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Kchama posted:“Why aren’t you guys criticizing this book instead?!” isn’t the winning argument that you think it is. The thing is, we understood why all that happened as it did by the end of the very first book. Even if I don’t think Dune is particularly good, it at least does that. If Kingkiller Chronicles was complete and explained everything in a compelling, interesting way, then I think people’s opinion would be different. But it’s not, and it hasn’t. That’s the difference. In a serious answer - When he leaves Tarbean he has absolutely nothing tangible, just his wits, his traumas, his pride, and a desire to avenge his family. There's no real down from there. To lose something, he has to have the ability to acquire something precious enough to lose. The only reason of his to go to the university is to access the archives, to find out about the Chandrian. Something that he immediately loses access to and doesn't regain access to until book 2. It's a significant consequence. Sure, he picks up a bunch of other learnings and skills there, but he would throw it all away to get more information on the Chandrian (and sort of does at the end of book 1 when he runs off to the dragon town). The archive also potentially still holds two pieces of potentially valuable information, in the copper/stone doors, and yillish story knots. Access to the archieve the only valuable thing he seeks, at least initially - money is merely an issue because it's only of the only things that can prevent him from getting access, and it's the one thing that taken away from him. He gains two other things - friends, and power. Power, much like money, is not something he seeks for its own sake. He collects it as a tool he can use to better survive. In current day he has none, and he's quite content with that. He doesn't seek out friends, they're something that happen to him, a distraction from his vengeance. But his relationships become the things that become more valuable as anything that would help with his quest. Finally, there's his pride, of his ruh upbringing, of his his heritage and traditions. As he doesn't really have anything else a lot of the time, it's something he instincually doesn't like to lose. During his conflicts he usually lets his pride get in the way, and he ultimately loses ground on his quest(the only thing valuable to him). Some losses are minor, some distract, and some open the door to other opportunities, but it's pretty consistent that he has a set pattern of behaviour in which he acts in the interests of one thing at a cost to another. Now that he's built friendships, those are now potential valuable things that he may lose. "What has he lost" is a good question, but your other statements are somewhat redundant. He's not going to fail to find a way to face the Chandrian, regardless of what he loses, he will bring about that confrontation. That's a guaranteed outcome based on the "current day" Kote's situation. Kvothe's story is still in the accumulation stage, he's still in the process of acquiring information and power to do that. But we're not halfway through the story, we're on the second last day of it. *He's already lost it.* Assumedly, he has completed his mission, he's killed an Angel, probably has Cinder's sword on the mantle, and done a bunch of other reasonably impressive things. What has he lost? What does he have by the end of book 2 that he does not have in "current day?" He has presumably had his revenge and yet he regrets his life decisions, and is waiting to die. Based on his current decision making patterns and frequent foreshadowing, the costs of his decisions accumulate and hurt him in ways that transcend the satisfaction of avenging his family. That's text as written currently in the 2 books, you can draw your own conclusions, but I would have thought it obvious he's suffering the consequences of what he has done on page 1 of book 1. I thought that would be pretty understandable but apparently this whole thread is somehow just... made to troll me? I'll bow out now though.
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Mar 16, 2024 11:52
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Goffer posted:I guess they both wrote about a matriarchal culture of sex ninjas. Paul has been dead for at least 5000 years or so by the time of the "arrival" of the Honored Matres, so there are no points to score here. Also, the thing with a Duncan clone loving the Honored Matres into servitude (which is not actually what happens, but that doesn't matter, and what happens is pretty lolworthy regardless) was written by a hack years after Herbert's death, so this doesn't elevate Rothfuss' trash compared to Herbert's masterpieces, either.
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Mar 16, 2024 12:51
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Ugh, made me look it up again: >When Murbella, an Honored Matre, tries to sexually bond Idaho, he entraps and enslaves her, revealing the Tleilaxu purpose: To conquer the Honored Matres by using a better version of their own sexual techniques.... Idaho and Murbella are confined to a no-ship on Chapterhouse. There, Idaho trains young men to go out into the universe and enslave Honored Matres. That's in heretics dune, a Frankie original. Lol it's pretty... in depth https://theboywhocan11.tumblr.com/post/162920655227/heretics-of-dune-the-smut-scenes-on-pages-434-to . For context, is Duncan the hero at this point? Goffer fucked around with this message at 14:38 on Mar 16, 2024 |
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Mar 16, 2024 14:09
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Here's the thing: you'd be pretty hard-pressed to find someone who argues that Dune 5 and 6 are good. The more or less universal attitude is that the series is a downward slope (with some people, me included, thinking God Emperor the exception). I believe what you're doing here is building a strawman. The fact other books contain stupid poo poo doesn't make Rothfuss' stupid poo poo better.
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Mar 16, 2024 14:54
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Goffer posted:Ugh, made me look it up again: As anilEhilated wrote, nobody thinks Dune 5 and 6 are good. But that summary is also wrong, because he basically rocks Murbella's world so much that she falls in love with him iirc, so it's not exactly enslavement. Nevertheless, that specific scene was for sure one of the lowest points in a book full of them, so I'm not defending it at all. I'm not even prepared to argue that these books are better than NotW or WMF. But Dune 1 is a classic for a reason, and Paul is a thousand times better as a character than Kvothe. Edit: Slight tangent, but God Emperor is a fantastic book imho.
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Mar 16, 2024 15:22
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Goffer posted:Ugh, made me look it up again: Yes but Torrannor said "Herbert's masterpieces," of which Heretics is decidedly not one.
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Mar 16, 2024 15:30
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poo poo Fuckasaurus posted:Yes but Torrannor said "Herbert's masterpieces," of which Heretics is decidedly not one. I admit I was confused, I can't keep the timeline of post-God Emperor straight, and can't recall off the top of my head which books were written by Herbert and which were written by that Star Wars writer.
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Mar 16, 2024 15:42
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"It's funny to compare Pat to Frank." [She felt the swift release of lubricant fluid] "No not that Frank."  make up your minds
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Mar 16, 2024 16:00
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Goffer posted:"It's funny to compare Pat to Frank." Your literary knowledge seems to be sourced from youtube videos, tropes pages, and now Tumblr. Maybe read a different book.
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Mar 16, 2024 16:12
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I would but he hasn't written it yet. Another similarity between Frank and Pat, they both died before finishing their series.
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Mar 16, 2024 21:58
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If Kvothe is an unreliable narrator and the real Edema Ruh aren't as inherently flawless as he claims, am I to conclude that Kvothe didn't actually restrain himself from raping the girls he rescued? It'd actually explain a lot of the story if the reality is "incel gets magic powers and use them to go on a rape spree," like escaping from the sex fairy, the barmaid suddenly liking him, why everyone he knows now shuns him, etc. Except Bast still hangs around him, but he must be like those guys that idolize Elliott Rogers. Until a third book says otherwise, I think I'm going with this as my interpretation.
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Mar 16, 2024 22:12
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The first two books are actually works of genius because of how well they set up the third book. Also there is no third book and never will be.
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Mar 16, 2024 23:09
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Maybe someone here could get AI to write that third book?
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Mar 17, 2024 00:50
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Goffer posted:In a serious answer - When he leaves Tarbean he has absolutely nothing tangible, just his wits, his traumas, his pride, and a desire to avenge his family. There's no real down from there. To lose something, he has to have the ability to acquire something precious enough to lose. Tarbean didn't even effect him. I think it gets one mention after it is over, with the explanation that his mind was sleeping so he didn't carry it with him (and also to explain why he didn't do... anything ever to get out of the situation that he had, because it was a short story dropped in and when it was written he didn't know magic or have friends outside Tarbean who could help him or the book). And the mention was a clumsy attempt to retcon it more or less saying that he had been caught and raped by the roving band of rape-boys. With him going "Oh yeah they never got me." Also, did we read the same books? A huge amount of the plot in both books is his quest for money. He spends more time on it than he does his revenge! He also hangs out with his friends a lot. And it isn't like they have to fight to befriend him or anything. It pretty quickly becomes "Oh yeah there's these two guys, I'm pals with them now. They're rich but I don't let them help me." He has the girls who all have crushes on him, Denna, the teachers. He is not a hard person to befriend. He doesn't ever turn them down because he doesn't give a poo poo about doing friend-stuff because he's too focused on revenge. He spends a large amount of time and money just loving around with them. They've all shown up way more than his thoughts about revenge. That's something that's a lot more ever-present with Kvothe. He's very easily distracted from his quest for revenge and to save Denna from her mysterious patron. He fucks the fae goddess for fae-months and is only motivated into leaving by news of Denna's distress, only to immediately start loving all the ladies in town and then running off to the Sex Ninja village for months. which turned out to be an incredibly fruitful endeavor when I don't think anything from it has actually shown up again outside the fact that he has a cool sword now. He is the least vengeance-focused person I know of. Kchama fucked around with this message at 01:06 on Mar 17, 2024 |
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Mar 17, 2024 00:56
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Ah yes, the character torn between saving himself and his remaining family at the cost of a billion deaths across the galaxy burned in his name, or letting the most evil people the universe has ever known commit a genocide on a group of indigenous people is definitely someone we should compare to *checks notes* the smug teenager who is really good at sex but for whom we don't actually know what the central conflict* is because the narrator hasn't gotten there. *we have seen plenty of themes, but outside of some vague investigation of the Chandrian, there's not like an actual plot in these books; it's pure meandering
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Mar 17, 2024 01:51
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Atlas Hugged posted:Ah yes, the character torn between saving himself and his remaining family at the cost of a billion deaths across the galaxy burned in his name, or letting the most evil people the universe has ever known commit a genocide on a group of indigenous people is definitely someone we should compare to *checks notes* the smug teenager who is really good at sex but for whom we don't actually know what the central conflict* is because the narrator hasn't gotten there. every time a famous book's movie comes out some people experience it then think that by reading a bunch of tv tropes pages and fan wikis they are now literature critics
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Mar 17, 2024 01:56
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Far be it from me to criticise post on the forum but the sheer amount of words and thoughts devoted to this vaporware series is amazing. It's an unfinished middling fantasy series, it's really only the author being a massive poo poo that gives it any relevance.
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Mar 17, 2024 02:15
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branedotorg posted:Far be it from me to criticise post on the forum but the sheer amount of words and thoughts devoted to this vaporware series is amazing. It's an unfinished middling fantasy series, it's really only the author being a massive poo poo that gives it any relevance. It use to be one of the biggest fantasy series of its time with scores of raving fans. It never being finished combined with the author being a huge rear end in a top hat is why love for the series cooled down and people realized its mediocreness.
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Mar 17, 2024 02:47
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AngusPodgorny posted:If Kvothe is an unreliable narrator and the real Edema Ruh aren't as inherently flawless as he claims, am I to conclude that Kvothe didn't actually restrain himself from raping the girls he rescued? Well he debatably raped Felurian, so...
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Mar 17, 2024 04:10
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Kchama posted:
Why does he need money? Every time, to cover tuition, to stay in uni, so he can access the archives (even banned, it's still his most likely avenue of finding information). Once he gets access, he barely sees his friends, he only really sees them when they pull him away, or for Denna related reasons. That he spends money freely when he has it, only points to his impulsiveness. He goes to Vint because his tuition would be set at an unattainable level (meaning no access to the archives), and the idea that nobility often have their own private libraries that aren't censored like the archives. Why does he go to the sex ninjas village? Because they encounter a Chandrian in the forest, and Temu knows about them, and his people know more. He explicitly mentioned that to the elder, that he was there for information (and also so his friend does not get excommunicated). That other things happen does not detract from that. In all cases, he comes to value his friends, but his driving motivation at all times is on finding out any information about the Chandrian.
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Mar 17, 2024 04:28
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Now I'm imagining a book where he actually learns interesting things about the Chandrian.branedotorg posted:Far be it from me to criticise post on the forum but the sheer amount of words and thoughts devoted to this vaporware series is amazing. It's an unfinished middling fantasy series, it's really only the author being a massive poo poo that gives it any relevance. It's still one of the highest rated SFF series on Goodreads and for some reason Rothfuss' reputation hasn't particularly suffered for any of the dumb poo poo he has said or written (beyond from, you know, not writing anything anymore). Also I personally got more from reading negative reviews of WMF than from reading NOTW (for example, they spared me from having to actually read WMF). And I find it somewhat amusing when someone tries to assert that Kvothe is anything more than a Gary Stu self-insert when almost all of the fans of the series gush about what a great, fascinating and ultimately well-intentioned character he is. Precambrian Video Games fucked around with this message at 04:38 on Mar 17, 2024 |
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Mar 17, 2024 04:35
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I wouldn't say he's well-intentioned at all, he's almost entirely self interested. His motives aren't to make the world a better place. He's chaotic neutral
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Mar 17, 2024 04:57
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Goffer posted:Why does he need money? Every time, to cover tuition, to stay in uni, so he can access the archives (even banned, it's still his most likely avenue of finding information). Once he gets access, he barely sees his friends, he only really sees them when they pull him away, or for Denna related reasons. That he spends money freely when he has it, only points to his impulsiveness. The problem with the money plot is that it is incredibly uninteresting. He needs it, sure, but it really should be a side-plot compared to everything else. He goes to Vint mostly because he was told he wasn’t welcome at the university for a bit, with the private library idea being a side-thought. Sam with the sex ninjas. Helping his friend is actually the primary motivation compared to learning about the Chandrian, and he learns nothing he didn’t already know. That’s one of the big problems, every single Chandrian side-quest has had the Chandrian be the side-part of the sidequest. With Denna he did it to help Denna first and foremost, with the Chandrian artifacts being a nice bonus. He needed to do something to earn money while he was out of the academy and there was a job-offering, and info on the Chandrian was a secondary concern. At the sex ninjas he needed to help his friend and getting info was a fringe benefit. In all of these cases, other concerns come first, and Chandrian info is more or less icing on the cake.
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Mar 17, 2024 05:07
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Kchama posted:The problem with the money plot is that it is incredibly uninteresting. He needs it, sure, but it really should be a side-plot compared to everything else. He goes to Vint mostly because he was told he wasn’t welcome at the university for a bit, with the private library idea being a side-thought. Sam with the sex ninjas. Helping his friend is actually the primary motivation compared to learning about the Chandrian, and he learns nothing he didn’t already know. That’s one of the big problems, every single Chandrian side-quest has had the Chandrian be the side-part of the sidequest. With Denna he did it to help Denna first and foremost, with the Chandrian artifacts being a nice bonus. He needed to do something to earn money while he was out of the academy and there was a job-offering, and info on the Chandrian was a secondary concern. At the sex ninjas he needed to help his friend and getting info was a fringe benefit. In all of these cases, other concerns come first, and Chandrian info is more or less icing on the cake. The funniest and laziest example is the month he spends wandering the woods aimlessly rolling on the random encounter table looking for bandits until he finally finds them, which "progresses the Chandrian plot" in the sense that 200 pages of fairy sex later the doomtree says "oh by the way one of those bandits was a Chandrian for some reason".
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Mar 17, 2024 06:00
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Goffer posted:That's text as written currently in the 2 books, you can draw your own conclusions, but I would have thought it obvious he's suffering the consequences of what he has done on page 1 of book 1. I thought that would be pretty understandable but apparently this whole thread is somehow just... made to troll me? you have misread the thread almost as severely as you have misread the series the thread is centered on
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Mar 17, 2024 06:55
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TV Zombie posted:Maybe someone here could get AI to write that third book? I bet a talentless hack like rothfuss is salivating at the thought of having AI do his work for him so he can spend more time rearranging his cereal boxes.
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Mar 17, 2024 09:02
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Willeh posted:I bet a talentless hack like rothfuss is salivating at the thought of having AI do his work for him so he can spend more time rearranging his cereal boxes. I more expect him to do some dramatic reveal about how AI is stealing the life's work of artists and he cannot write the third book safely until AI legislation is passed to protect authors.
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Mar 17, 2024 17:23
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The problem with money being a driver for the plot is that it hangs around too long. For nearly the entirety of 2 books, money is the biggest or (more often) only problem Kvothe has. We're told he's a talented musician and (after the first book) a talented artificer, and indeed he does make money from these things, but it's never enough except when it is. He could even tutor other students, presumably for shitloads given the way tuition is assigned and the mass of noble failchildren enrolled. The entire money subplot therefore revolves around Kvothe simply choosing not to do the extremely profitable work he can do, except when he has literally no other option and deadlines are looming, and choosing instead to pursue extracurriculars like chasing women. It's a lack of growth. He doesn't conquer money, because being poor is something Rothfuss feels comfortable writing. He loses everything over and over, reduced back down to the clothes on his back, but it's still not growth because the person underneath is still the same stupid shithead. Think about it, halfway through the second book he goes to Vintas and finds out the Mayor is being slowly poisoned. There's little urgency here, as this has been going on for months at a minimum, but he injects himself into the problem immediately to no benefit. When his plan derails because the birds seemingly won't die, he proceeds to leave the grounds without permission, which is the most suspicious thing he could do short of stabbing the mayor. There are other, better options, of course, but he doesn't take them, and then he has an outburst and the situation happens to solve itself because we happen to find out that the manservant has been disposing of dead birds. If Deus Ex Machina did not step in there, Kvothe would be dead. This is evidence his wits and smarts are insufficient to protect him from a situation he created after a book and a half of what should be personal growth. How is he supposed to help others when he digs himself holes he cannot escape? Why doesn't he get better at this by the midpoint of Book Two Of Three?
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Mar 17, 2024 18:27
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I think we all forgot that Rothfuss has been saying that perhaps a trilogy is too small to contain his story, and it would take 4 books(maybe even 5)
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Mar 17, 2024 18:47
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TV Zombie posted:Maybe someone here could get AI to write that third book? Still hoping that this somehow ends up in Brandon Sanderson's hands and he bangs out the last book in like a month and a half
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Mar 17, 2024 18:51
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pentyne posted:I think we all forgot that Rothfuss has been saying that perhaps a trilogy is too small to contain his story, and it would take 4 books(maybe even 5) It was always pretty obvious that the story wasn't going to be resolved in just the three books worth of flashbacks as things are bad in the framing device and so all of that will have to be taken care of. poo poo Fuckasaurus posted:The problem with money being a driver for the plot is that it hangs around too long. For nearly the entirety of 2 books, money is the biggest or (more often) only problem Kvothe has. We're told he's a talented musician and (after the first book) a talented artificer, and indeed he does make money from these things, but it's never enough except when it is. He could even tutor other students, presumably for shitloads given the way tuition is assigned and the mass of noble failchildren enrolled. The entire money subplot therefore revolves around Kvothe simply choosing not to do the extremely profitable work he can do, except when he has literally no other option and deadlines are looming, and choosing instead to pursue extracurriculars like chasing women. Yep. That's how it usually works in the books, too. He's saved from his dumb decisions by others. The only one he suffers from is the Tarbean one (where he decides to stay and turn off his mind despite having a billion of other, better options) and that's because he's needed to spin his wheels there until he is old enough to go to university. Oh speaking of university, the reason why I theorize that it was originally just Wizard High School is that no one seems to notice he's suppose to be like a decade younger than everyone else. I know I've mentioned it before, but just think about it. Sim and Wil don't seem to have any trouble hanging out with an underage kid, drinking and trying to pick up women with him. Draco Malfoy, I mean Ambrose, seems extremely threatened by this kid who was rude to him. The women seem to have very easy crushes on him. It's like the book itself has forgotten he's suppose to be the youngest person there by quite a bit.
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Mar 17, 2024 19:37
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Kchama posted:It was always pretty obvious that the story wasn't going to be resolved in just the three books worth of flashbacks as things are bad in the framing device and so all of that will have to be taken care of. He's like 15 in the book and his youngest academic 'peers' are in their earlier 20s in the youngest? Is there an actual timelapse between NOTW and WMF or is the back half about a high school age boy loving adult women nonstop?
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Mar 17, 2024 20:14
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pentyne posted:He's like 15 in the book and his youngest academic 'peers' are in their earlier 20s in the youngest? At the end of WMF, Kvothe celebrates his 17th birthday. That's also when he realizes he's not entirely sure how long he spent in the timeless sex fairy's sex goddess sex meadow sexing the sex fairy sex goddess, and that while he thought it was a few months, it could possibly have maybe been as long as a year. So at his most generous estimate, by the end of the series he's maybe just turned 18. At this time, he is loving every woman in the University and Imre except for Denna, who is still very good friends with him after he called her a stupid whore but refuses to gently caress him, which makes Kvothe sad.
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Mar 17, 2024 20:40
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He's also probably wrong with his age because if you actually count up the time skips in the early section, he's only like 15, not 16 like he thinks. But yes, he's definitely underage doing all of that.
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Mar 17, 2024 20:55
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The argument about Dune vs Kingkiller made me remember the Sun Eater series, which steals liberally from both.
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Mar 18, 2024 00:51
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poo poo Fuckasaurus posted:The problem with money being a driver for the plot is that it hangs around too long. For nearly the entirety of 2 books, money is the biggest or (more often) only problem Kvothe has. We're told he's a talented musician and (after the first book) a talented artificer, and indeed he does make money from these things, but it's never enough except when it is. He could even tutor other students, presumably for shitloads given the way tuition is assigned and the mass of noble failchildren enrolled. The entire money subplot therefore revolves around Kvothe simply choosing not to do the extremely profitable work he can do, except when he has literally no other option and deadlines are looming, and choosing instead to pursue extracurriculars like chasing women. Pretty sure the music isn't profitable because Ambrose shuts down any interest in him from wealthy patrons, most bars have him blacklisted as a performer, and the only regular gig he has is his lovely pub (the fancy music venue seems to have a reputation and a rotating performer list, probably doesn't have too many repeat performances?) But also impulsiveness and poor decision making is why he's currently on the outskirts of nowhere working in a pub, that's not going to get better soon. I would be thought the "It's worked out so far" is predictably(?) building to a catastrophic fall from grace/hubris moment. (That will never come because the books won't be finished). It feels like the semi-recent criticism of She-Hulk for being "instantly in control of her powers" in the first episode. It's a reasonably predictable moment of hubris and set up for the critical moment where she loses control in the final episodes, but apparently a lot of people set out to criticise the point.
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Mar 18, 2024 00:56
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Goffer posted:Pretty sure the music isn't profitable because Ambrose shuts down any interest in him from wealthy patrons, most bars have him blacklisted as a performer, and the only regular gig he has is his lovely pub (the fancy music venue seems to have a reputation and a rotating performer list, probably doesn't have too many repeat performances?) He's like, 17. Being an impulsive kid is not really surprising or all that shocking. There's at least eight years between the flashbacks and the modern day. And even despite that, he doesn't really need to work for money anymore as he activated his money cheat so he'll be getting lots of money from the foreign patron for free, through a scheme that still doesn't really make any sense. Making his aunt mad wasn't even THAT big a deal since he was basically done there anyways and it was an excuse to send him home with his money problems solved for the moment. Also you seem to be arguing both that he's already had his suffering from his fatal flaw and also that the fatal flaw isn't hurting him now because it'll come back for him later so he can have a fall from grace. I'm not sure this is really foretold in the books at all the indications of what his 'fall from grace' will be. Which doesn't seem to be THAT big a fall, considering that he's currently a legendary figure who even cynical skeptics are in awe of just by seeing an expression on his face. We really don't have any indications that his current state is due to him impulsively causing trouble. His main impulsiveness is with Ambrose, whose beef with him really is just kind of pathetic on the whole. There's just not enough to figure out why that would make him the sad-sack who has lost his name in the current day. Like maybe Ambrose becomes king and kills Denna and Kvothe super magic ultra-kills him and breaks the sidewalk cobblestones permanently in a way that it can't repaired! (Nevermind you replace them, not repair them...), but even then that would be a pretty reasonable reaction to someone killing your girlfriend in front of you. And that's just all guesswork, too. The fact that we know so little of the important parts of his legendarium really hurts the story. We've heard the big stories in very vague passing, while all the focus has been on his literal college frat party days.
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Mar 18, 2024 01:18
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poo poo Fuckasaurus posted:If you think Bast will contradict Kvothe then you missed the end of the first book where Bast loses his poo poo on Chronicler in his room because the point of tricking Chronicler into coming was to convince Kvothe to stop being a sad old man. That's the point, the only goal, and telling the story is incidental to that. My guess is that in the third book (if it ever comes out, or in book four if he can't actually wrap this nonsense up in a trilogy), we will find out that Kvothe is a designated Unreliable Narrator, but it's because he's been underselling how amazing he is because he's sad it went wrong, and not that a real person couldn't possibly live up to the legends. Kchama posted:He's like, 17. That's the other thing. He's not an interesting character and trying to shield him behind "flaws" is ridiculous. He's just a typical teenager that has plot armor or big events happen around him for no other reason than he's the main character. There's not a thing about his character that is in any way compelling. Edit: To go back to Paul Atreides, he's also just a kid, but the adults in the world seem to understand and acknowledge that. They specifically try to educate him because of his youth and the story frames his handling of the story's conflicts through the lens of his inexperience, in his fumbling, in enemies underestimating him, and in his growth and progression as a character. By the end of the first novel, he's a father, basically married, and winning at politics because he has a loaded gun held to the galaxy's head and is finally willing to pull the trigger. That all happens in one book and it's a believable journey for Paul to have been on. Across two novels, we see zero growth in Kvothe. He's just as whiny as when the story started, he has the same problems because they appear to be the only ones that Rothfuss can write about (hating women, being poor), but he's also super good at everything and has lots of sex. Chandrian? Oh, yeah, we should deal with them eventually. Book 3. Maybe books 4 or 5. Atlas Hugged fucked around with this message at 02:09 on Mar 18, 2024 |
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Mar 18, 2024 01:55
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Atlas Hugged posted:He's just a typical teenager that has plot armor or big events happen around him for no other reason than he's the main character... Paul Atreides
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Mar 18, 2024 07:45
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Atlas Hugged posted:By the end of the first novel, he's a father, basically married, and winning at politics because he has a loaded gun held to the galaxy's head and is finally willing to pull the trigger. That all happens in one book and it's a believable journey for Paul to have been on. There are 2 Pauls, young and older Paul, seperated by a *7 years later* interlude. The Paul in either half is a static entity, there's no growth to his character within either section. Acquiring a family is not character growth - not even the death of his son changes his character. Young Paul would use the same tactics as older Paul if he were in the same situation. The only difference between the two is his conviction, which is pretty easy to show with a *7 years later* time skip. (In the same vein could as easily say the Kvothe to Kote 7 year transition is "character growth", as Kote has learnt and changed from his experiences.) Goffer fucked around with this message at 08:43 on Mar 18, 2024 |
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Mar 18, 2024 08:28
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