Wrestling Fraudcasts: OJ was a wrestling fan. Please don't ask how I know this stuff.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > The Hammer House: Stinger Splash Zone > Wrestling Fraudcasts: OJ was a wrestling fan. Please don't ask how I know this stuff.

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PaybackJack: May 21, 2003; You'll hit your head and say: 'Boy, how stupid could I have been. A moron could've figured this out. I must be a real dimwit. A pathetic nimnal. A wretched idiotic excuse for a human being for not having figured these simple puzzles out in the first place...As usual, you've been a real pantload!

Solomonster isn't bad. I can really only listen to him for recaps though. Something about the not having a co-host bothers me because a lot of the time is just him tossing ideas out into the void.

He's very accurate and detailed, which is pretty nice as he doesn't usually miss things or skip over details.

# ¿ Oct 30, 2017 14:42

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# ¿ May 12, 2024 01:05

PaybackJack: May 21, 2003; You'll hit your head and say: 'Boy, how stupid could I have been. A moron could've figured this out. I must be a real dimwit. A pathetic nimnal. A wretched idiotic excuse for a human being for not having figured these simple puzzles out in the first place...As usual, you've been a real pantload!

dsriggs posted:

I didn't see this coming

https://twitter.com/iamjohnpollock/status/925028879403593728

Wow, that's really shocking. I found a lot of stuff on LAW intolerable but Pollock was great.

# ¿ Oct 30, 2017 17:36

PaybackJack: May 21, 2003; You'll hit your head and say: 'Boy, how stupid could I have been. A moron could've figured this out. I must be a real dimwit. A pathetic nimnal. A wretched idiotic excuse for a human being for not having figured these simple puzzles out in the first place...As usual, you've been a real pantload!

TV Zombie posted:

Can I ask why you don't watch wrestling?

I don't watch the full show but catch the highlights for RAW. Aside from that Mania and whatever good NJPW shows are the only shows I watch in full...At least now that Lucha Underground is done.

# ¿ Nov 3, 2017 06:42

PaybackJack: May 21, 2003; You'll hit your head and say: 'Boy, how stupid could I have been. A moron could've figured this out. I must be a real dimwit. A pathetic nimnal. A wretched idiotic excuse for a human being for not having figured these simple puzzles out in the first place...As usual, you've been a real pantload!

Late posting but that was some classic steamroller at the beginning of the episode

"How's it going everybody...Another UFC in the Bag...GSP middleweight champion...Epic comeback after being gashed open...Chokes Bisping unconscious...Being called the greatest UFC of all time, Dave what did you think?"

"Actually I want to start with Joe Diago... :killdozer:

# ¿ Nov 6, 2017 16:03

PaybackJack: May 21, 2003; You'll hit your head and say: 'Boy, how stupid could I have been. A moron could've figured this out. I must be a real dimwit. A pathetic nimnal. A wretched idiotic excuse for a human being for not having figured these simple puzzles out in the first place...As usual, you've been a real pantload!

17~ years ago there was a prowrestling site with a guy on it named something like Dan 'The WCW Mark' something. He wrote a fake article about Bret Hart getting screwed throughout his day; which if you read it in Bret's cadence was hilarious.

It was things like "Woke late this morning because my alarm didn't go off. drat clock screwed me. Paper boy screwed me; threw my paper in the lawn where it got soaked by the sprinklers. Thought my coffee maker screwed me by not turning on...turns out it was my wife who screwed me because it was her turn to set it last night."

It wasn't comedy gold all the way through, but it was pretty darn funny in parts.

# ¿ Nov 10, 2017 18:52

PaybackJack: May 21, 2003; You'll hit your head and say: 'Boy, how stupid could I have been. A moron could've figured this out. I must be a real dimwit. A pathetic nimnal. A wretched idiotic excuse for a human being for not having figured these simple puzzles out in the first place...As usual, you've been a real pantload!

Feels Villeneuve posted:

Taker was actually one of HHH's better opponents, HHH was always great at milking near-falls which you really need in a Taker match.

He got people to legit believe that he beat Taker with a tombstone at Wrestlemania of all places; on paper that spot never should have worked.

# ¿ Nov 23, 2017 22:25

PaybackJack: May 21, 2003; You'll hit your head and say: 'Boy, how stupid could I have been. A moron could've figured this out. I must be a real dimwit. A pathetic nimnal. A wretched idiotic excuse for a human being for not having figured these simple puzzles out in the first place...As usual, you've been a real pantload!

rare Magic card l00k posted:

Obviously Goldberg is getting in.

If he doesn't this year he's probably never getting in. I know Dave is kind of salty about him getting in, but I think he's more likely to not dwell on it too much after his last run.

# ¿ Nov 25, 2017 14:20

PaybackJack: May 21, 2003; You'll hit your head and say: 'Boy, how stupid could I have been. A moron could've figured this out. I must be a real dimwit. A pathetic nimnal. A wretched idiotic excuse for a human being for not having figured these simple puzzles out in the first place...As usual, you've been a real pantload!

Gold Sexy Body posted:

Would 100% listen to a podcast that was nothing but inane Dave Meltzer stories. He used to do it more often but now only tells one when it's REALLY exciting like his brother selling a worked punch or his son getting embarrassed in Hot Topic.

Actually that's a point, what the gently caress is Dave Meltzer buying in Hot Topic lol

I really thought for a moment that the Big Ryck story was going to end with Ryck legit punching Dave's brother and telling him to tell Dave to stop burying him. Big Ryck is probably a pretty chill guy and wouldn't get worked up over someone saying he was a bad worker.

# ¿ Nov 30, 2017 01:22

PaybackJack: May 21, 2003; You'll hit your head and say: 'Boy, how stupid could I have been. A moron could've figured this out. I must be a real dimwit. A pathetic nimnal. A wretched idiotic excuse for a human being for not having figured these simple puzzles out in the first place...As usual, you've been a real pantload!

Feels Villeneuve posted:

Edge stinks and Dave's hilarious attempts to influence the voting body to get him in are great.

Agreed. That he'd want Edge to be in and not want someone like Goldberg is his clear bias for work rate over drawing power. Sting was way better and a bigger draw than Edge too.

# ¿ Nov 30, 2017 16:50

PaybackJack: May 21, 2003; You'll hit your head and say: 'Boy, how stupid could I have been. A moron could've figured this out. I must be a real dimwit. A pathetic nimnal. A wretched idiotic excuse for a human being for not having figured these simple puzzles out in the first place...As usual, you've been a real pantload!

Beef Jerky Robot posted:

Well if you're trying to do a "legit" HoF you should probably stick to a non subjective metric

Workrate is pretty subjective though. And ratings usually only look at the guy that's on top and not the hourly breakdowns. Drawing power is easier because you can look at house show numbers to see who actually draws crowds but major attendance draws are way harder since shows tend to be way more stacked now.

# ¿ Dec 5, 2017 11:08

PaybackJack: May 21, 2003; You'll hit your head and say: 'Boy, how stupid could I have been. A moron could've figured this out. I must be a real dimwit. A pathetic nimnal. A wretched idiotic excuse for a human being for not having figured these simple puzzles out in the first place...As usual, you've been a real pantload!

Jerusalem posted:

Bryan's flustered,"WESTERN CANADA!?!" response to Dave re: Jinder Mahal on the latest WOR was incredible.

That was great. Also the responses to what their first live title matches were.

# ¿ Dec 7, 2017 22:36

PaybackJack: May 21, 2003; You'll hit your head and say: 'Boy, how stupid could I have been. A moron could've figured this out. I must be a real dimwit. A pathetic nimnal. A wretched idiotic excuse for a human being for not having figured these simple puzzles out in the first place...As usual, you've been a real pantload!

Another good day of Dave dating chat. This time remembering how often he's forgotten to talk to a woman for 7 days and had a conversation with one interrupted by dorks.

# ¿ Dec 19, 2017 16:40

PaybackJack: May 21, 2003; You'll hit your head and say: 'Boy, how stupid could I have been. A moron could've figured this out. I must be a real dimwit. A pathetic nimnal. A wretched idiotic excuse for a human being for not having figured these simple puzzles out in the first place...As usual, you've been a real pantload!

Probably the best bump Nash ever took too.

# ¿ Jan 3, 2018 07:55

PaybackJack: May 21, 2003; You'll hit your head and say: 'Boy, how stupid could I have been. A moron could've figured this out. I must be a real dimwit. A pathetic nimnal. A wretched idiotic excuse for a human being for not having figured these simple puzzles out in the first place...As usual, you've been a real pantload!

On the Talk is Jericho show with Omega they mention a guy that does 8-bit recreations of the match. Anyone got a link to that?

# ¿ Jan 11, 2018 19:07

PaybackJack: May 21, 2003; You'll hit your head and say: 'Boy, how stupid could I have been. A moron could've figured this out. I must be a real dimwit. A pathetic nimnal. A wretched idiotic excuse for a human being for not having figured these simple puzzles out in the first place...As usual, you've been a real pantload!

Lone Goat posted:

@wrestlingarcade on twitter?

Thanks.

# ¿ Jan 11, 2018 19:29

PaybackJack: May 21, 2003; You'll hit your head and say: 'Boy, how stupid could I have been. A moron could've figured this out. I must be a real dimwit. A pathetic nimnal. A wretched idiotic excuse for a human being for not having figured these simple puzzles out in the first place...As usual, you've been a real pantload!

Incessant Excess posted:

This weeks Retro Nitro was really bad, not funny bad either, just incredibly boring.

Jericho vs Booker T was a good match and I loved the last two matches with Lex vs Rey and Goldberg vs Bigelow vs Hall.

You are correct though that by and large nothing happened on this show. Bischoff getting shaved was such a minor thing.

Next week though we get the greatest promo of Bret Hart's career.

and don't forget that within three months Hogan will be a face :wtc:

PaybackJack fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Jan 15, 2018

# ¿ Jan 15, 2018 20:02

PaybackJack: May 21, 2003; You'll hit your head and say: 'Boy, how stupid could I have been. A moron could've figured this out. I must be a real dimwit. A pathetic nimnal. A wretched idiotic excuse for a human being for not having figured these simple puzzles out in the first place...As usual, you've been a real pantload!

Incessant Excess posted:

Was there a reason why Booker T vs Jericho happened? It seemed like a random match that was about nothing but I may have missed a setup by the commentary. Luger vs Rey was fine and kinda made me want to see Rey vs. some big dude, until Nash had to come out for the interference. I didn't care for 90% of the main event but Goldberg spearing both dudes at the same time was fuckin cool.

While of course there was lame interference in both matches, Nash took a great bump for his dropkick and I always liked seeing Nash and Luger work against smaller guys. Yeah, obviously in hindsight it would have been great to see Rey/Konnan go over in the feud.

Main event same thing except I loved watching Hall get thrown around, dude was so great at taking a beating. Goldberg was pretty well booked in the match, with the double spear being the obvious great spot.

Incessant Excess posted:

Eric Bischoff vs David Flair was maybe the worst match I have ever seen. I'd have to rewatch Jenna vs Sharmell to know for sure but I'm in no rush there.

It's bad, but it's two non-wrestlers and it goes all of 2 minutes. I like the finish because it's so good it's bad watching David use and reveal the gimmick. David Flair is so obviously trying his hardest while still managing to be a black hole of charisma. Also I laughed at

Tony: "He had a roll of coins in his hand."
Larry: "Keep Heenan out of there, he'll grab it."

PaybackJack fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Jan 15, 2018

# ¿ Jan 15, 2018 20:32

PaybackJack: May 21, 2003; You'll hit your head and say: 'Boy, how stupid could I have been. A moron could've figured this out. I must be a real dimwit. A pathetic nimnal. A wretched idiotic excuse for a human being for not having figured these simple puzzles out in the first place...As usual, you've been a real pantload!

Lid posted:

https://twitter.com/bryanalvarez/status/953387468090298368

Hyperbole. It's bad but it only lasts for 2 minutes and has a worthwhile post match pay off. Jenna/Sharmell is like 6-7 minutes long bell to bell and there is no pay off.

PaybackJack fucked around with this message at 13:06 on Jan 17, 2018

# ¿ Jan 17, 2018 12:59

PaybackJack: May 21, 2003; You'll hit your head and say: 'Boy, how stupid could I have been. A moron could've figured this out. I must be a real dimwit. A pathetic nimnal. A wretched idiotic excuse for a human being for not having figured these simple puzzles out in the first place...As usual, you've been a real pantload!

After reading Dave's write up on the Enzo case, my first thought is that the Law and Order SVU writers got a gimme on this one.

# ¿ Jan 25, 2018 13:20

PaybackJack: May 21, 2003; You'll hit your head and say: 'Boy, how stupid could I have been. A moron could've figured this out. I must be a real dimwit. A pathetic nimnal. A wretched idiotic excuse for a human being for not having figured these simple puzzles out in the first place...As usual, you've been a real pantload!

Malcolm Excellent posted:

That is pretty funny.

"I thought he was trying to get his name out there."

# ¿ Jan 31, 2018 15:11

PaybackJack: May 21, 2003; You'll hit your head and say: 'Boy, how stupid could I have been. A moron could've figured this out. I must be a real dimwit. A pathetic nimnal. A wretched idiotic excuse for a human being for not having figured these simple puzzles out in the first place...As usual, you've been a real pantload!

I would buy one of Dave's prowrestling calendars but I'd want them to work with Wrestlecrap to have the worst of prowrestling on each day.

# ¿ Feb 13, 2018 10:58

PaybackJack: May 21, 2003; You'll hit your head and say: 'Boy, how stupid could I have been. A moron could've figured this out. I must be a real dimwit. A pathetic nimnal. A wretched idiotic excuse for a human being for not having figured these simple puzzles out in the first place...As usual, you've been a real pantload!

Karmine posted:

I honestly think those are two separate, equally viable calendars, but that might just be me.

They totally are, however I'm not really interested in a calendar that tells me when the Funks first teamed in Japan so much as I am with one that tells me when Mike Rotunda became a boating enthusiast.

# ¿ Feb 13, 2018 12:54

PaybackJack: May 21, 2003; You'll hit your head and say: 'Boy, how stupid could I have been. A moron could've figured this out. I must be a real dimwit. A pathetic nimnal. A wretched idiotic excuse for a human being for not having figured these simple puzzles out in the first place...As usual, you've been a real pantload!

I'm sad how much they undersold Hogan's mustache showing through the ski mask. It was classic goofy wrestling angle. Of course you'd think they shouldn't really be putting comedy into gang horribly assaulting a man in a field but there you go.

# ¿ Feb 14, 2018 14:32

PaybackJack: May 21, 2003; You'll hit your head and say: 'Boy, how stupid could I have been. A moron could've figured this out. I must be a real dimwit. A pathetic nimnal. A wretched idiotic excuse for a human being for not having figured these simple puzzles out in the first place...As usual, you've been a real pantload!

Maybe Dave just needs a mental brand split to recognize two best friends.

# ¿ Feb 23, 2018 10:29

PaybackJack: May 21, 2003; You'll hit your head and say: 'Boy, how stupid could I have been. A moron could've figured this out. I must be a real dimwit. A pathetic nimnal. A wretched idiotic excuse for a human being for not having figured these simple puzzles out in the first place...As usual, you've been a real pantload!

Probably going to be some Lucha Underground spoilers on the show today.

# ¿ Feb 27, 2018 10:38

PaybackJack: May 21, 2003; You'll hit your head and say: 'Boy, how stupid could I have been. A moron could've figured this out. I must be a real dimwit. A pathetic nimnal. A wretched idiotic excuse for a human being for not having figured these simple puzzles out in the first place...As usual, you've been a real pantload!

MassRafTer posted:

When Dave wondered if he'd mailed things to a stage name I thought he meant him using a stage name. Very disappointed what he actually meant.

I had the same thought.

His real name ISN'T Dave Meltzer!? :monocle:

# ¿ Mar 10, 2018 17:12

PaybackJack: May 21, 2003; You'll hit your head and say: 'Boy, how stupid could I have been. A moron could've figured this out. I must be a real dimwit. A pathetic nimnal. A wretched idiotic excuse for a human being for not having figured these simple puzzles out in the first place...As usual, you've been a real pantload!

SalTheBard posted:

Wow. This is one of those matches that 17 year old me would've gone crazy watching. I think I was fully on team WWF at this point

April, despite being WCW going down is a month where they realized they actually had a lot of stars and started booking multiple matches with big stars throughout the show. Shocking, I know.

# ¿ Apr 4, 2018 18:09

PaybackJack: May 21, 2003; You'll hit your head and say: 'Boy, how stupid could I have been. A moron could've figured this out. I must be a real dimwit. A pathetic nimnal. A wretched idiotic excuse for a human being for not having figured these simple puzzles out in the first place...As usual, you've been a real pantload!

From the live mailbag:

"How big is Batista's contract with Marvel Studios."

Fantastic.

# ¿ Apr 6, 2018 22:56

PaybackJack: May 21, 2003; You'll hit your head and say: 'Boy, how stupid could I have been. A moron could've figured this out. I must be a real dimwit. A pathetic nimnal. A wretched idiotic excuse for a human being for not having figured these simple puzzles out in the first place...As usual, you've been a real pantload!

Junpei Hyde posted:

who books ROH

Similar to how all the NXT shows are titled "Takeover", ROH should title all their shows "Streaming Problems".

# ¿ Apr 13, 2018 15:44

PaybackJack: May 21, 2003; You'll hit your head and say: 'Boy, how stupid could I have been. A moron could've figured this out. I must be a real dimwit. A pathetic nimnal. A wretched idiotic excuse for a human being for not having figured these simple puzzles out in the first place...As usual, you've been a real pantload!

It's definitely too bad Bryan doesn't watch movies because hearing him and Vince recap classic films would be amazing.

# ¿ Apr 15, 2018 06:17

PaybackJack: May 21, 2003; You'll hit your head and say: 'Boy, how stupid could I have been. A moron could've figured this out. I must be a real dimwit. A pathetic nimnal. A wretched idiotic excuse for a human being for not having figured these simple puzzles out in the first place...As usual, you've been a real pantload!

Benne posted:

We're well into '99 on the B&V retro shows and there's been an alarming amount of "Nitro was actually pretty good" this year

Did ... did Stockholm Syndrome finally take them

(I guess it helps that Raw is total poo poo at this time but still)

April 99 was a pretty good month. A lot of the big stars were back, Hogan is gone(though admittedly he was pretty good in March), and there's a lot of ridiculous poo poo that just happens to be fun too(all the hardcore stuff). I was rewatching along with them and ended up binging the whole month because it was so enjoyable. I'm don't remember why because it has turned out to be not very good, but when I was a kid loved the tag title scene with Raven/Saturn, Benoit/Malenko and Kidman/Rey.

# ¿ Apr 18, 2018 09:34

PaybackJack: May 21, 2003; You'll hit your head and say: 'Boy, how stupid could I have been. A moron could've figured this out. I must be a real dimwit. A pathetic nimnal. A wretched idiotic excuse for a human being for not having figured these simple puzzles out in the first place...As usual, you've been a real pantload!

No booker could have saved(nor truly killed) WCW because they died due to not keeping their TV deal. Yeah, they lost of a ton of money in 2000 but their ratings were still in the low 2s and if they hadn't lost their TV they could have been fine with that number for most networks. Like, USA would have been more than happy to pick them up if they could guarantee a 1.5 every week. They killed their houseshow business but I think their attendance was still higher than it was back in like 94-95. Obviously house show business was bad compared to WWE, but WWE's house show attendance dropped like 50% in 2001 as well so...

# ¿ Apr 20, 2018 20:44

PaybackJack: May 21, 2003; You'll hit your head and say: 'Boy, how stupid could I have been. A moron could've figured this out. I must be a real dimwit. A pathetic nimnal. A wretched idiotic excuse for a human being for not having figured these simple puzzles out in the first place...As usual, you've been a real pantload!

exploded mummy posted:

There was about an 18 month period in between Bischoff getting sent gone and WCW losing TV.

He was brought back in-between that period, he came back after Russo bombed and Sullivan's taking over resulted in Benoit & Co. leaving. He wasn't as involved in the booking by the end of 2000, but the it doesn't really matter because the point I'm making is that although the company died and had horrible losses in 2000; the best booking in the World wasn't going to save them from losing their TV on TNT.

The fact that they got sold so quickly and for such a cheap price shows you how little the people at the top cared about the company. Can you imagine how much Netflix or Amazon would pay just for the tape library in today's market? They didn't even consider keeping it on air for a few more months so try and shop it around. Nobody there wanted anything to do with wrestling, that was Turner's thing that nobody wanted to be associated with and they dumped it because they didn't understand it.

It's fun to think about who could have booked a good program if Russo hadn't been brought in and Bischoff was still ousted, but asking who could have 'saved' the company by booking is an irrational question.

# ¿ Apr 20, 2018 22:26

PaybackJack: May 21, 2003; You'll hit your head and say: 'Boy, how stupid could I have been. A moron could've figured this out. I must be a real dimwit. A pathetic nimnal. A wretched idiotic excuse for a human being for not having figured these simple puzzles out in the first place...As usual, you've been a real pantload!

MassRafTer posted:

The company was losing $500,000 per week (and maybe more) in 2001. The sale to Fusient had been announced 2.5 months prior to the cancellation. If you think they dumped it because they didn't want anything to do with wrestling not the company lost 60 million in 2000 with no legitimate buyers other than the WWF, you are nuts.

When one of Fusient's backers saw how bad the books were (they'd gotten worse in Q4 2000) he backed out. So they completely changed their offer to a completely backloaded deal. Why would Time Warner want that deal on a company losing that much? They'd never get it. To keep it open and shop it around would cost them millions. Literally millions of dollars. The company kept costing them millions after they shut it down, but less millions because at least they'd gotten out from under some of the contracts and the production costs.

They could have kept the tape library on air and just ran 'best of's. Yeah the company was losing money but they didn't have to kill it completely; however they did so because the people who took over saw it as something of Turner vanity project and got rid of it.

# ¿ Apr 20, 2018 22:43

PaybackJack: May 21, 2003; You'll hit your head and say: 'Boy, how stupid could I have been. A moron could've figured this out. I must be a real dimwit. A pathetic nimnal. A wretched idiotic excuse for a human being for not having figured these simple puzzles out in the first place...As usual, you've been a real pantload!

exploded mummy posted:

How exactly how fast do you think they got sold?

The possibility of it being sold for being an utter money it had been reported on in Summer of 2000. It was basically an inevitability by Fall, and it was agreed in principle by Winter.

I'm not sure how this is refuting my point. The people that took over post AOL merger in February wanted it gone and started looking to dump it quickly. That they held on for a year is something, but that they didn't try and run it with much less overhead is another story. If they wanted to they could have just bought out the contracts and tried to get what they could out of it but they didn't want wrestling and didn't want it on their TV either. The whole AOL-TW merger was a clusterfuck and WCW was just another wasted opportunity in that whole debacle.

exploded mummy posted:

Loooooooooooool

You managed to find a way for 2001 WCW to lose even more money.

If you're going to pay out these giant contracts and lose money on monday nights; I'll bet you'd make more off reairing tape in place of the weekend show than you would just selling it for $4.2 million. Not to mention continuing to be able to sell merchandise.

# ¿ Apr 20, 2018 22:58

PaybackJack: May 21, 2003; You'll hit your head and say: 'Boy, how stupid could I have been. A moron could've figured this out. I must be a real dimwit. A pathetic nimnal. A wretched idiotic excuse for a human being for not having figured these simple puzzles out in the first place...As usual, you've been a real pantload!

Never said they should air a best of show on Monday night in primetime. They could have thrown it out on a Sunday afternoon and you'd make money since it's not costing you anything to produce and the ad rates are alright crap. You'd probably get a ratings boost every weekend that WWE ran a ppv too. WCW Saturday Night ran comfortably for a long time before they turned it into a recap show and killed it.

# ¿ Apr 20, 2018 23:25

PaybackJack: May 21, 2003; You'll hit your head and say: 'Boy, how stupid could I have been. A moron could've figured this out. I must be a real dimwit. A pathetic nimnal. A wretched idiotic excuse for a human being for not having figured these simple puzzles out in the first place...As usual, you've been a real pantload!

Dusty was around at that point too. It's pretty hard imagining anyone coming in there and not either running into problems in with the head office(like Heyman would have), running into problems with top talent(like Sullivan did), or doing both(like what would probably happen if Cornette had a break in his contract and left instead of Russo).

# ¿ Apr 21, 2018 00:25

PaybackJack: May 21, 2003; You'll hit your head and say: 'Boy, how stupid could I have been. A moron could've figured this out. I must be a real dimwit. A pathetic nimnal. A wretched idiotic excuse for a human being for not having figured these simple puzzles out in the first place...As usual, you've been a real pantload!

VJeff posted:

Not accusing you of this PaybackJack 'cause I don't think this is what you're doing but I see people use "but AOL Time Warner " as a blanket to shield Russo and Bischoff and the rest of the chumps at the top of WCW from blame so often, it's kind of incredible. Like 20 years on, they can't admit that the company died because the people in charge ran it into the ground and killed most of the revenue streams.

I'm definitely not arguing that. They made a ton of bad booking decisions, but even making the right ones weren't going to turn the company around. However, was the IP worth more than Vince bought it for and could they have made money with it if they kept it; yes.

It's funny because in a couple weeks we're going to get a Retro Review for an episode of Nitro where Bischoff does the same "I'm at fault but not really because blah blah blah" promo that he's been doing for 20 years now but some people out there really believe him. Nevermind that while he's cutting this promo as a semi-shoot, he's also talking about how Kevin Nash is kayfabe a deserving world champion. Then in a couple months the belt is back on Hogan and we're back to the status quo.

MassRafTer posted:

Show your math.

WCW Saturday Night's ratings were plummeting near the end, so the changed formats, moved it and killed it. Was that because those execs had an anti-wrestling bias too, even though a year earlier they'd been going wild in the Georgia Dome when WCW was a crown jewel of the Turner empire? Were those guys all just fake getting tons of comps to be seen at these events? Why didn't they just air tapes in its place? Because they'd make the company less money than the Andy Griffith show and Matlock, that's why. These are two top rated cable stations, even their afternoon reruns are more profitable than some WCW tapes.

And again, Vince wasn't buying the company without the tape library. So under your plan the company could lose out on that money and make less money with lower rated unprofitable programming. I love it.

You're right in that I'm making an assumption the fans who quit watching when the company changed direction would still tune in on Sunday to rewatch classic wrestling matches. You may very well be correct and the company was so toxic by that point that those fans were gone forever.

PaybackJack fucked around with this message at 01:07 on Apr 21, 2018

# ¿ Apr 21, 2018 00:54

PaybackJack: May 21, 2003; You'll hit your head and say: 'Boy, how stupid could I have been. A moron could've figured this out. I must be a real dimwit. A pathetic nimnal. A wretched idiotic excuse for a human being for not having figured these simple puzzles out in the first place...As usual, you've been a real pantload!

MassRafTer posted:

The IP was barely worth anything in 2001. If they held onto it for 17 years would it have been worth more? A bit but Netflix cheaps out on old content so it's not worth as much as you think. WWE gave them several million dollars and a better chance to get out from under some of the contracts that would have cost them further millions. The only reason they got out from under some of those guaranteed deals with small buy outs is Vince needed guys for the planned WCW brand and then for the Invasion. It didn't even look like he was going to get Booker and DDP at first!

Under your plan they end up losing more money to hold onto an IP for over a decade in hopes a non existent technology emerges that will make companies pay a lot of money for back content even though no company other than WWE has ever paid big money to rerun pro wrestling.

You're reading too much into what I was saying regarding Netflix.

Here's a question for you though. You say the IP is worth nothing but what was Fusient spending $50 million dollars on? If they knew the contracts weren't worth buying out because they were costing the company a ton of money, and the IP wasn't worth anything either, what was that money going towards?

Let me simplify my argument to three points

1) The new execs, led by Kellner, didn't like pro wrestling because it was wrestling and also because it was Turner's thing, not theirs.
2) Fusient would have bought the company if there was TV.
3) WWE bought WCW for less money than it was worth, but AOLTW could have kept it and made more money off it than they got from the sale if they'd cared to try.

Maybe there's been some new information I missed because I'm not admittedly the prowrestling historian that you are, but from the retro observer it certainly sounds like Fusient would have bought the company if they'd had the TV deal. Why was there no TV deal because

March 26, 2001 Wrestling Observer posted:

In his first major act as CEO of Turner Broadcasting, Jamie Kellner, who has always disliked pro wrestling, made the decision to cancel all pro wrestling programming. In doing so, it nearly ended negotiations that had been rocky, with Fusient Media Ventura, to purchase the company, a sale that was prematurely announced in January by Fusient President Brian Bedol, WCW President Brad Siegel and Eric Bischoff, so as to make it public literally hours before the official consummation of the AOL/Time Warner merger.

The Observer does make a good case though that even if a weekend show drew good ratings, the recent stigma of prowrestling would have killed any advertising so I'll admit that a best of show probably wouldn't have made more money than whatever else they put in that slot.

# ¿ Apr 21, 2018 02:47

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# ¿ May 12, 2024 01:05

PaybackJack: May 21, 2003; You'll hit your head and say: 'Boy, how stupid could I have been. A moron could've figured this out. I must be a real dimwit. A pathetic nimnal. A wretched idiotic excuse for a human being for not having figured these simple puzzles out in the first place...As usual, you've been a real pantload!

MassRafTer posted:

1. Sure and it was also a massive money loser and had been a very popular division just 2 years earlier when everyone and their mother wanted to be at the Dome shows.

2. No they wouldn't have. The deal fell apart. Their backing fell apart and was going to fall apart sooner since Thunder had already been secretly cancelled (pre Kelner.) They new Fusient offer involved a bunch of stock and deferred payments and was not worth the paper it was printed on because the company did not have the funds to keep WCW afloat at that point.

Thunder was already cancelled. This was going to throw yet another wrench in Fusient's plans. But at the end of the day their financing fell apart in January and the new backing crew was not going to make this deal happen. That's why Time Warner got sick of waiting. They wanted out and who can blame them the company was a dumpster fire and costing them millions as this sale dragged out. They'd lost a minimum of 5 million dollars since the Fusient sale was announced and the sale still was not close to finalized. Why would you wait around when you can stop the losses and get some small amount of money back?

It's nice and easy to blame Kelner but the plans to shut this company down predated him taking over and canning it. They had decided to stop booking venues and had decided to can Thunder and take Nitro off TNT as part of TNT's rebranding.

3. How was it less money than it was worth? A tape library was value-less to everyone but WWE at the time. Yes it was worth more than that to WWE, but no one else was interested in it or had the backing to do anything with it. Putting out discount DVD sets wasn't going to be worth a 7-8 MM sale price for some outlet at the infancy of the DVD boom. Streaming didn't exist. It was worthless as a TV product.

I'm going by the Observer reports and according to those, the deal only fell apart when the TV got canceled. It does mention that a cancellation was planned previous but it was a planned move to TBD. It also notes that Fuscient was trying to shop the program to Fox immediately after the cancellation was announced but couldn't make the deal in time. I don't see why they'd try to shop the product to Fox if they didn't want to purchase the company by that point.

If you got some more information to share, than what's printed in the Observer then by all means share it.

# ¿ Apr 21, 2018 03:51

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > The Hammer House: Stinger Splash Zone > Wrestling Fraudcasts: OJ was a wrestling fan. Please don't ask how I know this stuff.

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