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Is there anything we can do? It seems like terrorists finally got hip to the fact that we're addicted to our cars even moreso than our guns, and the KDR for cars appears to be at least as high, if not higher, than most gun or knife attacks. We're not about to ban cars or even regulate them any more than they already are. Wearing a bulletproof vest won't stop a car from gettin ya. It seems like we're just hosed and there's nothing we can do except accept it. That's how I feel at this moment, but I figure if anyone has any good ideas, they probably post in D&Dm so here we are. Please brainstorm ways to keep me safe from terror automobiles. If they keep you safe, too, I guess that's okay as well, but start with me, because I'm precious. Thanks.
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Aug 17, 2017 19:10
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The specific weapon used in these attacks isn't really that important. But if you want to focus on that aspect of it, then cities will need to be redesigned to keep pedestrian and automobile traffic separate. Otherwise no matter what, cars and people will meet accidentally or intentionally.
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Aug 17, 2017 19:28
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A shitload of bollards Pretty much nothing else will work that isn't a total revamp of the way we separate pedestrian and vehicle traffic.
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Aug 17, 2017 19:41
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ate poo poo on live tv posted:The specific weapon used in these attacks isn't really that important. But if you want to focus on that aspect of it, then cities will need to be redesigned to keep pedestrian and automobile traffic separate. Otherwise no matter what, cars and people will meet accidentally or intentionally. How is the specific weapon not important? It seems important to me, but to be honest I haven't thought much about this before now, and I'm no Terrorism Expert. But it seems that even more than most other weapons of comparable lethality, just about anyone can pick up a car at any time. Like I could right now, with no prior training or discussion, get in my car and go kill some people with it. With a small amount of planning, I could probably figure out how to kill quite a few (rent a moving truck and pick a long straight road with lots of pedestrian traffic). Or I could rent a car. Or steal one. They're just lying around for the taking! And we're not about to keep pedestrian and automobile traffic separate. I guess maybe self-driving cars could make a difference as long as there's no way for people to take control of them (obviously you could hack them, but that would take more specific knowledge and tools which might be traceable. I'm talking about being able to push a button in the car to make it go from self-driving to driver-driven)
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Aug 17, 2017 19:41
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Not a Children posted:A shitload of bollards Time to invest in bollards.
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Aug 17, 2017 19:42
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Accelerate the demise of the Automobile, especially in cities. Have more city roads open to permanent "pedestrian only" traffic. Not only does it increase public safety, but it's better for the environment as well.
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Aug 17, 2017 19:48
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cda posted:How is the specific weapon not important? Cutting off people's hands won't solve terrorism.
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Aug 17, 2017 21:48
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Weapons evolve. Increase in public transport, walkability and bicycles make this sort of thing much harder or even obsolete to do long after us (self-driving cars?). But that ain't happening any time soon so  we got used to assault rifles, before that handguns, before that bows and arrows, before that...
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Aug 17, 2017 21:50
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UK solution: Ban cars. US solution: Issue anti-material handguns.
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Aug 17, 2017 21:57
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A better question would be: What do we do about cars as a mass driver of human death and misery? The number of people killed by vehicles in terrorist attacks are a drop in the bucket compared to the number killed by say, drunk drivers. Guess I'll just watch "Crash" again.
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Aug 17, 2017 22:01
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the black husserl posted:A better question would be: What do we do about cars as a mass driver of human death and misery? Well have to get everyone to trust that machines can drive better then people. So, uh...somewhere around 2090 maybe? In the richest countries, mind you.
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Aug 17, 2017 22:10
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Put a bit in the theory test where if you say "I might run down a lot of people with a vehicle" you don't pass even if you meet the normal threshold.
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Aug 17, 2017 22:15
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It looks like about a hundred people die per day from car crashes in the US. Why are you worried about terrorism in particular, rather than the much much much much much much higher risk of just crashing into something and dying?
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Aug 17, 2017 22:40
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smart carsd
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Aug 17, 2017 22:48
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awesmoe posted:It looks like about a hundred people die per day from car crashes in the US. Why are you worried about terrorism in particular, rather than the much much much much much much higher risk of just crashing into something and dying? Because this thread is about cars as a weapon of [intentional] terrorism, not cars in general.
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Aug 17, 2017 22:51
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Terrorists look for attacks of opportunity, anywhere where there is a large mass of people and an easy way to get a weapon in will always be a target. Honestly in this day and age it'd be stupid not to have some sort of pedestrian protection in any large gathering space, bollards aren't that expensive and will stop a truck dead in its tracks.
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Aug 17, 2017 23:04
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cda posted:Is there anything we can do? It seems like terrorists finally got hip to the fact that we're addicted to our cars even moreso than our guns, and the KDR for cars appears to be at least as high, if not higher, than most gun or knife attacks. We're not about to ban cars or even regulate them any more than they already are. Wearing a bulletproof vest won't stop a car from gettin ya. It seems like we're just hosed and there's nothing we can do except accept it. That's how I feel at this moment, but I figure if anyone has any good ideas, they probably post in D&Dm so here we are. Please brainstorm ways to keep me safe from terror automobiles. If they keep you safe, too, I guess that's okay as well, but start with me, because I'm precious. Thanks. Stop renting to anyone with a licence and cash. Have background checks, better ID checks and not let people drive off the plot with a vehicle on the day.
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Aug 17, 2017 23:37
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OwlFancier posted:US solution: Issue anti-material handguns. If everyone had an M202 FLASH then we could stop the cars  :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lq0SXhwDxFI&t=76s
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Aug 17, 2017 23:40
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awesmoe posted:It looks like about a hundred people die per day from car crashes in the US. Why are you worried about terrorism in particular, rather than the much much much much much much higher risk of just crashing into something and dying? also dicks
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Aug 17, 2017 23:58
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We can either put giant foam bumpers on the cars, or on the pedestrians. Can you really put a price on safety and security?
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Aug 18, 2017 00:58
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Not really useful for everyday crowds, but more for protests: I wonder if it's possible to design an effective and cheap temporary barrier for use by protesters to protect themselves, like something shaped like a wheeled dolly, but with an extra long bottom part that would hit the undercarriage of a vehicle.
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Aug 18, 2017 02:42
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So will this be a thinly disguised anti-gun control thread?
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Aug 18, 2017 02:53
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whats te fastest way to stop a moving motor vehicle with a gun
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Aug 18, 2017 03:01
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Make America Bollard Again
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Aug 18, 2017 03:03
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Calibanibal posted:whats te fastest way to stop a moving motor vehicle with a gun Shoot out the wheels and carefully target specific parts of the engine so that the vehicle will glide to a gentle stop lightly tapping a baby's pram while the driver shakes his fist at you.
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Aug 18, 2017 03:04
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THE FUTURE 20XX All citizens are now safe from vehicular homicide as all cars are now self aware and roam the valleys as once did the buffalo, working their fracking jobs as the new Michigan sea spoils forth along their territory.
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Aug 18, 2017 03:08
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Actually, I'll stop shitposting to touch on one part of this topic that could be relevant, what about automated vehicles? Could they be somehow programmed or given enough wherewithal to prevent themselves from being used for stuff like what just happened in Barcelona? Or conversely somehow hacked to plough into pedestrians without the need to get a driver into the vehicle? I have no idea how this could actually work and I'm just spitballing sci-fi scenarios but robot cars are definitely coming and I'd be curious how their large scale adoption could effect this tactic. edit; lol, didn't even see the above post when I posted this.
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Aug 18, 2017 03:11
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ate poo poo on live tv posted:cities will need to be redesigned to keep pedestrian and automobile traffic separate What if we did this but then nobody tried any more car terrorisms anyway and we just created a better world for nothing?
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Aug 18, 2017 03:37
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legalize fully automatic weapons along with high explosives and sell them in convenience stores with no background check nobody's going to drive a loving car into a crowd when they can fire rockets at them
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Aug 18, 2017 03:51
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Here in my car I can only receive. I can listen to you - it keeps me stable for days.
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Aug 18, 2017 05:35
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Tenporate Pedestrian/Car walls that are designed to take vehicle hits, put crash cars at the start and rnd of yhe walls to block vehicles from entering throigh the sides of the walls, Make pedestrian entrances that are the sizr of 1 or 2npeoplr sife by side.
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Aug 18, 2017 07:19
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I think the "get a van and run over people" trend is more about showing that the organizations that were previously able to do stuff like the London bombings, the Madrid bombing and the Charlie Hebdo attack are more or less losing the talent they need for those kinds of attacks, considering that the better planned attacks tend to end up with everyone involved in it dead.
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Aug 18, 2017 09:54
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I've been saying this for years, and maybe now people will start to listen: we need to go back to horses. Cars have had their run, it was fun for a while, but it's time to put an end to this fad, and go back to what works. Which is horses. Horses work - - and if a terrorizerist takes over a horse and runs it into a crowd of people, at most you'd get like, what, one, maybe two deaths before he's thrown off? If that. Horses, y'all.
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Aug 18, 2017 10:18
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I won't feel safe until police controlled predator drones patrol the skies above my city 24/7 and vaporize anyone who jumps a curb
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Aug 18, 2017 10:39
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The attacks can probably be linked to two things. First, symbolic targets like government facilities, military bases, and monuments have been increasingly hardened over the last two decades, making it difficult for individuals to execute attacks there. Second, there's been a real erosion of ability due to strikes against terrorist leaders and an increased awareness that communications networks are being monitored. It is difficult to coordinate or receive training. This latter point is probably more true for foreign-based groups than it is for domestic far-right extremists. There are probably different policies that cities can adopt to reduce the number of casualties from an event. Integrating unobtrusive barriers into areas with a lot of foot traffic and developing a better reponse capability for first-responders are some of the first policies that come to mind. Short of some technology-based solution in the vehicle itself though, I am not really sure if there is any way to comprehensively stop these vehicle ramming attacks. I think it makes more sense to look at the cause rather than the effect. The better solution in my mind is to reevaluate how different government programs deal with radicalization and look for ways to improve their effectiveness. I can't really speak for other countries, but, in the United States, most "Countering Violent Extremism" programs lack a good evidentiary basis. There are few metrics. Officials often see Countering Violent Extremism programs as code for Countering Muslim Extremism, which tends to exacerbate frustration in those communities and ignore the very real threat posed by white supremacist, neo-Nazi, and other hate groups. Experts constantly call the Department of Homeland Security to empower communities, but those recommendations are rarely put into practice. The entire funding structure is questionable. A lot of guidance on terrorism dates back to 2003. Unfortunately, only Congress and Department of Homeland Security leadership really possess the capability to make these overarching changes and I don't see any political will there. Not even Obama gave it much focus. QuoProQuid fucked around with this message at 11:30 on Aug 18, 2017 |
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Aug 18, 2017 11:20
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It's not a coincidence that all these attacks targeted pedestrian streets. If there were cars on the way, then these attacks would have been way less effective. The most obvious solution is MORE cars. It also helps not having terrorists in the country in the first place.
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Aug 18, 2017 12:03
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khwarezm posted:Actually, I'll stop shitposting to touch on one part of this topic that could be relevant, what about automated vehicles? Could they be somehow programmed or given enough wherewithal to prevent themselves from being used for stuff like what just happened in Barcelona? Or conversely somehow hacked to plough into pedestrians without the need to get a driver into the vehicle? I have no idea how this could actually work and I'm just spitballing sci-fi scenarios but robot cars are definitely coming and I'd be curious how their large scale adoption could effect this tactic. Lidar is cool and cars will probably get "don't crash into stuff" features before going full automatic https://youtu.be/nXlqv_k4P8Q
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Aug 18, 2017 12:12
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Lidar is cool and cars will probably get "don't crash into stuff" features before going full automatic That, and non-optional speed/acceleration limits based on where you are physically at any moment.
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Aug 18, 2017 12:20
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pigdog posted:It's not a coincidence that all these attacks targeted pedestrian streets. If there were cars on the way, then these attacks would have been way less effective. The most obvious solution is MORE cars. Gridlock saves lives
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Aug 18, 2017 16:38
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The Butcher posted:What if we did this but then nobody tried any more car terrorisms anyway and we just created a better world for nothing? It'll be a great idea that should happen regardless of terrorism, unfortunately it won't really do anything about the terrorists who are now using bombs/acid/fire to kill people in this better world though.
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Aug 18, 2017 16:40
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