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Sunil Gulati has been in charge of the USSF for twelve years. In that time, the national men's hasn't really improved, the national women's team has remained really good but has had a bad 18 months or so, MLS underwent its rapid expansion but that really didn't have much to do with him, and the women's club game has stagnated because Gulati is obsessed with needing a league that has MUH NATIONAL FOOTPRINT. He's started to implement academy and league standards, but with respect to the league standards they appear to be completely optional and are enforced based on...who knows??? They've also changed slightly each of the last 3-4 years. I mean, he pulled the "Provisional Division 2" designation straight out of his rear end and handed it to both the NASL and the USL after the USL threatened to sue. So, he's been bringing in money for a dozen years and that's about it. Crazy Ted fucked around with this message at 23:08 on Oct 11, 2017 |
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Oct 11, 2017 23:05
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I think the problem for US Soccer in alot of ways can be summarized as this "We have been treading water and calling it progress for the last 12 years" I don't think MLS is the sham alot of people in this thread/forum think, but holy gently caress is the rest of the US Soccer structure a disaster and the leadership in Sunil has done a poor job of organizing that.
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Oct 11, 2017 23:12
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sportsgenius86 posted:There's not really enough of a passionate history of fandom for these clubs so if there wasn't parity, you'd probably end of up losing a fuckload of the organizations because they wouldn't be sustainable. That also doesn't exist elsewhere in CONCACAF though. My local team folded in 2000 because of two successive relegations and financial troubles. It happens all the time. Now I have a local team again because another team folded and some investors bought the rights it had to play in the first division. It's still a lovely small team with a couple hundred supporters at most. We have 12 first division clubs, out of those the 3 big ones have a rabid following of core supporters and then tons of gloryhunters attached to them. 4 other teams have loyal but small supporters that usually fill their stadiums. The remaining 5 teams play at home in front of a few people and are usually outnumbered by away fans when the big teams come to town. This is also the case in the rest of CA and in the Caribbean it must be way worse. Lower league clubs are almost always on the brink of bankruptcy, but if one dies there's another one eager to take it's place. This is normal. The problem for the US is travel would be prohibitely expensive for 90% of clubs if they set up a normal system. Maybe Brazil is the example to watch and learn from?
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Oct 11, 2017 23:14
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Maybe not, Tim Vickery always says Brazilian club football is dysfunctional as gently caress
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Oct 11, 2017 23:23
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skasion posted:Maybe not, Tim Vickery always says Brazilian club football is dysfunctional as gently caress It definitely is, but it always is everywhere to some extent. Not changing the system because the other options that do work are not perfect is a recipe for stagnation.
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Oct 11, 2017 23:26
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sportsgenius86 posted:There's not really enough of a passionate history of fandom for these clubs so if there wasn't parity, you'd probably end of up losing a fuckload of the organizations because they wouldn't be sustainable. What's worse is having no one give a poo poo about any of the clubs. Superteams draw casual fans and a national audience. That gets you a giant TV deal. Giant TV deal is how you make your league good.
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Oct 11, 2017 23:38
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if you win something in MLS, your salary cap is effectively reduced the next year, because any bonuses paid out are counted as next year's salary
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Oct 11, 2017 23:53
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Niwrad posted:What's worse is having no one give a poo poo about any of the clubs. You could make the greatest MLS team ever and it would still suck poo poo compared to a top flight Champions League team and anyone here who gives a gently caress would know that. Much better soccer is readily accessible here now to anyone who cares. There's not gonna be a ton of Americans crawling out of the woodwork because a D level league has a superteam. The Warriors being a superteam is good for the NBA because it's the best league in the world. If someone dominates a lovely college football conference all it does is make everyone want to see that team play a real team. Boise State being good didn't make a bunch of people get their dicks hard over a Colorado St/Air Force game.
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Oct 12, 2017 00:19
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That happens literally everywhere else too, American exceptionalism is part of your problem imo
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Oct 12, 2017 00:22
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Jack2142 posted:I think the problem for US Soccer in alot of ways can be summarized as this I'd say more like 22 years, as long as MLS has been around. But it is stable, apparently makes money, yet stagnating quality-wise. It puts out a poo poo product. But that stability part can't be overestimated. To my thinking this failure is exactly what is required now. Niwrad posted:What's worse is having no one give a poo poo about any of the clubs. This is true and was what the N.Y. Cosmos were about, except they never got that giant TV deal because everything else was out of control. What Gulati and MLS are terrified of is the everything else part of NASL's history. You mentioned in the other thread that the league needs an oil billionaire to dump 100 mil into a team. If I recall correctly, that's the asking price for a new franchise just to enter the league. So they've got some big money hosses already. The deal now is they need to release the clubs from total hierarchical control, imo, let them spend more cash on world class players. I think it's sustainable.
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Oct 12, 2017 00:25
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sportsgenius86 posted:You could make the greatest MLS team ever and it would still suck poo poo compared to a top flight Champions League team and anyone here who gives a gently caress would know that. Disagree. Soccer teams play intra-league tournaments all over their own continent, friendlies all over the world. The summer friendlies between MLS and big European clubs pack the big stadiums. It's one thing to watch the Bundesliga or Premiere League on TV, quite another to go see them irl.
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Oct 12, 2017 00:28
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Mr. Mambold posted:You mentioned in the other thread that the league needs an oil billionaire to dump 100 mil into a team. If I recall correctly, that's the asking price for a new franchise just to enter the league. So they've got some big money hosses already. The deal now is they need to release the clubs from total hierarchical control, imo, let them spend more cash on world class players. I think it's sustainable. Now? There's really no reason for the structure to exist anymore. It stopped needing to exist once the majority of teams had control over their own venues. It stopped needing to exist about ten years ago.
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Oct 12, 2017 00:30
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Everything is fine in US Soccer!
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Oct 12, 2017 00:59
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http://www.topdrawersoccer.com/the91stminute/2017/01/given-mlss-transfer-rules-offloading-giovinco-doesnt-make-sense/ About little tweaks around the edges: this poo poo in particular looks like something they should get rid of tomorrow. Turning 22-year-old UConn accounting majors into superstars sounds impossible, convincing someone like Pulisic to play for Philadelphia instead of BVB sounds impossible. But useless, conservative, going-nowhere organizations like DC, NE and Philly should be given every incentive possible to be in the market for players like Almiron, not having incentives taken away. Like, being a "selling club" would be way better than being what 90% of MLS is - but hey, you can't re-invest that money in players
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Oct 12, 2017 01:04
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sportsgenius86 posted:You could make the greatest MLS team ever and it would still suck poo poo compared to a top flight Champions League team and anyone here who gives a gently caress would know that. I think there is a desire to see better soccer here. When European teams tour they draw big crowds. TV ratings for matches overseas do pretty well considering their time slot. I don't know if one team dominating a league for long periods of time would be good for it, but I do think in the short-term it would draw some much needed attention to the league. Parity only matters if people care about your league. People don't care about the MLS. The hope is that a superteam draws interest into the league, gets people watching it on TV, and ushers in a better TV deal. This maybe puts pressure on other billionaire owners to field competitive teams. This draws more interest. Suddenly you have a league people care about.
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Oct 12, 2017 01:36
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Wait, MLS is on the TV?
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Oct 12, 2017 02:19
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Simone Poodoin posted:MLS is the second best league in CONCACAF behind Liga MX. That's not saying much, still garbage, but not as awful as every other one. absolutely this. wheres the like button for this post. this this this. central american sides have never looked better but American 'players' look semi professional
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Oct 12, 2017 03:18
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The Lalas stuff made the whole thing funnier. His rant about "spoiled millionaires" sounded dumb but then Howard followed it up by acting smug about qualifying and letting some Caribbean beer leaguer clown him a few nights later.
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Oct 12, 2017 03:43
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*ESPN journalist posts "If only our blac...err elite athletes played soccer" article for the 50th time*
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Oct 12, 2017 06:13
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at least benitez is turning yedlin into a decent player
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Oct 12, 2017 07:50
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You need promotion and relegation
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Oct 12, 2017 09:29
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MLS fans don't want that. Much better to not do anything than risk their team not be guaranteed a spot in the top flight. Full table is a non-starter too because reasons. Much better for the same lovely 8 teams to play each other 10 times over a season and then have a playoff.
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Oct 12, 2017 09:34
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I don't really understand why the U.S. hired, and then persisted so long with, Jurgen Klinsmann. Maybe my memory is off, but I remember iis tenure for the German National Team not being particularly successful. It looked kind of grim going into the 2006 World Cup, where they performed better than expected. That was third place, for a 3-time-winning NT, playing the World Cup in their own country. Hardly amazing. His assistant then took over the NT and has done better than Klinsmann. Then he went to Bayern Munich and he didn't do that great there either, he didn't even survive a full season. He was in Germany and Bayern from 2004-2006 to and then 2008-2009. That's not a very long time, he didn't win any major trophies and plenty of weird poo poo happened during his tenures. It always seemed like people had these ideas about his vision and his plans and it's like, sure, but I'm not sure why you think this guy's competent enough to execute these grand visions. He hasn't actually done anything.
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Oct 12, 2017 11:51
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Dirk Pitt posted:MLS fans don't want that. Much better to not do anything than risk their team not be guaranteed a spot in the top flight. Full table is a non-starter too because reasons. Much better for the same lovely 8 teams to play each other 10 times over a season and then have a playoff. What would a full table entail? A round robin? There are too many teams for that already unless you extended the season. You'd need contraction or pro/rel. I think the more relevant changes would be to ending league ownership of teams and loosening up salary cap rules. Salary caps aren't inherent in US leagues, MLB lacks one and does fine. I agree that preferences for US players should be ditched too. There's enough incentive to stay in MLS from the comfort of playing at home. Don't give players financial incentive to avoid Europe for goodness sake.
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Oct 12, 2017 11:59
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shirts and skins posted:What would a full table entail? A round robin? There are too many teams for that already unless you extended the season. You'd need contraction or pro/rel. Yes, exactly. "They hosed it up too bad" isn't a reason to avoid fixing something.
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Oct 12, 2017 12:16
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even Scotland would piss concacaf qualifying 😂
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Oct 12, 2017 12:39
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Manc Hill posted:even Scotland would piss concacaf qualifying 😂 Imagine if LeBron James was Scottish......
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Oct 12, 2017 13:11
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The solution to MLS problems is easy: get rid of all the rules making it like other American sports leagues and instead make it like every other football league. Promotion and relegation, no conferences, no salary cap, no league ownership, no playoffs, no draft system. The American league system is an archaic dinosaur that only works in other US sports because there are no other good leagues for those sports in the entire world, so fans of the sport are forced to watch the dumb end product and the cracks in the system are papered over because they have a monopoly on good players. In a sport where the rest of the world clowns the US, those US-style sports things just hold everyone back. You need teams that are motivated to do well because otherwise they get relegated, you need teams investing in developing youth rather than drafting poo poo 22-year-old college players, you need teams playing the other good teams in the league instead of the ones that happen to be geographically close to them, you need owners who want to invest in their clubs and aren't prevented from doing so by rules that say they can't spend more than X amount paying players, you need teams to not be willing to settle for 8th place because that still gets them in the playoffs, you need good players ending up on the same team because it's the ambitious one with the investing owner rather than sending the best player to the worst team in the league, and so on and so on. American sports structures are garbage and stupid and MLS has exposed this for all the world to see because there are actually other football leagues on the planet that people care about.
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Oct 12, 2017 14:09
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Pedro De Heredia posted:I don't really understand why the U.S. hired, and then persisted so long with, Jurgen Klinsmann. Klinsmann has this weird effect on Americans and I've never gotten it either. If you bother to actually read about his past managerial experiences, it's, at best, mediocre. Despite all of that being available through a Google search, Hicks & Gillett tried to bring the guy to Liverpool to replace Rafa Benitez back in 2008. Gulati of the USSF was chasing Klinsmann since 2006 as well. His trophies as a player and his association with successful things like the German national team and Bayern somehow rub off on him more than it does on others. I guess if you like soccer, but don't really love and follow it, he must seem amazing. I wonder what he's like in person. Real charmer? I guess he's good looking, but that usually doesn't sway rich American sports figures that much... track day bro! posted:Imagine if LeBron James was Scottish...... Extra muscle fueled by Munchy Boxes.
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Oct 12, 2017 14:11
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vyelkin posted:American sports structures are garbage and stupid and MLS has exposed this for all the world to see because there are actually other football leagues on the planet that people care about. The funniest and most frustrating part of all of this is how MLS insists that this is the way a sports league MUST be run in order for Americans to accept it, even though the popularity of European leagues among Americans (i.e. much more popular than MLS) has proven that wrong for years. They are going so far out of their way to avoid the product MLS is selling.
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Oct 12, 2017 14:17
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Brony Car posted:His trophies as a player and his association with successful things like the German national team and Bayern somehow rub off on him more than it does on others. This happens everywhere. Look at players like Mustafi, who's fine, but by no means world class, who go for absurd fees because they were on the world cup winning team. Happens every World Cup cycle, look at garbagemen like Zaccardo who squeezed a whole decade of high paying gigs from scoring an own goal for the United States in a WC winning year. There was a gigantic markup for Spanish players after Barcelona's dominance that ultimately led to the 2008/2010 Spanish trophies. Some were great, most weren't. A good board/league/whatever can see past this, but many can't. This happens in every sport I follow, I'm sure it does in every other one as well.
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Oct 12, 2017 14:21
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wicka posted:The funniest and most frustrating part of all of this is how MLS insists that this is the way a sports league MUST be run in order for Americans to accept it, even though the popularity of European leagues among Americans (i.e. much more popular than MLS) has proven that wrong for years. They are going so far out of their way to avoid the product MLS is selling. Oh hey, I agree with wicka again.  Drafts, Playoffs, Divisions all make zero sense in building a quality domestic team Dirk Pitt fucked around with this message at 14:29 on Oct 12, 2017 |
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Oct 12, 2017 14:26
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Of course I am curious, should the USMNT be treated as a MLS All Star squad? I live in Sweden now, and there is no bias towards Allsvenskan players on their team, otherwise they would suck.
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Oct 12, 2017 14:30
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Jose posted:at least benitez is turning yedlin into a decent player Allardyce did this Allardyce for USMNT manager
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Oct 12, 2017 14:33
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Dirk Pitt posted:Oh hey, I agree with wicka again. I am right about two things: MLS sucks and Ferrari sucks.
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Oct 12, 2017 14:41
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Playoffs are fine, many other leagues do them because otherwise there wouldn’t be enough interest to fill up stadiums. Most Central American leagues do two seasons per year, each with playoffs, because that’s what works to keep attendance up. Divisions could be fine too, Brazil uses them for the state championships. They do state championships for half the year and overall national championship the other half. This works because Brazil is huge. Drafts, salary caps, league ownership, no promotion/relegation and league ownership, all of that poo poo should go because it actively hinders player development. In my opinion if the US had the will to change this, they shouldn’t start by trying to copy Germany right away. Look at what kinda works on lovely leagues first, when you get that then strive for the system that work in good leagues.
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Oct 12, 2017 14:59
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We shouldn't have league playoffs, we should just actually promote and emphasize the US Open Cup. One thing Americans actually do love is giant knockout tournaments where big teams have to play tiny underdogs.Feels Villeneuve posted:If the MLS is actually set on 30 teams I actually do think a western/eastern league could work as long as both leagues are single table and they don't play each other until the final, like how baseball used to work before Interleague. I actually love this idea too, especially since each league could be 20 teams and you could cover much more of the country at the top level. wicka fucked around with this message at 15:08 on Oct 12, 2017 |
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Oct 12, 2017 15:02
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If the MLS is actually set on 30 teams I actually do think a western/eastern league could work as long as both leagues are single table and they don't play each other until the final, like how baseball used to work before Interleague.
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Oct 12, 2017 15:06
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so here's a legitimate question: what's the most successful example of a european-style (pro/rel, single table, etc) league in a country where football isn't the most popular sport? J-League?
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Oct 12, 2017 15:10
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vyelkin posted:The solution to MLS problems is easy: get rid of all the rules making it like other American sports leagues and instead make it like every other football league. Promotion and relegation, no conferences, no salary cap, no league ownership, no playoffs, no draft system. This is retarded nonsense. Get rid of the entire American sports structure because hurr durr. The rest of the world have working relegation systems because they have 100+ years of supported clubs from the grass roots up. American sports have never done that. The closest thing to that is, duh the oldest organized sport in America, ⚾, and they have never considered it. A more reasonable hope would be that  bans handegg and those athaleats then migrate to footy...he said straight faced.
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Oct 12, 2017 15:46
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