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sincx fucked around with this message at 06:06 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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Apr 13, 2019 04:10
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I finally had enough bank to build serious railroads. And fund some industries. And build a wild ride through the mountains.  (Is it intentional the game keeps running when nobody's controlling a company? It didn't used to do that.)
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Apr 14, 2019 12:33
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Start a new company.
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Apr 14, 2019 19:05
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sincx fucked around with this message at 06:06 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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Apr 15, 2019 07:03
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This game runs fine on my computer, but the server has trouble keeping up. The biggest single item in the stats is really the world ticks, i.e. time taken processing landscape tiles. It's not vehicle pathfinding. The best thing you can do to make the game playable on this server is to not play large maps, I'd say at max 1k x 2k size, with 512x1024 being a better choice. Exhibit: Simulation times for individual items is very stable (that's time taken on my machine) but the total simulation rate fluctuates wildly (this is tied to the server's simulation rate.) If I load the game in singleplayer, simulation rate hits the target 33 fps.
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Apr 15, 2019 16:34
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What the heck is it doing? Is there some weird logic being run for every single tile on the map? Does the world ticks time scale up if you increase map size? Pathfinding should obviously be the most computationally intensive task for this kind of game, outside of graphics. Edit: a shot in the dark, but I have a guess about what's going on. Since it's possible to terraform in the game, it has to constantly keep track which tiles on the map are connected by land and by sea. StoryTime fucked around with this message at 08:23 on Apr 20, 2019 |
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Apr 20, 2019 08:17
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No, it's literally just processing "stuff that has to be done occasionally for a tile" for every tile. When you have 2048x4096 tiles on a map, that's 8,388,608 tiles to process 33 times a second, compare to the standard map size of 256x256 which has just 65,536 tiles, that's 128 times more processing every tick. Some of the tile processing is "fluffy" stuff like growth states for grass, trees and farm fields, but one of the important functions is also visiting every house in towns and making them produce passengers/mail. Town houses do not have their own individual object like industries, they only exist on the map data, so the main tile loop is the only way to handle them. Where it can also get expensive in processing is if you use NewGRF town houses, industries, and map objects, which can have tile loop callbacks. If you have those, the game will make those calls to update the tile graphics, and this has to be done even when the tile is not visible on screen. The only relation to terraforming is actually in grass regrowing and water flooding. Reachable tiles are not directly stored anywhere. One of the improvements in 1.9 however was a pathfinding cache for ships, and that sort-of does keep track of reachability, however it's not cleared on terraforming. The ship path cache is only invalidated if the ship bumps into something that wasn't there when it calculated the path. The World ticks measurement also counts a few things that aren't directly tied to the map size: Processing all towns to have them build new houses, updating station ratings and acceptance, planting new trees, and have industries do their production logic. (Maybe industry handling should have been counting in the Cargo handling category instead.) nielsm fucked around with this message at 08:56 on Apr 20, 2019 |
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Apr 20, 2019 08:53
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Okay, so the thing is that there's a bunch of logic predicated on "let's just do this for every tile" instead of "let's figure out which tiles are relevant for this".
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Apr 20, 2019 09:01
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So I'm thinking about picking this back up again, in terms of issues, is there any trouble getting it to work with a Mac? Assuming no issues, what are the recommended mods these days? Is there any fun and games involved in getting mods to work?
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Jun 12, 2019 10:34
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There's been several people reporting terrible performance on Mac builds of 1.9.0 and 1.9.1, but I don't think anyone have figured out what's going on with that yet, and it doesn't seem to happen for everyone. It seems to be related to certain versions of macOS. Apart from that, it's supposed to Just WorkTM. Which mods you may want depends entirely on what kind of game you want to play. Use an alternate industry set like FIRS, ECS, or SPI, for a challenge with a vastly different industry chain. Use a regional or international or fantasy vehicle set for some different variety there, which may even be easier or harder. Use a basecosts mod to adjust difficulty if you want. Add a Game Script to get potentially interesting goals. Most mods can just be installed right from the in-game content downloader with no hassle. Some authors don't like the terms and conditions of that service and then you have to hunt it down on their own sites (or just whichever TT-Forums thread) and install manually. Often mods in the same category can be incomparible. E.g. don't try to use two industry sets at the same time, though vehicle sets can often work together. (But vehicle sets by different authors may clash visually, and not be balanced towards the same baseline/progression.) nielsm fucked around with this message at 11:37 on Jun 12, 2019 |
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Jun 12, 2019 11:33
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Thanks for the advice, I'll just have to give it a whirl and see how I get on. My plan is to try and do some kind of spoke/hub feeder system game, so have busses/trains collect passengers from smaller towns and deliver them to an airport, fly them to some kind of monstrosity of a central hub and then back through a similar chain at the other end. I know that I'll need to have cargo distribution on to make this work, but is there anything else I'll need? How about graphics upgrades, are there any particularly pretty tilesets about?
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Jun 12, 2019 12:29
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Eh you can try aBase or zBase, those are high-res baseset graphics, but their style is not for everyone. It's mostly (possibly entirely) 3D rendered sprites that lack much of the charm of hand-pixled art. You can also try BRIX, it's sort-of a total graphics replacement, except it's incomplete and it's not actually a baseset but a NewGRF so it's not quite plug-and-play. The BRIX author is using a hybrid workflow of 3D and manual adjustments to try to make a more "natural-feeling" style, except BRIX is very much a fantasy world  Also try combining BRIX with NUTS and PURR for the full experience.
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Jun 12, 2019 17:30
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sincx fucked around with this message at 06:06 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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Oct 19, 2019 07:22
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sincx posted:
Idiot post alert: How to join? I'm on the multiplayer screen but find no servers that match sincx or duckdns. Is it a "Macs can't play with PCs" issue, or am I just being dumb?
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Oct 22, 2019 01:56
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corker2k posted:Idiot post alert: How to join?
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Oct 22, 2019 02:01
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Entropist posted:I don't think it's in the public list, you have to "Add server" with that address. I’m in! Thanks
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Oct 22, 2019 02:14
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Is there a repository of crazy train station layouts that people use for megatransport systems? I remember building this once, based off of something I saw online:  They're insanely efficient but extraordinarily tedious to build. It handles 2 tracks coming in, 2 tracks coming out, from 4 directions. It's fun to see them working in the end. But I was wondering if anyone had efficient megastations like that, that aren't so crazy to build.
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Oct 22, 2019 02:43
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I’ve rage logged out of the game for the first time in about 15 years - spent an hour setting up a steel plant / iron ore line and the drat plant shut down literally as I was about to buy the trains  Agh! “No longer accepts iron ore”. I KNOW!
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Oct 22, 2019 02:49
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You guys should really jump on the transport fever bandwagon... it’s the closest we have to a modern ttd
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Oct 25, 2019 19:39
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CareyB posted:You guys should really jump on the transport fever bandwagon... it’s the closest we have to a modern ttd It doesn't have multiplayer and the economy in it is boring. (Industries are predictable, you are guaranteed that an industry will keep raising its production if you keep delivering its products, there are no random events or competition preventing that from happening.) I hope TF2 does better on the economy side.
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Oct 25, 2019 19:49
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Those are things that I don’t care about at all. I played the heck out of transport fever.
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Oct 27, 2019 06:45
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I just like building trains.
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Oct 27, 2019 11:43
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I haven't kept up with Transport Fever in a long while -- does it handle having 100+ trains running on the same network as well as OpenTTD does? I have vague memories of it around launch, and it seemed mostly focused on a small number of trains and isolated networks. The main thing I love about OpenTTD is building out a giant network for distributing passengers around using cargodist, and figuring out how to keep the network running fast without bottlenecks.
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Oct 27, 2019 16:14
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sincx fucked around with this message at 06:06 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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Nov 20, 2019 07:13
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Not really, only by modifying the core game. There were plans ages ago to make NewGRFs able to specify fully custom airports including the movement DFA, but only the graphics replacement ever happened. So the movement in airports can't be changed except via a custom build of the game.
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Nov 20, 2019 07:28
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piratepilates posted:I haven't kept up with Transport Fever in a long while -- does it handle having 100+ trains running on the same network as well as OpenTTD does? It does this just fine, it's also cool to organically see a city grow when you give it the right stuff.
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Nov 26, 2019 21:57
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Wow, thread still open. Version 1.10.0 has just been released, a load of wild changes this year. Some cool changes/features: - The road vehicle and ship YAPF pathfinders now use caching to improve performance massively. Ships are now viable on weak servers! - Multiple docks in one station! - Feeder routes (and in turn also cargo-dist) distribute the profit numbers in a more sensible way. - You can change the ending year, or just disable the game-end/score screen event entirely. - Game scripts can change companies' rating in towns. (I wrote one that just makes your rating max all the time.) - Overlays to show the coverage area of stations, and the local authority area of towns. - The coverage area of stations was also fixed so it's identical for the purposes of pick up and delivery of cargo. - Careful: Large aircraft now always have a risk of crashing at small airports, regardless of the regular plane crashes setting. - Also, support for roadtype NewGRFs.
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Apr 1, 2020 19:18
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I suck at making railroads in that but regardless I made a scenario based on my hometown a while ago, enjoy it or not https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=85651
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Apr 1, 2020 19:50
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Yay, this totally fixes the terrible performance of OpenTTD on modern macs! As a weird coincidence I tried playing for the first time in years earlier this week and was sad to see it was still busted, but it's smooth as heck again with this update. Would someone mind explaining what cargodist is? I read the wikipedia page but it's not clear wether it's something you use to make better networks or just something that makes the routing of cargo more realistic.
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Apr 1, 2020 20:47
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sincx fucked around with this message at 06:06 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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Apr 1, 2020 20:54
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toiletbrush posted:
It's an option to make your cargo have destinations, instead of just being sent to whichever station it ends up at. In the olden days of OpenTTD (and in the original TTD), you picked up cargo, you moved it to a station, it automatically went in to the nearby factory, that was it. You could have transfer orders and stuff to have multi-hop transportation, but that didn't change anything about what would accept the cargo. Then the Cargodist patch was made, and it assigned destinantions to your cargo (chosen from the available routes your trains already make, instead of any destination on the map). Instead of having passengers be picked up from any city and moved to any city, now some of those passengers may have a specific destination in mind. Same thing with cargo, but that gets a bit more hairy and less important since you don't generally care about where the cargo goes (you most likely just pick up from one place, drop off at another, and that's it). This makes it more realistic, and can make passenger gameplay a lot more interesting, since instead of passengers just being an abstract type of cargo that gets picked up at one factory (a city) and dropped off at any another factory (any other city), they may want to go to specific places, and will do things like transfer to other trains in a station that are going where they want to go. There was also another patch called Cargodest that did a very similar thing. Cargodest gave your cargo/passengers specific destinations they wanted to go, and you would have to service their wants. Cargodist just distributed your passengers destinations amongst the cities you already service, so if you only have cities A, B, and C connected, your passengers will always only want to go to one of those three cities, A, B, or C (and could transfer between them if your trains allow that). If you have a train going from A to B, and a separate train going from B to C, then your passengers will be smart enough to go from A to B, hop off, wait for the train from B to C, and get on -- without transfer orders or anything like that. Cargodest (I believe, I haven't played it in like 10 year) would make it so that some of your passengers wanted to go to city D, even if you don't service city D. I believe (and again, 10 years) the other game Simutrans does the cargodest kind of thing, where you may have a mine making coal, and that coal has a specific powerplant to go to in mind, instead of just going to any powerplant. piratepilates fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Apr 1, 2020 |
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Apr 1, 2020 21:02
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Do you want the technical or the feel-good version of what cargodist is? In short, it makes some cargo types pretend to have destinations, and take longer trips and do automatic transfers. This can make it look like passengers travel around your network and change transportation modes, and in general have longer trips. In reality, the cargo packets don't have a fixed destination, basically each packet decides where it wants to go every time it unloads. It does this by looking at the possible destinations from the current station it's at (using the cargo flow graph) and considering the capacity (load) of the path to the possible destiations. From that it decides the destination but more importantly the next hop. When a vehicle arrives to load cargo, the cargo waiting looks at the next stop of the vehicle, and if the vehicle's next stop matches the cargo packet's next hop, that packet can be loaded onto the vehicle. The result is that it on the surface looks like cargo has a destination, but the reality is that things can go in circles moving back and forth, and easily clog the network. I wasn't around when cargodist was merged, but there was also a competing patch called cargodest which did actual destinations for cargo, but supposedly it had its own problems, so cargodist won out. E: Better explanation of the differences above! toiletbrush posted:Yay, this totally fixes the terrible performance of OpenTTD on modern macs! As a weird coincidence I tried playing for the first time in years earlier this week and was sad to see it was still busted, but it's smooth as heck again with this update. It's funny, the results are all over the place. Some say the changes haven't helped at all, and some say the colors have turned terrible after the fix/workaround. The core issue behind the slowness seems to have been macOS doing colorspace conversions for the game graphics, and the fix (as implemented) is to force the game to be considered sRGB colorspace.
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Apr 1, 2020 21:05
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sincx fucked around with this message at 06:06 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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Apr 1, 2020 22:03
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nielsm posted:Do you want the technical or the feel-good version of what cargodist is? quote:It's funny, the results are all over the place. Some say the changes haven't helped at all, and some say the colors have turned terrible after the fix/workaround. Ooh, its dark mode too!
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Apr 1, 2020 22:26
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toiletbrush posted:Thanks! I think I get it now. I've left cargo on 'manual', should mail and passengers be symmetric or asymmetric? I think passengers is recommended symmetric (so passengers going one way will be more inclined to go the other way, like if you're visiting a city, you'll eventually want to take the train the other way to go home to where you started), cargo as asymmetric (cargo going one day doesn't go the other day, coal isn't going to come back from the powerplant to the mine). You can turn off cargodist for cargo, or leave it on, if you just go from Mine -> Powerplant then cargodist won't do anything. I think you can set up like, "sorting terminals", with cargodist on cargo, but that isn't a common thing to do*. * I did it one game when I was playing with a gamescript that added goals for cities, including certain amount of goods going to them to grow the city. I used intermediary terminals to serve multiple cities so I didn't need to do a whole bunch of trains going from, e.g. a food factory, to each city. I remember it turning out not well, but can't remember precisely why.
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Apr 1, 2020 22:35
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sincx posted:Server has been reopened. Oh boy a multiplayer game with my scenie  Will join later. Hope y'all like it
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Apr 2, 2020 01:53
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Version 1.10.1 was just released. Also the server probably needs to be restarted, preferably with trains and ships NewGRFs this time, or vehicles never expire on. In the year 3220 the world has forgotten how to build locomotives.
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Apr 13, 2020 21:27
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I like how the tiniest cities in the region became absolute monstrosities 
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Apr 13, 2020 22:01
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In this world, you can only build trams! Probably check if the option to run time if nobody is logged in is on.
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Apr 13, 2020 22:17
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sincx fucked around with this message at 06:06 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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Apr 13, 2020 22:41
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