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I think a charitable reading of this show is that it's about the futility and nihilism of violence. The warriors are almost universally broken people, and no one gets anything they want, not even satisfying action scenes.
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Dec 6, 2017 07:32
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| # ? Apr 27, 2024 19:12 |
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I honestly didn't know how to react to this episode but I think that nails it.
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Dec 6, 2017 07:49
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Tiger kind of got what she wanted. Not too shocked that Ox is not too bad a guy.
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Dec 6, 2017 08:45
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I am curious how Rat is going to beat the unbeatable Genius of Slaughter, considering one is a sleepy boy who's been off-screen for a long while now and the other is a brooding untouchable badass. At this point, it's super obvious it's gonna happen but no idea how. I guess there's also still Usagi's sliced and diced corpse to rekill and Sharyu's off.... somewhere... to resolve as well.
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Dec 6, 2017 09:55
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In the original Zodiac tale, Rat rides on the back of Ox and jumps off to become 1st place. He's a trickster who rides the coattails of other, stronger participants. In this context, that'd be something like Ox and Rabbit killing each other and then Rat wins by default without ever fighting. Speaking of which, since Rabbit is technically dead now, doesn't that means he can't win the tournament anymore? Even if he's controlling his body parts to continue attacking, he's still dead.
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Dec 6, 2017 17:24
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Dead men can't be affected by the gem poison, he's a goddamn genius
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Dec 6, 2017 17:27
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Clarste posted:In the original Zodiac tale, Rat rides on the back of Ox and jumps off to become 1st place. He's a trickster who rides the coattails of other, stronger participants. In this context, that'd be something like Ox and Rabbit killing each other and then Rat wins by default without ever fighting. Snake was still in the running after his death.
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Dec 6, 2017 17:27
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Clarste posted:In the original Zodiac tale, Rat rides on the back of Ox and jumps off to become 1st place. He's a trickster who rides the coattails of other, stronger participants. In this context, that'd be something like Ox and Rabbit killing each other and then Rat wins by default without ever fighting. This is my vote for the most likely ending cause why shake things up? Either Rabbit is not the "real" Rabbit or yeah, he's considered dead. Considering we've not seen Rat since him basically leading Snake to kill Horse, I'm betting he jumps whoever survives between RabbitParts and Ox.
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Dec 6, 2017 17:31
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Clarste posted:In the original Zodiac tale, Rat rides on the back of Ox and jumps off to become 1st place. He's a trickster who rides the coattails of other, stronger participants. In this context, that'd be something like Ox and Rabbit killing each other and then Rat wins by default without ever fighting.
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Dec 6, 2017 17:32
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I don't know, if his body could still speak or communicate somehow, and it got all the gems, couldn't it still win? I think the gems were the win condition, not being the last survivor; Monkey had a plan to keep people alive and still win, after all. Perhaps he wanted his body to wish himself back to life after killing the others?
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Dec 6, 2017 18:09
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Yeah, I don't think Rabbit can be regarded as a rational actor, here.
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Dec 6, 2017 18:11
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if everyone except rabbit dies, i don't know what the taisen staff would do. rabbit can only give simple orders to his corpses so yeah i don't see his corpse redeeming the wish or anything but technically he would be the winner?
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Dec 6, 2017 19:32
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Just caught up with the last two episodes. So... uh, yeah. Holy poo poo, Rabbit. 
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Dec 6, 2017 19:47
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dogsicle posted:if everyone except rabbit dies, i don't know what the taisen staff would do. rabbit can only give simple orders to his corpses so yeah i don't see his corpse redeeming the wish or anything but technically he would be the winner? Get the Gems, kill everyone, wish me back seems like a fairly simple set of orders. The only issue would be if Rabbit's corpse can't talk. (given that Monkey's Corpse has made some sounds, they may be able to if given explicit orders)
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Dec 6, 2017 22:04
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That episode was irredeemably awful and I have lost all respect for this show.
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Dec 7, 2017 01:36
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ViggyNash posted:That episode was irredeemably awful and I have lost all respect for this show. I agree that it was bad, it is pretty silly for limbs to be able to move around like this and the Tiger/Ox connection seemed kind of sudden given their prior interactions, but I at least watched it all the way through. I was on my phone for at least half of the Snake/Dragon two parter and don't feel like I missed a (worthwhile) thing. It's better, IMO, to be bad than boring. It is a shame how far downhill this show has gone though. I remember during the first three or so it was up there as one of the shows I was most excited for each week and most interested in. I guess killing all of the good characters in the first half kind of damns the second.
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Dec 7, 2017 04:13
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ox, tiger, and rat are the good characters. but also rip anime-only boar, anime-only chicken, and monkey.
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Dec 7, 2017 04:22
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ViggyNash posted:That episode was irredeemably awful and I have lost all respect for this show. Yeah. One thing I hated in particular was Ox's monologue in the flashback, which went on for-loving-ever. I still like the OP though, probably my favorite OPs of the season for both music and visuals.
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Dec 7, 2017 10:57
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From what I understand the original was a short story, so it probably wasn't meant to be stretched so much. Based on those information paragraphs that have been posted, I'm guessing we're getting an episode per chapter, maybe? But yeah, while I liked Rabbit's plan here personally, particularly his head trying to bite its way up Ox's sword, there was way too much talking this time. I'm not sure if the next two episodes will be much better on this front either; the backstory stuff basically fills in the space between real fight things, and with this few characters left and how the show doesn't seem to want to do grand, climactic battles and whatnot, they're also probably going to be mostly flashback. Hopefully they're at least more action-y flashback rather than almost entirely talking this this one.
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Dec 7, 2017 11:17
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The Ox and Tiger thing became weird. They play up this grudge and it turns into... that. It feels like they put in the grudge because the short story had it, but the short never revealed what it was so they had to think up their own reason. I think I'll just interpret it as "overreacted to not being remembered because she was drunk as gently caress" and leave it at that. Hopefully we get to see more of monkey's op-as-gently caress powers/skills before inevitably getting burned to cinders, diced et . The poo poo she can do is pretty drat varied.
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Dec 7, 2017 13:05
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Roland Jones posted:From what I understand the original was a short story, so it probably wasn't meant to be stretched so much. Based on those information paragraphs that have been posted, I'm guessing we're getting an episode per chapter, maybe? But yeah, while I liked Rabbit's plan here personally, particularly his head trying to bite its way up Ox's sword, there was way too much talking this time. Yeah it has been one ep per chapter with a different pov each chapter, so it's understandable why they'd try to imitate that part of the book's style. The actual events in the fights especially in the second half go down really quick, so they have to do something to buy time to fill a full series so they chose to greatly expand upon the backstories. Which gets rough at this part of the story because it can really interrupt the flow (Dragon's ep being the worst offender of this by a mile). I really wish they could have made a movie instead because it'd be a great way to avoid some of those problems.
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Dec 7, 2017 13:58
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Mindblast posted:The Ox and Tiger thing became weird. They play up this grudge and it turns into... that. It feels like they put in the grudge because the short story had it, but the short never revealed what it was so they had to think up their own reason. Nah the reason in the anime was exactly what it was in the book.
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Dec 7, 2017 14:00
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I feel that, as a whole, the adaptation would've worked better either as a 2 hour movie like Srice suggested, or a 5-episode arc/ova released all at once, kinda like how Kokoro Connect's Michi Random arc was released or the previous adaptations Nisio's own Nekomonogatari Black (which was released exactly a day after Kokoro Connect's aforementioned episodes aired), Hanamonogatari, Tsukimonogatari or Owarimonogatari (for real this time ... sike!).
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Dec 7, 2017 15:55
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It would take some careful thought on series composition but yeah I think a short ova series would have worked much better. But that feels really difficult given how pointless the whole show has been so far. There might be some grand twist that re-contextualizes the narrative thus far but I have no idea what that could be.
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Dec 7, 2017 16:28
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ViggyNash posted:It would take some careful thought on series composition but yeah I think a short ova series would have worked much better. But that feels really difficult given how pointless the whole show has been so far. There might be some grand twist that re-contextualizes the narrative thus far but I have no idea what that could be. If what's been posted in this thread is true and the flashbacks are literally based on blurbs that are barely an actual page in length (which goon Allarion has been helpfully posting once the relevant episode has aired, thanks for that buddy, you're a true gentleman and a scholar  ) and not actually written in during the actual story of the original novel, the expansion of the flashbacks in order to stretch this out was the biggest double-edged sword. Like sure, it made you understand/outright sympathize/utterly loathe some of the characters far more easily and made them more memorable as a result, but some of them didn't need to go on for as long as they did.For example, I think that, from a story but not necessarily from an execution standpoint, my favorite flashbacks are the ones centered around Monkey and Dragon. Monkey's was heartbreaking but still offered a glimmer of hope, and Dragon's was nihilistic and downright incendiary wrt the Zodiac War's Foundation, but also not completely heartless. Still, Hosoda and Murai could've worked to make the flashbacks shorter. In my opinion, the best result would've been five(or six) 30-to-40 minute OVA's, something like:
e: Some grammar corrections. Wark Say fucked around with this message at 18:42 on Dec 7, 2017 |
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Dec 7, 2017 18:39
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That last episode was an egregious cost savings episode. You could barely tell when it was spoken dialogue or an internal monologue, not to mention the ridiculous amount of internal monologue stretched out to fill runtime. I started feeling bad for Tiger's VA, doing an admirable professional job in the face of such nonsense.
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Dec 7, 2017 19:44
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Anyways  
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Dec 7, 2017 19:54
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Tiger and ox are probably the only 2 whose backstory is actually part of the main story, in case anyone was wondering about the tiger ox past since that’s not covered in the blurbs
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Dec 7, 2017 20:04
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Oh, that actually explains why Sheep underestimated her so badly.
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Dec 7, 2017 20:40
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Well that was an incredible anti-climax. I've rarely seen a show get so crappy so fast. 
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Dec 12, 2017 20:18
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Ox was close to figuring out in the beginning
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Dec 12, 2017 20:40
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Huh. I was not expecting a whole episode after the contest ended. Can they really make an entire episode out of that? I mean, I guess that was a full chapter in the novel, given that each episode seems to cover a chapter based on the stuff that's been posted here, but in a short story a chapter can also be pretty short.jng2058 posted:Well that was an incredible anti-climax. I've rarely seen a show get so crappy so fast. I'm thinking that this might not have been the best choice for a full anime series. More of an OVA or two perhaps. Stretching it out so much probably did it a disservice, at least for the parts where, due to how fast things actually happened in-universe, the only way to prolong it was internal monologues, flashbacks, and discussions that really shouldn't have taken so much time given what was happening at the same time. Like, pretty much everything in this and the last episode, and some stuff from the episode before that really, could have easily been condensed into a single episode.
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Dec 12, 2017 21:01
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Roland Jones posted:From what I understand the original was a short story, so it probably wasn't meant to be stretched so much. Based on those information paragraphs that have been posted, I'm guessing we're getting an episode per chapter, maybe? But yeah, while I liked Rabbit's plan here personally, particularly his head trying to bite its way up Ox's sword, there was way too much talking this time. The original was a one-shot manga (untranslated at the moment, at least not officially) that takes place after the Zodiac War and is about the victor struggling to choose a wish. All the other fighters are only introduced with no more than a single panel each. Though this came out first, it *completely* spoils the ending of the book. The novel (full length) was written after that, with one chapter to each fighter, and one page each for their backstories. I haven't been watching the anime but it sounds like it's following the same plot. The manga (ongoing) follows the novel very closely so far, with the addition of an observer character, and some expanding upon the characters' backgrounds but not in an overly lengthy way. Modus Pwnens fucked around with this message at 21:15 on Dec 12, 2017 |
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Dec 12, 2017 21:10
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Modus Pwnens posted:The original was a one-shot manga (untranslated at the moment, at least not officially) that takes place after the Zodiac War and is about the victors struggling to choose a wish. All the other fighters are only introduced with no more than a single panel each. Though this came out first, it *completely* spoils the ending of the book. Oh, really? Huh, I was misinformed then. Interesting. Well, thank you for correcting me then.
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Dec 12, 2017 21:12
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Roland Jones posted:Huh. I was not expecting a whole episode after the contest ended. Can they really make an entire episode out of that? I mean, I guess that was a full chapter in the novel, given that each episode seems to cover a chapter based on the stuff that's been posted here, but in a short story a chapter can also be pretty short. If they throw in the original short manga's story, that would easily fill an episode, otherwise.... Yeah. That's a lot to stretch out into an entire episode.
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Dec 12, 2017 21:13
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I guess in addition to the aftermath, they still have rat's backstory and... maybe Ox's? I'm not sure if the second tiger flashback counted as his backstory or a continuation of her's (or maybe both)
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Dec 12, 2017 21:17
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The only thing about Ox we got in his own episode is that his "power" was... just being really good with a sword I guess. Also he totally remembered Tiger, but didn't realise that she was the girl he saved which made Tiger's reason for chasing after him somehow even more Dumb Anime Misunderstanding than it already was. Usagi turning himself, and the rest of the corpses, into a giant Flesh Golem was really cool, and potentially creepy, but it was... just sort of a thing that happened and now it's been cut twice and needs to take Five Minutes to reform oh noooo Nezumi winning via Old Timer (...presumably) was sorta using a thing established before, but it was such an underwhelming anticlimax in practice that I can't help but feel like that was the point. But that's not necessarily good.
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Dec 12, 2017 21:34
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Dec 12, 2017 21:36
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Hope at least half of next episode is just Ox eating at various restaurants
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Dec 12, 2017 21:37
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| # ? Apr 27, 2024 19:12 |
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I actually really liked the concept for Rat's power, but yeah, as an episode that was kind of a letdown. Really surprised we are getting another one, you could have basically ended the show on this episode and left the wish open. Maybe the next episode is just a collection of potential wishes as the decision is being made?
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Dec 12, 2017 22:43
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