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Friendly reminder that Catalonia's big thing is FYGM secession from the rest of Spain, so who gives a poo poo what those goobers want.
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Aug 5, 2017 14:45
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Horseshoe theory posted:Friendly reminder that Catalonia's big thing is FYGM secession from the rest of Spain, so who gives a poo poo what those goobers want. Also basques too
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Aug 5, 2017 14:48
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logikv9 posted:i don't know how much of their economy is tied up in tourism but i don't see how visitors for parts of the year are ruining their lives Dutch disease. Foreign currency flows into a region making domestic products uncompetitive. The price of consumer goods and real estate increases but the returns aren't distributed equally. Someone could see their standard of living decrease even though the economy is nominally healthy.
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Aug 5, 2017 14:49
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Dmitri-9 posted:Someone could see their standard of living decrease even though the economy is nominally healthy. 21st century.txt?
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Aug 5, 2017 14:53
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Maybe the solution is to rename nice US cities like Detroit and Camden to Barcelona?
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Aug 5, 2017 14:55
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Protesting against tourism in Spain makes about as much sense as protesting the weather. You would literally have to leave the EU and enforce harsh immigration restrictions to prevent it. It's not a real issue.
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Aug 5, 2017 15:02
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it's not real complicated. tourism stimulates growth in industries that exploit their workers and offer stable, lucrative returns only for capitalists and the higher levels of on-site management. the proceeds of tourism only ever concentrate in those few hands, while the wider community gets scraps in the form of food service, room service and (realistically) prostitution income. the greater tourism's share in the local economy, the more powerful those few hands become, which shapes how the community develops from there: civic funds will go to infrastructure for the tourist-heavy areas long before it goes to wherever the locals live, always with the pretext that 'our economy relies on keeping the tourists happy and comfortable'. someone brought up Myrtle Beach in South Carolina, but an even better example is Mexico's coastal tourist towns, heavily and deliberately subsidized by the central government from the 50s onwards, which effectively evolved into paired communities divided by huge wealth imbalances: glittering resort areas for the foreigners, while the people who served them in the hotels, cafes and resorts lived in slums with open sewage lines. a tourism economy necessarily requires a heavy servant element, and capitalism necessarily immiserates and degrades the lives of those servants to increase the profitability of tourist-catering enterprises
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Aug 5, 2017 15:04
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Thug Lessons posted:Protesting against tourism in Spain makes about as much sense as protesting the weather. You would literally have to leave the EU and enforce harsh immigration restrictions to prevent it. It's not a real issue. Tourists are selfish for visiting a place with mediterranean climate instead of Finland.
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Aug 5, 2017 15:07
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zeal posted:it's not real complicated. tourism stimulates growth in industries that exploit their workers and offer stable, lucrative returns only for capitalists and the higher levels of on-site management. the proceeds of tourism only ever concentrate in those few hands, while the wider community gets scraps in the form of food service, room service and (realistically) prostitution income. the greater tourism's share in the local economy, the more powerful those few hands become, which shapes how the community develops from there: civic funds will go to infrastructure for the tourist-heavy areas long before it goes to wherever the locals live, always with the pretext that 'our economy relies on keeping the tourists happy and comfortable'. someone brought up Myrtle Beach in South Carolina, but an even better example is Mexico's coastal tourist towns, heavily and deliberately subsidized by the central government from the 50s onwards, which effectively evolved into paired communities divided by huge wealth imbalances: glittering resort areas for the foreigners, while the people who served them in the hotels, cafes and resorts lived in slums with open sewage lines. a tourism economy necessarily requires a heavy servant element, and capitalism necessarily immiserates and degrades the lives of those servants to increase the profitability of tourist-catering enterprises sounds like they should be protesting against capitalism, or at the very least the government that facilitates it
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Aug 5, 2017 15:12
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puncturing tires while asking them to leave seems counter-productive
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Aug 5, 2017 15:12
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Badger of Basra posted:sounds like they should be protesting against capitalism, or at the very least the government that facilitates it they are. they're telling the tourists to go home
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Aug 5, 2017 15:12
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zeal posted:they are. they're telling the tourists to go home Threatening tourists isn't going to stop capitalism, it's just going to give the government casus belli for harsh crackdowns in order to protect their interests...? 
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Aug 5, 2017 15:19
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zeal posted:they are. they're telling the tourists to go home 
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Aug 5, 2017 15:21
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Badger of Basra posted:sounds like they should be protesting against capitalism, or at the very least the government that facilitates it seize the means of production? no comrade, the only way is to truly resist capitalism is to destroy the means of production
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Aug 5, 2017 15:23
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safely sodomized posted:seize the means of production? no comrade, the only way is to truly resist capitalism is to destroy the means of production Luddites weren't wrong.
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Aug 5, 2017 15:25
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safely sodomized posted:seize the means of production? no comrade, the only way is to truly resist capitalism is to destroy the means of production Yeah, who's ever heard of workers sabatoging their business to get something from their owners?
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Aug 5, 2017 15:54
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logikv9 posted:i don't know how much of their economy is tied up in tourism but i don't see how visitors for parts of the year are ruining their lives
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Aug 5, 2017 15:57
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just lol if you don't go full Fidel Castro when playing Tropico
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Aug 5, 2017 16:06
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Pluskut Tukker posted:Tourism amounts to 12% of the city's GDP. By way of comparison, NYC, a city of 8.5 million inhabitants, received ~58 million visitors last year. Barcelona, a city of 1.6 million people, received around 32 million visitors, with 8+ million staying overnight.That's a lot of people walking around with wheeled suitcases, going out until all hours of the night and making noise keeping people awake. It's also a lot of people staying at apartments that have effectively been turned into AirBnB hotels, driving up the price of housing where it becomes unaffordable for people from Barcelona itself. I was listening to a BBC podcast about this earlier this year and they talked about a bunch of people buying House's to rent out through Airbnb to get around hotel laws. Also their mayor is pretty cool
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Aug 5, 2017 16:12
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:just lol if you don't go full Fidel Castro when playing Tropico Accurately, tourism is a good way to employ a bunch of your citizens in low-paying demeaning jobs requiring no education while pandering to obnoxious foreigners, as long as you keep them away from the slums and tin shacks the staff live in.
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Aug 5, 2017 16:28
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safely sodomized posted:drunk brits are worse than aussies sober Americans are truly the worst people on earth
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Aug 5, 2017 17:33
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Florida's entire economy is based on tourism (the part that isn't caring for dying olds that is) and it means the entire state is essentially a rat trap created to suck as much money out of visitors as possible. Obviously it's not healthy and makes the life of the average citizen suck because their lives are dictated by laws written to gently caress with tourists. The money doesn't get passed along to the average person either as the state has one of the highest disparities between living coast and income in the country.
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Aug 5, 2017 17:47
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I choose to believe that the descriptions of Florida in Carl Hiaasen's novels are completely factual, and therefore have no idea why anyone would want to visit the place.
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Aug 5, 2017 18:20
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We should bring back Franco to cure tourism.
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Aug 5, 2017 18:24
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loving lol yes attack the tourists who can't easily escape you by virtue of being tourists instead of the capitalist vultures exploiting both tourists and the locals christ
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Aug 5, 2017 19:07
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:just lol if you don't go full Fidel Castro when playing Tropico is the joke that fidel castro used tourism to sustain a socialist economy e: or at the very least a "socialist" economy if you want to have an argument about whether cuba is socialist, i can't keep up with that
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Aug 5, 2017 19:35
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castro was not fond of tourism, limiting it heavily until the USSR collapsed and Cuba was in need for hard cash. he associated it with the prerevolutionary period where tourism was run by the american mob and Cuba was seen as an especially hedonistic destination for americans and sex tourism was rampant. the more long term opposition to it was more of a nationalistic thing than socialist imo
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Aug 5, 2017 19:41
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Badger of Basra posted:sounds like they should be protesting against capitalism, or at the very least the government that facilitates it it's easier to hate foreigners though
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Aug 5, 2017 19:42
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I went to Barcelona last march and every restaurant, museum and other attractions were pricier the gently caress out more than any place I visited except for Paris and by that alone I reconsidered my views on how Francisco Franco treated them during the Spanish Civil WAr
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Aug 5, 2017 19:49
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spud posted:If you can visit Barcelona and go and see the Sagrada Família, then please do. I visted it about 10 years ago, and it was beautiful even then. 15 loving euros for the basic ticket and the drat thing isn't even completely finished!!!
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Aug 5, 2017 19:53
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Plutonis posted:I went to Barcelona last march and every restaurant, museum and other attractions were pricier the gently caress out more than any place I visited except for Paris and by that alone I reconsidered my views on how Francisco Franco treated them during the Spanish Civil WAr go back to where you came from, tourist scum
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Aug 5, 2017 19:54
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Whorelord posted:sober Americans are truly the worst people on earth This is true, but we make up for it by being cool drunks.
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Aug 5, 2017 19:55
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safely sodomized posted:castro was not fond of tourism, limiting it heavily until the USSR collapsed and Cuba was in need for hard cash. he associated it with the prerevolutionary period where tourism was run by the american mob and Cuba was seen as an especially hedonistic destination for americans and sex tourism was rampant. the more long term opposition to it was more of a nationalistic thing than socialist imo Honestly Cuba has more right to complain than these guys
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Aug 5, 2017 20:22
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safely sodomized posted:indeed, what tourism needs is to be even more limited to the rich The job of the government of Barcelona is to act in the best interest of its citizens. A freaking high tax on tourists limits tourism (good for its citizens) while raising revenue (good for its citizens). If there are issues with tourism as a concept or with fairness in the world that's somebody else's problem.
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Aug 5, 2017 20:29
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safely sodomized posted:castro was not fond of tourism, limiting it heavily until the USSR collapsed and Cuba was in need for hard cash. he associated it with the prerevolutionary period where tourism was run by the american mob and Cuba was seen as an especially hedonistic destination for americans and sex tourism was rampant. the more long term opposition to it was more of a nationalistic thing than socialist imo That's everywhere in the Third World, if you go to any beach here in Northeast Brazil you'll find a great number of schlubby europeans or americans alongside a prostitute that is very likely to be underage
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Aug 5, 2017 20:34
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poty posted:The job of the government of Barcelona is to act in the best interest of its citizens. A freaking high tax on tourists limits tourism (good for its citizens) while raising revenue (good for its citizens). You're never going to have a tourism tax that accomplishes both of those goals. Unless the fee is something absurd like €5000 you're not going to equal the tax revenue that comes from tourism in the form of direct sales tax, income tax on tourism-related workers, and corporate/property taxes from tourism businesses.
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Aug 5, 2017 20:34
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Thug Lessons posted:You're never going to have a tourism tax that accomplishes both of those goals. Unless the fee is something absurd like €5000 you're not going to equal the tax revenue that comes from tourism in the form of direct sales tax, income tax on tourism-related workers, and corporate/property taxes from tourism businesses. I was proposing 20 euros per adult per night but I'm ok with 50 too
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Aug 5, 2017 20:40
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poty posted:I was proposing 20 euros per adult per night but I'm ok with 50 too The euro value isn't the point. You're fooling yourself if you think any tax on tourism is going to increase municipal revenue while simultaneously reducing tourism.
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Aug 5, 2017 20:43
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Plutonis posted:That's everywhere in the Third World, if you go to any beach here in Northeast Brazil you'll find a great number of schlubby europeans or americans alongside a prostitute that is very likely to be underage 
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Aug 5, 2017 20:43
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Plutonis posted:I went to Barcelona last march and every restaurant, museum and other attractions were pricier the gently caress out more than any place I visited except for Paris and by that alone I reconsidered my views on how Francisco Franco treated them during the Spanish Civil WAr The  how it went from a anarchist hotspot to a tourist trap for fat drunk Brits and other undesirables.
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Aug 5, 2017 21:02
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