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On the gay panic thing I thought Cheers did it fairly interestingly - Diane, to prove a point as she was sick of their bigotry about it, stated that there were two gay dudes in the bar, but kept who it was to herself to watch the other character's self-destruct over it, with all the characters thinking that it was the obvious two guys who were there together were the "offending" couple. However it turned out that the gay guys had actually hid themselves in the panicking crowd, and that they had not been suspected once. Making a good point about why stereotyping is harmful and counterproductive, and that homosexuals are just like everyone else?
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Jul 30, 2017 16:49
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Since people have mentioned the inverse before in this thread I think this is fair game - some of the satire in Rocko's Modern Life has actually aged fairly well. While some episodes are nowadays irrelevant due to things like cartoons being less censored and certain places getting rarer and rarer, or even just the tech leaving the portrayal behind, there was a fairly prescient subtle joke right in the second episode - The O-Town Minimall is right in the middle of O-Town National Forest - land that should be federally protected due to it's national park status. It seems in the world of Rocko, Conglom-O's lobbyists beat the government and now they can build wherever.
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Aug 4, 2017 05:19
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Solice Kirsk posted:Still one of the best jokes in any cartoon/tv show: I loved Rocko's outburst at Filbert at the end of that episode when finally arriving with his groceries in time for the big sale - only for the sale to end mid-scan because Filbert is a slow idiot. *starting calmly but getting increasingly tense*"Listen you... Since today began I've been run over, attacked by wild lobsters, nearly starved to death, had an encounter with an incredibly large woman, been threatened, almost lost my dog and still made it in time for your stupid sale! So, if you don't change that price back to $1.50, I'm going to do something NOT NICE!" I recently rewatched the first season of the show and I think that's one of Rocko's personal strengths - he's a complete milquetoast, life walks all over him and he lets it - insofar as it only affects his stuff or his money, things he really doesn't care about too much. However when his wellbeing or that of his friends is threatened you had better not be the antagtonist because while he has a very long fuse when it does run out his temper is violent and explosive. Hell, he even stands up for himself sometimes when his life isn't at risk, like in the Carnival episode where in his frustration with two of the games, he throws a ball hard enough to nuke the entire stand, although the obviously glued milkbottles are still standing afterwards, and drops a backhoe on the lever to launch a frog onto a lily pad as he isn't strong enough with the mallet. One last point - he obviously considers Mrs Bighead a good friend even if he never purposely interacts with her as such, as he notices the difficulties she's having with her distant husband, and warns him (after his incredibly mean remark: "You've seen my WIFE, in her BATHROOOOOBE!? Isn't it awful...  ") that he is very lucky that Mrs Bighead latched onto someone who wouldn't take advantage of her, and that he needs to start paying attention to her or he will lose her.
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Aug 4, 2017 05:53
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I think Zim has some humour that still works, mainly the absurd situations, like the members of the Irken Empire who's planet was turned into a giant weapon factory, so they intentionally make garbage weapons that serve no purpose like the giant robot that turns invisible - except the pilot can still be seen floating in midair, and it has a really short power cable that needs to be plugged in at all times.
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Aug 4, 2017 21:39
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I think looking back at it my favourite villain in Courage the Cowardly Dog was Katz, because he was unique. The other villains wanted something tangible and understandable: Money, Lasting power over someone, wanting the farm to flourish, even justice in some cases, but Katz as introduced in Katz Motel didn't give a gently caress. He was simply a psychopath who killed because he enjoyed killing. Stay at his motel, have a good nights sleep on the outskirts of nowhere, a pleasant if bare room - and get eaten by giant spiders. Courage, Muriel and Eustace were not Katz' first victims. They were just the only ones to survive the one character who simply killed for the pleasure of it. He only gained a motive after that episode - revenge against the family who escaped and humiliated him.
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Aug 4, 2017 21:55
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The main thing with Rugrats was that it had some potential for interesting characterisation, and some parts of it capitalised on it. Examples being the contrast between how some of the characters lived - Take Tommy Pickles, Chuckie Finster and Angelica, in order of age, and look at how their bedrooms are portrayed : Tommy is helpless, being less than a year old, or just over in the post-Dill episodes, his bedroom is a mess because he simply doesn't have the motor skills to pick up after himself (as far as his parents are aware), or the physical strength with some of his toys. Chuckie, being 2 years old for most of the show, is a Toddler. He can move on his own power, has developed a few motor skills and has an overdeveloped sense of responsibility. Possibly because his Dad's too busy to pick up after him every step of the way, Chuckie is relatively independent - his room is always tidy as he not only picks up after himself, he has developed systems based on shape and colour, like how he puts his blocks away by arranging them into a large organised, symmetrical cube-kind of structure, with the unusual pieces placed logically (Semicircles go inside arches, that kind of thing). The rest of this room follows the pattern as well, he nests his Teddybears all in one corner of the room, each of them protecting one thats one size smaller like a very soft Matryoshka doll. This means that Angelica, as the eldest of the children before Suzie shows up, has no excuse - her room is a tip partially because of her terrible parenting and personality - she never had to tidy up and doesn't bother to because she is a spoiled idiot child, and my least favourite character honestly. There is a similar contrast in the episode where they make their own home movies, also the best episode of the entire show due to this characterisation - the characters show their developmental stages through their art - Tommy is barely able to render abstract scribbles that only have rudimentary meaning (The squiggles representing him and his parents are inside a rough circle that represents his house, that kind of simplistic relationship) while Chuckie forgoes his fathers paperwork and instead neatly places a chalkboard on the easel to add his own stuff - clever decision as he is simply able to erase former images and redraw the new situations without making a mess, and his images have greater meaning - his images resemble people in some way, he has appropriate colours, and he understands the basic shapes that objects take although not yet grasping scale. Rugrats could have been much better than it was, and these aspects are why it was so disappointing to have characters who should be at the stage in their lives in which they constantly change, to remain as static as any teenage character would have been. BioEnchanted has a new favorite as of 18:49 on Aug 5, 2017 |
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Aug 5, 2017 18:46
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I liked the characterisation of Peter Prickly and Muriel Finster - Prickly was just like TJ when he was a kid, but eventually life caught up with him and he had to start taking himself more seriously, until he took it too far and became an rear end in a top hat, until he noticed what he'd became and dialled it back a bit. Muriel just got old and never really noticed until everything just gave out. Then bitterness set in, possibly as she saw her best friend get married and have a family and generally have a more fun life, while she ended up alone with nothing but her own regrets. Then her time babysitting Spinelli and as a result rekindling her old friendship with her mother let her see that it wasn't too late to still enjoy herself, although she still keeps up appearances at the school by remaining as grouchy as ever to retain the control that she has over the playground. I also liked the "twist" that Menlo and TJ used to be super close as kids, but then just grew into very different people - but TJ still goes over to Menlo's for his birthday as he still likes him on some level 
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Aug 5, 2017 19:11
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I think at least some of the episodes of Round the Twist may have been based of the books of Paul Jennings - at least the Gross-people-out-with-raisins-on-a-Flyswatter episode was one of the tricks that the character in those books went through
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Aug 5, 2017 19:27
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Also the Mrs Grotke(? The hippie teacher) going full ninja during the climax.
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Aug 5, 2017 19:58
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I think my favourite Recess episodes were: the one where the government outlaws Recess due to lobbyists or some poo poo, then the adults all realise that suddenly the kids are having trouble concentrating, formerly bright pupils are starting to fall behind - they're all burning out severely without any time to decompress. Then the government come up with a solution that hilariously reinvents the wheel - give the students 15 minutes in the morning and afternoon to leave the building and decompress, giving it an elaborate acronym that is literally R.E.C.E.S.S - they literally reinvent the wheel, but the pronunciation changes to "Reckess" in a hilariously absurd moment. The one where Prickly overhears TJ using the word "Whomps" and teams up with Miss Finster to try to outlaw it thinking it's a new swear - as soon as it's brought before the courtroom the judge hears the word himself, after being in the dark about the nature of the word for the entire episode, then bursts into laughter at the idiotic adults crowding his courtroom that day. dismissing the case with "What? It's a funny word! Any people who hear anything dirty in it probably simply has a dirty mind themselves." Also on the subject of Totally Spies I always enjoyed the joke with the U.P.W.A.T.I - every time the girls heard it they had hte same exchange, until the final time it appeared at which point they got to say the final line: "And finally, the UPWATI" "Up-what-i?" "Urgghhh... UnderWater Power Walking Apparatus That's Inconspicuous..." BioEnchanted has a new favorite as of 20:15 on Aug 5, 2017 |
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Aug 5, 2017 20:11
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I remember Disney Doug made weird changes to the characters, like suddenly Roger and his mother were loaded.
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Aug 6, 2017 07:07
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Spongebob should have had that episode, but to solve his problem he just has Patrick ring him out as most of the weight is absorbed sea water.
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Aug 6, 2017 12:16
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While the 2008 movie Igor has certainly aged visually, I still like it because it gave us this at the end: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFKQ-yxOKaM (Massive spoilers for 9 year old movie that was forgotten due to being only "OK") I still rewatch it occasionally because I like the characters. Also I'm OK with how it looks, it's stylised enough to get away with the rough edges in the animation.
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Aug 9, 2017 18:40
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It reminded me of when I was watching an episode of "Everybody Hates Chris" and the mother when faced with difficulties financially just sighs and says "I guess I'll just go down to the Job Centre and get myself a part time job..." Yeah. As if it's that easy nowadays...
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Aug 14, 2017 07:40
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Guy Mann posted:Look, I tried pointing out how silly things like complaining about Seinfeld not working if they had cell phones are but that ship has sailed so That ship has sailed so hard it lost half it's crew to Scylla, got caught up in a hurricane and got thrown straight into Charybdis.
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Aug 20, 2017 06:19
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On the other side of things, an episode that I really appreciated was the Christmas episode of Rocko's Modern Life in Season 2 (been watching through the old episodes recently so it's fresh in my mind) - it sets up the plot with Rocko holding a small get-together with his friends, but from Heifer's family onwards it triggers a massive chain invite, making the plot look like one of the most annoying party cliches - "The party goes out of control and trashes the house" - happily they avoid this cliche, by having Rocko notice a lot of people are calling him saying that they are looking forward to the party, and so he has plenty of advance warning to go and get supplies, setting up a really good party that can host the whole town. The plot goes in a completely different direction as Ed Bighead sabotages the party by spreading a nasty rumour, which was much more interesting.
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Aug 22, 2017 18:35
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Before moviechat ends, Shallow Hal was a weird loving movie. It's like it wanted to have a body-positive message about why it's wrong to make fun of people because of some physical abnormality, and the children's hospital twist was loving heartbreaking, then they also stuff it full of "Lol she's fat" jokes like her breaking furniture. I think it was trying to be positive about it, but seemed to want to have it's cake and eat it too.
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Sep 1, 2017 18:10
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Jack Black at least can be charming and funny as a person. I can see that being attractive I guess.
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Sep 1, 2017 22:59
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I feel that when Red Dwarf did it it was doing it ironically, but I'm not sure... Evil Rimmer was amazing though, and as far as I recall he was the only one who was like that.
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Sep 2, 2017 07:10
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Kinda reminds me of an... OK-to-middling movie that I watched a while back, It's a Boy/Girl thing (A body-swap/freaky friday kind of movie) which was really weird with that sort of thing - it had interesting ideas, like a scene where after something has gone awry the Basketball Star character is sulking in shame in the school basketball court sinking a few freethrows using the girls body, visual things like that, but there was a scene that almost went too far - after a major disagreement they try toward the middle of the movie to sabotage each other's lives, and his method involved a really skeevy plan where he takes her to a party with the intention of having sex with someone to make her look like a slut. However he realises just how profoundly hosed up that would be and gets out of there, which I think leads to the aforementioned basketball scene, which is him contemplating just how lovely a person he must be to even consider doing that. Edit: Also to get relevant to TV again, I just remembered about an old Sesame Street-type puppet program called "Hello Spencer!" which has one episode with a character who was a paper Chinese Dragon. He spoke in unironic "Ching chong" it was excruciating. BioEnchanted has a new favorite as of 19:12 on Sep 2, 2017 |
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Sep 2, 2017 18:50
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I think a concept that has aged poorly in particular is the concept of "Special episodes" about ~real life themes~ like sex/STDs and drugs and the like. It's interesting looking at recent things that were making fun of that whole era's attempt to boil a complex issue down into a child-friendly hour of boredom (and by child-friendly I mean something their parents won't whine about, no one gave a poo poo about how the actual kids felt...) like the internet show Don't Hug Me i'm Scared, that are coming out alongside modern cartoons like Star Vs or Steven Universe, which all tackle those kinds of abstractions. Star Vs has undertones about racism and historical revisionism via the Mewman-Monstrt war; Steven Universe has explored all kinds of taboo subjects like abusive relationships and emotional traumas of all kinds, and the treatment of insane people is also looked at in the characters reactions to the corrupted gems. These shows have taken things that would have been looked at in maybe a two-parter in an older show, but not drawing attention to them, just letting the characters flaws inform the mistakes that they make, which is much better storytelling.
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Sep 6, 2017 17:55
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Aesop Poprock posted:He could have resourced and adapted himself into being a cyborg or something cool as opposed to just the kid who's good at tools. The other aliens had to have thought he was such a loser Are you saying he's a C-Lister? Just because he has no powers, that makes him a C-Lister? Is BATMAN a C-Lister!?
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Sep 7, 2017 19:16
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On the subject of gay characters I always like when chemistry happens between non-gay characters, it's always hilarious. Watching Gotham Series 3 on Netflix and my god, the chemistry between Penguin and Nigma is astounding. They are the one couple on the show that I expect every scene with them together to end in a kiss and it's the one relationship that doesn't. Just moments like The aftermath of Butch's attempt to strangle Nigma are just so powerful, you can tell the actors are probably BFFs back stage.
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Sep 7, 2017 21:33
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The Skeleton King posted:I feel like that was the intent. Homer overreacting to Bart's antics and nearly killing him was supposed to be bizarre and over the top. I'm not sure it had anything to do with the times. I liked the one episode with the home-movie clip of Homer chasing Bart with a flail yelling "I'LL MACE YOU GOOD!" It was over the top enough to sell the joke IMO.
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Sep 8, 2017 08:35
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One thing that always annoys me is bully characters in shows where the main characters are ostensibly adults, because it's visiting a trope that just doesn't make sense in that age group. In a high-school situation, fine, but beyond that that poo poo does not fly at all. In situations like, say, Spongebob being bothered by Flats at Driving School (which I honestly don't mind as much as other situations because it had a funny payoff) or Leonard being threatened by his old bully in Big Bang Theory, it's ludicrous when they pretend that the character can't do anything because of being physically weak - when both people are over 18, Bullying goes from being dismissed as "Boys will be boys" to becoming Felony Assault with intent to harm. Spongebob's example is less annoying because while they contrive a reason that they won't help I think he calls the police, can't remember, but in Big Bang Theory it's like "Leonard... CALL THE POLICE ON THIS IDIOT! He is refusing to leave your apartment, and when you insisted he threatened you - that is at least a felony and misdeneanor right there." This isn't like when the apartment got robbed, here they have a suspect due to the nature of the crime. Calling a stronger adult is not weakness. Outside of prison, snitches to not get stitches, they get poo poo done!
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Sep 18, 2017 05:23
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Honestly the Flanders family and the Lovejoys are great examples of being "Good" in a christian sense turning people into terrible people - the Lovejoys are overly judgemental hypocrites with Helen being an utterly unlikable harpy, and even the Reverend thinks Flanders is an rear end in a top hat. Flanders is the kind of man at this point who is a (bad) christian first and a father second, if Rod or Todd ever did develop in a way that wasn't strictly adhering to heteronormativity Ned would totally make things worse.
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Sep 18, 2017 07:31
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The Bloop posted:I think the crassening of the Simpsons was part of its downfall too. Once they showed Ned's doodle on TV it was the end of an era. That's also out of character for Ned, there was an episode that established that he bathes in his swimming trunks so that he can't see his own giblets. Which can't be hygenic.
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Sep 18, 2017 18:58
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I liked that in Season 2 Walter's Laundered Money explanation to his wife became literally a Fairly OddParents joke with the crowdfunding scam. "Where'd you get millions of pounds Walter?" "uuuuhhhh... Internet?"
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Sep 29, 2017 17:00
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RareAcumen posted:Personally, I always put it down to Walter being the protagonist. If the show had been from Skyler's perspective I imagine that the reaction would've been the reverse as we see her trying to get ahold of her husband multiple times over and over throughout the day and getting more frazzled as he starts getting more and more closed off from her as well. It's kind of like Dory from the Nemo movies - in the first one her scatterbrained nature can be a bit irritating at times, with her constantly getting in the way and being a source of frustration - however in the second movie we see what it's like from her perspective, so the frustration comes across in a different way. It goes from "Dory! What the hell! What do you do?  " to "Oooh, Dory you were so close to a thing before it triggered again at the worst possible time... Sorry. "
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Sep 29, 2017 17:41
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On the Drink Driving PSAs I think this one's my favourite - simple idea but interestingly executed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwHoOJazEMQ
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Oct 3, 2017 22:16
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Speaking about Stephen King - I liked Rose Red, and the Prequel movie "The Diary of Ellen Rimbauer". Ellen was a cool character, and her BFF Sukeena was one of the least cringeworthy black characters he wrote because she just spoke with a soft afrikaans cadence. She was a midwife for Ellen when she was giving birth on an expedition in Africa, and they became best friends and Sukeena came back to England to help Ellen plan the titular house. While considered by many to be a servant due to the time period, Ellen considered her to be a friend, and eventually referred to her as her sister.
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Oct 5, 2017 22:51
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I got sod but I'm not a sodder...
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Oct 6, 2017 18:22
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If I'm allowed to contextualise an episode that I liked from a show that has aged somewhat poorly (in a lot of respects but it still has it's charms) I'd like to say that the Tale of Apartment 214 (from Are You Afraid of the Dark) has actually aged fairly well for a show that is fairly hokey in restrospect, entirely for the way it's plot flows, because while it's a ghost story, it isn't a monster-of-the-week story. The story starts off like normal, with Stacey moving into a fairly standard apartment in a new neighbourhood, has trouble making friends at school, that old chestnut. She ends up befriending the neighbour in room 214, a painter known as Madeline, and they start hanging out a lot as they are the only friends each other has. Madeline tells Stacey stories of her youth, shows her her paintings, Stacey genuinely is into hanging out with Madeline which is already a nice change from the usual "Kid stuck hanging out with stuffy adult" trope. However, one day Madeline asks something of Stacey, just a little thing - make sure to come over tomorrow, because that is a day that Madeline cannot stand to be alone. Stacey promises, but after school a girl asks her to do something with her, and overjoyed at finally making a new friend at school Stacey agrees, completely forgetting about Madeline. The next day she goes round to Maddy's apartment feeling kind of lovely, but cannot find her. Then late at night, she hears crying from her apartment and goes to investigate, only to find Madeline seriously upset with her, raising her voice to her for the first and only time in the whole episode because she broke her promise, although she's too upset to elucidate so she ends up scaring Stacey off. The part where it gets interesting is that Stacey returns to the apartment a bit later to find Madeline in a more.. talkative mood and finds out from her that the reason she hates being alone that day is because that was the loneliest day of her life - the day she died. No one came to visit that day, it was just her in her bed, no company and no comfort, so she finds it really hard to be alone that day. When she finds out why she was blown off, she realises that she can't begrudge Stacey having friends among the living, and apologises for her outburst. After a few days thought, Stacey finds a solution that makes everyone happy - she talks her mother into renting room 214 instead, which the Landlord happily gives them at a discounted rate because no one has rented that apartment in years (he knows why, he knows about Madeline and so knows exactly what prompted the decision). This means that Madeline will never be left alone again, Stacey can hang out with her living friends gulit free and the landlord finally gets to offload that bloody room to someone. Overall it's a really sweet finale, and probably my favourite episode. Sardo the magician is a great character too, but Madeline is my favourite overall. She has the most story. No one gets scared off or exorcised, it's just happily ever after and I love that.
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Oct 9, 2017 21:54
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I always felt it had strong concepts even when the execution was subpar. The ghost in the swimming pool hosed me up as a kid, it was all matted red hair and looked just awful (in a good way), and there was a cool episode with a girl who sucks at chemistry meeting a ghost who did the same 30 years earlier, who died during a practical test because the teacher failed to notice that the equipment was incredibly faulty. It's got a strong theme of history repeating itself as the "modern" (90s) girl almost dies the same way.
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Oct 9, 2017 22:07
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Oh please, Shyamalan was totally a Goosebumps kid, I bet his parents never let him watch Are You Afraid of the Dark until he was 35. although if that's true that's a cute story. BioEnchanted has a new favorite as of 22:46 on Oct 9, 2017 |
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Oct 9, 2017 22:42
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There was also that sitcom/talkshow combo the Kumars at No 42. I remember it being amusing.
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Oct 16, 2017 23:03
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dirksteadfast posted:While it clashes with both the original intent and the actual plot, I always love when they just make the Daleks silly and adorable. They really could have improved them by downgrading their importance from "pee your pants terrifying" to "really? these guys again?" I liked the episode where the Daleks and Cybermen are initially working together but inevitably betray each other: "You would declare war on the Cybermen?  ""THIS IS NOT WAR! THIS IS PEST CONTROL!  "
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Oct 22, 2017 22:23
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Pocket Billiards posted:Season 3 is hard to beat. It has the episodes with the body swap, marooned on an asteroid, alien that feeds on negative emotions and the backward universe earth. Using these fantastic sci-fi situations for what's mostly clash of personality humour. Loved Backwards for the manager's rant: "Now I'm not yelling at you, and I'm not yelling at you, I'm yelling at the sad bastard in his living room who's going to bother reversing this scene to see what I'm actually saying!"
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Oct 23, 2017 04:45
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Len posted:one drawing based. Holy poo poo, Takato in Digimon Tamers was just playing by the wrong franchises rules... (his digivice made Guilmon by scanning a notebook that Takato was making Digimon fanart in. I always liked that Guilmon was not a "natural" digimon, it added a reason that their bond was different to the others - he was literally part of Takato from the beginning.)
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Oct 29, 2017 11:37
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It's aged so poorly that it now concerns Harvey Yoghurt.
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Nov 6, 2017 06:18
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