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In my new career I'm doing a butt-ton of traveling, and while some of it is flights, I'm starting to develop some paths that would probably be best-served by driving so I can change course and redirect easily, especially on the US East Coast where things are closer together. I'm looking to be doing more online sales, so picking up inventory at small-town pawnshops and junk shops, swap meets, etc has filled my poor little Suzuki up to the gunwales a few times, so I'm looking for a car with moderate (not huge) cargo capacity, since most of what I buy are relatively small and higher-value items. And since hotels can take a big chunk of my travel budget, I want a car I can camp in when needed. At first I was thinking to just use my current car and get an ultra-light trailer like a Scamp, but those are pretty pricey and have their own downsides in terms of handling, mileage, etc. Plus the fact that if I park the camper somewhere, drive an hour away for some event, I'm obligating myself to drive back and pick it up again, so I'm looking for more of a single-package vehicle. After I discarded the "sedan with ultralight trailer" idea, I thought about a station wagon like the Subaru Forester, but now I'm mainly looking at the various blocky micro-vans or square-SUVs, especially the Honda Element and Scion xB. I was googling to see if many folks have tried living/working out of these, and then found out that the Element is like the modern Vanagon and a really popular car-camper:  Here is my rough plan so far, and I welcome your comments, criticism, and sheer scorn in helping me make an SUV into an awesome micro-RV. Yes, I know it'll be way less comfy than an RV, but I've spent months living in literal holes in the ground in Iraq, in coffin-racks on a Navy ship, slept out in the woods with just a tarp, and spent plenty of nights curled up in a Toyota Corolla. Also I'm 5'6" so snug suits me fine. -- I want a vehicle that gets semi-okay highway mileage, can operate standalone for carrying cargo and still sleeping a (small) person without having to use a trailer. Ideally one that looks reasonably tidy rather than all Roma-wagon'ed out and drawing cop attention. I would be okay putting US$10-15k total into the project, with my preference being buying one with "good bones" and worn components and then putting in aftermarket shocks, brakes, etc. rather than paying more for one with low mileage. -- Top of my list right now is the Honda Element, though the Scion xB appears to be a better car overall, though maybe slightly less ideal as a micro-RV. From my reading online, the Element is a great "jack of all trades" but not ideal at anything in particular. Folks have advised getting the AWD variant if that matters, and since I might be in snowy areas, or occasionally on dirt roads (though not at all off-roading) I could see springing for AWD or similar. The other exciting possibility is that apparently the Element uses the same engine as the CRV, so in theory one could buy a diesel/TDI engine from Europe and plug it in, which would be amazing. I'm open to other vehicles though, with the caveat that I have an illogical and visceral dislike for the big American brands so would prefer an Asian brand (even if actually built in the US). --My goal would be to have the right mods and accessories to be able to work on my laptop in it, have a tiny travel printer/scanner, basically have all my needed office gear in there and a way to use it comfortably and ergonomically. When I don't have too much cargo I'd sleep in the back, but the pop-up roof tent (a $5k mod that takes 2-3 weeks in Portland OR) seems a great backup for trips where I pile in a lot of cargo. -- The Element looks pretty conservative and non-threatening, and even the pop-up says "middle-class camping enthusiast" rather than "filthy hippy squatting in your town" or (more accurately) "ex-Marine burnout itinerant wanderer". Other than the discreet crash-bars, I'd keep the outside looking pretty stock, just adding the "don't ticket me" requisite USMC vinyl sticker to the back window. In most US states and Canadian provinces, am I okay to dark-tint the windows further back so long as the windshield/driver/passenger windows aren't tinted? Being able to skip the trailer also helps keep it looking conservative. -- At first I would just upgrade shocks/brakes and replace anything clapped out, and drive it for a bit. If I like it, I want to add a small and subtle bull bar to the front, bumper guard in the back, and rock-sliders on the sides. More for avoiding urban dings and dents than for anything bush-related.  Those are my initial thoughts, and I'd hope to buy sometime between now and the end of the year, and thinking to travel south of the snow line to buy so I can get one that hasn't been rusted-out underneath by road salt. Perusing online, it's pretty easy to find an early-2000s Element with 150k miles for like $3k or so, looking pretty clean. And as said above, I'm fine buying one that's wearing out its stock components since I'd want to put in aftermarket anyway, and even high engine mileage might not matter much if I'm willing to do either an engine rebuild, or drop in a Euro CRV diesel engine. Those are my thoughts, fire away, o ye goons! TapTheForwardAssist fucked around with this message at 14:41 on Aug 9, 2017 |
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Aug 9, 2017 14:10
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| # ¿ May 22, 2024 11:47 |
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Maybe I pitched it wrong, but it feels like a lot of these replies are "here's a cargo vehicle that's not terrible to drive around in" when I'm looking more for "good car to drive around in that can hold an moderate amount of cargo". Bear in mind that I've done things similar to this with a Toyota Corolla in the past, and currently with a Suzuki Kizashi, so I don't need massive hauling capacity. At this point my search is "maybe I need more room than a Subaru Forester" rather than "maybe I need something more drivable than an RV". I can't imagine trying to parallel-park a transit van during trips into the city. But appreciate broadening my scope.quote:I agree you'd be much better served by a van, be it a conventional van or a cargo variant like the Transit. Even the big SUVs are really uncomfortable to sleep in and you add in the fact that you'll have stuff piling up the rear it doesnt leave much space for any desk work to be done unless you're sitting in the front seats doing it. I was thinking front seats for the desk work, actually. Initially I was looking into the clever "this desk bolts on to your steering wheel", but on further thought that'd be dumb since I can just as easily pop over to the passenger front seat and have my shelf and plugs and whatnot more permanently set up there and leave the driver's seat just for driving. quote:I don't think you mentioned it, and if you did I missed it, but are you planning on being somewhat self sufficient in the camper/element? I looked at making a camping van a few years ago and there are a lot of cool options for small refrigerators, stoves, stand-alone HVAC, etc. I could see having a small camp-stove for legit campsites just to heat up canned soup or whatever, and if I had a fridge it'd be some micro lunchbox-sized thing just so I could keep some eggs and bacon overnight, nothing remotely large. InitialDave posted:I think we should agree that the Element is a perfectly good choice, so this thread can now move onto the important details, such as what you're going to airbrush up the side. Three wolf moon? Motherfuckin' DRAGONS? Red Sonja fan art? Keeping it looking clean outside, other than the aforementioned Marine stickers to buy some slack from cops, concerned citizens, etc. For looks, I do love the contrasting quarter-panels on many Element models, though I think the faux-wood panels are too cheesy, though they would certainly keep the vehicle looking non-threatening. Am I thinking straight with my plot to seek out a cheaper high-mileage (but clean) Element, with an eye towards immediately upgrading brakes/shocks and later rebuilding or replacing the engine? The pop-top mod I'd hold off on, and at first just see if I can rig up some straps to keep the cargo on one side of the back and sleep on the other side, since $5k is a pretty big investment and the pop-top would be fine for campsites but a little conspicuous at any unofficial resting site. Did a little digging, and you can buy entire Diesel CRV engines from Europe for $1-2k, and this one is a Turbo Diesel: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HONDA-CRV-CIVIC-2-2-i-CDTi-N22A2-TURBO-DIESEL-ENGINE-/251959514173 EDIT: Holy crap, the CTDI engine gets 40-45 miles to the gallon of diesel! I need to set that up as a story problem and figure out how long it would take me to amortize the cost of buying and shipping a CTDI from Europe (minus money recouped from selling the stock engine). If a CRV engine is basically a drop-in, but with whatever added hassle of going from gas to diesel, anyone have a rough guess at what it'd cost to have a mechanic install the CTDI if I just drive up with the stock vehicle and a Euro engine sitting in the hold?
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Aug 10, 2017 14:37
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Okay, so the CTDI just isn't practically or economically feasible, got it, good to get a reality check there. Are there any non-extravagant mods to get either better mileage or more torque out of this puppy? And is it penny-wise/pound-foolish buying a high-mileage one with an eye towards having the (conventional gas) engine rebuilt with upgraded bits? For max versatility (on an Element or a Scion or whatever), should I be looking at an AWD variant or a FWD variant, and stick or manual? I'm only okay at stick but would get better fast, and most of my stick ability comes from being accustomed to shifting on motorbikes so it crosses over pretty well. Helpful reality check too on the $5k pop-up; I had suspected that was more an Element-cultist thing than a really practical option. I might just get a good quality small tent and stow it in the back for the times I want to sleep outside the vehicle at a campsite, though I'll look into up-top platform options too. Entone, so glad someone with on-nose experience stopped in! Can you clarify slightly what factors caused you to move on from the Element? For me it's less a budget issue and more of trying to be as car-like as possible (something that I can parallel-park when I go into a city). Given that the $5k pop-top was one of the exuberant ideas that had me looking at the Element over the Scion xB, does anyone have a good argument why I should go for the Scion instead, whether for ride, mileage, parts/service availability, etc? I'll hold off on asking specifics about vehicle mods (mainly brakes, suspension, shocks, possibly upgrading seats) until I can suss out whether my focus should be the Element or the xB, or some other frame. The Kia Soul is tempting (and adorable) but I think doesn't have a long enough bed for even a 5'6" to sleep in (EDIT: 51" with seats in driving position, 55" with seats forward). Is the Nissan Cube also in the running? FAKEEDIT: And this is what I mean by "don't ticket me" stickers:   On my Kizashi I have a medium sized Eagle-Globe-Anchor with no text in the middle of the back window, and in the left upper corner I have the emblem of the 1st Marine Division, and below that the Afghanistan ribbon and Iraq ribbon. On the last two the decals came with text but I sliced them off before installing, figuring that it makes it more mysteriously cool for people unfamiliar, and people who recognize the emblems will feel extra-insider. I have seen cops let Marines off with just warnings on multiple occasions, and once had a cop pull me over in Philly just to show off his Marine Corps tattoo and tell me to drive safe. I'm not an rear end in a top hat vet that demands worship or anything, I just hate dealing with cops so I will happily exploit every advantage I have to minimize hassle from them. EDIT3: I don't *think* I want a cargo van, though I'm not totally against suggestions that are only slightly larger than an Element, just not a massive Ford Transit or similar. Here's a great write-up by a guy who made a camper out of a Renault Kangoo, and I think one of the mini-cargo-vans mentioned above is similar to this one: http://www.instructables.com/id/The-MicroCamper-aka-Fat-Berta/ And mini-van with fully-enclosed rear is right-out since I don't want to sleep in a claustrophobic cave, but I'd be open to something like the Kangoo's US-equivalent, though that's still lower on my possibles list than the Element and xB. This is helping out a ton, y'all are great. Keep the ideas coming, and after this thread is resolved I'd like to post a new one "Pimp the Bishop's RAV" since my da is looking for ideas to trick out his V6 RAV. He recently retired after 40-some years as a clergyman, loves his RAV and wants it to be "the last car he'll ever own", and I've sold him on the idea of a subtle front crash bar, rock sliders, bumper protector, but he nixed the idea of adding a snorkel to it. In the past he was horrible about car maintenance so his RAV slowly started to suck over the years, but after much prodding from me he spent a couple grand for a big overhaul, and now it's awesome. It's an automatic so shifting lag kills the 0-60 but over several tries I've clocked his V6 RAV at 7.2sec, and googling around some folks have gotten 6.4sec out of the stick, so pretty dang sprightly for a light SUV. But I'll leave that for the next thread. Thanks for help in particular from the experienced van-campers, and from folks with opinions as to whether Element, xB, or other is the best vehicle for this purpose. TapTheForwardAssist fucked around with this message at 16:31 on Aug 10, 2017 |
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Aug 10, 2017 16:22
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Powershift posted:Imported engines under 21 years old need EPA labels. The UK uses imperial gallons which is 4.55 liters, the US gallons is 3.75 liters, so most MPG ratings you'll see there have to be adjusted to line up with ours. C&D saw 28 US MPG out of the diesel CR-V which was 6mpg over the gasser. even if it's $2000 for the engine and $2000 to get it installed, at $2 per gallon it would take 100,000 miles to make up the cost. Nice work on the numbers, helps a ton. quote:The transit connect is roughly the same size as the element on the outside, but has a lower floor and higher roof giving it nearly twice the volume behind the front seats. It's based on the focus so it's not exactly a big lumbering cargo vehicle. just google image search transit connect camper to see what other people have done. Having a small fridge/stove/water tank could give you a couple more days away from campgrounds or restaurants. For my notes and to save curious others' time: OAL: xB: 155" Element: 180" Transit Connect: 174" (SWB model) Wheelbase: xB: 98" Element: 101" TC: 104" Width: xB: 67" Element: 72" TC: 72" EDIT: Is the Transit Connect available TDI in the US or just overseas? TapTheForwardAssist fucked around with this message at 16:40 on Aug 10, 2017 |
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Aug 10, 2017 16:38
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Forgot to mention, I bounce between the US and Canada, that might matter. And holy goat balls, Elements are way cheap and available in Quebec (deduct 20% to get USD price): https://www.kijiji.ca/b-autos-camions/quebec/honda-element/c174l9001a54a1000054 "Y Package" is apparently just the same thing as EX model. EDIT: anyone pushing me towards an xB instead?
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Aug 10, 2017 19:06
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Got some good back-and-forth here, I'm digging it. I walked past an Element today and gave it a walk-around to get a feel for the size and build. The idea of renting one is excellent, I'll have to keep an eye on Turo when I travel and see if anyone is pimping theirs out to strangers. I saw a Land Rover L4 today too and briefly thought "that'd make a cool camper" for all of the 10 seconds it took me to see that a used L4 goes for... I'm thinking that station wagons are too small, though the Forester was my initial bright idea. And while I understand that some SWB cargo vans aren't any bigger than the Element, I'm not sold on the idea yet, though I think I am close to writing off the Scion xB unless I can borrow one and try sleeping in it to see if even little ol' me can fit in the back. I To one side, the fact that so many people elsewhere on the internet are huge Element-camper enthusiasts presumably means that it has some big advantages overall, even if sub-optimal in several areas. I think it's still my leading choice. quote:What's the reasoning behind wanting to upgrade the shocks/brakes right away? Would it be cheaper to just run stock everything and replace them at smaller intervals? That's one thing I'm hoping the thread can guide me on: if I have to choose between an Element with say 100k miles for $5k or 150k miles for $3k, assuming no damage beyond standard wear-tear, am I better off buying the 150k and putting a grand into replacing belts/plugs/pads/etc or am I smarter to buy the new one that has more life in its stock parts? I bought a Suzuki Sidekick once that was kinda clapped-out but had good bones, and I was thinking I was smart because I could use the money I saved to put in Old Man Emu suspension and ceramic breaks, but then before I could do so it got stolen and presumably chop-shopped so I haven't actually put the idea into practice. quote:Regarding feeling claustrophobic with a closed off van, you'll be craving for more privacy after the first night in an element. The top of an airmattress reached the bottom of the window in the back. It's weird to wakeup at a trailhead or rest stop with someone visibly right next to you when you're too exhausted to put up any sort of curtain. Would good tinting on the rear area windows and a good curtain up-front not ameliorate a lot of that? Are there tints I can do that still let light in but look totally black on the outside? I would still leave the front windows and windshield untinted, or maybe slight UV-tinting for the windshield. Nobody objecting to a small crash bar, bumper protector, and rock-sliders? I guess a snorkel would be against the "inconspicuous" part though. After working in Africa I just love snorkels on cars. Jimong5 posted:Comedy Option: Is that a Pontiac Aztek? I feel like half this thread is just following jokes from American Dad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vaQQQORks4 So we're going to live in a car? --It's not just a car, it's a tent on wheels. But how can we afford this? We only have $938 for the whole month. --I only paid 400 bucks for this bad boy. How did you manage that? --Well, first I had to find a Pontiac dealership, which wasn't easy. Then I told them I wanted to buy an Aztek.Then I paid them $400. TapTheForwardAssist fucked around with this message at 05:39 on Aug 11, 2017 |
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Aug 11, 2017 05:33
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Commodore_64 posted:I run a rooftop tent on my 99 Forester (read an actual wagon, less of an SUV). It's 4+ person and hella spacious with 2 adults. I have a pricey Cascadia Vehicle Tents from Bend, Or, but I know that there are plenty less pricey options out there. It keeps your vehicle cargo area clear, but it is pretty obviously a tent and draws a lot of attention when parked. If you have a good roof rack to mount it to, a less expensive brand might run you $700 to get into it. I would absolutely get a Forester if I either: a) planned to tow an ultra-light sleeping trailer and keep cargo in the car b) planned to tow a small cargo-trailer and camp in the car But since I want to be able to do both moderate cargo and/or camping in the car itself without towing, Element is still ahead. Small accessory questions: -- any goon-recommended products for turning the passenger seat into an office desk? Some kind of bracket to hold my iPad and some kind of tray for my keyboard, and then some mini-printer/scanner? Anything else I'm missing? -- Any *really* small refrigerator that y'all like, like one too small for even one gallon of milk but big enough for six eggs and some bacon and a can of Coke? Not sure on HVAC yet, need to ponder, or maybe some battery-powered fans in the windows. For stove I'm 90% sure that just a little backpacker camp stove would work for just heating up water or canned goods. -- this will sound goofy, but for local travel without having to move the car I was debating mounting my electric moped (my daily driver in Montreal) onto the rear. But I wasn't sure if I could charge it off the car efficiently, so I thought maybe compromise the green-energy aspect and get a Tomos or other small gas moped and hang it on the back. But then I thought that might attract thieves or otherwise compromise the low profile, so in all seriousness I'm thinking maybe a folding kick-scooter with an electric engine? Are there any of those that are sufficiently good quality, like ones made for uber-nerd commuters that fold up to carry on the subway, such as I could stow it easily in the bed? I don't want a gas version since that would stink up the cargo area, and be noisy and less green. EDIT2: and to address earlier comments, yes I've done car camping but never longer than a week at a time, and mainly in a Toyota Corolla. I've spent a few days running camping in a Corolla which is *also* packed with all my possessions, which is kinda cramped when I can only recline the seat partially and have to sleep partly sitting up, but when I've had just trunk-cargo I've spent a week or so sleeping across the back seat of a Corolla with my legs tucked. Oh, and I once lived with four other guys in a LAV-25 scout car for like three months during a war, so that's kind of car camping. Camping aside, I've done a ton of weeks+ hauling of cargo in a Toyota Corolla and in a Suzuki Kizashi, so I'm intimately familiar with how many rifles and shotguns one can feasibly fit into a Kizashi (a surprisingly large amount, less than a platoon's worth but well more than a squad's worth). TapTheForwardAssist fucked around with this message at 05:49 on Aug 11, 2017 |
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Aug 11, 2017 05:44
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The other vote in favor of the Element is that given the relatively big fan-community (including lots of van-campers) I wouldn't have to reinvent the wheel on a lot of these mods, so there's another plus.D C posted:As cheap as they are, and even if you were to go through the import process into the US, I would highly recommend against getting a car from Quebec. A friend of mine who sources cars as a living says they dont touch Quebec vehicles, I think it was something about accident reporting. That and harsh winters. That's a really good point! And as much as I love dirty French Canadian girls, maybe they're not the best folks to buy a used car from... Since I'm wandering a ton anyway, would a good bet be to do my car shopping in Texas, Florida, or SoCal where there are tons of used cars but also no road-salt issues? And since I may later travel to snowy areas, is there any standard goon recommendation for an underbody anti-corrosion coating that isn't a total ripoff? For Element variants, AWD or 4WD? Stick or manual? Sunroof or no? EDIT: Holy crap, electric push scooters have gotten fancy! There are lightweight carbon fiber models that weight 13lbs, and there are more powerful aluminum-frame versions (26lbs) that fold down totally and get 20mph. Some of them are kind of pricey but I'm sure they pop up used a lot from folks who get tired of the novelty, whereas for me it should be a great way to get around a local area without having to de-camp the rig. TapTheForwardAssist fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Aug 11, 2017 |
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Aug 11, 2017 21:10
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| # ¿ May 22, 2024 11:47 |
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Thanks for all the advice, at this point I'm leaning heavily towards the Element and will take the rest of my questions to their dedicated forum.
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Aug 16, 2017 00:08
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