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Alexeythegreat posted:The US league/grasssroots "system" is only good at the sports that only US plays, bar basketball It only works for those sports because they have zero competition.
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Oct 11, 2017 21:50
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blue footed boobie posted:Am I allowed to say the USMNT is bad ITT? I apologize. You were in the right. Please post it as much as you’d like.
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Oct 11, 2017 22:13
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vyelkin posted:So let me get this straight, Klinsmann told American players to leave MLS and go play elsewhere to develop and people got mad, and then they fired him and put someone in charge who only picked MLS players and then they failed to qualify for the World Cup out of the second-worst continent? Is this what happened? Not really.
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Oct 11, 2017 22:45
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Gyasi Zardes is maybe the worst player I've ever seen in a USA jersey. I'd rather have Eddie Johnson.
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Oct 11, 2017 22:55
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Crazy Ted posted:Well in some respects he's not wrong because the US has sent teams to the knockout stages of the World Cup with less talent and a way worse development setup than what they have now. Well yeah, we did what outmatched American teams always do and won games on hustle and grit alone. We started sucking the second we began to think we might be actually talented.
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Oct 11, 2017 23:04
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shirts and skins posted:What would a full table entail? A round robin? There are too many teams for that already unless you extended the season. You'd need contraction or pro/rel. Yes, exactly. "They hosed it up too bad" isn't a reason to avoid fixing something.
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Oct 12, 2017 12:16
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vyelkin posted:American sports structures are garbage and stupid and MLS has exposed this for all the world to see because there are actually other football leagues on the planet that people care about. The funniest and most frustrating part of all of this is how MLS insists that this is the way a sports league MUST be run in order for Americans to accept it, even though the popularity of European leagues among Americans (i.e. much more popular than MLS) has proven that wrong for years. They are going so far out of their way to avoid the product MLS is selling.
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Oct 12, 2017 14:17
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Dirk Pitt posted:Oh hey, I agree with wicka again. I am right about two things: MLS sucks and Ferrari sucks.
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Oct 12, 2017 14:41
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We shouldn't have league playoffs, we should just actually promote and emphasize the US Open Cup. One thing Americans actually do love is giant knockout tournaments where big teams have to play tiny underdogs.Feels Villeneuve posted:If the MLS is actually set on 30 teams I actually do think a western/eastern league could work as long as both leagues are single table and they don't play each other until the final, like how baseball used to work before Interleague. I actually love this idea too, especially since each league could be 20 teams and you could cover much more of the country at the top level. wicka fucked around with this message at 15:08 on Oct 12, 2017 |
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Oct 12, 2017 15:02
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Mr. Mambold posted:This is retarded nonsense. Get rid of the entire American sports structure because hurr durr No, get rid of it because it is provably not working for MLS, and it only works it closed systems that do not have to compete with other leagues.
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Oct 12, 2017 15:52
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Mr. Mambold posted:It's only 22 years old league, wicka. Check the other U.S. professional leagues and how they did. Relegation is not the cure-all, and realistically, if MLS requires $100 mil buy-in, it'll never happen. American sports are far more socialistic and egalitarian via labor unions than anything in Europe. And the NBA does compete with Euro leagues for players- talent wise, there's no contest and no point in intra-league play oh god I'm arguing with wicka. You're not arguing with wicka, you are arguing with reality. MLS is not working and it's obvious for all to see. And the comparisons you're making are quite clearly inaccurate, on literally every single possible count. There's an MLS-specific thread if you'd like to peddle your ignorance to people who care. Mr. Mambold posted:Relegation is not the cure-all, and realistically, if MLS requires $100 mil buy-in, it'll never happen. Yeah, MLS SHOULDN'T REQUIRE A $100M BUY-IN, loving duh. Simone Poodoin posted:Panama went from minnows to World Cup in 20 years or so. Reminder that they used to be a baseball country where nobody cared about football. They didn’t even have a pro league until 1988 and it was only in 1996 that they actually had a FIFA recognized league. As I said before, American exceptionalism is part of the problem, people refuse to look at what has worked for other countries because “America is sooo different”. I printed off a thousand copies of this post and wallpapered my home with it.
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Oct 12, 2017 16:14
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I sincerely apologize for immediately hammering this poor thread with a bunch of VERY on-brand posts, but for a brief moment it was thrilling to be posting about all the obviously dumb things about US soccer with people who understood.
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Oct 12, 2017 16:27
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Jack2142 posted:I still don't really understand how adding Pro/Rel makes things any different, it just means that instead of MLS playing in half empty 20,000 seater soccer stadiums they play in half empty High School football stadiums. Like I understand the concept in England and Spain and Germany etc. because there are actual legitimate second division teams that are worth a drat... there's like 3 in the entire US that aren't half assed. Unless the argument is that Pro/Rel would make those half rear end teams spend more money to chase promotion? I still don't really understand why people insist on pretending that any argument in favor of pro/rel includes "let's implement pro/rel literally tomorrow and see what happens." It's a long-term goal that requires a large amount of work, the bulk of which would entail funding and support the second division until the day comes that those clubs are stable enough to be promotion candidates. Simply saying "in the future, second division teams can be directly promoted to MLS" would go a loooooooooong way towards them establishing dedicated fanbases, which is really the #1 obstacle to them being financially stable at present. Most cities don't give a gently caress about their NASL and USL teams for the same reason that AAA clubs don't sell out 40,000 seat stadiums: no one cares about permanent minor league teams.
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Oct 12, 2017 19:21
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Pro/rel is good because it is the path towards stabilizing the lower division(s), which is how you end up with a country covered in professional soccer clubs of all shapes and sizes, and that's also how you end up with a country covered in  competent youth academies
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Oct 12, 2017 20:43
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Weaponized Cum posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yv4SpjMinlQ The man's right, shut it all down
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Oct 12, 2017 21:57
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G-Hawk posted:that isn't happening, though It's quite literally exactly what's happening.
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Oct 12, 2017 22:12
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greazeball posted:One aspect of US sports that works against pro/rel and youth development in particular is the complete and total lack of loyalty owners and franchises show to a city or area. Team's not making money? Just move it somewhere else! gently caress these hicks, I'll get a new town to build us a stadium and poo poo and just go there. The owners are scum, like in all sports, and there's no reason for them to invest in training facilities beyond what they need for the first team because they'll be out of there as soon as a better deal comes along. Something's got to happen in parallel to the league, where the academies are separate from the clubs and have a permanent base to start reaching kids and youth coaches. This only happens because all these leagues are closed systems in which there's no way for a new city to get involved without moving an existing franchise. It's automatically solved if pro/rel is implemented.
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Oct 12, 2017 22:16
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G-Hawk posted:MLS has dramatically improved over the last 10 years much less the last 20 on pretty much every front. It has a ton of work still yes but its made major progress For those of you taking notes at home, this is an A+ example of MLS apologists being willfully ignorant and intentionally misreading and misunderstanding what you're saying. The fact that MLS is stagnating and barely growing now has nothing to do with the fact that it has improved over the course of 10-20 years. Ratings are flat, attendance is flat, level of play isn't improving, etc. Again, this just isn't a disputable fact, yet here we are. greazeball posted:Not at all, look at Wimbledon. As is this. The one go-to example of a team being moved outside of the US doesn't prove a drat thing. blue footed boobie posted:Isn't promotion and relegation literally impossible without blowing up the MLS completely? No current owner would ever go for it. Not impossible, but it'd be very difficult to do. And regardless, MLS should probably be blown up completely. The irony, of course, is that the current MLS clubs would be worth orders of magnitudes more in the long run, even if they got relegated, in a properly run system. mackintosh posted:There's nothing wrong with the way your league is structured now. The issue isn't promotion and relegation. Your problems stem from non-existent youth development. As my good friend Mr. Villeneuve has already pointed out, the lack of a stable and healthy lower division is exactly what precludes proper youth academies from being built. Even if those things somehow come about through MLS, that's still like 24? academies. England has hundreds, in a far smaller area.
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Oct 13, 2017 00:27
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FartingBedpost posted:I’m a huge Pro/Reg guy, as evidenced by the above posts, but I think some of you guys criticizing that idea are missing that we know what the real problem is, too. E: I missed the point because I'm a too-angry retard. wicka fucked around with this message at 00:49 on Oct 13, 2017 |
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Oct 13, 2017 00:45
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FartingBedpost posted:It’s all good, I worded it like a dude from the 47th lowest-educated State. I'm from Indiana
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Oct 13, 2017 01:18
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G-Hawk posted:Ratings are higher mostly because they're on network tv this year (but still suck), and attendance is pretty definitely up and has been rising pretty consistently. Quality of play is harder to judge but it is up imo. I guess I don't know what you want to be different in MLS in less than a 10 year time span that has any possibility of happening. Is this a bit?
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Oct 13, 2017 02:14
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G-Hawk posted:i dunno you still haven't answered my questions Yes, I have. You still haven’t responded to what anyone is actually saying.
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Oct 13, 2017 11:00
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Omar plays for Pachuca.
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Oct 13, 2017 18:01
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RideTheSpiral posted:Yeah but this is stupid and doesn't encourage dynamic and creative resource management which is allegedly an American concept Of course it's stupid. Unfortunately the stupid man in charge of MLS is a former NFL exec and doesn't know any better. oliwan posted:Football in a normal country: It's €10 because professional clubs are subsidizing the cost. Youth soccer is not run by professional clubs in the US (for the most part).
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Oct 13, 2017 18:57
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It would cost more than  a month per kid just to reserve a field.
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Oct 13, 2017 19:09
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oliwan posted:Oh yeah the referee thing is another thing that I don't get. Why do youth and amateur teams need "certified" referees? I played in a Sunday league in Holland for like 20 years and the referee was almost always just some dude from the hosting team or a dad in the youth games Parents are awful here
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Oct 13, 2017 19:51
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African AIDS cum posted:This is complete bullshit. They pay because they think they are getting better coaching for their kids. And because being on the "best" club is a status thing. It has nothing to do with race. Ugh, I forgot this was your thing
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Oct 14, 2017 21:24
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Guys, the entire US has the same demographic makeup as Southern California, and racism is not real. Just let this one slide.
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Oct 14, 2017 21:44
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African AIDS cum posted:This kind of LF tier hyperpolitical whiny posting is extremely played out in 2017, let's stick to concrete facts I think you meant to post this in some poor woman’s Twitter DMs
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Oct 15, 2017 01:45
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Waroduce posted:I think all of the discussion regarding the MLS just totally misses the point. The issue with producing good/elite soccer talent is that it has to start early, and the conversation needs to move away from either getting a result AND playing for fun. There needs to be a focus on developing fundamental skills at an early age that just doesn't happen in the United States. I'm not sure where you think we've missed the point. These are all problems that are solved when professional clubs start running free-to-play academies and developing players properly, rather then all development being in the hands of private clubs and schools/colleges.
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Oct 16, 2017 20:20
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RideTheSpiral posted:is america good at any team sports? Basketball
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Oct 16, 2017 20:43
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Lmao, perfect timing: https://twitter.com/grantwahl/status/920119976488570881
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Oct 17, 2017 12:16
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big crush on Chad OMG posted:*Furiously googles age of consent* Aaaaand I’m not the kind that likes to tell yoooou just what you want me to
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Nov 13, 2017 21:53
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Mods, please update the thread title to include Italy.
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Nov 13, 2017 22:42
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The whole point of soccer in the US is to feed money to MLS’s owners, this isn’t super surprising.
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Nov 15, 2017 14:15
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sportsgenius86 posted:Hope Solo is running for US Soccer President The real  part is that she’d easily be better than the likes of Cordeiro or Carter.
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Dec 8, 2017 17:12
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