Bonfire of the Genres: Critical Looks Sci-Fi and Fantasy

The Something Awful Forums > Archives > Comedy Goldmine > The Goodmine > Bonfire of the Genres: Critical Looks Sci-Fi and Fantasy

anilEhilated: Feb 17, 2014; But I say fuck the rain.; Grimey Drawer

If you're fishing for sci-fi, how about Use of Weapons by Banks? SF thread loves him, he's got a thread of his own and is usually considered one of the staples of space opera; this book in particular tends to be hailed as "this is how you do a plot twist" in genre.

Looking forward to hearing why no one in their right mind should enjoy S'teve'n E'rik'son._{_{(I do)}}

# ¿ Sep 9, 2017 18:18

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ May 21, 2024 23:10

anilEhilated: Feb 17, 2014; But I say fuck the rain.; Grimey Drawer

Oh, hey, I recommended this earlier on. To be fair even his fans consider this one to be by far his weakest.

# ¿ Sep 24, 2017 19:47

anilEhilated: Feb 17, 2014; But I say fuck the rain.; Grimey Drawer

Well, my info mostly comes from the local SF&F thread which usually recommends skipping it and starting from the second book in the series.

# ¿ Sep 24, 2017 20:38

anilEhilated: Feb 17, 2014; But I say fuck the rain.; Grimey Drawer

The best way to realize Sanderson's rule is bullshit is to read a book of his. Any one will do.

# ¿ Oct 6, 2017 22:47

anilEhilated: Feb 17, 2014; But I say fuck the rain.; Grimey Drawer

A lot of the customs and behaviors it mocks are pretty universal.

# ¿ Oct 9, 2017 12:20

anilEhilated: Feb 17, 2014; But I say fuck the rain.; Grimey Drawer

I'm currently reading Cugel's Saga for the first time and I'm not even sure on the "likable" bit. Guy is an rear end in a top hat. Entertaining, sure, but an rear end in a top hat nonetheless.

# ¿ Oct 20, 2017 18:24

anilEhilated: Feb 17, 2014; But I say fuck the rain.; Grimey Drawer

I think he generally goes for things that have a fanbase here and the genre threads are pretty much in agreement that Simmons is poo poo and his one enjoyable book, Hyperion, was a total fluke.

# ¿ Nov 15, 2017 09:30

anilEhilated: Feb 17, 2014; But I say fuck the rain.; Grimey Drawer

Yeah, OK, I actually enjoyed a fair bit of The Terror myself. Simmons can kinda work as long as you skip the actual explanations of things, those always end up disappointing.

# ¿ Nov 15, 2017 10:56

anilEhilated: Feb 17, 2014; But I say fuck the rain.; Grimey Drawer

Have you actually read the Khaavren books or is that based on their premise only?

anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 13:01 on Dec 13, 2017

# ¿ Dec 9, 2017 18:44

anilEhilated: Feb 17, 2014; But I say fuck the rain.; Grimey Drawer

Shark Sandwich posted:

Fifth Head of Cerberus is probably the best Wolfe book because it�s just three connected novellas and like most sf writers his shorter stuff is better imo

It's definitely the best My First Wolfe, maybe along with Sorceror's House. Either would be a great BotM candidate.

# ¿ Jul 19, 2018 14:53

anilEhilated: Feb 17, 2014; But I say fuck the rain.; Grimey Drawer

That or Fifth Head.

# ¿ Jul 20, 2018 13:56

anilEhilated: Feb 17, 2014; But I say fuck the rain.; Grimey Drawer

Shark Sandwich posted:

Yeah but he has two men fight each other with space flowers!!!!

I honestly think Severian is meant to be dumb as bricks and trying to sound smart. He�s the large adult son of the torturers thinking he�s a badass hero when he�s just a moron loving and fighting across the Commonwealth and is only relevant to more powerful beings due to the oddity of time travel

Yeah, that's mostly Urth stuff, though. I believe the key feature of Severian's narration is simply that he's not as smart as he thinks he is and definitely not as smart as he's trying to portray himself; the other forces at play do not become immediately obvious... Or relevant.

anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 12:30 on Jul 21, 2018

# ¿ Jul 21, 2018 12:25

anilEhilated: Feb 17, 2014; But I say fuck the rain.; Grimey Drawer

Mel Mudkiper posted:

I mean, it's not like other writers havent tackled unreliable and pompous narrators who over-estimate their own intelligence while still practicing an element of craft.

Humbert Humbert is the king of self-praising unreliable narrators and Lolita is arguably the best written book in English

Oh, I'm not implying that it's unique, just that it is something to keep in mind. It's similar with the same-ish dialogue - because Wolfe can do different voices; it could clue you in to the fact that a]Severian's memory is not quite as amazing as he's trying to sell it, b]he's not very interested in other people and what they say although does go quite a way to try to convince the reader otherwise.

# ¿ Jul 21, 2018 16:04

anilEhilated: Feb 17, 2014; But I say fuck the rain.; Grimey Drawer

Mel Mudkiper posted:

I find it unlikely and tiresome that every weakness in the prose is being excused as "it's because hes such an amazing writer his prose is bad"

And that's on first book of four!

# ¿ Jul 21, 2018 16:31

anilEhilated: Feb 17, 2014; But I say fuck the rain.; Grimey Drawer

Wheat Loaf posted:

What do folks in this thread think of Philip Jos� Farmer?

In one word: ugh.
Speaking as a genre-reading pleb.

anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Jul 22, 2018

# ¿ Jul 22, 2018 19:47

anilEhilated: Feb 17, 2014; But I say fuck the rain.; Grimey Drawer

Sham bam bamina! posted:

Myst is every bit the equal of Invisible Cities.

So what is the Dark Souls of literature?

anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Jul 24, 2018

# ¿ Jul 24, 2018 20:36

anilEhilated: Feb 17, 2014; But I say fuck the rain.; Grimey Drawer

Ben Nerevarine posted:

Gormenghast?

Eh, to put the joke into perspective: Dark Souls is a really good game that suffers from:

1) utterly batshit fanbase constantly willing to fanatically fight over their pet theories regarding the somewhat ambiguously told stories,

2) being cited as an artistic, mechanical or storytelling influence to every other game out there, including those that came out before it,

3) having actual gameplay based on dying and retrying over and over against traps and enemies until you memorize their patterns and learn how to exploit them.

...Come to think of it, the Dark Souls of literature might actually be genre fiction.

# ¿ Jul 24, 2018 23:06

anilEhilated: Feb 17, 2014; But I say fuck the rain.; Grimey Drawer

Now, for the advanced course in idiocy google rabid puppies.

# ¿ Jul 30, 2018 13:31

anilEhilated: Feb 17, 2014; But I say fuck the rain.; Grimey Drawer

Viriconium or bust.

# ¿ Aug 23, 2018 20:12

anilEhilated: Feb 17, 2014; But I say fuck the rain.; Grimey Drawer

TheGreatEvilKing posted:

So am I debating doing an honest-to-god effortpost on Lord Foul's Bane because I stumbled on it in my Kindle library. Any interest?

Fairly sure it's hated even among the genre fans but don't let that stop you.

# ¿ Jan 4, 2019 12:58

anilEhilated: Feb 17, 2014; But I say fuck the rain.; Grimey Drawer

Kevin

Here's what I (in full admittance to being a fantasy genre reader) really can't forgive this series: it's incredibly loving generic. Maybe it wasn't when it was written, but I still suspect just grabbing Tolkien and taking all the myth and awe out of it was a bad idea even back then. There is nothing intriguing, original or thought-provoking in Donaldson's fantasy world. gently caress, he can't even come up with interesting monsters.

Also there's clench racing.

anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 16:10 on Jan 5, 2019

# ¿ Jan 5, 2019 16:02

anilEhilated: Feb 17, 2014; But I say fuck the rain.; Grimey Drawer

That doesn't make it good, interesting, enjoyable or anything else positive you could reasonably expect from a fantasy novel.

# ¿ Jan 6, 2019 19:50

anilEhilated: Feb 17, 2014; But I say fuck the rain.; Grimey Drawer

ShinsoBEAM! posted:

It's almost like this is why most even genre fans don't like these books. Just the people who like them tend to be more vocal than the crowd who doesn't.

Obviously, but the point is that trying to "take a giant poo poo on the fantasy genre" does in no way constitute a valid excuse.

# ¿ Jan 6, 2019 22:04

anilEhilated: Feb 17, 2014; But I say fuck the rain.; Grimey Drawer

Strom Cuzewon posted:

Even goon novel Baru Cormorant falls into the trap of fantasy bloat. It has a perfectly fine ending (more than fine, I loved it) that it then wrecks by forcing room for a sequel. The sequel is probably just a great, but I liked how contained the novel was.

Good news: I'm fairly sure Battuta announced it's going to be a tetralogy since he ran out of space or something.
Which reminds me I still need to read the second one.

# ¿ Jan 19, 2019 11:32

anilEhilated: Feb 17, 2014; But I say fuck the rain.; Grimey Drawer

Speaking of fantasy trying to be literature, anyone willing to patiently explain why I should stop liking Viriconium?
(or any, y'know, other attempt to get this back on track to bitching about books as opposed to bitching about people)

# ¿ Feb 6, 2019 08:59

anilEhilated: Feb 17, 2014; But I say fuck the rain.; Grimey Drawer

pikachode posted:

has anyone itt read much valente? i've only read deathless which i liked a lot, but her other books are hard to find here so i've only heard about them from others

Orphan's Tales are great if you're willing to accept that the idea was to write her own Arabian Nights and mash together multiple folklores to do it. They're basically cross-cultural fairy tales.

# ¿ Feb 6, 2019 09:11

anilEhilated: Feb 17, 2014; But I say fuck the rain.; Grimey Drawer

All your questions are answered in Dante's Inferno: the videogame.

Very much a real thing. Includes punching Satan in the dick.

# ¿ Feb 10, 2019 12:11

anilEhilated: Feb 17, 2014; But I say fuck the rain.; Grimey Drawer

lofi posted:

Assassin's Creed: Inferno, coming soon.

You're joking but that -sans some text- is literally the cover of an existing game.

# ¿ Feb 10, 2019 14:10

anilEhilated: Feb 17, 2014; But I say fuck the rain.; Grimey Drawer

TheGreatEvilKing posted:

Incidentally I'm finally able to articulate why the Baru series annoyed me so much.

It's Ayn Rand, but for white progressives.

Come on, the monologues aren't anywhere as bad.

# ¿ Feb 15, 2019 18:32

anilEhilated: Feb 17, 2014; But I say fuck the rain.; Grimey Drawer

He's just trying to fill a botl-shaped vacuum.

To not just bring this back to personal shitflinging - am I correct in assuming that there are two **** of Kings books currently being roasted? Because I can't really see the difference and Sanderson teaches writing; isn't the other guy one of his breed? Are they multiplying now?

Alternatively: how can hacks (who get mocked even by the genre fans) like Sanderson and Rothfuss teach writing in the first place?

anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 14:25 on Mar 3, 2019

# ¿ Mar 3, 2019 14:20

anilEhilated: Feb 17, 2014; But I say fuck the rain.; Grimey Drawer

Fampyrs?

# ¿ Mar 3, 2019 14:35

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ May 21, 2024 23:10

anilEhilated: Feb 17, 2014; But I say fuck the rain.; Grimey Drawer

Antivehicular posted:

Re: Atwood -- I liked The Handmaid's Tale in high school, and I think I read some short stories of hers that were okay, but I tried The Heart Goes Last a few years ago and gave up when it started turning into bad sex farce. Is there any other of her stuff that's any good?

I liked Alias Grace but that's no guarantee of quality. Plus it's not fantasy. Oryx and Crake felt pretty good too but hey, it's already got the Seal of Disapproval.

# ¿ Mar 9, 2019 11:10

The Something Awful Forums > Archives > Comedy Goldmine > The Goodmine > Bonfire of the Genres: Critical Looks Sci-Fi and Fantasy