Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
burning swine
May 26, 2004



Shaggar posted:

that's not ntfs tho. that's the software raid controller which sits below ntfs.

yeah but the

uh

well gently caress



I guess it's windows that is bad then :shrug:

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

carry on then
Jul 10, 2010

by VideoGames

(and can't post for 10 years!)

z/os file system

The Management
Jan 2, 2010

sup, bitch?

RISCy Business posted:

you, stupid and misinformed: *throws 10 disks into a raidz1 and calls it a day*
me, enlightened and wise: *takes 10 disks, makes 5 mirror vdevs, adds an ssd for zil/slog*

splain the difference for those of us that aren't disk janitors.

I mean I get that one is a raid over all the disks and the other is a single volume of mirror devices. zfs isn't going to do 9 block parity, is it? or is it just that the io pattern is crazy on ten drives in raidz?

RISCy Business
Jun 17, 2015

bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork
Fun Shoe

The Management posted:

splain the difference for those of us that aren't disk janitors.

I mean I get that one is a raid over all the disks and the other is a single volume of mirror devices. zfs isn't going to do 9 block parity, is it? or is it just that the io pattern is crazy on ten drives in raidz?

there's actually a really good writeup about why you should do mirror vdevs instead of raidz: http://jrs-s.net/2015/02/06/zfs-you-should-use-mirror-vdevs-not-raidz/

basically what it boils down to is "mirror vdevs are more fault tolerant, more efficient, and easier to extend than raidz, don't get greedy and go for usable storage over stability"

there's a tl;dr at the bottom:

quote:

don’t be greedy. 50% storage efficiency is plenty.
for a given number of disks, a pool of mirrors will significantly outperform a RAIDZ stripe.
a degraded pool of mirrors will severely outperform a degraded RAIDZ stripe.
a degraded pool of mirrors will rebuild tremendously faster than a degraded RAIDZ stripe.
a pool of mirrors is easier to manage, maintain, live with, and upgrade than a RAIDZ stripe.
BACK. UP. YOUR POOL. REGULARLY. TAKE THIS SERIOUSLY.

echinopsis
Apr 13, 2004

by Fluffdaddy
exfat doesnt work on my tv but ntfs does

Silver Alicorn
Mar 30, 2008

𝓪 𝓻𝓮𝓭 𝓹𝓪𝓷𝓭𝓪 𝓲𝓼 𝓪 𝓬𝓾𝓻𝓲𝓸𝓾𝓼 𝓼𝓸𝓻𝓽 𝓸𝓯 𝓬𝓻𝓮𝓪𝓽𝓾𝓻𝓮
[quote="“Sagebrush”" post="“476839283”"]
i like exFAT, i guess
[/quote]

I was writing a universal FAT driver for Nintendo DS a while ago... even figured out how to use DLDI patches but I lost time and/or interest before I got past reading the partition table

RISCy Business
Jun 17, 2015

bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork
Fun Shoe
can we stop talking about filesystems that suck (i.e. everything that isn't zfs)

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

goose willis posted:

Reiser partitioned his wife


Poopernickel posted:

and got raided

Schadenboner
Aug 15, 2011

by Shine

goose willis posted:

Reiser partitioned his wife

And distributed her over several trees.

Jimmy Carter
Nov 3, 2005

THIS MOTHERDUCKER
FLIES IN STYLE
http://open-zfs.org/wiki/OpenZFS_Developer_Summit_2017

someone wanna go and tell me how dRAID is shaping up?

30 TO 50 FERAL HOG
Mar 2, 2005



actually btrfs owns

Shaggar
Apr 26, 2006

COACHS SPORT BAR posted:

yeah but the

uh

well gently caress



I guess it's windows that is bad then :shrug:

I think you'd probably want to do it in hardware tho.

akadajet
Sep 14, 2003

Jimmy Carter posted:

http://open-zfs.org/wiki/OpenZFS_Developer_Summit_2017

someone wanna go and tell me how dRAID is shaping up?

lol that this warrants a 2 day conference

Farmer Crack-Ass
Jan 2, 2001

this is me posting irl
i'm genuinely surprised microsoft hasn't yanked the software RAID out of windows yet

Cocoa Crispies
Jul 20, 2001

Vehicular Manslaughter!

Pillbug

Farmer Crack-rear end posted:

i'm genuinely surprised microsoft hasn't yanked the software RAID out of windows yet

well they still need misfeatures to trap dipshits like a college roommate who wanted to run software raid 0

The Management
Jan 2, 2010

sup, bitch?
I set up software raid1 with lunix on my work machine so that I can wait on garbage collection on two ssds instead on one.

Bloody
Mar 3, 2013

why would you store your post history on ssds

atomicthumbs
Dec 26, 2010


We're in the business of extending man's senses.

Comfy Fleece Sweater posted:

I mean reiserFS seemed very cool and interesting at the time, too bad about the murders, but really what's a little murder if you got a good fs out of it ?

did Microsoft ever come out with their WindowsFS thing

microsoft protogon, op

Tankakern
Jul 25, 2007

NEED MORE MILK posted:

actually btrfs owns

Tankakern
Jul 25, 2007

if only someone could sit down and make a new stream format with support for file flags, things would be perfect

Hed
Mar 31, 2004

Fun Shoe
[quote="“Bloody”" post="“476861221”"]
why would you store your post history on ssds
[/quote]

Hugh G. Rectum
Mar 1, 2011

usin zfs on my torrent box because its neat and idc if it deletes itself really

Notorious b.s.d.
Jan 25, 2003

by Reene

carry on then posted:

z/os file system

z/os has a filesystem but most applications don't really use it

the conventional way for applications to access storage is through userspace libraries that talk directly to a disk

Notorious b.s.d.
Jan 25, 2003

by Reene

Jimmy Carter posted:

http://open-zfs.org/wiki/OpenZFS_Developer_Summit_2017

someone wanna go and tell me how dRAID is shaping up?

lol zfs is so dead

  • oracle shows up with a sales presentation for a product they can't really support
    (90%+ of the solaris staff has been laid off)

  • LLNL talks about a feature no one will ever use
    (and they're not a vendor, so they can't support you, either)

  • a bunch of companies you've never heard of to round it out
    (yes let me bet my company's data on this six man company patching a solaris source snapshot from 2010 ported to another kernel)

i was right to avoid zfs all these years. as soon as opensolaris died, i assumed that oracle would eventually kill the core solaris, and here we are.

RISCy Business
Jun 17, 2015

bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork
Fun Shoe

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

lol zfs is so dead

  • oracle shows up with a sales presentation for a product they can't really support
    (90%+ of the solaris staff has been laid off)

  • LLNL talks about a feature no one will ever use
    (and they're not a vendor, so they can't support you, either)

  • a bunch of companies you've never heard of to round it out
    (yes let me bet my company's data on this six man company patching a solaris source snapshot from 2010 ported to another kernel)

i was right to avoid zfs all these years. as soon as opensolaris died, i assumed that oracle would eventually kill the core solaris, and here we are.

hmmmm... zfs is good

Notorious b.s.d.
Jan 25, 2003

by Reene

RISCy Business posted:

hmmmm... zfs was good

ftfy

eschaton
Mar 7, 2007

Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?
poor Sun, SunOS, Solaris, SMF, ZFS

if only Jonathan Schwartz hadn't thought he was Steve Jobs with a ponytail

what the hell has he even been doing since he shanked Sun?

Notorious b.s.d.
Jan 25, 2003

by Reene

eschaton posted:

poor Sun, SunOS, Solaris, SMF, ZFS

if only Jonathan Schwartz hadn't thought he was Steve Jobs with a ponytail

what the hell has he even been doing since he shanked Sun?

rolling in his piles of money and laughing

NeoHentaiMaster
Jul 13, 2004
More well adjusted then you'd think.

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

lol zfs is so dead

  • oracle shows up with a sales presentation for a product they can't really support
    (90%+ of the solaris staff has been laid off)

  • LLNL talks about a feature no one will ever use
    (and they're not a vendor, so they can't support you, either)

  • a bunch of companies you've never heard of to round it out
    (yes let me bet my company's data on this six man company patching a solaris source snapshot from 2010 ported to another kernel)

i was right to avoid zfs all these years. as soon as opensolaris died, i assumed that oracle would eventually kill the core solaris, and here we are.

This is a lovely thing to gloat over dude.

Cocoa Crispies
Jul 20, 2001

Vehicular Manslaughter!

Pillbug

NeoHentaiMaster posted:

This is a lovely thing to gloat over dude.

welcome to yospos, good to see you've been introduced to nbsd

RISCy Business
Jun 17, 2015

bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork
Fun Shoe
zfs is actually still good. namaste

OWLS!
Sep 17, 2009

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN
posting from zfs, i have no opinion.

SamDabbers
May 26, 2003



zfs is good, it's good that it's still being worked on by smart people, and it still does some things better than other file systems.

the freebsd implementation is excellent and well integrated, illumos is neat but will probably remain niche, and the linux port is getting better but will always be a second class citizen because of license lawyers. also nfs4 acls > posix acls c'mon linus

RISCy Business
Jun 17, 2015

bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork
Fun Shoe
zfs on linux is poop from a butt

alternatively: linux is poop from a butt

pram
Jun 10, 2001
with apfs, linux now has the worst filesystems out of all the operating systems. truly the least advanced os

akadajet
Sep 14, 2003

pram posted:

with apfs, linux now has the worst filesystems out of all the operating systems. truly the least advanced os

what was wrong with hfs+?

seriously, i don't know what was bad about it because when it comes to files systems they all look the same to me.

Star War Sex Parrot
Oct 2, 2003

akadajet posted:

what was wrong with hfs+?

seriously, i don't know what was bad about it because when it comes to files systems they all look the same to me.
no checksums of any kind (data or metadata), not aware of SSD access patterns, no copy on write, no data deduplication, no snapshotting, no sparse files. they basically lifted features from more modern file systems like F2FS, btrfs, and zfs (though certainly not everything)

they still take a slightly cavalier attitude toward data integrity by only checksumming metadata, but it seems like a solid file system from a features standpoint otherwise. I'm curious to read more about it when/if they publish more docs. more likely it'll have to get reverse engineered first

Generic Monk
Oct 31, 2011

Star War Sex Parrot posted:

no checksums of any kind (data or metadata), not aware of SSD access patterns, no copy on write, no data deduplication, no snapshotting, no sparse files. they basically lifted features from more modern file systems like F2FS, btrfs, and zfs (though certainly not everything)

they still take a slightly cavalier attitude toward data integrity by only checksumming metadata, but it seems like a solid file system from a features standpoint otherwise. I'm curious to read more about it when/if they publish more docs. more likely it'll have to get reverse engineered first

i can see why they didn't want to do full-on data checksumming what with the extra data that would eat up causing headaches and support calls galore from people upgrading. most likely it'll randomly turn up as an opt-in in a few years, if they can be bothered

was hfs+ particularly inferior to its contemporaries? i occasionally hear people saying it's worse than ntfs

Star War Sex Parrot
Oct 2, 2003

Generic Monk posted:

was hfs+ particularly inferior to its contemporaries? i occasionally hear people saying it's worse than ntfs
it had certainly fallen behind. it really needed to go once Apple became almost NAND-storage exclusive. at that point it made no sense not to be aping stuff from F2FS. rumor had it that the iOS team had internally forked HFS+ which certainly seemed untenable for the long term. if you're gonna start over, you might as well grab stuff from btrfs and zfs while you're at it

ntfs is pretty antiquated these days too, but MS has managed to slowly bolt features on. it's still missing some more modern ideas, but so is refs last I checked.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

atomicthumbs
Dec 26, 2010


We're in the business of extending man's senses.

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

z/os has a filesystem but most applications don't really use it

the conventional way for applications to access storage is through userspace libraries that talk directly to a disk

this is disturbing, to me

  • Locked thread