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The best way to solve this is to make sure no one goes out in public like that Bruce Willis movie about incels.
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Aug 20, 2017 19:29
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OwlFancier posted:It might also be that getting people to run people over is pretty effective and kind of hard to stop so why go for anything more elaborate? I'm guessing if you're a serious terrorist looking to attack a country you hate it's much easier and effective to find idiots to run cars into people than risk yourself and your goal by orchestrating some major attack and possibly getting caught/killed.
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Aug 20, 2017 20:09
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ColoradoCleric posted:I'm guessing if you're a serious terrorist looking to attack a country you hate it's much easier and effective to find idiots to run cars into people than risk yourself and your goal by orchestrating some major attack and possibly getting caught/killed. It requires a trivially easy amount of planning and preparation (locate a busy area or gathering of people) and an easily attainable common tool (an automobile). No illegal or unusual activity is necessary until the commission of the act itself. There is simply no reason to do anything more complicated. You also have the copycat effect at this point - everybody knows you can kill a bunch of people and grab all the headlines by running a car through a crowd.
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Aug 21, 2017 03:53
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OwlFancier posted:It might also be that getting people to run people over is pretty effective and kind of hard to stop so why go for anything more elaborate? Because terrorism needs spectacle to be ultimately successful. People are getting used to "ISIS inspired dude drove a van over people" on the news really fast, which is interesting.
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Aug 21, 2017 04:57
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Kemper Boyd posted:Because terrorism needs spectacle to be ultimately successful. People are getting used to "ISIS inspired dude drove a van over people" on the news really fast, which is interesting. That's maybe why the Barcelona attack was meant to feature vans filled with propane tanks, so they could start off with driving into the crowd then setting off a huge bomb to 'improve' the spectacle.
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Aug 21, 2017 06:25
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Absurd Alhazred posted:
Apparently one person was just killed at a bus stop in Marseille. It's too soon for any details but supposedly another but stop was also targeted: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40998324
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Aug 21, 2017 10:37
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what if instead of cars we got rid of tires
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Aug 21, 2017 11:16
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dehumanize yourself, and face to bloodshed
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Aug 21, 2017 11:26
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Endorph posted:what if instead of cars we got rid of tires Kemper Boyd posted:Because terrorism needs spectacle to be ultimately successful. People are getting used to "ISIS inspired dude drove a van over people" on the news really fast, which is interesting.
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Aug 21, 2017 11:27
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mobby_6kl posted:Good news is that you can use a bus to run over people too! Yes, I remember. You can also very effectively commit suicide attacks in buses.
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Aug 21, 2017 12:40
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Kemper Boyd posted:I think the "get a van and run over people" trend is more about showing that the organizations that were previously able to do stuff like the London bombings, the Madrid bombing and the Charlie Hebdo attack are more or less losing the talent they need for those kinds of attacks, considering that the better planned attacks tend to end up with everyone involved in it dead. Wanted to come back to this because it turns out that the Barcelona van thing appears to have been part of a fairly complex plot. When you wrote this, it made sense to me but it apparently, at least in this instance, it wasn't true. I think there is an advantage to terrorists using something ubiquitous like the car to perpetrate terror; you're going to see them everywhere you go, which both disguises a terror attack before it happens and at the same time, if cars get branded as terror adjuncts, it means everywhere you go you're seeing something that makes you anxious. The fact that anyone can pull off one of these attacks actually makes it also something you might want to do as part of a coordinated attack. Btw, I didn't make this thread as a joke. The 20th century in terror was the century of the bomb, but it seems like the 21st century is gonna be the century of the vehicle; 9/11 wasn't just unusually lethal, it also represented a tactical shift, in retrospect.
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Aug 23, 2017 12:16
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I mean, poo poo, I'm still not sure why we haven't seen someone driving an 18 wheeler into a crowd (more work to get a CDL? Not easy to steal a huge truck? Bad acceleration?)
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Aug 23, 2017 12:19
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cda posted:I mean, poo poo, I'm still not sure why we haven't seen someone driving an 18 wheeler into a crowd (more work to get a CDL? Not easy to steal a huge truck? Bad acceleration?) We've seen terrorists go to flight school, getting a CDL is a cakewalk in comparison. It might be the handling, but a similar type of truck was used in Nice just last year. 
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Aug 23, 2017 12:33
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cda posted:I mean, poo poo, I'm still not sure why we haven't seen someone driving an 18 wheeler into a crowd (more work to get a CDL? Not easy to steal a huge truck? Bad acceleration?) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9E30hnq7vw
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Aug 23, 2017 12:36
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LeJackal posted:We've seen terrorists go to flight school, getting a CDL is a cakewalk in comparison. It might be the handling, but a similar type of truck was used in Nice just last year. Hmm. That's a big truck, but I mean a bigger truck.
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Aug 23, 2017 12:54
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Kemper Boyd posted:Because terrorism needs spectacle to be ultimately successful. People are getting used to "ISIS inspired dude drove a van over people" on the news really fast, which is interesting. The extensive news reporting on the attacks ensures there is spectacle.
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Aug 23, 2017 13:02
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cda posted:Hmm. That's a big truck, but I mean a bigger truck.
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Aug 23, 2017 15:13
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Rent-A-Cop posted:What would be the point? A longer truck doesn't run people over any better. Yeah it does, more mass. My guess is they don't get used in attacks because they're harder to get and take special training to drive. Even if a terrorist stole one they'd probably get it stuck in an intersection trying to make a left hand turn en route to the attack site.
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Aug 23, 2017 17:14
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Just need a big truck.
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Aug 23, 2017 17:59
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mobby_6kl posted:Just need a big truck. Well, if they want a spectacle: 
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Aug 23, 2017 23:23
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Solaris 2.0 posted:Accelerate the demise of the Automobile, especially in cities. Have more city roads open to permanent "pedestrian only" traffic. Not only does it increase public safety, but it's better for the environment as well. Cars are a great example of a privatization project. Expensive, inefficient, and with few exceptions ugly. Fansy fucked around with this message at 23:43 on Aug 23, 2017 |
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Aug 23, 2017 23:40
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Road diets to narrow streets in areas that regularly have a lot of pedestrian traffic. Trees along sidewalks along with bike lanes make for natural and aesthetically pleasing bollards. Getting rid of parking minimums to move parked cars onto the streets and create a barrier of parked cars between road traffic and pedestrians also helps. These are all things that cities should be doing anyway, because there are tons of accidents between cars and pedestrians every year, but now that people are doing deliberately as terrorism, it's catching a lot more attention. When you have large gatherings of pedestrians, cities should be setting up K-Rails along the periphery to keep cars out. In Santa Monica, after an accident in 2003 at the local farmers market where an elderly driver accidentally hit the gas instead of the brake and plowed into a bunch of pedestrians, the city got the poo poo sued out of them for not doing enough to stop accidents like that, so now they have vehicle nets set up to catch and arrest the momentum of any car that runs into it.
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Aug 23, 2017 23:47
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cda posted:Hmm. That's a big truck, but I mean a bigger truck. Watch out if someone starts using Champion Crane trucks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pD4AgkHStLU&t=85s
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Aug 24, 2017 00:00
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Guavanaut posted:Good plan. Less cars and buses, more trolleys and trains. If you still want your private car, you can have a car with train wheels like in back to the future. Good luck running over pedestrians when you have to derail yourself to mount the curb. I'm sure part of it is that car deaths are pretty accepted already - cars kill tens of thousands of Americans every year, including several thousand pedestrians. It's just not a novel or unfamiliar way of death the way bombs or plane crashes are.
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Aug 24, 2017 02:50
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Instant Sunrise posted:When you have large gatherings of pedestrians, cities should be setting up K-Rails along the periphery to keep cars out. In Santa Monica, after an accident in 2003 at the local farmers market where an elderly driver accidentally hit the gas instead of the brake and plowed into a bunch of pedestrians, the city got the poo poo sued out of them for not doing enough to stop accidents like that, so now they have vehicle nets set up to catch and arrest the momentum of any car that runs into it.
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Aug 24, 2017 10:52
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A Buttery Pastry posted:"Accidentally" This is a notable difference. Stuff like a net around a farmers market is great for preventing the incredibly infrequent accident where old person and a crowd might line up just right. It's less good about preventing some Nazi fetishist from noting that people are gathered in a line on the grass outside the net today a few minutes before driving a car into them.
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Aug 24, 2017 12:51
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It's weird as hell to think about, but I can't think of any way to murder someone you don't like that's more quintessentially American than running them over in your car. Americans are the people who overwhelmingly reject public transit and demand we make services available as a drive-through, where you needn't leave your car for food, money, or even watching a loving movie. It just seems so inevitable that Trump supporters, fully encapsulating all of America's worst vices, chose the car as their weapon against people they don't like. Even loving Fox News is condoning the act. I've got the feeling we're gonna see a lot more protesters murdered by shithead Trump supporters in the years to come, because it's doing horrible poo poo with no effort which is The Trumpian Mantra. Main Paineframe posted:I'm sure part of it is that car deaths are pretty accepted already - cars kill tens of thousands of Americans every year, including several thousand pedestrians. It's just not a novel or unfamiliar way of death the way bombs or plane crashes are. In Georgia they display the number of roadway fatalities in the state year-to-date, and yet it's something we live with since the idiots North of Atlanta have so thoroughly annihilated any funding chances for real public transit. You realize that it's a big number, you shrug because there's no other way to get to your job, and you just hope your ticket isn't pulled in the reaper's lottery that day by a distracted 16-year-old in their parents' 6,000 lb SUV.
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Aug 24, 2017 16:27
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Instant Sunrise posted:Road diets to narrow streets in areas that regularly have a lot of pedestrian traffic. Trees along sidewalks along with bike lanes make for natural and aesthetically pleasing bollards. Getting rid of parking minimums to move parked cars onto the streets and create a barrier of parked cars between road traffic and pedestrians also helps. I'm not sure I would recommend on-street parking as a solution to pedestrian safety because it makes it a lot harder to see them crossing.
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Aug 24, 2017 18:27
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Self-driving cars will solve this problem. I think its important that my car put my safety first, if people are crowding and attacking my car, or if skidding it gets into control in a way that puts my safety first. Also, we can ban guns, cause politics. 
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Aug 24, 2017 20:47
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This may come as a massive surprise to the majority of people but I have a hard truth to deal. The only way to prevent terrorism or violence of any kind is to have an educated and content population. Gun rights advocates have been saying for years that guns don't kill people, people do. You learned the wrong lesson, I guess, if you are talking about adding more bollards to sidewalks.
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Aug 24, 2017 21:39
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jamariscott posted:Self-driving cars will solve this problem. I think its important that my car put my safety first, if people are crowding and attacking my car, or if skidding it gets into control in a way that puts my safety first. Also, we can ban guns, cause politics. Check out the unicorn thread,
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Aug 24, 2017 21:39
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NathanScottPhillips posted:This may come as a massive surprise to the majority of people but I have a hard truth to deal. Here's the thing though, while intentional terrorism by driving cars into crowds is rare, but there's a lot more cases of people accidentally running over pedestrians in their cars. There's still a lot that can be done in general to improve walkability and safety for pedestrians, and that would incidentally make it harder for terrorist attacks like this to happen. A bollard barrier that was built to protect against a terrorist driving a car onto the sidewalk is also going to protect against a drunk or distracted driver who isn't intentionally trying to kill people.
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Aug 24, 2017 22:02
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But what about the government trampling on my god given right to drive on the pavement???
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Aug 24, 2017 22:40
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Instant Sunrise posted:Here's the thing though, while intentional terrorism by driving cars into crowds is rare, but there's a lot more cases of people accidentally running over pedestrians in their cars. There's still a lot that can be done in general to improve walkability and safety for pedestrians, and that would incidentally make it harder for terrorist attacks like this to happen. OwlFancier posted:But what about the government trampling on my god given right to drive on the pavement??? This is getting a little off topic for this thread, however.
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Aug 24, 2017 22:49
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Perhaps we could crack down on people texting and driving and also put some bollards up?
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Aug 24, 2017 23:51
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A car may not injure a human being, or, through inaction, allow and human being to come to harm.
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Aug 24, 2017 23:51
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I wonder when we will have our first car president 🤔, and whether it will be a lovely car.
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Aug 24, 2017 23:52
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But back to the subject at hand, collision-avoiding cars are a long way off, and you're not going to be able to retrofit the millions of cars already in circulation, so I guess it's just bollards? That's all we've got? I think the only real limitation on this thing is the number of people who are willing to die or go to jail for the privilege of getting to run a bunch of people over.
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Aug 24, 2017 23:55
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the safest place to be from a car is another car. cities need to discourage walking and encourage driving especially in nightlife heavy areas with the most people
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Aug 25, 2017 01:03
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The only thing that can stop a bad guy with a car is a good guy with a car
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Aug 25, 2017 01:07
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