The democrats are still a waste

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > The democrats are still a waste

Bernie _______ This poll is closed.
would've won!	87	34.52%
has won!	45	17.86%
will win!	56	22.22%
is winning!	64	25.40%
Total:	124 votes

[Edit Poll (moderators only)]

Mr Hootington: Jul 24, 2008; I'M HAVING A HOOT EATING CORNETTE THE LONG WAY

Darth Windu posted:

Also a pony would help

No it wouldn't.

https://twitter.com/TedNesi/status/909587542391042049

# ? Sep 18, 2017 17:09

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# ? May 3, 2024 01:02

NewForumSoftware: Oct 8, 2016; by Lowtax

tentative8e8op posted:

In broad terms I would say positions of the Democratic party include: fighting for civil rights(minority, LGBT, disability and women's rights),

Log cabin republicans

quote:

universal healthcare

lol no threy don't,

quote:

criminal justice reform,

lol no they dont

quote:

expanded social programs,

grand bargain

quote:

protecting voting rights,

gerrymander just as bad as the gop

quote:

higher minimum wages,

lol

quote:

higher taxes on the wealthy

lmao

quote:

and closure of tax loopholes,

oh my god stop

quote:

stricter environmental regulations and renewable energy

like obama, noted supporter of offshore drilling

quote:

, industrial regulations,

like what?

quote:

affordable housing,

now you're just getting silly

quote:

affordable secondary education

lol

quote:

, being pro-immigration,

lol they want to build the wall

quote:

and pretty much anything you'd describe as having a working federal government at all.

actually its only war and ensuring the donors are kept happy

# ? Sep 18, 2017 17:11

steinrokkan: Apr 2, 2011; Soiled Meat

tentative8e8op posted:

The Democratic party's policies, to me, appear to align pretty much with what most people in this thread value. You should definitely take posters calling Democrats totally incompetent, dishonest, ineffective, evil, unfixable, worse than Trump, etc with a grain of salt. This thread has a weird problem of being an internet echochamber of sincere socialists who don't feel the party is being proactively left enough, anti-establishment Democrats in all but name, Trumpists who are here just to attack Democrats and Hillary Clinton, and people who wander in.

I think Democrats seem to simply be the "not Trump" party because Republicans are a death cult trying to destroy our government. Many commentators don't seem to consider fighting to keep or expand values many take for granted as an important position to take in itself.

In broad terms I would say positions of the Democratic party include: fighting for civil rights(minority, LGBT, disability and women's rights), universal healthcare, criminal justice reform, expanded social programs, protecting voting rights, higher minimum wages, higher taxes on the wealthy and closure of tax loopholes, stricter environmental regulations and renewable energy, industrial regulations, affordable housing, affordable secondary education, being pro-immigration, and pretty much anything you'd describe as having a working federal government at all.

In practice these are things where any given Democrat has a 50/50 chance of landing on the right side of the issue even before they get to the brass tacks (and surrender to corporate lobbyists).

# ? Sep 18, 2017 17:12

Mister Facetious: Apr 21, 2007; I think I died and woke up in L.A.,
I don't know how I wound up in this place...

tentative8e8op posted:

Here's a link to the Democratic party platform if you'd like to read their official positions. Not every member holds the same values, many disagree on the best way to reach their goals, and some small few are corrupt, but all-in-all the Democratic Party is good.

Friendly reminder that without Bernie's primary campaign, their platform wouldn't have the concessions to people that aren't meritocratic white collar professionals that it does:

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-democrats-platform-bernie-sanders-20160710-snap-story.html

https://www.vox.com/2016/7/1/12083494/bernie-sanders-democratic-party-concessions

# ? Sep 18, 2017 17:12

NewForumSoftware: Oct 8, 2016; by Lowtax

Friendly reminder that both the Democrats and Republicans campaign on social issues (note: neither party actually gives two shits about social issues) but both adhere to an identical economic agenda and have little interest in doing more than ensuring the donors are kept happy and that the megacorporations can continue their international exploitation of foreign countries

They are the same and the leadership (Obama, Pelosi, Clinton, Reid, etc) have all confirmed this

PS stop voting for politicians who want to bomb brown children even if they have a D next to their name

# ? Sep 18, 2017 17:14

NewForumSoftware: Oct 8, 2016; by Lowtax

Hillary and Trump are effectively ideologically identical as the bubble created by the company they keep prevents them from having any understanding about what life is like for people with a net worth less than seven digits. Trump and Hillary's presidency would have been indistinguishable from each other if not for the screeching of liberal media outlets pushing stories pretending Donald Trump is going to create muslim internment camps funded by Putin.

# ? Sep 18, 2017 17:18

Mister Facetious: Apr 21, 2007; I think I died and woke up in L.A.,
I don't know how I wound up in this place...

NewForumSoftware posted:

PS stop voting for politicians who want to bomb brown children even if they have a D next to their name

Amen.

# ? Sep 18, 2017 17:21

Nocturtle: Mar 17, 2007

Hillary's Presidency would have been significantly different from Trump's, there was at least some chance of her getting impeached. Otherwise it's a testament to Trump's ineptitude that he's been sidelined by the House and Senate leadership to the extent that it's what Hillary's perpetual lame duck Presidency would have looked like.

# ? Sep 18, 2017 17:42

Bel Shazar: Sep 14, 2012

tentative8e8op posted:

The Democratic party's policies, to me, appear to align pretty much with what most people in this thread value. You should definitely take posters calling Democrats totally incompetent, dishonest, ineffective, evil, unfixable, worse than Trump, etc with a grain of salt. This thread has a weird problem of being an internet echochamber of sincere socialists who don't feel the party is being proactively left enough, anti-establishment Democrats in all but name, Trumpists who are here just to attack Democrats and Hillary Clinton, and people who wander in.

I think Democrats seem to simply be the "not Trump" party because Republicans are a death cult trying to destroy our government. Many commentators don't seem to consider fighting to keep or expand values many take for granted as an important position to take in itself.

In broad terms I would say positions of the Democratic party include: fighting for civil rights(minority, LGBT, disability and women's rights), universal healthcare, criminal justice reform, expanded social programs, protecting voting rights, higher minimum wages, higher taxes on the wealthy and closure of tax loopholes, stricter environmental regulations and renewable energy, industrial regulations, affordable housing, affordable secondary education, being pro-immigration, and pretty much anything you'd describe as having a working federal government at all.

Here's a link to the Democratic party platform if you'd like to read their official positions. Not every member holds the same values, many disagree on the best way to reach their goals, and some small few are corrupt, but all-in-all the Democratic Party is good.

You've pretty well described Democratic voters, but the Democratic party leaders tend to be the "hold your nose and vote for the lesser of two evils" types because most voters wait until the general election to vote. Thus we get 80's style republicans instead of party leaders representing a truly progressive party.

# ? Sep 18, 2017 18:03

Unbelievably Fat Man: Jun 1, 2000; Innocent people. I could never hurt innocent people.

tentative8e8op posted:

The Democratic party's policies, to me, appear to align pretty much with what most people in this thread value. You should definitely take posters calling Democrats totally incompetent, dishonest, ineffective, evil, unfixable, worse than Trump, etc with a grain of salt. This thread has a weird problem of being an internet echochamber of sincere socialists who don't feel the party is being proactively left enough, anti-establishment Democrats in all but name, Trumpists who are here just to attack Democrats and Hillary Clinton, and people who wander in.

I think Democrats seem to simply be the "not Trump" party because Republicans are a death cult trying to destroy our government. Many commentators don't seem to consider fighting to keep or expand values many take for granted as an important position to take in itself.

In broad terms I would say positions of the Democratic party include: fighting for civil rights(minority, LGBT, disability and women's rights), universal healthcare, criminal justice reform, expanded social programs, protecting voting rights, higher minimum wages, higher taxes on the wealthy and closure of tax loopholes, stricter environmental regulations and renewable energy, industrial regulations, affordable housing, affordable secondary education, being pro-immigration, and pretty much anything you'd describe as having a working federal government at all.

Here's a link to the Democratic party platform if you'd like to read their official positions. Not every member holds the same values, many disagree on the best way to reach their goals, and some small few are corrupt, but all-in-all the Democratic Party is good.

The most important function we can perform in electoral politics is to hold the Democrats feet to the fire. To burn and scald and scorch them.

They might say a lot of center-left things and play themselves off as the party of sanity but we can reasonably surmise their true alliegences from the period from 2009 to 2010. I'm not saying they (mostly) want to actively gently caress the poor to death with knives. They live in a bubble of rich and upper middle class fart huffers and truly believe in their middle of the road centrist technocratic policies. They have no idea how I live and cannot comprehend the bullshit and misery they have caused me and other working class people.

Remember that the Democrats in Congress haven't done a lot legislatively even when they were in power. The left wins we've seen have mostly come through the courts.

They are the only game in town right now. They are less insane and less evil than the Republicans. I can even stomach voting for Democrats sometimes. That doesn't mean there's no room for improvement.

# ? Sep 18, 2017 18:14

yronic heroism: Oct 31, 2008

Condiv posted:

they don't actually work towards social reform though. they'll claim credit when the work's been done for them (see: gay marriage), but they will only give lip service to social reform during an election and then forget about it entirely afterwards

Tell it to the states that legalized gay marriage through their elected Democratic legislatures.

# ? Sep 18, 2017 18:23

thechosenone: Mar 21, 2009

Yeah, there is a lot I would very much like to see change with the observed behavior of democratic party. Whoever brought up the court assisted Advent of gay marriage made a good point (I would quote them if my phone would let me), but even then the increase in support of gay marriage by the public still played a factor. While it would be nice to have everything that helped someone help everyone at once right now and directly, at least gay marriage isn't as easy to use as a wedge issue by the parties anymore, allowing us to find the next thing we can knock down on the way.

# ? Sep 18, 2017 18:25

thechosenone: Mar 21, 2009

yronic heroism posted:

Tell it to the states that legalized gay marriage through their elected Democratic legislatures.

This is also a part of what convinced the courts as well. It also normalizes lgbt folks in the public, and makes it easier to make further inroads on that front, along with what got done in the main push. This helps lgbt people, and not only lets them focus on more general economic issues, and also weakens the ability of political groups from using this as a wedge issue against groups that might otherwise be able to work together.

# ? Sep 18, 2017 18:32

gohmak: Feb 12, 2004; cookies need love

Junior G-man posted:

Even though I like to think I follow US politics quite closely from over here in the EU, I literally haven't the faintest idea what policies the Democrats currently stand for or what their big idea is, especially since the election. They seem to be "not Trump", which I suppose is a decent reason, but what is it they're actually pitching now?

All I ever read are stories about how "not Trump" they are.

We Americans don�t know either

# ? Sep 18, 2017 18:36

RedSpider: May 12, 2017

NewForumSoftware posted:

Friendly reminder that both the Democrats and Republicans campaign on social issues (note: neither party actually gives two shits about social issues) but both adhere to an identical economic agenda and have little interest in doing more than ensuring the donors are kept happy and that the megacorporations can continue their international exploitation of foreign countries

I think a great indicator of what the 2020 Dem candidate economic agenda will be is if Silicon Valley publicly supports him/her.

For idiots ITT who don't know what that means, Silicon Valley is arguably the strongest proponent of labor-destroying technocrat neoliberalism AKA Republicans with Rainbow Flags.

# ? Sep 18, 2017 18:39

Junior G-man: Sep 15, 2004; Wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma

Rappaport posted:

BOOK RECOMMENDATION

Everyone who thinks the Dems are a waste should read Listen, Liberal by Thomas Frank, it pretty much nails the reasons behind the behaviour of all the centrists who haunted the previous thread. And why the Dems are a loving waste.

I did like his talk:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPYlE72OzZA

# ? Sep 18, 2017 18:50

Javes: May 6, 2012; ASK ME ABOUT APPEARING OFFLINE SO I DON'T HAVE TO TELL FRIENDS THEY'RE NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR MY VIDEO GAME TEAM.

Mr Hootington posted:

How to pay for it, what about the insurance industry jobs, it is impractical, it is very hard to do right now or ever.

gently caress I started listening to it and the :smuggo:

'you mean implementing PRACTICAL policy is hard? Who knew?' :smuggo:

made me recoil.

# ? Sep 18, 2017 19:10

VideoGameVet: May 14, 2005; It is by caffeine alone I set my bike in motion. It is by the juice of Java that pedaling acquires speed, the teeth acquire stains, stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my bike in motion.

Good read:

https://thenib.com/can-the-democrats-imagine-a-better-future

VideoGameVet fucked around with this message at 19:21 on Sep 18, 2017

# ? Sep 18, 2017 19:19

The Kingfish: Oct 21, 2015

Junior G-man posted:

I did like his talk:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPYlE72OzZA

This is very good.

# ? Sep 18, 2017 19:33

mila kunis: Jun 10, 2011

tentative8e8op posted:

The Democratic party's policies, to me, appear to align pretty much with what most people in this thread value. You should definitely take posters calling Democrats totally incompetent, dishonest, ineffective, evil, unfixable, worse than Trump, etc with a grain of salt. This thread has a weird problem of being an internet echochamber of sincere socialists who don't feel the party is being proactively left enough, anti-establishment Democrats in all but name, Trumpists who are here just to attack Democrats and Hillary Clinton, and people who wander in.

I think Democrats seem to simply be the "not Trump" party because Republicans are a death cult trying to destroy our government. Many commentators don't seem to consider fighting to keep or expand values many take for granted as an important position to take in itself.

In broad terms I would say positions of the Democratic party include: fighting for civil rights(minority, LGBT, disability and women's rights), universal healthcare, criminal justice reform, expanded social programs, protecting voting rights, higher minimum wages, higher taxes on the wealthy and closure of tax loopholes, stricter environmental regulations and renewable energy, industrial regulations, affordable housing, affordable secondary education, being pro-immigration, and pretty much anything you'd describe as having a working federal government at all.

Here's a link to the Democratic party platform if you'd like to read their official positions. Not every member holds the same values, many disagree on the best way to reach their goals, and some small few are corrupt, but all-in-all the Democratic Party is good.

How can anyone still believe this garbage in 2017

# ? Sep 18, 2017 19:41

Condiv: May 7, 2008; Sorry to undo the effort of paying a domestic abuser $10 to own this poster, but I am going to lose my dang mind if I keep seeing multiple posters who appear to be Baloogan.

With love,
a mod

VideoGameVet posted:

Good read:

https://thenib.com/can-the-democrats-imagine-a-better-future

this was a good read

# ? Sep 18, 2017 19:52

Mr Hootington: Jul 24, 2008; I'M HAVING A HOOT EATING CORNETTE THE LONG WAY

Javes posted:

gently caress I started listening to it and the 'you mean implementing PRACTICAL policy is hard? Who knew?' made me recoil.

After that listen to the September 14th Pod Save America. It is even better.

# ? Sep 18, 2017 19:54

Mr Hootington: Jul 24, 2008; I'M HAVING A HOOT EATING CORNETTE THE LONG WAY

https://twitter.com/ryanlcooper/status/909782081206722561

:thunk:

# ? Sep 18, 2017 20:15

Rugoberta Munchu: Jun 5, 2003; Do you want a hupyrolysege slcorpselong?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDfhFfKSohc

# ? Sep 18, 2017 21:12

Falstaff: Apr 27, 2008; I have a kind of alacrity in sinking.

Rugoberta Munchu posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDfhFfKSohc

# ? Sep 18, 2017 21:17

Harold Fjord: Jan 3, 2004

Mr Hootington posted:

https://twitter.com/ryanlcooper/status/909782081206722561

I wonder why someone not running for a position might not have to worry about things someone running for a position should have worried about.

:thunk:

# ? Sep 18, 2017 21:19

Nocturtle: Mar 17, 2007

I have a pet theory that Obama's disillusioned after 6 years as an ineffective lame duck capped off by Trump elected as his replacement. Trump! He's also smart enough to know about the upcoming catastrophe that is climate change in addition to whatever military briefings he received on this issue. If I were given the opportunity to join the permanent capital class and ensure my kids don't end up in the meat-grinder I'd probably take it too.

# ? Sep 18, 2017 21:27

Mr Hootington: Jul 24, 2008; I'M HAVING A HOOT EATING CORNETTE THE LONG WAY

Nevvy Z posted:

I wonder why someone not running for a position might not have to worry about things someone running for a position should have worried about.

His golden parachute for helping wall street with their financial and legal problems is well earned.

# ? Sep 18, 2017 21:28

Mister Facetious: Apr 21, 2007; I think I died and woke up in L.A.,
I don't know how I wound up in this place...

Darth Windu posted:

Also a pony would help

Didn't help Romney. :rimshot:

# ? Sep 18, 2017 21:32

Majorian: Jul 1, 2009; Inverted Offensive Battle: Acupuncture Attacks Convert To 3D Penetration Tactics Taking Advantage of Deep Battle Opportunities

Nevvy Z posted:

I wonder why someone not running for a position might not have to worry about things someone running for a position should have worried about.

Do you see why this a bad trend, though?

# ? Sep 18, 2017 21:35

steinrokkan: Apr 2, 2011; Soiled Meat

Remember kids, bribery is fine as long as you receive the payment after the fact!

# ? Sep 18, 2017 21:35

NewForumSoftware: Oct 8, 2016; by Lowtax

Nevvy Z posted:

I wonder why someone not running for a position might not have to worry about things someone running for a position should have worried about.

Maybe it's less about the election and more about what's right and wrong hth

# ? Sep 18, 2017 21:45

Mr Hootington: Jul 24, 2008; I'M HAVING A HOOT EATING CORNETTE THE LONG WAY

https://twitter.com/daveweigel/status/909754657429434373

# ? Sep 18, 2017 21:47

Mister Fister: May 17, 2008; D&D: HASBARA SQUAD
KILL-GORE

I love the smell of dead Palestinians in the morning.
You know, one time we had Gaza bombed for 26 days
(and counting!)

steinrokkan posted:

Remember kids, bribery is fine as long as you receive the payment after the fact!

Say what you want about Obama, but he's infinitely smarter than Hillary. Which really says a lot about how greedy the Clintons are that they couldn't wait to cash in.

# ? Sep 18, 2017 21:51

theCalamity: Oct 23, 2010; Cry Havoc and let slip the Hogs of War

https://twitter.com/evansernoffsky/status/909864618125754368

# ? Sep 18, 2017 21:53

C. Everett Koop: Aug 18, 2008

Nocturtle posted:

I have a pet theory that Obama's disillusioned after 6 years as an ineffective lame duck capped off by Trump elected as his replacement. Trump! He's also smart enough to know about the upcoming catastrophe that is climate change in addition to whatever military briefings he received on this issue. If I were given the opportunity to join the permanent capital class and ensure my kids don't end up in the meat-grinder I'd probably take it too.

Considering he should be spending the rest of his miserable existence in a deep, dark hole for crimes against humanity here and abroad, giving him money for his stupid opinions seems unnecessary at best and treasonous at worst.

# ? Sep 18, 2017 21:55

THS: Sep 15, 2017

The Democratic platform is progressive and they also do absolutely nothing to implement it when they're in power.

# ? Sep 18, 2017 22:10

call to action: Jun 10, 2016; by FactsAreUseless

Nocturtle posted:

Hillary's Presidency would have been significantly different from Trump's, there was at least some chance of her getting impeached. Otherwise it's a testament to Trump's ineptitude that he's been sidelined by the House and Senate leadership to the extent that it's what Hillary's perpetual lame duck Presidency would have looked like.

Hmm, now how exactly does this gel with the general D&D consensus that Trump has beat Jackson, Kennedy, LBJ, Nixon, etc. for worst president ever.

# ? Sep 18, 2017 22:26

Condiv: May 7, 2008; Sorry to undo the effort of paying a domestic abuser $10 to own this poster, but I am going to lose my dang mind if I keep seeing multiple posters who appear to be Baloogan.

With love,
a mod

Nevvy Z posted:

I wonder why someone not running for a position might not have to worry about things someone running for a position should have worried about.

loving

you're the worst

# ? Sep 18, 2017 22:30

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# ? May 3, 2024 01:02

Main Paineframe: Oct 27, 2010

Junior G-man posted:

Even though I like to think I follow US politics quite closely from over here in the EU, I literally haven't the faintest idea what policies the Democrats currently stand for or what their big idea is, especially since the election. They seem to be "not Trump", which I suppose is a decent reason, but what is it they're actually pitching now?

All I ever read are stories about how "not Trump" they are.

They stand for taking power and filling the government with career Dem cronies and operatives instead of career GOP cronies and operatives. To that end, they've spent the last couple decades busily discarding any message or policy they ever had, in hopes of building a "big tent" that doesn't turn off any group and therefore could theoretically put Dem administrators and grifters into seats all over the country.

Seriously, if you've never met a Dem campaign operative and talked to them about their lives, it's really educational. To a lot of them, their political work is their career - and, like most people, that means priority #1 is getting paid, priority #2 is career advancement, and actual policies are somewhere further down the list.

# ? Sep 18, 2017 22:31

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