The Decline and Fall of Western Civilization.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > The Decline and Fall of Western Civilization.

rudatron: May 31, 2011; by Fluffdaddy

The fall of western civilization started with this thread, and it can't be stopped now. Good job OP.

# ¿ Aug 13, 2017 13:00

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# ¿ May 22, 2024 02:39

rudatron: May 31, 2011; by Fluffdaddy

GDP is up up up, but that doesn't match the experience of real people, who have seen their real wages stagnating or reversing. The only think that keeps pushing life expectancy and other metrics up is technological progress bringing the marginal costs (cost per unit) down, because the benefits of increases in productivity have only filtered up.

# ¿ Aug 14, 2017 03:21

rudatron: May 31, 2011; by Fluffdaddy

The crisis of legitimacy is a direct consequence of politicians kicking this can down the road, because it easier for them to do that. That crisis of legitimacy lead to Donald Trump, but it won't stop there. Even if Trump is impeached or whatever, the underlying factors that enabled it are still there.

Predictably, upper class liberals are interpreting this as some kind of unprecedented, unpredictable event, either the result of some collective madness, or an indicment of the intelligence/moral-purity of the American public - but actually, it's simply the logical consequence of discrete, goverment policy and ideology, for the past couple of decades.

# ¿ Aug 14, 2017 03:27

rudatron: May 31, 2011; by Fluffdaddy

Owlofcreamcheese posted:

In western civilization or in America?

Across the west in general, but tbe United States is the center of the West right now, and you're kidding yourself if you don't see that. The EU has its own problems, specific to it, but there's a lot of cross over.

# ¿ Aug 14, 2017 03:29

rudatron: May 31, 2011; by Fluffdaddy

asdf32 posted:

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2016/02/heres-why-bernie-sanders-doesnt-say-much-about-welfare-reform/

How much of that is just price-gouging from pharma though? Total government spending is down on stuff like infrastructure, and even increases in the military budget mostly get siphoned off to private contractors. Its no keynesian stuff, that's for sure.

# ¿ Aug 14, 2017 03:32

rudatron: May 31, 2011; by Fluffdaddy

It was a fait accompli as soon as decolonialization took off, world wars or not.

# ¿ Aug 14, 2017 03:38

rudatron: May 31, 2011; by Fluffdaddy

American adversaries are well aware of US technological and global logistical supremacy, but building and maintaining such a system has a cost to it, and the US real economy hasn't advanced comparably to match.

Remember the narrative of how Reagan'a Star Wars was supposed to bankrupt the USSR? Well, turns out is also bankrupting the US as well - its just taking longer.

# ¿ Aug 14, 2017 03:47

rudatron: May 31, 2011; by Fluffdaddy

Fojar38 posted:

How much of that wealth is tied up fake over-valued/heavily speculated financial assets though? Housing prices are already over inflated and cannot continue their upwards trajectory forget, the tech boom can't last forever either, and there are signs that VCs are starting to get cold feet. Goverment debt is up, but that's not the really scary thing - its household debt (used as a substitute for wage increases) that has ballooned, which is current at about 80% of gdp.

# ¿ Aug 14, 2017 06:38

rudatron: May 31, 2011; by Fluffdaddy

sincx posted:

The fundamental problem is that more and more human beings are no longer capable of providing labor more efficiently than increasingly cheap and capable machines.

GMI, large tax increases, and/or collectivization of capital equipment are the only solutions.

Thats not true, manufacturing is still labor intensive, its just been outsourced to the third world.

# ¿ Aug 14, 2017 09:34

rudatron: May 31, 2011; by Fluffdaddy

Or do you think Shenzhen is still just a fishing village.

# ¿ Aug 14, 2017 09:34

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# ¿ May 22, 2024 02:39

rudatron: May 31, 2011; by Fluffdaddy

I don't want to be simply doom and gloom, because the US does have a lot of advantages, and that includes institutional advantages.

China is in vogue rn, and rightly so, but the chinese goverment is not exactly what you would call agile, and the lack of expression prevents national self-reflection and critical analysis of crises and shortcomings. Inconvenient truths never see the light of day, they get buried because it impacts someone in power. So the slowly mounting problems only get worse and worse. In the long run, suppression is inefficient.

But where also entering an era where The West is becoming less....Western, to use a crude term. All the EU parties that claim to protect Europe from migrants represent, ideologically, the death of every positive legacy you could associate with The West - human rights, enlightenment, etc etc. Their victory would be the death of Europe as Europe, as it were.

Where also witnessing a shift of the economic 'center' of the globe, from the atlantic, to that area between the Indian Ocean and Pacific Ocean, and that shift is not going to reverse. So, geographically, the US is now on the literal wrong side of the globe.

Now consider just how much of the US economy is directly tied into the global financial system, and what a global economy shock in that system would mean. Yes, everyone will suffer, but some well suffer worse than others. And it's the countries that manufacture the basic necessities, own valuable commodities, and are in the best shape, that are going to weather that crisis best. That is not the US.

# ¿ Aug 14, 2017 09:55

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > The Decline and Fall of Western Civilization.