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just another posted:Or take the time to explain why what you're saying is bad, is actually bad. Or explain what you think good literature is or accomplishes. Right now you're just using pejoratives and begging the question. That's about 50% of all literary criticism, though. Someone dislikes <thing>, and will tell you about it in a couple thousand words, but is highly resistant to explaining why <thing> is actually objectively bad other than projecting motives onto the author.
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Sep 12, 2017 08:40
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Someone likes <thing>, and will tell you about it in a couple thousand words, but is highly resistant to explaining why <thing> is actually objectively good other than projecting motives onto the author. This is also lovely, and a huge factor of why most newspaper book critics were terrible.
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Sep 12, 2017 11:31
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Atlas Hugged posted:This is literally the argument I've had ad nauseam in Trad Games over whether or not we can be critical of a game people think is "fun" to play. As far as I can tell, people decide they like a thing for whatever reason, be it social pressure or personal taste, and once they've decided they like it they don't want to consider the possibility that it fails at doing what it sets out to do well. It could also be that you need to better articulate why and how you think that game could be better. Make a persuasive argument rather than just announce judgement on <thing> which they enjoy to whatever degree. Mel Mudkiper posted:you keep tossing insults without exactly explaining what a reading that assumes the author provides in terms of critical value that a reading that does not assume the author lacks Honestly, that's pretty much the norm in lit crit where the SF/Fantasy ghetto is concerned. People hate to speak to the work in any kind of detail, as opposed to their opinions of the genre they perceive it to be in.
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Sep 12, 2017 15:02
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Atlas Hugged posted:Nah, it's the one I said. One of the points we make repeatedly is that just blanket declaring something good or bad is pointless. We have actual metrics to use, things that can be supported with evidence and statistics and the response is either, "I acknowledge this but I'm not going to play a different game because this is what's popular where I live," (so social pressure to like it) or, "Ignore that stuff and just have fun man," which is the game equivalent of "turn your brain off". I think you have somehow missed out on the entire concept that you cannot dictate taste. People like bad things sometimes. Unless they simply have such a shallow exposure that they have never encountered any alternative you are rarely going to change their mind by telling them these things are bad. They are generally well aware and enjoy them anyway.
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Sep 12, 2017 16:23
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Atlas Hugged posted:At no point have I ever said you can't like a thing. This idea that your tastes somehow shield something you like from criticism is bonkers. Your criticism may be relevant, insightful, and accurate (and honestly probably is, there is so much bad TG). This does not oblige them to care, though. uberkeyzer posted:The last two Hugo winners were written by a woman who is also a person of color, and are about many of the things you talk about in your first paragraph, such as feminism, the exploitation of the female body, the exploitation of the black body, overcoming societal programming and self-actualization, and the way this is passed down from mother to daughter. But don't let me interrupt you, you're on quite a roll. Leckie had some pretty interesting things to say about imperialism via her Imperial Radch series, but even more interesting she used the conceit of using female pronouns instead of male as the 'default' combined with strategically vague character descriptions to play with the gender assumptions the reader makes. It's rather subtle and the story is made more interesting because of it. Liquid Communism fucked around with this message at 09:16 on Sep 13, 2017 |
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Sep 13, 2017 08:59
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