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I have genuinely missed Toxx' angry energy.
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Aug 30, 2017 17:10
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I will expect the worst and see what comes of it. I can't be too critical of the game just because of the bullshit that happened to it that wasn't Hussie's fault, but I don't expect it to redefine point and click adventure games.
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Aug 30, 2017 17:13
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If you have decent animations and puzzles that are not as unreasonably stupid as king's quest rumplestiltskin cipher then you've got at least a 4/10 adventure game, I think. I would like to see the game succeed and I think there will be some sales for leaving bad reviews and overreacting to it on streams, but I am expecting the game to be not that great and have a pretty bad story. And yeah, if this guy really compared what will be his first major writing effort to NITW, the story's probably going to be pretty bad. (I just realized I have a trip right after the game's release, so I won't be able to play it and get hot takes in before a consensus is established.)
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Aug 30, 2017 17:31
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Is this undertale?
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Aug 30, 2017 17:34
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this was the first game i backed on kickstarter so im glad it's finally releasing the first part. i enjoy the world and characters and stuff that homestuck had a lot. it's a shame the comic kind of fell apart narrative-wise at the end but the character dialogue was still good it's weird because im still looking forward to this, but, i dont have any real hype for it at this point. its a thing thats coming out that im going to play and i hope its good, and that's about it.
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Aug 30, 2017 17:52
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I have been following this for a little while and have been completely unable to figure out: is Cohen the tweetman's first or last name?
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Aug 30, 2017 17:55
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I sincerely hope that the game is good. Being that it is confined to a set number of acts, maybe it can avoid the pitfalls that Homestuck fell into. Pitfalls like the constant anticlimaxes despite the ever-swelling scope and list of characters, or like actively undoing character development. Homestuck garnered a LOT of ill will in the end, both from fans and haters. It would take an incredible game to overcome that, but I want to believe that it is possible. Now, is that likely? Of course not. But even if it is bad, then reading audience reactions will at least make for an amusing weekend. "Save Homestuck, or put the final nail in its coffin" seems kinda win-win to me. Putting it to rest is only possible when the game finally comes out.
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Aug 30, 2017 17:58
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Honestly I don't even expect this game to be bad. I'm almost positive it won't be good,but it'll be just competent enough to not be terrible.Hemingway To Go! posted:If you have decent animations and puzzles that are not as unreasonably stupid as king's quest rumplestiltskin cipher then you've got at least a 4/10 adventure game, I think. to be fair HE hasn't compared himself to bombsfall, but he's positioning himself as the auteur in complete creative control of the work in the way Benson was for NITW. I compare this to NitW because they are incredibly similar projects- kickstarted adventure games that are the genesis of singular creators, who had never worked on a game before, who are most well known from their Twitter, that suffered numerous delays before releasing. The difference is that Benson is a dude who had a portfolio of work before he did NitW. Sure, its all animation work, but there's a history there, and its compounded by the fact that NitW is a reflection of his opinions and worldview. NITW is a game so about the failures of neoliberalism in rust belt towns and how those towns are doomed to failure even before supernatural poo poo starts happening. These are things that bombsfall constantly tweets about, how socialism is necessary for America moving forward, and he's a funny and insightful dude. His game is a reflection of his politics, and his voice shining through so strongly is partially why NITW is as good as it is. In contrast Cohen is writing an officially sanctioned Homestuck fangame. I mean....that's what this game is. But even beyond that I have read skullmandible tweets and in contrast to Bensons deeply held beliefs Cohen comes off as whiny and almost performatively left, which is also exacerbated by Cohen going off on tweetrants about ultimately innocuous bullshit like the writer of Captain America being too right and also bad at writing, which reads almost as jealous envy. Also like...sorry, but if all you do is write and you're creative director on a project you come off as an Ideas Guy, ESPECIALLY with no work to back it up. Benson is an artist who happens to be a good writer. Cohen's Just Some Dude. I don't think Hiveswap will have any political commentary, because Homestuck was almost pointedly apolitical, even if it does, ill doubt it will be good, because I don't trust skullmandible to implement politics in his work in the nuanced way bombsfall did that was a big reason NITW was as good as it was. Again, I don't think this game will be bad. I think it will be pointless, and mediocre, because skullmandible is super mediocre and he's set this up as a reflection of his viewpoints in the same way bombsfall made NitW a reflection of his. This is compounded by Homestuck, despite all of its numerous faults, being a super singular and specific work, and the creator of Homestuck having no direct involvement in this games development. Also Cohen has always read to me as an entitled prick ever since he drafted that letter sucking himself off and implying that people who want to know about the development status of the game they funded, that had been delayed for years at that point, Were being unreasonable, so gently caress him.
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Aug 30, 2017 18:05
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If that guy and his friend who write funny words on the internet aren't involved in this, then I kind of don't see the point.
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Aug 30, 2017 19:00
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Lick! The! Whisk! posted:I don't think Hiveswap will have any political commentary, because Homestuck was almost pointedly apolitical LoL I certainly don't remember it that way Anyway, maybe we should start linking to these twitter accounts, since part of the reason there's so much ill will is due to people repeating things they've heard other people say without posting sources, and since there are so few sources of information, having at least one place where they're all gathered together would be a good idea.
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Aug 30, 2017 19:41
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i don't have most the most egregious tweets and the reddit posts handy i do have this which is an interesting read kind of.
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Aug 30, 2017 20:16
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This game has been delayed for 3+ years and the thing they're putting out is Part 1 of 4 with a planned separate series called Hauntswitch that will have the other half of the plot and also be in 4 parts. This is a 2 Million dollar+ kickstarted game that was delayed for over 3 years and they've since added in/stretched out the proposed game into even more episodes. They had difficulty finding capital to even finish this one part and that was before the author of the original webcomic poo poo the bed with a year long hiatus that bled the comic of the majority of its fans and poo poo out an ending that got rid of most of the remainders. The other 7 parts of this game will probably never be finished. Do not waste your money, I love you.
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Aug 30, 2017 20:20
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That being said I will be streaming this because I need to bear witness to these sins myself.
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Aug 30, 2017 20:21
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http://twitter.com/skullmandible/status/898673698420293633 i looked at the tweet things as requested, here's ya boi, proto max landis
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Aug 30, 2017 20:23
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its too late to tell anyone whos going to play this game to not buy it, we all bought it in like 2012. that money's been gone for a long time and probably stolen by the king's quest devs
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Aug 30, 2017 20:27
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Did anything else come out about the Odd Gentlemen situation? Last I checked, we only know what we know from a blog post by an associate of Hussie's, and Hussie himself asked for that post to be deleted shortly afterwards. It is clear that the Odd Gentlemen basically dropped the project hard after getting King's Quest, which is definitely a dick move, but I always wonder why things weren't louder by Whatpumpkin if they did run off with all the money (or even some portion of the money, for that matter)
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Aug 30, 2017 21:24
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NDAs and contracts are powerful, powerful things. We will likely never hear more than what we did and we weren't even supposed to hear that.
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Aug 30, 2017 21:31
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IIRC, it's something to do with the way the contract was worded, they could deliver whatever they'd completed up to the point of dropping the contract, which they did, and keep the advance they were given regardless of how much they actually spent on the project, which they did. Of course it's all speculation and there's probably NDA's involved, so truthfully we'll never know, but it's common enough practice that you only need to look at other people's stories to find similar tactics used elsewhere. The full story isn't known but we can guess based on other people's stories. e:f;b
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Aug 30, 2017 21:34
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Burkion posted:NDAs and contracts are powerful, powerful things. SatansBestBuddy posted:IIRC, it's something to do with the way the contract was worded, they could deliver whatever they'd completed up to the point of dropping the contract, which they did, and keep the advance they were given regardless of how much they actually spent on the project, which they did. I remember that post made it sound like they gave them all the money as an advance, which seems...irresponsible. Then again, these were likely stupid kids and/or webcomic people managing Whatpumpkin, so who knows? Anyways, I dropped the comic when the Jigsaw alternate troll was introduced. I have no idea how I got that far past Cascade to be honest.
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Aug 30, 2017 21:40
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Lick! The! Whisk! posted:Yeah iirc cohen was trying to set up his involvement with this game as him being in control of virtually every aspect of its development.he really, really transparently wants to be Scott Benson and this is his "opus", except it's a literal quarter of a game and he has no real skills outside of writing and it's a loving Homestuck fangame, lol, over...you know...Night in the loving Woods SatansBestBuddy posted:LoL Closed-Down Pizza Parlor posted:i didn't see cohen say that but if he did then welp lol okay with doing my utmost not to be  about it, here's what I got from his most recent Twitters.http://twitter.com/skullmandible/status/902739064654143488 Mr. Tweet has been running this show for two and a half years, yet we have frighteningly little to show. http://twitter.com/skullmandible/status/639543008505937920 When it was pointed out to him he got details wrong in his "post-canon content", this was his response. There was another tweet ages ago when Tromp won the Superbowl about how his writing was going to become much more Antifa and Queer, which I think had a bunch of people in the comments saying "Please just make the drat game instead." I am not good with tweeter. Unlucky7 posted:I remember that post made it sound like they gave them all the money as an advance, which seems...irresponsible. Then again, these were likely stupid kids and/or webcomic people managing Whatpumpkin, so who knows? Those weren't trolls - They were Cherubs! Thankfully, Cherubs will be returning to Hiveswap! The Green and Red snake motifs are theirs! Don't worry, though! Calliope is a Cherub Character beloved by all fans, for she is the self-insert of Hiveswap's lead artist, who is beloved by every character she meets, was critical to solving the problems in Homestuck, and ultimately, in the Post Canon Content, seems to have the idyllic life despite having little character to speak of and being instantly beloved by nearly all she talks to!
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Aug 30, 2017 21:53
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In case it isn't abundantly obvious at this point, this thread will be nigh unreadable for a month at least.
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Aug 30, 2017 22:44
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Plom Bar posted:In case it isn't abundantly obvious at this point, this thread will be nigh unreadable for a month at least. Much like homestuck itself lol Beat you fucks to it
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Aug 30, 2017 22:45
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Plom Bar posted:In case it isn't abundantly obvious at this point, this thread will be nigh unreadable for a month at least. Will be?
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Aug 30, 2017 22:46
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a month?
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Aug 31, 2017 00:04
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Blind optimism is sort of my thing
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Aug 31, 2017 00:06
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cheerful pessimism is mine! regardless of game quality this will be a Good and Fun thread, for jubilation or amused misery! think of it as the mass effect: andromeda thread, and PB is our resident positive individual!
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Aug 31, 2017 00:45
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Clawtopsy posted:cheerful pessimism is mine! regardless of game quality this will be a Good and Fun thread, for jubilation or amused misery! think of it as the mass effect: andromeda thread, and PB is our resident positive individual! Now let's be super fair here There's no way this game is going to disappoint people QUITE like Andromeda. For one, they're not even hiding that it's not a complete story!
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Aug 31, 2017 00:47
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Clawtopsy posted:think of it as the mass effect: andromeda thread, and PB is our resident positive individual! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnTnkUXou6g
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Aug 31, 2017 00:57
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Clawtopsy posted:If you have not read it, and feel the sudden desire to, I highly recommend once you reach a flash animation entitled Cascade, you watch it and walk away from the computer imagining that the adventure continues in any way you like! Looking back at the first couple minutes of that and putting myself in the shoes of someone for whom it'd be the first exposure, this is just a completely nonsensical mess. There's no way it can make sense if you don't already know who all these jabronis are and how what they're doing is relevant to anything.
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Aug 31, 2017 11:27
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Cat Mattress posted:Looking back at the first couple minutes of that and putting myself in the shoes of someone for whom it'd be the first exposure, this is just a completely nonsensical mess. There's no way it can make sense if you don't already know who all these jabronis are and how what they're doing is relevant to anything. You're quite correct, which is why I feel L!T!W!/Toxx' post earlier in the thread is spot on. Either this will double down on fanservice (Likely, given the new author) and be incomprehensible to new players, or be completely fresh and utterly fail fans that have been holding on for so long.
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Aug 31, 2017 15:08
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Like, if you're gonna make a Homestuck game, the best option would be just to do a 16-bit style Zeboyd like turn-based game with incredibly convoluted mechanics and stats for the most inane nonsense. Have it take place during the Trolls' game, have that form the basic framework, but since we know how that ends have it halfway through be revealed to be a fanfiction one of the kids is coding in their spare time. Start messing up canon, altering events, have it end with a big meta threat (Lord English is IN THE GAME) and have a final boss like Undertale's, with an anticlimax ending where, I dunno, the game crashes and the game developer is Hussie and he flips a table and walks away with all your money. That's what I wanted. Hell make the game have a genuinely robust crafting system like what you get in the gently caress It, Let's Be Santa bits.
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Aug 31, 2017 15:14
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Man, it never would have happened in that case. Point and Click is about as complicated as they could have made it and have any hope of releasing it. Plus, it honestly is sort of the inspiration for Homestuck to begin with. So it makes sense why they did it in this game style.
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Aug 31, 2017 15:33
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I'm more interested in all the story of the game then the game itself. I was around since the start of Problem Sleuth and read all of that. Got caught up in homestuck for the longest time as well but my interest dropped because things just dragged on forever and then the giga pause happened. By the time it came back I lost all interest and just kinda skimmed/sporadically read what was in front of me just because I wanted to see how the stupid thing ended- and shocker it sucked rear end and everyone I know thought it was junk so I didn't even have anyone positive to bounce off. After that I stopped caring and forgot about it all. I haven't even been to the site since the finale. Yesterday a friend sent me the trailer for this thing and reminded me it even exists. I kinda liked the style of it at least? I thought the art was nice and the low framerate animations felt somewhat fitting from the point and click games I remember playing when I was younger. "I wonder if this'll be good." After reading this thread I'm just confused, so the timeline basically goes >Launch Kickstarter >Andrew delays the comic like a million times to work on game >Get robbed by Gentleman >Andrew gives up and destroy the comic (Hyperbole I know) >Andrew then vanishes off the face of the planet, takes the money and runs >Some fan gets handed the assets and is told to do "whatever". >Andrew is just *gone* Do I have that right? Is Toby still making music for the game?
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Aug 31, 2017 15:50
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I don't really know Homestuck, but I'm curious, why did people hate the ending so much? Just because it's impossible to end a long running series like that in a way that pleases people?
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Aug 31, 2017 15:57
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Cuntellectual posted:I don't really know Homestuck, but I'm curious, why did people hate the ending so much? Just because it's impossible to end a long running series like that in a way that pleases people? I think the ending is quite good and fine. The problem is that for three years leading up to the ending, the plot started and restarted a number of times to introduce a massive amount of completely pointless characters and character threads that just dragged an already dragged-out story waaaaaay longer. I just stopped reading around the time everyone got into a boat to go someplace, and I checked in every once in awhile and it was like, there's a dozen more trolls and there's dead trolls and ghost trolls and every single page has 40,000 words The vibe is so cool and neat for the first two years or so. The plot sort of shudders when the trolls get introduced and you have to go through 12 loving introduction sequences and learn all about these off-brand Klingons and it doesn't really seem to go anywhere and it takes away the momentum from the adventures of the kids we already liked and there was no music or animated bits for ages. It's still a great example of a piece of media that could only exist online, but Problem Sleuth maintained the "user-generated" sense and managed to wrap itself up in a really satisfying way. I guess the reason I want an RPG rather than an adventure game is that my favorite part of Homestuck and Problem Sleuth are/were the completely absurd battle sequences where characters power up with pumpkins which rot over successive turns.
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Aug 31, 2017 16:03
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Cuntellectual posted:I don't really know Homestuck, but I'm curious, why did people hate the ending so much? Just because it's impossible to end a long running series like that in a way that pleases people? Everybody died horribly. John Egbert literally retconed the whole comic to make it so everybody doesn't die horribly. This resulted in years of character development being flushed down the drain, previously big deal events not mattering at all, a whole mess of plotholes, and a super boring, generic brawl to end things when Homestuck never used to do generic, boring or brawls. The visual metaphor of a writer painting himself into a corner was solved by repainting the whole loving floor, and now it clashes with the walls and was super rushed and wasn't sealed properly so there's obviously missed spots and parts of it are peeling off with age. Then he sold the house.
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Aug 31, 2017 16:10
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SatansBestBuddy posted:Everybody died horribly. why did anyone want the whole cast to die horribly? Why did people like Vriska she's an unrepentant murderous rear end in a top hat and I waited way too long to see her loving die. The ending Homestuck got was the ending I thought was obviously what it was going to get -- a lot of nonsensical flash and bang and a new world is made. Expecting it to end as a tragedy flies in the face of the whole premise.
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Aug 31, 2017 16:13
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SatansBestBuddy posted:Everybody died horribly. More obnoxiously, characters in the final stretch turned into mouthpieces for the author trying to weakly justify the increasingly sloppy plotting and retcons as postmodern defiance of classic storytelling tropes or something. One line that made a lot of people blow their tops, me included, was "real people don't have arcs." It was said in the context of justifying why so many of the characters in that story ultimately did nothing and went nowhere. Homestuck made its bones on subversion and innovation, but towards the end it increasingly used those things as a shield, basically saying that it was too clever to actually tell a proper story. Its addiction to irony and anticlimax got so out of control that it never allowed its readers any catharsis, so the whole ending sequence felt more like a bad joke played on people who had stuck with it for so long.
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Aug 31, 2017 16:27
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8-Bit Scholar posted:why did anyone want the whole cast to die horribly? nobody wanted that having it happen was pretty bad but then, instead of going back to stop that one bad instance of poo poo going off the rails, John goes back and rewrites the whole of Act 6 as never having happened like he made it so there was literally a straight line to the goal and all anybody had to do was fight some guys, which was a really boring way of ending everything including bringing back Vriska, again there's a lot of bad parts to the ending that contribute to make it the weakest part of Homestuck, but I think you can safely point to John's rectonning the storyline to erase Act 6 as the single point where everything awful about the ending concentrates Oxxidation posted:Homestuck made its bones on subversion and innovation, but towards the end it increasingly used those things as a shield, basically saying that it was too clever to actually tell a proper story. I remember at some point in the comics thread that somebody said it almost seems like Hussie is afraid to commit to emotional resolutions SatansBestBuddy fucked around with this message at 16:31 on Aug 31, 2017 |
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Aug 31, 2017 16:27
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8-Bit Scholar posted:why did anyone want the whole cast to die horribly? I was happy with GAME OVER because it did an excellent job of showing what a dead timeline looked like, and how tragic. The problem is that after John's reset, the characters were less interesting, because their character development had been left behind in the dead timeline. It's fine if Vriska takes over leadership from Karkat, but you need to show why. It's okay if the Jade/John/Davesprite section is lost, but in the new narrative Jade is completely irrelevant *and* we lose some great comedy bits. And so on. A few of the characters got compensating screen time -- R3M3M83R is excellent -- but most of them just turned into mush. e:f,b
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Aug 31, 2017 16:30
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