watching Not emptyquoting
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Aug 1, 2018 16:16
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Drunk Canuck posted:Someone post secret backwards.gif 
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Aug 1, 2018 16:59
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DNK posted:Valve could do a thing where 20% of all in-game sales went towards a funding pool that was monthly 1/12th distributed into the top ~1500 players (by MMR) in each region. Give people steambux and then allow them some way to cash out if they can verify identity / have steamguard / do a penny confirmation deposit check. It's a fascinating idea to think about but it's probably unworkable on a number of levels. The best way to sponsor talent imo remains some kind of centrally managed, multi-tiered worldwide league system. National Amateur/Semi-Pro/Pro leagues with promotion/relegation, then the top tier national league can lead to qualification to regional tournaments. In the end, far more talent is 'lost' to the morass of a lacklustre national scene and a lack of recognition than pros living hand to mouth because their orgs won't pay them enough so they're forced to quit.
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Aug 1, 2018 17:10
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https://twitter.com/wykrhm/status/1024704897218883584?s=19 Odd they aren't doing the first showing at, yknow, the international 8
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Aug 1, 2018 18:22
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Odd that valve isn't the one announcing it
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Aug 1, 2018 18:25
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suuma posted:Odd that valve isn't the one announcing it Wyrkhm is valve though
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Aug 1, 2018 19:01
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Ah, it's not free. Well guess no point in playing it.
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Aug 1, 2018 19:06
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Zurreco posted:Where's the new thread? I'll make a new thread
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Aug 1, 2018 19:20
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Drunk Canuck posted:Ah, it's not free. Well guess no point in playing it. lmao its only 20 dollars
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Aug 1, 2018 19:20
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The REAL Goobusters posted:lmao its only 20 dollars Usually people don't like paying money to have trash dumped into their computer
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Aug 1, 2018 19:25
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Taffer posted:Usually people don't like paying money to have trash dumped into their computer *has a level 600 compendium*
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Aug 1, 2018 19:36
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I have the Valve Master Collection thanks the survey on this thread. Does it include Artifact? If so, yessssss.
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Aug 1, 2018 19:43
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turboraton posted:I have the Valve Master Collection thanks the survey on this thread. Does it include Artifact? If so, yessssss. I was just thinking this  e: apparently you can buy/trade the cards on the steam marketplace so if we do get it for free I wonder if the cards will be marked to prevent us from selling them, because I'm like 80% sure that I'd just sell all my good ones from the starter packs instantly. IcePhoenix fucked around with this message at 19:56 on Aug 1, 2018 |
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Aug 1, 2018 19:46
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turboraton posted:I have the Valve Master Collection thanks the survey on this thread. Does it include Artifact? If so, yessssss. same here and i hope so, it does say all current and future valve games, so I'd assume so?
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Aug 1, 2018 20:14
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The REAL Goobusters posted:I'll make a new thread just updated my google doc today after zurreco complained, but go for it if you want
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Aug 1, 2018 20:44
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Majuju posted:just updated my google doc today after zurreco complained, but go for it if you want word word, I just took what you had from this thread's op but updated it. I also am adding a few things like pictures, videos and team bios
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Aug 1, 2018 20:50
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turboraton posted:I have the Valve Master Collection thanks the survey on this thread. Does it include Artifact? If so, yessssss. I got one too and totally forgot about it. Let’s hope it works Thanks again survey guy
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Aug 1, 2018 21:03
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Ill probably play the poo poo out of Artifact
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Aug 1, 2018 21:27
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Only 20 dollars for a trading card game is about a 20 dollar overpay IMHO.
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Aug 1, 2018 21:35
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Drunk Canuck posted:Only 20 dollars for a trading card game is about a 20 dollar overpay IMHO. "What exactly does $19.99 get you? The game maker didn't answer this in its press release, so we reached out to Valve's Doug Lombardi, who broke down the exact package included in that cost: two pre-made "base" decks of 54 cards each ("5 heroes, 9 items, and 40 other cards") and 10 sealed packs of cards, which each include 12 random cards, one of which is guaranteed to be "rare." Additional 12-card packs will be sold directly by Valve at $2 a pop at launch." https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/08/valves-first-new-game-in-5-years-artifact-coming-in-november-starting-at-20/
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Aug 1, 2018 21:37
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Drunk Canuck posted:Only 20 dollars for a trading card game is about a 20 dollar overpay IMHO. You clearly never played Slay The Spire.
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Aug 1, 2018 21:51
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I'm already embarrassed by the amount of money I'm going to spend opening packs for this loving poo poo
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Aug 1, 2018 22:02
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Walh Hara posted:You clearly never played Slay The Spire. Slay the Spire is not a trading card game. You do not trade cards with others and it's single player.
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Aug 1, 2018 22:16
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I think instead of "what does 20$ get you" the question that needs to be asked is "how do you get more cards?" Shadowverse rules because the game bombards you with card packs and you can also craft individual cards without paying any real money. Artifact might have the ability to buy/sell individual cards, but those cards have to come from somewhere, and if the only reliable way to get more packs is to buy them for dollars then I'll probably pass. Back on the subject of player cash though. If the only real source of player income is tournament winnings, particularly TI winnings, then you would think that the market simply wouldn't be able to handle the sheer number of "professional" players trying to make it big. There's a reason the LoL and Overwatch tournaments don't have 50 teams, it's just not sustainable. In practice though, every year you're getting these low-performance teams putting up huge numbers at TI. DC wouldn't have been on anyone's list of the 12 beat teams, and then they pull second at TI. You might say that the current meritocracy situation is good because it allows these crazy upsets to happen, but I don't think the incredible team volatility that is a direct result of "don't win don't eat" benefits anyone. Team reshuffling works, and teams usually have the best results after a change. Because of that though, as soon as something goes wrong there's no reason not to jump ship for greener pastures, especially if winning is the only paycheck. Only within the last year have teams begun to show anything closely resembling long-term stability, and it's no surprise that it's two organizations who can provide for their players (Liquid and VP). There's no incentive to be loyal to a team aside from the threat of losing a TI spot due to the DPC. RazzleDazzleHour fucked around with this message at 22:27 on Aug 1, 2018 |
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Aug 1, 2018 22:25
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The REAL Goobusters posted:"What exactly does $19.99 get you? The game maker didn't answer this in its press release, so we reached out to Valve's Doug Lombardi, who broke down the exact package included in that cost: two pre-made "base" decks of 54 cards each ("5 heroes, 9 items, and 40 other cards") and 10 sealed packs of cards, which each include 12 random cards, one of which is guaranteed to be "rare." Additional 12-card packs will be sold directly by Valve at $2 a pop at launch." so artifact is just Richard Garfield doing MTG over again but for computers I guess, I'm cautiously interested
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Aug 1, 2018 22:27
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