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Thinking about it some more, Monika's not really attracted to the player as much as desperately seeking some connection with the real world, isn't she? She certainly isn't interested in what you have to say.
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Feb 2, 2018 09:05
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Well yes. I feel it would be a very (spoilers for a few years old movie and DDLC too)ex machina ending with the way she clearly has no qualms about hurting/killing others to escape what she perceives to be her prison, if she were to ever be given even a moment's opportunity.
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Feb 2, 2018 09:22
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TheGreatEvilKing posted:Thinking about it some more, Monika's not really attracted to the player as much as desperately seeking some connection with the real world, isn't she? She certainly isn't interested in what you have to say. She's in love with the idea of you, I think. She's sure there's a deep kinship, that you and her really get each other. Whatever you're like, the connection is the most important for both of you. Or, at least it's enough for her. There is a Real Person, and she loves him or her, and the Real Person loves her back (right?!?) so she's Real and Matters and both of them are going to be happy forever. Only she doesn't read things right. Given how it ends, there seems to be some specific love, but I think part of it comes from the fact she needs someone to love, and the player's there. A symbol that means more than it was ever meant to hold. Pretty rough on everyone, there.
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Feb 2, 2018 09:36
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Phobophilia posted:I agree with his point that first half is strongest, because it’s a story about people and pain. When it goes bleeding eyes horror, that’s just silly. Yuri’s suicide hurts though. I think having the sillier things in the second half wasn't a bad idea or anything, because it made things like the poem from Monika(?) about cutting herself, Natsuki's bad home life, and the point when Yuri/Natsuki take the claws out instead of just cutesy arguing over ~MC-Kun~ a lot more jarring and uncomfortable.
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Feb 2, 2018 15:48
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I think the tragedy of the game is that Despite supposedly being 'sentient' and self aware, Monika is still trapped in the paradigm of school romcom VNs; she's still madly, hopelessly and unalterably in love with the protagonist, simply because he's the protagonist. In trying to avoid her programming, she's ultimately playing out her programming. When you get right down to it, she's no different than the other girls, other than that she's able to take a more active approach, so to speak, in pursuing that end goal.
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Feb 2, 2018 16:00
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I personally agree that act one is a much heavier hitter than act two, but it's probably largely because I've gone through/am actively going through the same kind of poo poo that Sayori dealt with and seeing it laid down so well hit me like a sledgehammer. Aside from that, I've been doing a lot of thinking about why the game had to be the way that it was. Why did Monika need to make the girls kill themselves? If she had control over the world then she should have been able to make an excuse plot about the girls moving away suddenly and not traumatizing the player so much. An uncharitable person would say that spook sells better, but I'd like to give it more credit than that. What I've come up with is that Monika is, by either her nature or her programming, forced to get you to choose her, rather than just removing all other options. She can't just force you to do that, or it wouldn't be "love", it would just be hostage taking. Instead she acts like an old school faerie, drastically changing things so that there is no real choice, but not *technically* making the choice for you. At least until she drops the masquerade and just wipes the whole thing clean. It's been bothering me a bit because by all measures Monika is not a bad person, just someone who is in the worst possible situation she could be in, and the idea that she is some sort of sadist doesn't really gel with her character in my head.
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Feb 3, 2018 08:02
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Go look up the conversations you have in her room, in particular the sayori one and tell me she's not exactly that.
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Feb 3, 2018 09:19
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DreamShipWrecked posted:I personally agree that act one is a much heavier hitter than act two, but it's probably largely because I've gone through/am actively going through the same kind of poo poo that Sayori dealt with and seeing it laid down so well hit me like a sledgehammer. It seems like she only has the ability to alter values and traits that already exist in the game, or just start erasing and breaking things. Even if she tried to change things so that the other characters left, it's likely that it would be similar to them being deleted, or at best some sort of stasis or sensory deprivation.
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Feb 3, 2018 11:07
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Captain Invictus posted:Go look up the conversations you have in her room, in particular the sayori one and tell me she's not exactly that. You don't even need the room talks, just how she directs you to Sayori is the one where I decided "gently caress you" and why I had no sympathy for them
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Feb 3, 2018 18:33
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DreamShipWrecked posted:I personally agree that act one is a much heavier hitter than act two, but it's probably largely because I've gone through/am actively going through the same kind of poo poo that Sayori dealt with and seeing it laid down so well hit me like a sledgehammer. Monika doesn't intentionally try to kill them, its just a result of her messing with thier personalities constantly, she even says as much. the entirety of the game is Monika trying a million different ways to change the game to escape her personal hell and failing badly at all of them, justifying it to herself with "they're just programs". Even then she backs them up and restores them in the end, which people kind of gloss over
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Feb 3, 2018 19:10
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Tengames posted:Monika doesn't intentionally try to kill them, its just a result of her messing with thier personalities constantly, she even says as much. the entirety of the game is Monika trying a million different ways to change the game to escape her personal hell and failing badly at all of them, justifying it to herself with "they're just programs". Even then she backs them up and restores them in the end, which people kind of gloss over I suppose that makes sense, but she had to know in some sense what was going on. The weird thing is that the game still has a weird inertia to it that implies that either Monika is decent at rewriting it (which she is shown not to be), or the game itself is adapting to the changes in the game. When Sayori dies the entire intro rewrites itself seamlessly (after the first glitch, of course), implying that it's actually somewhat receptive to alterations without totally breaking. It's just weird that the screw-ups would happen so often after that. But I'm probably overthinking it.
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Feb 3, 2018 19:14
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DreamShipWrecked posted:I personally agree that act one is a much heavier hitter than act two, but it's probably largely because I've gone through/am actively going through the same kind of poo poo that Sayori dealt with and seeing it laid down so well hit me like a sledgehammer. It's implied that Monika's causing all the changes by messing with the game's code. However, it's also implied that she's not actually a very good programmer, and that all the weird glitches are a result of her ham-fisted attempts at reprogramming. "They went away to a big farm up state" is probably beyond her skill level.
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Feb 3, 2018 23:53
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Tomn posted:It's implied that Monika's causing all the changes by messing with the game's code. However, it's also implied that she's not actually a very good programmer, and that all the weird glitches are a result of her ham-fisted attempts at reprogramming. "They went away to a big farm up state" is probably beyond her skill level. She says flat out that it was all she could to to make the featureless room for you and her to hang out in. Besides, there’s also clearly a sort of of ontological inertia in the game that she’s unable to beat. It’s part of the same conceit as her being self aware at all.
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Feb 4, 2018 00:15
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I imagine it's similar to the difference between decompiling source code and messing with an INI or config file: One of them is a lot harder than the other, and requires a completely different skill set. The way i read it was not so much Monika programming the game as Monika scripting the game.... and because she was only scripting it and not prorgramming it, the game's engine was still figuring out how to adapt to / read her inputs, thus requiring a lot of trial and error for her to get the results she wanted. It's like Command and Conquer: Red Alert from back in the day. Anyone ever play that? Messing with the game engine itself was pretty much impossible.... but if you were playing as the allies, for example, then it was totally possible to go into an INI file and give the allied tank five times the attack speed and a quarter the cost, while making the soviet tanks die in a single hit, or something like that. You couldn't remove the soviet tanks from the game entirely, but you could completely change their nature so as to remove their threat.
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Feb 4, 2018 03:33
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Captain Invictus posted:Oh, and the Game Grumps did an LP of DDLC and it's absolutely fantastic, what with them doing a lot of voices. Arin goes in completely spoiled as the player, while Dan is brought in 100% blind, and seemingly isn't shown the warning at the start either. I don't really watch Game Grumps normally, but I had a lot of mindless busy work to do last night and figured I'd give this a shot. I'm currently an episode after the poo poo hits the fan and the whole thing has been incredibly rewarding. It isn't just Dan being unaware that he's going to have the rug pulled out from under him. The stuff starts to go down in part 21, so you have 20 12-minute long episodes of setup where they do silly voices and take their time way too much. All in one day. The only thing keeping it going is Dan admittedly being taken in by the charm and being told that there's some kind of twist (which he 100% misjudges). But so many hours of keeping up the voices and enduring uneventful scenes that go on and on really start to wear him down and he is so ready to be done with it. Plus there are so many instances of him making jokes where he accidentally calls out stuff that's going to happen. When minor stuff gets weird, he notices, but shrugs it off without thinking too hard. When stuff starts getting heavy, he feels bad about using the high-pitched cartoony voice for something so serious, but still doesn't know what he's in for. Not only is the initial reaction golden, but the way he's borderline catatonic afterwards is just as good.
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Feb 10, 2018 21:09
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Reminds me of the good old days when my uncle ran into one of the copyright protection bits in an ancient adventure game (it might have been Leisure Suit Larry) but didn't have the manual and couldn't figure any way around it. So he went into the files and started deleting poo poo in the hopes he would somehow get rid of that bit of the game. It still wound up being there but that entire part of the game was a largely blank white void with some garbled text. And a copy protection lock.
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Feb 10, 2018 21:23
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Gavok posted:I don't really watch Game Grumps normally, but I had a lot of mindless busy work to do last night and figured I'd give this a shot. I'm currently an episode after the poo poo hits the fan and the whole thing has been incredibly rewarding. Yeah, the few episodes after Sayori where Dan feels like he cannot trust anything, not the game or arin or anything anymore is just... 
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Feb 10, 2018 23:46
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 SPOILERShttps://i.imgur.com/8FjgTZU.png https://i.imgur.com/FPTqo5J.png https://i.imgur.com/wVoH8Nv.png https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6gBu2Zd7Bc Made by ibbledibblescribbles
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Feb 11, 2018 09:26
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https://medium.com/@lesmocon/doki-doki-literature-club-is-a-pointless-celebration-of-itself-538e733f4b14 https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/article/kzp7gy/doki-doki-literature-club-history-visual-novels?utm_source=wptwitterus a pair of things written about and critiquing ddlc the game reaches towards but does not quite achieve greatness
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Feb 15, 2018 11:30
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Phobophilia posted:the game reaches towards but does not quite achieve greatness
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Feb 15, 2018 19:34
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I hadn't actually read this thread but read Roar's LP of this when that was going on. I just saw some stuff about this game yesterday and that got me back into looking at discussion/reactions to it, and I found out a fangame called Doki Doki Rainclouds literally just came out: https://www.cykadev.com/rainclouds/. It follows the story of DDLC from Sayori's point of view up until the end of Act 1. I just started this myself so I haven't gotten to anything that crazy storywise, if there even is anything. I assume nothing that happens is going to be totally unexpected. Having had depression since high school, between the two games depictions of Sayori there's some interesting stuff I kind of want to say about how depression is portrayed. I've seen this said before but DDLC Sayori is pretty spot on with the depression symptoms in a way that people who have never experienced it generally get wrong, but at the same time it seems a lot like Dan read an article/Wiki page about depression and just checked off the boxes of symptoms. I think DDRC does more to elaborate on what it's really like being depressed, but at the same time there's some clumsiness in the writing. When retreading the first day of DDLC, Sayori has something self-deprecating to say about every line of dialogue that happens. I kind of get that it was probably the first thing the dev wrote, and he really wanted to put more of Sayori into it, but it feels really over the top for me and not particularly well written. On the other hand, the bits where Sayori is shown by herself and introspecting absolutely nail the feelings I get pretty regularly. Obviously people experience depression differently, but for me personally I do in fact hide it with most people even when I'm feeling my worst, but Sayori here is full blown 100% unable to contextualize any moment of the game without talking about how worthless she is while I don't think that's really accurate. Most of the time I'm still able to put things aside and just function as normal. That said, there are a lot of things that are common symptoms that I don't get, so it really depends on the person. Sayori is shown to skip food and have trouble getting out of bed every day, which are definitely very common symptoms, but outside of being too sleepy to get up because I only got 4 hours of sleep or putting off a meal for a few hours both of those things are fairly automatic to me. Without getting more into it, though, I will say that there's a scene where Sayori walks through a park and I had to just stop playing the game and put it down because it hit so close to home for me. The whole scene could have been changed to a guy walking through a park after work and staring out into the lake for half an hour and it would have been indistinguishable from me writing about actual things I've actually done repeatedly on days when my depression has been the worst.
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Feb 25, 2018 05:08
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Phobophilia posted:https://medium.com/@lesmocon/doki-doki-literature-club-is-a-pointless-celebration-of-itself-538e733f4b14 God game reviewers are useless. Both these articles miss the forest for the trees and rate the game as a straight visual novel. Why even have discussions of mental illness and obsession? gently caress it! You can't bang the gothy chick, 2/10. Christ.
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Feb 25, 2018 05:20
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DreamShipWrecked posted:God game reviewers are useless. For some reason paying people to review games always results in absolute poo poo-tier critiques. I only ever search random people on youtube (or if available, some youtuber I know and at least somewhat like) and see what they think of it. As imprecise as it may be, it's yielded far, far, far more useful results than any professional game review site ever has.
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Feb 25, 2018 05:48
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Can't blame em because at the end of the day, they have to review something else. There is so much poo poo out there, they'd rather focus on the creepy pasta elements, rather than the reason why the program is all hosed up BECAUSE THEY ARE SENTIENT AND THAT RAISES OTHER QUESTI- they gotta wrap it all neat like and do something else
Fargin Icehole fucked around with this message at 06:52 on Feb 25, 2018 |
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Feb 25, 2018 06:49
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Feb 25, 2018 17:05
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Phobophilia posted:https://medium.com/@lesmocon/doki-doki-literature-club-is-a-pointless-celebration-of-itself-538e733f4b14 no one cares about your dumb review blog
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Feb 25, 2018 20:43
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Backhand posted:For some reason paying people to review games always results in absolute poo poo-tier critiques. Most people who are smart enough to do an actual good critique are also smart enough to be employed in a more legitimate and remunerative capacity.
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Feb 25, 2018 22:07
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DreamShipWrecked posted:God game reviewers are useless. It's funny coming from the Giant Bomb thread to this one and seeing Waypoint being accused of not being WOKE enough. That article is more about talking about other VNs and games that pull similar stuff, so I don't even understand the overreaction to it.
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Feb 25, 2018 23:54
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Knee-jerk reactions to game reviewers is the standard these days. Everyone is kotaku-tier, nobody is even remotely decent, every single foible or slip-up is absolutely hammered into the ground as hard as possible. It's absurd.
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Feb 25, 2018 23:59
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they're not even reviews lmao
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Feb 26, 2018 00:08
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I don't read game reviews tbh
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Feb 26, 2018 00:25
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Same, nowadays I just look for gameplay videos without commentaries. I do enjoy reading reviews for TV shows and movies but after I've watched them, for things I've missed or for different perspectives and opinions. edit: Realizing, too late now, that we're talking about a Visual Novel, which is already a genre that's not easily represented by a video, plus the fact that it's one of those "wink wink nudge nudge there's a seeeeeecret inside haha" games.
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Feb 26, 2018 00:46
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I finished Doki Doki Rain Clouds this weekend, it was fine. It's really good at portraying depression because the author obviously has been through it. Like I said before I had to put the game down at one point because the experiences it was talking about got uncomfortably close to things I've dealt with. On the other hand, it's really bad at actually being Doki Doki Literature Club because it's a straight telling of the not-batshit off the wall stuff in DDLC. You get glitchy visions of Monika telling Sayori things throughout but besides that there's not really any more horror elements or unexpected insanity. Also, I'm a little annoyed at how people are discussing it honestly. In the end you get a prompt before Sayori is about to hang herself whether to do it or not. The choice doesn't actually matter and a bunch of people got "tricked" by this apparently. I keep getting the impression that the way people talk about DDLC in general they don't realize the reason the game is good in the first place is because all this crazy poo poo happens, and instead they want to treat it like it's just a cute game where things work out for everyone. I guess that's the same thing as when I see people wanting happy endings from movies/stories where the sad ending totally fits with themes of the work, cause people just want closure.
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Feb 28, 2018 19:53
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Ultima66 posted:Also, I'm a little annoyed at how people are discussing it honestly. In the end you get a prompt before Sayori is about to hang herself whether to do it or not. The choice doesn't actually matter and a bunch of people got "tricked" by this apparently. I keep getting the impression that the way people talk about DDLC in general they don't realize the reason the game is good in the first place is because all this crazy poo poo happens, and instead they want to treat it like it's just a cute game where things work out for everyone. I guess that's the same thing as when I see people wanting happy endings from movies/stories where the sad ending totally fits with themes of the work, cause people just want closure. I mentioned this before, but that "choice" is one of the best parts of Sayori's section imo. The whole thing is set up as the MC being That Guy, the caring but wholly unable to help person who thinks that he has The Answer to make all her issues go away. He even says "I know just what you need", as if headpats and kisses are going to make everything better. The reality of it is that the choice doesn't matter, because what he does doesn't matter. I can see why people felt tricked, but everyone I know that has that level of depression has heard that line a thousand times before, that if you just do X Y and Z then all your pain will go away. It's not only misguided, it's selfish to think that the person's entire life was just leading up to meeting You, the perfect You that is going to make their life perfect again. That's why I prefer the "I love you" option to the "let's be friends" one, since the "friends" one can be misconstrued as her being upset about being rejected. I absolutely agree with you that I wish that people had read more into that scene and didn't just go "wtf I gave her my dick why isn't she happy".
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Feb 28, 2018 20:18
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I think it's well done because neither option seems correct, because there is no good answer. He's also not "that guy" or anything, Sayori forces him into an impossible situation. But someone in the MC's position will blame themselves either way.
No Wave fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Feb 28, 2018 |
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Feb 28, 2018 20:49
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Man, there are a lot of Steamed Hams/DDLC mashups out there.
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Feb 28, 2018 20:59
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Gavok posted:Man, there are a lot of Steamed Hams/DDLC mashups out there. Just Monika? At this time of year, at this time of day, at this part of the game, localized entirely within my PC?
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Feb 28, 2018 22:01
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Gavok posted:Man, there are a lot of Steamed Hams/DDLC mashups out there. Post some good ones. There's more steamed hams memes than people on this planet at this point
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Feb 28, 2018 22:11
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If it doesn't feature Skinner already hanging in the kitchen when Chalmers arrives then I don't want to see it
U-DO Burger fucked around with this message at 02:24 on Mar 1, 2018 |
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Mar 1, 2018 00:52
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This is the only good one I've seen: MOD EDIT: Doki Spoilers within: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGwtDjYzaG8 Somebody fucked around with this message at 11:48 on Mar 1, 2018 |
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Mar 1, 2018 00:57
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