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I actually like your reviews so I'm glad you're making your own thread for them. It probably won't reduce my enjoyment of authors I like, such as Abercrombie, but it'll still be interesting to read.
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Sep 9, 2017 17:44
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Is the BBC Ghormenghast show any good? I stumbled on it a while ago but the first episode was a bit too weird for me. It definitely is otherwordly, it feels like a dream.
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Sep 14, 2017 01:12
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While all the criticism in this thread probably won't make me enjoy these books any less (if I've read them) I am really enjoying the discussion. Good critique of Banks though calling them "redundant and sleazily exploitative adventure fiction novels" is a bit much. Maybe he just doesn't think a liberal utopia is possible and his novels reflect that. Maybe we live in a universe where not everything is possible and a liberal utopia is one of those impossibilities.
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Sep 29, 2017 04:46
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It really depends on the kind of book you're trying to write. JS&MR is, as you said, more poetic. It's concerned less with setting up and paying off a plot than it is with exploring characters, developing the world, and investigating English identity. The magic is comically powerful in some places, able to easily move cities from one continent to another in the blink of an eye, which would be catastrophic for the plot in a book like Sanderson's. But in Clarke's book it somehow works because of the poetic logic. The TV adaption actually toned down the magic considerably, probably because it couldn't attain that same level of poetic logic on screen (and to save on VFX). Ccs fucked around with this message at 04:47 on Oct 7, 2017 |
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Oct 7, 2017 00:51
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Few, if any, authors in the field would dare to write such a figure. Audiences have been subjected to such a number of dark, subversive anti-heroes who challenge morality and common decency that Chanticleer’s bourgeois respectability now seems more audacious than, for example, the trashy nihilism of Joe Abercrombie or Mark Lawrence. Would writers in 1926 dare to write such a figure? The way you phrased this made me think this was a contemporary book written as a kind of challenge to grimdark fantasy. Instead it's a fantasy published a decade before The Hobbit. It sounds like an interesting novel but I wouldn't call writing a character like this daring unless no one else was writing this kind of character at the time.
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Nov 14, 2017 04:57
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Not if the truly great works of art aren't as entertaining as the trashy books. If they are, then great!
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Nov 15, 2017 04:56
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Normal Adult Human posted:I let out a belching guffaw when thinking on the plight of The Gamer who defines the value of art based on the duration which it can hold their attention, and how this scale places the worst novella far above the most grand painting. I wasn't talking about entertainment in terms of how long it holds attention though. That would be a dumb way to rate things. I'm also not saying the entertaining things have more value as art.
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Dec 11, 2017 04:04
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Silver2195 posted:I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not. BoTL is trolling more often than not. It's why he gets probated so often.
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Dec 13, 2017 23:59
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Most peasant revolts and revolutions in history weren't actually started by the peasants though, they're led into action by radical clerics or former officers who are down on their luck after a war.
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Feb 25, 2018 19:32
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:CK2 player spotted I don't know what that is. I'm going by histories of peasants revolts, like the Great Rising in 1381, the German Peasants War in 1524, and the Flanders revolt in 1323. There's exception of course. There was a successful Japanese peasant revolt in which what was basically a union revolted and got their debts cancelled.
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Feb 25, 2018 20:33
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No of course you need the peasants who have grievances to make up the body of the rebellion, but the leaders are usually people who have educated understanding of strategy or a bigger economic stake in the rebellion than the average peasant. Or, like clerics, are able to articulate a moral reason for rebellion. This reminds me of a class I took in college where people were trying to come up with a solution to terrorism. The go to answer among 18-year olds is always "more education!" until you realize that the people who lead terrorist movements are usually highly educated.
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Feb 26, 2018 00:57
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It's a very halting style.
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Mar 9, 2018 22:54
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hackbunny posted:What is literary criticism for, though? Why should anyone read it? I think authors should read it so they know what work and what doesn't work when they write their own stories. For example reading criticisms of Rothfuss or Ernest Cline's books gives me a sense of all the pitfalls that successful writers fall into that weaken their characters, world, sense of narrative tension, ease of reading, etc. etc. And also so they learn what is successful but done to death, so maybe they try to bring something new to the table. It also brings to light books that you might never have known about. I wouldn't be reading Lud in the Mist right now if it weren't for this thread.
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Mar 14, 2018 21:44
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BotL is the only actually posting critiques in this thread and his posts are a mix of literary criticism and review. When I'm talking about critique in this context I'm talking about the type of critiques that the thread originator is posting. Even if you look for definitions of literacy criticism, a lot draw no distinction between it and review. The biggest difference is that reviews are of one book at a time, while criticism can encompass an author's whole oeuvre. "More strictly construed, the term covers only what has been called “practical criticism,” the interpretation of meaning and the judgment of quality. " "The functions of literary criticism vary widely, ranging from the reviewing of books as they are published to systematic theoretical discussion. " https://www.britannica.com/art/literary-criticism Ccs fucked around with this message at 23:51 on Mar 14, 2018 |
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Mar 14, 2018 23:40
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That sounds like a good shorthand to me. Also that Pooh's Perplex book looks hilarious. My toughest professor in college was a big proponent of New Criticism. His rage at how people were interpreting TS Eliot wrong with their silly post-colonial and gendered lenses was the subject of a lot of lectures. A Postmodern Pooh also looks good. Ccs fucked around with this message at 00:53 on Mar 15, 2018 |
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Mar 15, 2018 00:51
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Do any branches of Critical Theory concentrate on whether the text works in a dramatic sense? Like how effectively it manages tension, or develops characters, or establishes themes? Viewing the text as a piece of art, not a product. But using those metrics to determine of what quality the art is.
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Mar 15, 2018 03:27
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TheGreatEvilKing posted:That's not true, I have a Weber rant on I think page 3? Ah cool, you should do more. BotL's reviews are rare, especially when he gets probated for weeks.
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Mar 16, 2018 00:17
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So at one point you must have enjoyed these books, to go through reading them. What sharpened your views? Grad school? Age? Or are you just reading them now in order to write critiques? Because I gotta say, that's an ordeal.
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Mar 23, 2018 22:27
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Wow BotL really can't go a day without being probated. I hope he's spending some of this time working on more book takedowns.
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May 27, 2018 17:16
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I never read TCW as a kid but I did read this similar book called "The Lottery" which is not the short story by Shirley Jackson: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/293724.The_Lottery Similar situation with bullying and evil student council. My school didn't have a student council so I had no idea what that was about, but calling something the "Shadow Council" sounds cool. I have vivid memories of it but I have no idea if the writing still holds up. Probably not.
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Jun 7, 2018 01:39
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Huh, I didn't expect BotL's first review in so long to be about that book. I read it once for a bioethics class. Thought it was alright, preferred Brave New World.
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Jun 10, 2018 00:26
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BotL what do you think about Gene Wolfe? I recently finished Book of the New Sun and thought it was pretty incredible. Hard to find anyone with a negative view of his work.
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Jul 12, 2018 22:42
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Yeah a favorite bit of mine was how it can be read like a fantasy book but the sci-fi aspects aren't really hidden. They're there from the beginning, it's just that Severian doesn't have the context to describe them in ways that would make us clearly see them as sci-fi. And that's all secondary to the labyrinthine allusions and cosmology that Severian sometimes grasps but mostly just relates without ever understanding his role in the story. You're left wondering whether the book is religious in nature or if the religious epiphanies that the protagonist has are due to his interaction with natural forces far beyond his understanding. A reason why I think it's be interesting to hear BotL try to criticize it is because of the wealth of academic criticism (compared to most sci-fi/fantasy books) that exist for BotNS: https://www.amazon.ca/Between-Light-Shadow-Exploration-Fiction-ebook/dp/B011YTDGY2 https://www.amazon.com/Attending-Daedalus-Artifice-Liverpool-University/dp/B005Q7GMRW https://www.amazon.ca/Solar-Labyrinth-Exploring-Gene-Wolfes/dp/0595317294 If BotL can read Book of the New Sun and come up with a compelling reason as to why all of these critics are wasting their time trying to analyze a bad piece of literature, that would be interesting to read. It would mean he's a really smart critic. And if he actually enjoys the books, great! It means Gene Wolfe really is that good.
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Jul 13, 2018 23:35
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Ehh, Wolfe is basically the same as ghormenghast and y'all loved that poo poo How so?
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Jul 14, 2018 02:14
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I'm a big fan of the redesigns, though they look straight out of a Genndy Tartakovsky adaption. The cover for Shadow and Claw is also very good.
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Jul 14, 2018 22:20
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There's also the Yoshitaka Amano versions. https://twitter.com/JohnImadNasr/status/987647364050640902
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Jul 15, 2018 00:01
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Not even being snide but I have no idea what you are trying to say here He's saying a book having aliens in it doesn't automatically reduce its quality.
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Jul 16, 2018 01:23
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Mel Mudkiper posted:I don't think anyone asserted it does On page 26 of this thread someone said that critics are wasting their time with any books involving "spaceships and laserguns."
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Jul 16, 2018 02:51
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I've not read any Eco but a lot of my favorite authors cite him as their major inspiration, such as Rhys Hughes. http://rhyshughes.blogspot.com/
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Jul 16, 2018 21:45
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:"I am a writer of Fantasy and Magic Realism who often uses comedy and absurdism to examine philosophical issues. I am known for my original ideas, intricate plots and entertaining wordplay! I write short stories, novellas and novels. To a lesser extent I write poetry and non-fiction. I sometimes say that writing is the only thing I'm good at. I try to make that sound like a joke, but I don't think it is... I really am mediocre at most things, but my passion for writing keeps growing stronger!" You sure quoted his author bio there. I think his work is great. What would you expect out of an author bio? "I suck, but please still read my work?"
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Jul 16, 2018 23:43
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So his author bio should be quotes of other people saying how he is good? Isn't that what blurbs are for, not author bios?
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Jul 16, 2018 23:48
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If you want you can read some of his stories here: http://platinumass.blogspot.com/ If you want to try out one of his books I recommend this one: http://www.tartaruspress.com/hughes-the-smell-of-telescopes.html
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Jul 17, 2018 01:38
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Cool, different tastes. Better to dislike an author's work based on his writing than his author bio.
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Jul 17, 2018 02:08
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Shark Sandwich posted:Agreed. I want to know his stance on prancing about shirtless in a fuligin cloak. I went looking for some Gene Wolfe critique and found some here: https://www.waggish.org/2007/gene-wolfe-the-book-of-the-new-sun/ https://www.waggish.org/2007/more-on-gene-wolfe/ http://thesometime.com/blog/a-rigor-of-chessmasters-not-of-angels-gene-wolfe-and-literature-as-puzzle/ It boils down to them accusing Wolfe of treating his books as a puzzle, and "subordinates thematic and conceptual integrity to the mere challenge of these games." I think it's more interesting to consider what role religion plays in the story, where Wolfe is presenting us with a seemingly religious universe only for everything to actually be natural and scientifically explained. The same way that the text seems like a fantasy novel and first and is revealed as science fiction. Severian's epiphany about the increate after he just got off a ship talking to time-traveling aliens shows how he misses the point. He can't conceive of a universe without God, even he has just been shown that most of his experiences have been managed by natural beings with near-godlike powers. But people like to focus on the unreliable narrator aspect. Which makes sense since Wolfe must have put a lot of effort into tracking when he reveals certain facts and then when he contradicts those same revelations. Here's a slightly more positive review from a philosophy professor & author, responding to one of the above critiques: http://spurious.typepad.com/spurious/2007/11/i-like-waggishs.html Ccs fucked around with this message at 04:00 on Jul 18, 2018 |
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Jul 18, 2018 03:52
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chernobyl kinsman posted:for real man if you want all that then quit being a loving child and read some real literature I had to read lots of real literature as an English undergrad. These days I prefer spaceships and magic. Though I plan to read A Man Without Qualities to see what all the fuss is about. my bony fealty posted:My fav puzzle box story is Pale Fire what's yours?? I love Pale Fire, but one of the Wolfe critiques I posted actually notes this comparison but says Wolfe is "All Kinbote, without Shade's poetry." Ccs fucked around with this message at 22:06 on Jul 18, 2018 |
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Jul 18, 2018 22:02
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my bony fealty posted:To me Wolfe is dense and opaque and highly allusive but I don't consider that a "puzzle." Like hes not sitting there writing whilst cackling "ha ha these pathetic readers will never figure out my grand design!!" The Waggish critique points out that Wolfe talks about clues in his books a lot in interviews and "This talk of clues and confusion makes me suspect that yes, Wolfe does expect the reader to figure it out, and that the lacunae in his work are not meant to sustain indeterminacy, but to provide a framework for the reader to explore in search of answers." I suppose sustaining indeterminacy would elevate the text, making Wolfe a sort of sci-fi Nabakov, as opposed to the critic's view of him as a machine-maker. "Wolfe was an industrial engineer by training and profession, and as with much science-fiction, a particular sort of engineer’s attitude goes into the functional and architectural construction of his work, and these attitudes are reflected in the methodologies of Severian and Silk. Like many of his characters, Wolfe’s books are machines, and it is only when looking for the animating spirit that one runs into trouble with them." I don't know if I agree with these critiques. I really liked Book of the New Sun, though my enjoyment was based on a lot of more basic things like plot, character, and setting details, and how convincingly they were written.
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Jul 18, 2018 22:28
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I have a terrible sense for poetry so when I read Pale Fire I couldn't figure out if Shade's poem is actually good (though because it's written by Nabakov I assumed it is) whereas the Kinbote stuff was gripping and hilarious. However the tonal and interpretive contrast between Shade and Kinbote's writing is part of what makes the book great so taking Shade out of the equation would definitely diminish the quality of the text. Which is maybe what that reviewer is getting at. Btw Aurbach is also a big of of BotL favorite "The Man Without Qualities". https://www.waggish.org/2013/the-world-as-metaphor-in-the-man-without-qualities/ Though that book also has incest in it.
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Jul 19, 2018 22:35
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I think a lot of authors like to fill books with clues and have them discovered, even if some critics see that as a juvenile pursuit. Nabakov said Pale Fire "is full of plums that I keep hoping somebody will find."
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Jul 20, 2018 01:01
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I tried to read "Count to a Trillion" by Wright because the blurb sounded good. I quit halfway through. What a boring book with such tired ideas and characters. Dude also looks like a classic "m'lady" fedora guy.
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Jul 20, 2018 03:57
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Weird my copy has a more zoomed in version of that image. Yeah the cover for Sword and Citadel with the big blue guy riding a horse is very odd. The illustration style is still cool though. I'm glad the cultured literati of this thread are trying out Wolfe. I look forward to hearing their impressions. Also the Blackwater book you're talking about is this one right? http://www.valancourtbooks.com/blackwater-1983.html Isn't horror also... genre?
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Jul 20, 2018 22:12
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