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Thermopyle
Jul 1, 2003

...the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. —Bertrand Russell

mystes posted:

You repeatedly use the term "ARC" to refer to running android apps on Chromebooks, but AFAIK the current system is not based on ARC which was the previous failed attempt to get Android apps to run on Chromebooks using a completely different approach.

(ARC was a chrome browser app using NACL or something to emulate android, wheres the current approach I think involved extending the kernel to support Android apis so they could be run directly in a chroot environment.)

I think this is correct.

A lot of current info on this subject confusingly continues to talk about ARC, but I think that's just people continuing to use an outdated term to refer to the new thing.

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Thermopyle
Jul 1, 2003

...the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. —Bertrand Russell

mystes posted:

Also, are people really using chromebooks outside of education in 2017?

Yes.

I mean I don't have any statistics at hand, but I see them all the time, so at least some people are using them.

Thermopyle
Jul 1, 2003

...the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. —Bertrand Russell

mystes posted:

My original goal was basically just to do word processing, so your use case makes sense LionArcher.

I had sort of forgotten about the exact details, but I just remembered that my main problem was that I was mostly using the chromebook without internet access (I was trying to use it during my commute on public transportation). This caused additional problems that I hadn't anticipated:
1) I didn't have the option of using web sites instead of apps for some things I needed (mainly a dictionary program)
2) There turned out to be lots of additional limitations in Google Docs when used offline. I think even spellchecking didn't work, which was really frustrating? I don't know if that is still the case.
3) Syncing was more finicky than I was hoping. It took some time to actually sync when I got my laptop online again, and it wasn't obvious that it had completed, which was frustrating when I was trying to switch between using my desktop at home and the chromebook. This might also be better now.

I think if you always have internet access when you're using the chromebook it will be a much smoother experience.

Also, a lot of it effectively comes down to how tolerable Google Docs is for your uses. I ended up realizing that I was wasting time because of minor formatting issues when converting to word files.

Edit: Also, at the time, trying to use ARC for android apps was an absolutely terrible experience (really slow to start apps and you couldn't even resize them; they all were one of two fixed sizes based on phone or tablet dimensions). I can imagine that the new system combined with termux covers a lot more use cases.

It still seems like you have to spend a lot of working getting back to where you would start on another operating system if your requirements are at all complicated, though.

Office 365 online is a thing that is good. Better than Google Docs in some ways, worse in others.

I always have internet so I don't know the answer to this, but I wonder how Office's offline features compare to Googles.

Thermopyle
Jul 1, 2003

...the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. —Bertrand Russell

Mental Hospitality posted:

The 14in metal Acer Chromebook I bought over a year ago might be the best sub-$300 gadget I've ever bought. Wonderfully sturdy, 10+ hour battery, and great IPS display. Complaints are minor; I wish it had a backlit keyboard and the CPU is just this side of adequate (but for a passively cooled SoC it really isn't too terrible). It is an excellent couch machine.

And now I can install Play Store apps... that's so frickin cool.

Chromebook manufacturers seem to hate backlit keyboards.

Thermopyle
Jul 1, 2003

...the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. —Bertrand Russell

What does Android 3.0 have to do with anything?

Thermopyle
Jul 1, 2003

...the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. —Bertrand Russell

Let us know if mkbhd's criticism of the pen is accurate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ja_GMU7-sjs

Thermopyle fucked around with this message at 16:59 on Nov 10, 2017

Thermopyle
Jul 1, 2003

...the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. —Bertrand Russell

I dunno, but I'm also fed up with its uselessness.

Thermopyle
Jul 1, 2003

...the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. —Bertrand Russell

MrNemo posted:

Ok this is probably going to seem like a dumb question first of but important. Work occasionally requires me going to China (like once a year or so). Are Chromebooks totally inoperable there? Are there VPN options with them? It's rare enough it's not necessarily a deal breaker but couldn't find anything immediately online.

Secondly, my main use for something like this would be basic email, browsing, etc on the move. Previously I've used a tablet for this which is great for media and sooner browsing but I nearly always need to bring my laptop if I'll be doing any serious typing or even lots of emailing. I'm very envious of a friend's Macbook Air; are there similar lightweight, good quality Chromebook options?

You can use a L2TP VPN with a Chromebook.

On bleeding edge Canary versions of the OS, you can even tunnel your traffic through any of the Android VPN apps like Strongswan (assuming of course your Chromebook runs Android apps). That'll make it to more main line versions soon enough.

Thermopyle
Jul 1, 2003

...the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. —Bertrand Russell

I dunno, he seems to be providing useful information...

A thread just circle jerkin over how great chromebooks are doesn't seem too useful.

Thermopyle
Jul 1, 2003

...the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. —Bertrand Russell

silence_kit posted:

That’s a very misleading portrait of my posts in this thread.

A guy came into the thread asking about Chromebooks and said that he wanted to buy the same Chromebook that I own and was planning on heavily using the Android functionality. I warned him that the Android implementation on the ASUS C302 is not ‘rough’ or ‘unpolished’—it is dysfunctional. And recommended that he buy a tablet or cellphone if he wants to run Android apps.

I appreciate your posts, but...

silence_kit posted:

Chromebooks still are sort of half-baked consumer products and are really only compelling due to their lower prices when compared to Windows laptops and MacBooks.

Doesn't exactly convey the feeling that ChromeOS is fine except for the Android experience not being the best.

On the other hand, this...

Atomizer posted:

and there is ambiguity where necessary (i.e. notice that there's no claim that 100% of Android apps work perfectly.)

is just weird. Not claiming that 100% of Android apps work perfectly is not the same thing as asserting there is ambiguity, and the claim from the OP that " pretty much all mainstream apps that you’d want to run on your CB work as expected" doesn't seem to be accurate unless you consider video streaming applications to be not-mainstream. And I would think that's pretty weird to think.

Thermopyle
Jul 1, 2003

...the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. —Bertrand Russell

Atomizer posted:

The issue is with using Android apps to play cached video, which is not streaming.

Oh come on. I give up with you.

Thermopyle
Jul 1, 2003

...the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. —Bertrand Russell

silence_kit posted:

If you want to make a car analogy, this is not it.

A better car analogy would be that you bought a particular Ford SUV because it was rated to tow your boat, but when you try to tow your boat, you find that it really struggles and does not have enough power to tow it. You make a post on a car forum about your finding, and the Car Forum Version of Atomizer replies:

'why do you have the unrealistic expectation that your SUV should be able to tow your boat? the primary function of an automobile is to transport people, and it seems to be doing that well, so I don't see an issue. a secondary function of your SUV is towing, basically what that means is that it is not important and it doesn't matter if it works or not. oh and also, Explore new territory in the rugged yet versatile Ford® Explorer available in five adventurous models--Explorer, XLT, Limited, Platinum and Sport. Updated style and greater choice for the 2018 Ford Explorer means five new wheel options, a Safe and Smart Package, and available SYNC® Connect with 4G modem and Wi-Fi hotspot that connects up to 10 devices. . . .'

Oh, drat, this is a good post. I can't wait to see the response.

My guess is that it's something like this:

Yes, it's not good that the specific apps you want to use do not work correctly, however there are specific apps that do not work on every type of device, ChromeOS or not. Does that make all app-running devices half-baked consumer devices? I don't think so.

Thermopyle
Jul 1, 2003

...the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. —Bertrand Russell

Atomizer posted:

I can tell neither of you are car guys, because as I illustrated above that car analogy is neither "good" nor relevant to my original one.

Except the post I made was agreeing with the post you just made, so....maybe you guys need to take a break from the thread or something? You're talking past each other.

Thermopyle
Jul 1, 2003

...the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. —Bertrand Russell

Atomizer posted:

Sorry, I interpreted your post as making fun of my own posting (because it's weird to praise his bad analogy and then write my own reply for me.)

It's because his analogy wasn't as bad as you're saying it is, but my point was the same as yours.

Thermopyle
Jul 1, 2003

...the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. —Bertrand Russell

Toshimo posted:

I haven't met a tablet I've been happy with and I've got a desktop-replacement level laptop already, so I thought maybe I'd give one of these a try on the cheap to see if it will do the mundane stuff I'd like in a more portable form.

Stuff I'd like to do in no particular order:
  • Read lovely internet forums
  • Read comics
  • Read PDFs
  • Listen to mp3s
  • Watch a Youtube
  • Watch terrible Twitch streams

I could live without the Twitch streams, but the rest would be nice.

Will something like this do my use case? https://baltimore.craigslist.org/sys/d/asus-chromebook-c201pa-laptop/6519406614.html

If not, what do I really need to look for to make that happen?

Pretty much any Chromebook will do all of that.

Though with PDFs it depends on the PDF. I've got a PDF open right now on an i7 desktop PC with 32GB of RAM and it takes like 10-20 seconds to pan around it. It's horrific.

Thermopyle
Jul 1, 2003

...the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. —Bertrand Russell

It sounds like Drive is also a pain to use in a manner its not intended.

Have you tried getting help to fix your problems with GPM?

This is sounding suspiciously similar to an XY problem.

Thermopyle
Jul 1, 2003

...the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. —Bertrand Russell

Hot drat. I can finally use a chromebook for real.

Thermopyle
Jul 1, 2003

...the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. —Bertrand Russell

From a layman's perspective...yes.

Theoretically, you will be able to run any apps that run on Linux.

Thermopyle
Jul 1, 2003

...the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. —Bertrand Russell

Statutory Ape posted:

so does that mean this will be the year of the chromebook desktop?

Not really.

If it ever happens, it will take many years of incremental improvements.

Thermopyle
Jul 1, 2003

...the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. —Bertrand Russell

It works just like Docker does on a Windows host.

Namely, it runs a Linux VM and then runs apps in containers inside that VM.

As long as the CPU supports vmx, the VM might be a percent or three performance hit over the same app running natively. NBD

Thermopyle
Jul 1, 2003

...the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. —Bertrand Russell

RichterIX posted:

Will it extend to older Chromebooks like the one I just got? Should I even bother with Crouton now if I'm not in any hurry, or should I wait and see how this all ends up panning out?

No one knows.

Thermopyle
Jul 1, 2003

...the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. —Bertrand Russell

Statutory Ape posted:

What market share do chromebook have?

I feel like you shouldve typed that into Google.

Thermopyle
Jul 1, 2003

...the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. —Bertrand Russell

Ok, i'll see what i can do.

Thermopyle
Jul 1, 2003

...the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. —Bertrand Russell

The Spin 13 in particular looks good.

3:2 displays are the best displays.

Thermopyle
Jul 1, 2003

...the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. —Bertrand Russell

I'm not really answering your question, but just in case you've not thought of this...

I have a windows VM running in KVM on one of my servers and when I need to use Windows for some reason and I'm at a not-Windows machine I RDP into that VM. I do this from my Chromebook once in a blue moon.

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Thermopyle
Jul 1, 2003

...the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. —Bertrand Russell

ThermoPhysical posted:

I've noticed there's a ton of people saying that the Pro has issues with the display's touchscreen going wonky from a week to about 6 months after usage. When it's RMA'd to Samsung, they replace the display and then it can sometimes crop up again.

The issues range from phantom touches to it just not responding to anything but the pen anymore.

Mine had problems with the touch and tapping where I didn't mean to tap.

I mean, it's just anecdotes, but I've heard of this multiple times.

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