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selec
Sep 6, 2003

Oxxidation posted:

I keep trying to tell myself that too, but then I look at the current state of the DSA and come away unconvinced. The entire portion of the political spectrum is completely impotent in anything except hot takes, and so they gravitate to whatever lets them keep making one-liners above all else.

It's wild how an organization with only 30,000 members had somehow set up an entire rainbow gathering in your head.

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selec
Sep 6, 2003

re: The DSA doing things

"They've only accomplished maybe one thing!" is a silly, untrue statement.

Most DSA chapters are focused on building power locally right now. So you have things like taillight clinics, which are working to both help people materially (because hey free taillight fix) and also reduce the impact of policing on the poorest communities, reducing the openings the police have to intrude into their lives by fixing one small thing that is often used as the wedge in a process that completely derails a working class or poor person's life.

My local DSA chapter, to give another example, canvassed local restaurants and got a pledge from them to maintain the local minimum wage. What had happened was that our county had passed a minimum wage increase. We're a blue county in a reddish state, so naturally the state legislature decided to poke us in the eye by passing a law that said local minimum wage increases were illegal. So the local DSA canvassed all our restaurants and got EVERY SINGLE ONE to pledge to keep paying at the previously-higher minimum wage.

I realize these don't look like politics to you, because you've confused buying things and cheering for a team with politics, but this is what politics are and should be. There are many other examples, too; local city council and state governor candidates are being vetted by DSA chapters, and good ones are getting bodies to canvas and phonebank and organize for them.

These are real things the organization is doing, and they are how power is built; y'know, like the centrists always say, "If you want a say in politics, start local". Well, we are, and success is following from it.

selec
Sep 6, 2003

JeffersonClay posted:

She said the army should have supported Manning's mental health and transitioning needs, and had she felt supported by the military she might not have leaked poo poo in the first place. Apparently it's transphobic to suggest mental health could have affected a person's decision making.

It is transphobic to attribute a decision to be a whistleblower to being trans, yeah. Paging Dr. Samuel Cartwright to the phrenology ward.

selec
Sep 6, 2003

JeffersonClay posted:

Yes it's extremely phrenology to suggest people in transition who don't receive psychological care and who are shunned by a culture they cannot escape are more likely to suffer from mental illness. What a progressive sentiment.

But what does that have to do with her decision to become a whistleblower?

selec
Sep 6, 2003

JeffersonClay posted:

Only if you assume what she did was a good and noble thing in the first place.

I think we can attribute your opinions on this to the fact that her name will be in history books, and they’re going to print an Excel sheet showing how you saved the company ten cents once on your tombstone, which nobody will ever visit.

selec
Sep 6, 2003

JeffersonClay posted:

It said specifically there's no evidence that being trans led her to leak the documents.


Mental illness doesn't need to explain the entirety of Manning's decision making for it to be important. Like maybe sans major depression Manning just leaks the war crime video and not a bunch of sensitive diplomatic cables.

Maybe sans sociopathic selfishness you’d stop posting.

selec
Sep 6, 2003

Oh Snapple! posted:

Ah, but you see, someone could have been.

Of course the simple solution to this whole thing is that maybe the US just shouldn't have been committing war crimes, providing nothing to leak in the first place.

It's true, if they didn't have anything to hide, then what are they afraid of?

selec
Sep 6, 2003

Koalas March posted:

I think those are good questions but I think we need to start with: "Will we actually see another black president in our lifetimes?" first. Honestly, I'm not sure.

If the process of converting politics into celebrity entertainment continues, absolutely 100% we will. We will see a woman president riding that same trend into office before we see America elect a woman because she's competent and has good policies.

selec
Sep 6, 2003

GreyjoyBastard posted:

glenn greenwald is, in fact, bad because of his reflexive "america is bad, therefore anyone america doesn't like is good" philosophy

I don't think he has that philosophy, but even if he did, it'd be an important counterbalance to Tapper getting a chub talking about Tomahawk missile strikes.

selec
Sep 6, 2003

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/24/us/politics/republicans-democrats-coalition-trump.html

Buy guillotine shares now! The market can only expand!

selec
Sep 6, 2003

the never-ending insistence on blaming voters, the people with the least amount of power in the scenario, rather than the party itself for being poo poo and running lovely candidates used to make me mad, but now just makes me pity them because I realized that they really believe that. And if they believe that, then at least a certain amount of them torment themselves with the co-morbid belief that anything wrong with their lives must be a personal failing, because they fail to realize the institutions and entities with power over them in their own lives.

the inability to understand and analyze power structures must cause a lot of undeserved personal misery for those fart huffers.

selec
Sep 6, 2003

exploded mummy posted:

is there a more serious violation going on than some flyers just under the 100 foot keepout zone

Not how it works. Every violation is serious. You find brown m&ms in the bowl backstage, you flip that whole loving catering table over. You lose your poo poo and make them fear you. A little violation cannot be allowed to slide. Call this election tampering, call the people doing it anti democratic.

selec
Sep 6, 2003

Raskolnikov38 posted:

you do know the brown m&m thing was a quick trick to see if the promoter had actually read the contract to make sure the stage didn't sink into some basketball court's floor again, right

That's exactly what I'm referencing in terms of why small violations of electoral law need to be treated as if they were immense, because even small violations indicate people are not too concerned with the law at all.

selec
Sep 6, 2003

Cerebral Bore posted:

What's with people like you and your seeming inability to accept even the idea of pattern recognition?

Not to mention that the most charitable interpretation we can come up with is Old Howard Dean Just Had Too Much Breakfast And Got Confused.

selec
Sep 6, 2003

skex knows a lot about politics but understands little of the meaning of what they know, and know and understands nothing about power except how to worship it. this is the most charitable take I’ve got on what seems to be a pretty standard centrist dem.

selec
Sep 6, 2003

DaveWoo posted:

... Well, mission accomplished, I guess.

Yeah, he’s ratfucking the person he supposedly endorses by not just doing the work to get his name off the ballot. It would show party unity and loyalty from the wing of the party that always demands those things, and free up the candidate to spend her time using her high profile and charisma to work to get other Dems elected.

selec
Sep 6, 2003

Matt Zerella posted:

I know it's a divisive podcast

Only to people intimately familiar with the interior geography of school lockers.

selec
Sep 6, 2003

VitalSigns posted:

They already do this now, Chuck Schumer has an imaginary swing-voter boomer family that he talks to in his head to understand Real America

It always struck me that people didn’t react to how demented this seems to me. You could talk to actual voters, Chuck. They exist.

The Onion should do a running series where they find every reference he’s made to this family in public, construct their canon, then take it away from him and describe the family’s destruction and abasement, sort of like the Diamond Joe Biden character, but cruel and apocalyptic.

selec fucked around with this message at 14:39 on Jul 24, 2018

selec
Sep 6, 2003

Trabisnikof posted:

Like the Pelosi question was snuck into a Q&A, she was trying to not speak on the subject, but someone forced her to.

Elderly woman held hostage by radical “question bomb” deployed covertly at political Q&A...?

What the poo poo.

selec
Sep 6, 2003

Trabisnikof posted:

Oh come on, I'm just saying that as a political strategy, Pelosi clearly didn't want to have to answer the question, which is what Ytlaya wanted her to do: just stay out of it.

I don’t understand how you don’t see that whether Pelosi wants to answer or not is the least important part of this equation. The fact that they were prescreening the scripted questions and that we can act like there’s any hay to make about going off the script is bad enough.

It highlighted the disconnect between leadership and a not-insignificant (and growing) part of the base, and that Pelosi and Waters are so tone deaf about it speaks to their abilities to adequately represent the base.

selec
Sep 6, 2003

PT6A posted:

To be fair, no one could've predicted painting Trump as the fact of the Republican party would be bad until the actual night of the election. If you're going to criticize Obama, stick to the poo poo he actually did wrong and should've known not to do at the time.

We can fault them for deciding Donald Trump was what to run on, and not actually being able to read the room on what the Sanders protest-campaign-turning-real meant. When you decide to call out Trump as your bete noir over and over, you admit he is your equal; he is the enemy you chose.

selec
Sep 6, 2003

Ellison has flat out denied the video exists, so it seems pretty open-and-shut dependent on it existing and portraying what it is supposed to be.

It’s the devil of identity; Ellison’s as a member of a minority who have had sexual licentiousness and sexual violence painted as part and parcel of their souls, and his ex as a woman, who have been gaslit throughout history about their experiences of domestic and sexual violence, and as a white woman, who sits at the nexus of both of those traditions being weaponized as a means of upholding a violent racial caste system that persists to this day in our country.

I’m amazed that posters here feel they have the moral clarity to have divined what is or isn’t true and what should happen based on what is out there right now. I have no idea what to do with this information besides wait and see.

selec
Sep 6, 2003

steinrokkan posted:

Yeah, based on what I've read there was no evidence of animosity between KE and his GF in their communications at the time the incident was supposed to happen.

I do think that it is important to accept that a persons testimony is evidence, but only one form of it.

It’s also hard to wrestle with because of pattern recognition:

The first pattern we need to recognize is that the vast majority of accusations like these, especially the high profile ones that we attach to the MeToo moment, are long-overdue comeuppance for monsters, men that are unquestionably guilty of some really, really lovely things, and that most people have internalized the accusation as being a reliable guide to a dude being genuinely monstrous or lovely.

The other pattern is that we have seen with many accusations a tendency either from the accused or their defenders (Franken is a great example of this) claiming that this is a purely political method of fatally undermining an important member of the in-group. In reality, we have seen only one example of what I would consider to be a real example of this, taking advantage of the moment to try and shiv a political foe, and it was the attempt to paint Matt Taibbi as a serial rapist, and was carried out ostensibly by other people on the left. That it was rebutted so thoroughly didn’t mean it didn’t probably hurt his career. But it does exemplify the worst accusation the right (and to a much lesser degree the left) makes about these kinds of accusations, that they are purely political hack jobs. The fact that the only example that genuinely validated that claim was carried out on a leftist by people only to their right by a matter of slight degree is wholly lost in the dialogue, such as any exists.

All this is to say I don’t think it’s reasonable to stake out a presumption of anything right now.

selec
Sep 6, 2003

Condiv posted:

whoa this is definitely a trustworthy source sneakster :bravo:

edit: btw that comma was in the newsletter. maybe these idiots should learn their language before they advocate for making it the official language of the US

They really bury the lede that the woman writing this account eventually had a restraining order taken out against her by Ellison. So by her own admission, some of the facts of this whole thing did appear before a judge, but didn't really turn out the way you'd think it would given the allegations being made. The way she just presents it as something that just happened out of thin air, rather than discussing whatever evidence was submitted for the order is pretty hinky too, but I'm still waiting and seeing.

selec
Sep 6, 2003

Oh Snapple! posted:

Why would you push for Garland at this point. He was a lovely compromise pick that everyone acknowledged as such.

I don't think we can be so certain Garland wasn't what the party hacks actually wanted.

Every single time the folks running the democratic party want something different than the base (ie, M4A) they say they can't have it because they need to compromise. We need to start admitting they just don't like the policies; if they did, they'd fight for them.

M4A isn't something the big Dem donors want, and Garland is probably the judge they do. If anything, he's a compromise in that he's the leftmost nominee those donors and the consulting class can tolerate.

selec
Sep 6, 2003

Lightning Knight posted:

This would’ve actually been funny and worthwhile which is of course why they didn’t loving think of it.

Because they're used to taking tests and proving they're good enough for managers. The idea that this is a loving knife fight and you need to put your boot on the other guy's neck and then find any heavy object you can to load into your pack while you keep pressing harder and harder on that neck is lost on them.

They do not have the instincts in them to fight someone like Trump. Just don't have what it takes.

selec
Sep 6, 2003

Tatsuta Age posted:

Is this forum really so fucjed up that we've circled all the way around to "actually, Trump is right about e Warren" or am I missing something here

Which seems more likely to you

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selec
Sep 6, 2003


These loving nerds suck up reporting budgets that would otherwise go to actual news. What a loving scam.

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