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wheres the rats
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Sep 28, 2017 06:55
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Just had a pretty typical rat and elf battle. I was outnumbered, facing a veritable swarm of enemies. Thankfully the superior quality of my troops won me the day; that and my ranged option scored hundreds of kills as they blobbed up against my battle line. It was my first heroic victory, tho, so I guess that counts for something. Also, diary, I may be playing skaven wrong. For real, I'm apparently breaking a lot of rules. I maintain battle lines, generally outkill my enemy, have a food surplus after taking the south half of the southlands. I rely on numbers a bit less than I rely on the obscenity that is plaguepaw catapults. That, and just the spell plague, in general. Had one battle against the undead where I tried to blitz an assassin against their vampire lord but the AI responded by wrapping him in around half the enemy army, so I just dumped overcharged plagues on him. Got 300 kills on the first cast. Won that battle with something like 34 "real" deaths. Queek's army is more elite than the rest of my forces, tho, due to the upkeep thing, and tbh, I think people underestimate what AP + having actual armor brings to the table compared to clanrats. Clanrats do alright in the "just hold the loving line" department, though, which is really all you need infantry to do when you have those goddamn catapults backing them up, tho. Only act of rat blasphamy I've completely failed at is making friends with something other than other rats and dark elves. I guess I made friends with some orcs due to shared hatred of lizards? Its kind of funny that when you play a bad guy race in warhammer that isn't just a horde, you end up feeling less like a dreaded overlord and more like a persecuted sad gently caress who just wants someone to buy his loving trade goods. Rats just wanna live in peace snorting some stones but instead are eternally pulled to war by a barrage of rear end in a top hat islander elves and their fat frog friends. Tiler Kiwi fucked around with this message at 05:57 on Oct 5, 2017 |
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Oct 5, 2017 05:37
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Fat Samurai posted:Planning to start a Skaven playthrough this weekend. Is the optimal way to play having support armies full of slaves or is Menace from Below enough to give that Skaven Horde feeling? Skaven corruption gives you like, 2 unrest. Its not that big a deal. I haven't had much issues with that. Although skavenslave upkeep is super cheap and they can hold a line fairly well considering, you still have the whole upkeep % increase for each stack you've got, and they're pretty drat useless on their own. I throw them in front of my main line, still in range of the general, so they can serve as padding while you nuke them and their foes with nasty spells and a bunch of weaponry. You'll probably want those weapons protected by actual clanrats since they at least take a bit longer to die. Support armies full of slaves is... not good?, because sometimes your reinforcements show up on their lonesome and slaves and even clanrats on their own are incapable of doing much except dying in large quantities, even if you encircle enemies. And your "good" stuff is better if they've got something else to eat poo poo in lieu of them. I prefer to have each army run a fair amount of slave chaff than to have exclusively chaff armies running about. Tiler Kiwi fucked around with this message at 10:33 on Oct 5, 2017 |
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Oct 5, 2017 10:27
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Third World Reggin posted:I am kinda excited to see what radious will do since a lot of the things he added to the campaign are in there already except for the units. skaven armored horse archers (blessed by the lady)
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Oct 5, 2017 12:32
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that plus the suicide rat bomb thing you get in provinces with defenses is insane, by the way blew up an entire unit of phoenix guard for basically free (one mb, one bomb)
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Oct 6, 2017 05:42
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age of sigmar is NOT MY LORE
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Oct 6, 2017 06:08
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also sometimes when you order around rats they say something like "rakity ruk" or something every time i hear it it reminds me of this dumb loving singing
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Oct 6, 2017 07:18
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One thing to know, also, is that while the magic forest is "uninhabitable", it also gives 3 food when fully upgraded. And since its a province with only one settlement, the edict is a net +1 as well.
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Oct 6, 2017 08:15
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They could have made it an auto-lose if the AI completed the vortex before you. Maybe they should have, since people don't seem to get that the current set up is essentially a mercy out.Ra Ra Rasputin posted:Although to allow you to do so you'd probably need to afford more units which is hard to do with the upkeep penalties without cheesing stacking bonuses on high income territories. its very doable. i also smashed the nice elves ritual up as well in the same time frame. Tiler Kiwi fucked around with this message at 06:12 on Oct 7, 2017 |
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Oct 7, 2017 06:08
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boho posted:What are the poison mechanics? Does the entire unit get the penalty if one guy gets hit, or does just that one guy get the penalty? whole unit.
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Oct 7, 2017 06:42
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On my end, I fell behind on the ritual a fuckton, due to picking a fight with basically the entire southlands, and wasting a lot of time smacking around the two undead factions. The two elf factions both were only a little nudge away from starting the final rituals, and tho I could have just turtled and won the final battle poo poo, that would also be stupidly shameful and dumb and essentially have been a loss if it wasn't for the pity out. I begun to set off at only a little bit before the last minute, which meant that as my invasion was only setting off from Khemri when the dark elves begun their last ritual. I wanted to get to Naggarond via the High Elf territories, and Queek arrived first. He got two buffs on the way there, which made his stormvermin were more hardcore than white lions., which meant that he pretty effortlessly obliterated two elf stacks and smashed three cities. The elves, maybe out of desperation, maybe out of elven arrogance, but also maybe because AI dumb, begun their ritual anyways, which meant my good armies got sort of roped into dealing with that, so my Naggarond expedition was instead headed by two level eight lords, with armies of clanrats and skavenslaves, with around four good units each. They ended up having to fight Alastar and a stack of elite assholes, which hurt, and burned down a high elf city on the way there. The high elves military was beaten up badly enough, that the chaos armies and intervention forces went through a tear, burning down all their ritual cities and their capital. I'd planned ahead a bit, and saw that I was on good terms enough with some dark elves south of Malekith that I could get military access and an alliance, which allowed those two rat forces a place to land safely and get some replenishment on their way to battle. The bad news was, that these two chump stacks could only reach Naggarond, rather than a perhaps more vulnerable city. Fortunately, the area wasn't that intensely defended since intervention forces had peeled away the bigger armies, and ol' Darth Burnie was heading to Ulthuan. The army garrisoned there, which was about 2/3 a stack of black guards, darkshards, and dragons, ran out to fight my armies, which I had rushed up in march stance, so that wound up being a bit of a messy fight. The garrison at Naggarond sallied out as well, which was another messy fight where my reinforcements wound up coming in the wrong side of the map, and the AI decided to split its forces, and I decided to try to see how awful not pausing or using slowmo would be. I wound up being saved due to the various magic reserve buffs I'd accumulated (two knowledgeable characters, and the black pyramid) to spam enough plague and vermintide spells to endure that mess. Now, I've taken Naggarond, preventing the ritual with three turns left. A dark elf army marched up the next turn, so I've now got to fight that. And next I've got to probably take a stab at the lizards, while also ensuring neither elves can restart their rituals for the long rear end time its going to take me to prepare for mine. I've been accumulating as much wealth as possible to that ends; I plan to raise some extra forces to defend my lands during the ritual proceedings, and/or just let the rest of my rat realm burn to poo poo while I ensure the important sites are protected. so, yeah, in my own experience, the vortex campaign mechanics have resulted in me having to move outside my comfort zone, fight difficult battles, juggle multiple problems, and have fun doing it. So I've actually enjoyed the vortex campaign and its mechanics quite a lot. I do really think they should have just kicked people in the face if they played on anything higher than normal and done a "no you just fuckin lost" thing if they failed to stop the opposing rituals, since that added pressure adds a lot to the whole experience. People would have, of course, complained a lot, and modded it out, because players are baby scum. The complaints about the other Good But Hated TW Mechanic, Realm Divide, at least had some substance due to several parts of it completely blindsiding the player, but the ritual stuff is telegraphed in an inordinately incessant manner, so the easy out ends up being a disservice. Even the most complained about thing, the spawning armies during your own ritual, is something that is only triggered by you, is telegraphed far in advance, and is something that is entirely within your power to prepare for. You can lose settlements despite preparation, but that just means you need to plan for that, as well. Losing is fun, and memorable.
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Oct 7, 2017 08:31
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Thats probably more fair than my idea, of having the game signing into your social media and broadcasting your failure to the world.
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Oct 7, 2017 09:25
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Wafflecopper posted:I'd be on board with ditching the last chance battle, except for one thing: after the final Skaven ritual failed in my game, they got to try again. Fair enough, except the ritual only had one city listed, and it was already a ruin. It stayed ruined for the entire 20 turns and the ritual completed successfully. In that case I was fine with having a last chance battle, because that would have been a bullshit way to lose. I'm assuming it was a bug, but still. sort of an obvious question but... are you sure it was a ruin? if so, yeah, dumb bug i guess
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Oct 7, 2017 10:18
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God drat this game has a lot of siege defenses compared to WH1. Also, turns out that plague ritual dude doesn't do poo poo to enemy garrisons. But if you defeat the garrison when they sally out at you, it gives you the plague anyways. 
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Oct 8, 2017 07:04
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okay i finished the skaven campaign. spoilery impressions man, the fuckin diplomacy malus stuff is cruel, and now it applies to every faction. it actually kind of gets in the way of post-game map painting, since now my trade income is going to go to total poo poo and all that scribe rat is a pure and beautiful soul and i will ruthlessly diss and admonish any naysayers
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Oct 8, 2017 16:44
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All skaven infantry that isn't skavenslave stuff is overpriced. Part of the incentive to take skavenslaves is to offset that problem. Stormvermin are pretty decent, imo. Saying halberds "only get x more weapon damage" is very misleading, since the 2/3 of their damage ends up AP damage. They can punch out Chaos Warriors in a 1v1, can swarm and take down monstrous infantry/monsters, and still end up with large unit sizes compared to other "elite" skaven infantry. The sword and board variant is capable of destroying enemy mid-tier stuff on their own with no issues, which means you can focus your nasty killy spells and arty pieces on the enemy elites instead. Their high melee defense / armor is pretty rad against lizardmen, who generally have low attack/high damage, which results in clanrats trying to fulfill that same role just get eviscerated in too short a time to be useful. They're still too pricey to be your army's backbone: that's still the job of skavenslaves and clanrats. But as a supplemental force, of around 4-6 guys, they serve an unorthodox but sometimes very vital role of "armored infantry capable of killing other infantry and monsters".
Tiler Kiwi fucked around with this message at 05:43 on Oct 9, 2017 |
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Oct 9, 2017 05:39
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Eshin units are funny when fighting against the elf gates. Stick them all to one side, the AI won't put any defenders there if there's nothing obviously visible. You can have them all scale the walls and take the gates and hold them while your main force comes around for an easy stroll through the enemy defenses.
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Oct 9, 2017 05:58
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Meanwhile, two very rude things I did during my campaign. 
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Oct 9, 2017 07:10
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so if skaven capture a elf gate, they get a garrison full of fun things. two catapults, four death globes, bunch of slingers, two ogres. bit light on infantry, and missing a caster. also missing is the FUCKIN GATE.
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Oct 12, 2017 22:25
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Screenshots        
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Oct 14, 2017 06:16
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skaven are the actual good guys
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Oct 15, 2017 19:37
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I didn't really have too many food problems in my Queek campaign. And I didn't do too much raiding, either. There was only really one point there was sort of an issue, and even then, I had several provinces that I wasn't using the food policy on. I don't know how people get themselves into the situation where they feel like they have no option other than starvation. You do have a rougher start in the Mors campaign due to your best source of early food being located past Kroq Gar's poo poo land (the advice to recruit some plague Grey Seers is a very, very good one, since both Wither and Plague do a serious number on them), but after that, you're pretty free to be a bit more lackadaisical about expansion. Some pointers, tho. Constant sources of food are: 5 for Pestilens/Mors HQ 4/5/6 for pastures 1/1/2/2/3 for Athel Loren settlements Less constant sources of food: 2 for province commandment 3 for raiding - If you go wide, you're going to be using that commandment for most of your provinces. And that means you will need to take the full provinces. With that in mind, you can think of 2 settlement provinces as freebies, 3 as costing one food, 4 as costing two, etc. The size four provinces are the ones that give you a raw deal, so you probably just want to take the province capital and sack/raze the rest, unless the settlements have got something nice (Khemri being a big standout in the Southlands). By using the commandment and being a tad selective about when to take over provinces, you can stretch those constant sources a lot further than you otherwise would. - Once your net food profit falls to around +2/+3, its time to look for pastures to take. Raiding and enslavement can stretch that, but its better to avoid that issue. - Single settlement provinces are a +1 to your food, so look out for them. The Wood Elf city in the southlands is one, which is just a bonus on top of its ability to give you +3 food when fully upgraded. Sartosa is another such place. The final, and maybe most interesting source is the high elf gates, which have the bonus of giving you piss income anyways and having a permanent zero PO, so using the commandment is a no brainier for them. - Those gates are also, happily, in the same area as two of the three pastures in Ulthuan. And they are also next to the only not-island territories in elfland, which is a 3 size wasteland province which skaven can happily live in. All in all, taking over the wastelands, the two pastures, and the four gates will earn you a profit of 13 food. - Confederating the other major skaven clan is going to be probably worth it just for the 5 food from their HQ. Skrolk starts pretty close to two pastures, as well. - Raiding can be useful to fuel your food economy, but if you're raiding just to keep a balance, its time to find new pastures. You're spending a lot of cash for a net gain of 2 food, which probably is not worth it. On using food - Your maximum food stockpile size grows as you expand, but the cost to your food related actions remains flat. This means you can be a lot more profligate about your food usage. - The leadership bonus for max food is a nice flat 10, and applies only in your territory. This means your home territory garrisons can have a larger bulk of slaves since they'll have a bit more of a spine to better tarpit, reducing cost. - On the flip side, the growth bonus for having full larders means you don't need to use it for settlement expansion as much. Even in an uninhabitable place, you can probably just fully upgrade one place and the growth bonus from the settlement and the food will result in you just being able to repeatedly upgrade your settlements. That takes time and costs money, but ehhhh. - You really only need to stay around a neutral balance. Battles are the fastest way to fill your stores. This also makes distant colonial adventures to control pastures more profitable than they first appear: Have your colonial army built around ambushing whatever dork the AI sends in march stance into your territory, and you'll get more food than just having an army sitting in some podunk province raiding would get you. Other Mors stuff - After killing Kroq, its seriously worth it to destroy the island elves to the southwest. And despite the islands being uninhabitable, its actually probably worth taking them over, and using some food stockpiles to get the capital to at least level 3. Even with the Uninhabitable malus, those elven colonies pull in a respectable income. - Get some hero to sail to Dark Elf land to get some goddamn trading partners. - The initial malus to grey seer loyalty is fairly inconsequential. Even early on when you can't just buy early loyalty with a horde of banners and magical junk, you'll get events for low loyalty lords for them to gain loyalty in exchange for cash, or attrition damage. Its worth it: grey seer magic is a drat fine thing for dealing with dinosaur jerkwads. e: i was reading old posts and uh, im going to edit this thing nobody will read to admit raiding is actually The Smart Strategy, except you raid yourself and kill rebels. most the rest of the advice still stands but with everything noted about raiding, please add a (Except in the case of self-raiding, which is the smart and correct way to get a lot of food in a short time). Tiler Kiwi fucked around with this message at 10:35 on Jan 25, 2018 |
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Oct 16, 2017 07:21
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chaos has decent aesthetic but overall they're incredibly shallow. they are the metal murder men from your nightmares, and everything about them, from abilities to motivation, is based on a handful of characters, who are all humorless dicks.
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Oct 18, 2017 10:44
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Fangz posted:Didn't we get this exact argument about how boring and terrible the dork elves are before W2? i think the worst i ever said was that they're the trenchcoat mafia of elves. and that they're a bunch of prats. and i stand by these claims.
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Oct 18, 2017 11:11
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this is the old one's ideal race. you make not like it, but this is what peak plan looks like 
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Oct 18, 2017 13:31
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Having your vassals be a higher level than the faction leaader drops loyalty, yeah. Once loyalty gets low enough, you should get some events that let you raise it back up a bit, at least.
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Oct 18, 2017 17:43
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Kind of old news for everyone, but man, turning those portrait pothole things off significantly improved my FPS. Skaven VS Orc battles were getting pretty harsh on my frames. For Queeks start, you can kill the orcs in around six turns, then push south and conquer karak zorn. From there, the nearest pasture is literally Kroq Gar's capital city, because gently caress no rat hell start is complete without early game hell wars vs terrible lizard jerk. And Kroq Gar WILL come for you the moment you make contact with him. Getting a ruin grey seer early on to be able to bolt them repeatedly is probably a good idea, as are catapults and a globadier or two. Hunt11 posted:So what does cold blooded logic actually do? lizardmen seem more likely to peace out after you kick their rear end once or twice. The flavor text implies they care less about relations than current power balance and things like that. Tiler Kiwi fucked around with this message at 05:39 on Oct 27, 2017 |
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Oct 27, 2017 05:36
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Panfilo posted:So getting the 'Hates Undead' trait causes Fear vs Undead. But I thought Undead we immune to fear Tell that to Harry "the Hammer" Hammerstorm
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Oct 27, 2017 05:52
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 took me 105 turns  k8p also has two nice building chains, both giving a grab bag of boons, including +relations to other skaven (lol theyre all fuckin dead), +movement in the region, income, a few other things i dont remember, and another +3 food to go along with the pasture it has as well. i also had these two chowderheads be present in a gits army. they were not the leaders of the army, they just tagged along I guess??? in any case one imposter fell to queek, the other to some assassin, so, mystery, uh, sorted. e: oh yeah by the time i killed kroq and got my rear end into the badlands brawl, the greenskins were down to four settlements and the dwarfs were ascendent with 23-ish and 1st power ranking. so of course im locked in an eternal hell war now with them instead of running off to take over athel loren and all its +food forest cities. and brettonias pastures. oh well. Tiler Kiwi fucked around with this message at 20:02 on Oct 27, 2017 |
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Oct 27, 2017 19:59
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 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdu_FrYYrqg
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Oct 29, 2017 05:24
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Knobb Manwich posted:Hahaha you can be ambushed while sieging a settlement. Doing this to the dwarfs own. Its maybe the best thing the rats have over the stunties, since dwarfs REALLY suffer from being ambushed. You can just smash their ranged/arty and then run away and have your own stuff blow them up as they try to tundle at you.
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Nov 4, 2017 06:01
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 imagine being so loyal that your boss decides to piss on you
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Nov 7, 2017 15:15
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Going halfsies on the byzantine experience gives a trait that causes all lords in their region to have a chance to gain loyalty a turn. Pretty good, though kind of a dick move. Making him kill his puppy-rat in front of you gets a global +5 PO for 6 turns, but gives makes the lord upset and gives him a chance to lose loyalty for each of those turns.
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Nov 7, 2017 15:36
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Queek has very high AP damage, but his attacks don't splash much. He still should be build as a combat lord, because he's still a particularly killy guy. He's best used fighting high armor enemy elites, or against heroes/LL. The chaff issue is also mitigated when he gets verminous valor, but like all LLs that lack a mount he should still work in tandem with other infantry a majority of the time since there's some unspoken perks involved with that (splash attacks will deal less damage to them in a crowd than it would to a mounted lord being a big one). Due to his high AP, he can actually defeat most LL's 1v1 out of the box. People have actually complained about that, since he can beat up Archaon and Grimgor and thats ~against the lore~. Tho he still loses against the obvious combat monsters like durthu, kholek, and tyrion. Tiler Kiwi fucked around with this message at 03:55 on Nov 12, 2017 |
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Nov 12, 2017 03:51
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Ze Pollack posted:rats, who are against the concept on moral grounds 
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Nov 23, 2017 06:29
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It is a real counter intuitive thing, though, to not gain range when shooting from a higher position to a lower one. Elevation bonuses in general are pretty obscured.
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Nov 23, 2017 10:52
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GreyjoyBastard posted:That's utterly perfect. yeah the diplomacy lines are great, especially when its something lore screwy.  what sincerely annoys me about this game is that they didn't bother recording dialogue for future races for the old ones, so you get a lot of generic lines from earlier factions when playing a newer one. In my Queek ME campaign, I've had Louen and Karl offer me alliances and trade agreements, and I'd really like to hear their excuses for doing so.
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Nov 26, 2017 07:44
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LuiCypher posted:The answer to food with rats is: use the +2 food province commandment you dingus
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Nov 27, 2017 21:05
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game is good but still, lol at everything about this gently caress up
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Dec 5, 2017 23:17
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Poison wind globadiers (very specifically poison wind, not death globe) are the best skaven anti-large to deal with single unit monsters. Massed skavenslave slingers can do some damage as well. Lightning cannons aren't that great against the single target jerks, considering they'd have a better opportunity cost result from blasting elite infantry. Against massed stacks of monsters, even halberd stormvermin will get bowled over and destroyed too quickly to do any damage. You need that ranged to focus them down one by one. Tiler Kiwi fucked around with this message at 11:50 on Dec 7, 2017 |
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Dec 7, 2017 11:47
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