Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
DNK
Sep 18, 2004

WK is still the same WK but now he farms the jungle even better and has a great solo kill / pushing ability. In addition his “no mana cost reincarn” talent got moved to 20 instead of 25.

He’s very solidly buffed. I think he’d make for a pretty drat good 4 position as well with the skeleton / instakill addition.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

DNK
Sep 18, 2004

Tiny seems like an overall nerf and perhaps a change to his intended role.

He still has avalanche + toss burst which is what carries his kit. You can still go arcanes + blink and destroy people midgame. This is his strength.

...but his loss of AGI gain AND his armor skill now means he is very vulnerable to right clickers. Tiny will have zero armor at level 25 without items, and STR carries generally do not buy armor or agi outside of S&Y and Assault Cuirass. Jugger / Naix / AM / Clinkz / Terrorblade will eat him alive.

His kit changed to be very good against casters. His ult now grants up to 40% passive CC reduction, he has very high STR gain — big health pool to absorb nukes and additional CC reduction — and his obvious level 10 talent is 15% magic resistance. Tiny is a great pick against magic damage and disable heavy comps. For example: tiny will escape necrophos’ stun before the scythe lands; you could euls yourself to avoid the damage.

He’s a viable support vs caster cores like timbersaw or necro and mega-good against disabler supports. He’s not a good lane-present core because he gets destroyed by click harass. If you have a kill combo where the opposing team will leave you completely uncontested then you might be able to farm him (aggro lane?).

DNK
Sep 18, 2004

It pings fast enough that if you catch antimage in cogs (and he doesn’t have manta up) it’ll cancel his blink permanently.

Pretty much any spell with a cast animation is hosed.

DNK
Sep 18, 2004

Pick offlaners that can jungle or roam. Then walk around to different lanes, set up kills, and then to back to the tower to get xp once it’s pushed. Easy!

DNK
Sep 18, 2004


Yea SS with aghs and the 3-hit talent is INCREDIBLY powerful. He can very easily solo rat / be your win condition. Nice clip.

DNK
Sep 18, 2004

There are a lot of semicarries that make great supports. It’s probably better to think about the 4/5 as “heroes that are good without items” rather than MUST BE DAZZLE OR LICH.

Monkey King is one of my favorite support heroes because he can do an incredibly amount of ganking / disruption with pretty much zero farm. Just go phase / wand / medallion and purchase wards. If you’re owning then you can go desolator or whatever.

DNK
Sep 18, 2004

That’s a cool patch.
* Initial bounty rune now gives +40 gold to all heroes instead of 100 to the hero that picks it up (those bounty runes look slightly different)

* Killing a neutral camp stack now gives a bonus 15% gold bounty to the hero that stacked it. No bonus is given if the stack is cleared by an enemy or the hero that stacked it. (New audio is now played once a stack is successful. Stacked neutrals have a buff with the stacker's hero icon on it)

DNK
Sep 18, 2004

always steal the creeps
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_38LwPnjRA

DNK
Sep 18, 2004

Troll sniper is coming back baby

DNK
Sep 18, 2004

The medal system is just a way to obfuscate MMR so peoples’ anxiety doesn’t stop them from queueing tryhard mode.

The “floor” of each tier
Herald - 0
Guardian - 780
Crusader - 1560
Archon - 2370
Legend - 3150
Ancient - 3930
Divine - 4710

If you’re approaching those MMR floors, you’re going to be close to getting a new medal. Not all games are +/- 25 MMR so lose10 win10 could be a net positive.

DNK
Sep 18, 2004

Silencer should be removed from AD as a base hero because that passive is too disgustingly good. His other base stat gains are great, too!

DNK
Sep 18, 2004

MK Ult and a ranged hero with Take Aim would be pretty funny. I think they acquire targets outside of the circle if they have range on it.

DNK
Sep 18, 2004

Ive been carrying games with warlock recently. Brown boots, clarities, midas first. Then aghs refresher whatever. His +60% xp talent is bonkers.

His golems do insaaaannee damage. A smidge of micromanagement to send them around pushing lanes / creep camps after engagements make you Very Farmed.

DNK
Sep 18, 2004

Upheaval totally depends on enemy comp. It is an amazing skill in the right situations, though. I’ve gone 0/2/4/1 before against like Sven / Shadowshaman / Viper.

The AOE shadow word is also a very good talent if you’re not being picked off constantly. It allows you to push waves really hard AND be a pretty big source of team healing. I still think the default is the on-death golem (it’s a huge AOE stun and those golems are NUTS!), but if you’re not dying the AOE is good.

DNK
Sep 18, 2004

It’s incredibly rare to actually get multiple seconds of autoattacking in a teamfight. The heroes that CAN autoattack consistently are usually incredibly mobile (morphling, void, slark, clinkz) or incredibly durable (medusa, morph). Even then, clicking heroes need BKBs.

Lich is neither durable nor mobile. You need to itemize for mobility, range, and durability in order to make him capable. That’s pretty tough to do, and if you do it all correctly you’re basically a worse sniper (owned hard by the same counter heroes) with a better teamfight ultimate.

DNK
Sep 18, 2004

It’s difficult to consistently win in the midgame. If your draft ignores the lategame (i.e. doesn’t draft a farm-enabled “carry” and instead picks up a lane dominating “semi-carry”), the odds are against you.

DNK
Sep 18, 2004

Enigma is, IMO, the most busted Underhallow hero, and he’s so rarely ever banned or played.

Here’s the build:
•stick + 2 obs / sentry
•refresher
•aghs
•Aeon Disk / shadowblade

W/E/W/Q —> R>E>Q

Get your allies to give you their escape potion so you can drop a 3-man Black Hole every teamfight. By the 4th fight you should have either won or you’ll have shadowblade.

Sell everything that’s not immediately useful to your team in order to get refresher ASAP. Enigma clears very fast due to eidolons so you’ll almost always be 6 at the first engage.

Drop obs and buy more obs occasionally at choke points. Save 1 sentry in case the enemy has weaver or mirana. buying observer wards is maybe the single most important thing that will win you games. If you get the drop on the enemy team it’s GG.

There’s no point where Enigma is bad. Midnight pulse + aghs black hole is like 75% pure damage + 500 magic damage. I’ve ended games with a solo triple kill.

If you lose it’s probably because your allies didn’t take heroes that clear rooms fast enough. The overarching meta of underhallow is about clear speed first, teamfight second, and with teamfight on lockdown all you really need is the ability to slay trash and get XP as fast as possible.

Lina / Leshrac is my fav pair with Enigma due to good clear speed and AOE damage to pump into black hole.

DNK fucked around with this message at 14:54 on Aug 13, 2018

DNK
Sep 18, 2004

Try explaining smoke of deceit. That’s an item that is cool and good but makes absolutely no sense to a newbie.

DNK
Sep 18, 2004

Vando posted:

Oh come on, I know we're talking about league players but "turn the team invisible so you can sneak up on people" isn't exactly a high tier brain genius concept is it

It turns you invisible except it doesn’t work when you’re near heroes or towers. That isn’t very useful to newbies.

It’s usefulness requires you to understand how minimap vision affects decision-making, how observer wards work, why you place them, and why NOT killing them and using smoke of deceit is even more powerful than using a sentry to deny vision. Smoke of deceit is not invisibility except on the very edge of daytime vision, and telling a newbie it turns you invisible will cause them to use it completely ineffectively.

DNK
Sep 18, 2004

Dota is cool. Just jump in and start playing.

Dota plus is basically in-game statistics about which talents (kinda like hots) have the best winrate and other metagame-y stuff. Not necessary at all, and https://www.dotabuff.com is basically the same thing but free in a browser format.

I strongly suggest ignoring most out-of-game words and videos and just start playing. You’re probably going to lose more than you win for your first few games, but that’s ok.

There’s an enormous skill curve to this game with the best pro players being like 30 standard deviations away from the average player (for their public MMR performance; this says nothing about their dedicated team strategies and in-role performances). It’s cool to watch and hear about that stuff, but if you’re having fun and want to get better then submit a gameID (and make your games public) and we can maybe critique it.

DNK
Sep 18, 2004

I’m one game away from Divine 4. Every single game has a Riki in it now, boy’s a beast.

DNK
Sep 18, 2004

Mid pudge is definitely scrub-tier poo poo, but if you can somehow win mid AND gank the side-lanes, yeah sure, go for it. At any rank.

The problem with it in higher ranks is that most mids are really good at farming safely, and you’ll end up with a pudge hitting creeps in mid while a SF, Ember, or whatever are instantly clearing mid while also farming their own jungle. Mid is rather commonly a place for heavy damage dealers to lane, and pudge doesn’t bring a lot of damage.

Offlane pudge (3pos) is basically the same concept but better suited for his capabilities / role.

DNK
Sep 18, 2004

Smythe posted:

leoric has a sick build

Haha shadowblade into moon shard :getin:

DNK
Sep 18, 2004

All offensive, single-target items work.

Solar Crest (enemy)
Orchid
Midas
Nullifier
Euls
Sheepstick
Dagon

This excludes:
Glimmer
Lotus Orb
Solar Crest (ally)
Euls (self)
Pipe
Mek
Greaves

etc

DNK
Sep 18, 2004

I feel like Midas ogre’s pretty legit. It’s not too hard to meander into it even while solo buying wards and full-time supporting because he’s got a 90gpm talent at 10.

As other posters mentioned, it’s really valuable for the experience, and let’s you scale quite dangerously into the midgame.

DNK
Sep 18, 2004

Don’t get GPM and don’t get Midas? What, you people hate money? :raise:

DNK
Sep 18, 2004

Related: willow is insanely OP in overthrow

DNK
Sep 18, 2004

At least solar and necro are really good items on any hero.

DNK
Sep 18, 2004

I wish they made bounties give XP again. That owned really hard for supports.

DNK
Sep 18, 2004

New Clinkz feels really good in the lane (depending on matchups can go either mid or safe with a strong support), but man his new ult skeletons do absolutely nothing.

quote:

Burning Army now deals 24/26/28% of your attack damage instead of 80/100/120% of your base damage.

His lategame suffers immensely for it. If you take your lane advantage to an item build like Deso + Scythe you can dominate the map, but he’s still incredibly squishy. Almost any of the current meta dominators can 100-0 you, and offlaners (and carries!) will have too much armor for you to threaten. It’s sad.

I want the old ult to come back. 28% damage hits (spread across the entire enemy team) is fuckin garbo.

DNK
Sep 18, 2004

My 1 position power ranking based on like 100 1 position games in 7.23:

Always a good pick:
Ursa
Drow
Tiny

Situationally a good pick:
Phantom Lancer
Void Spirit
Viper
Timbersaw
Antimage
Faceless Void
Sven

Okay, I guess:
Terrorblade
Naga

Win the lane, lose the game:
Clinkz

I loving suck at them, but they’re decent:
Slark

Just bad:
Troll Warlord
Phantom Assassin
Necrophos

The meta right now shits on the safelane really hard. It’s like snapfire + venomancer all up in your poo poo 24/7. Midgame teamfights are also insanely hosed due to snapfire ult, treant protector slows, and venomancer poison. You need to be bursty and mobile or you’re going to die. You’d think PA fits well here, but I think there’s some kinda strange armor inflation going on with all the neutral items that makes her feel really underpowered with just Deso, and then you need BKB as well, and then you’re not farming as well as the others...

My unusually successful hero in the safelane has been Viper. That hero loving dominates and isn’t nearly as level-dependent as he was before. One point in nethertoxin allows you to easily farm the jungle, and his talents got swapped around so you’re able to pick up +90 damage at 20 — just when you’re starting to feel a bit lacking.

DNK fucked around with this message at 23:22 on Dec 17, 2019

DNK
Sep 18, 2004

Avoid him and farm. Viper is insanely strong from like level 1-15 and then turns into a slow, sustained-damage seigeboat at best.

Any hero that can waveclear from safety (Lina, KOTL, pango, there’s tons) can stall out the game until that point is hit.

Also: Lifestealer loving eats him alive. Viper cannot so a single damned thing to lifestealer and doesn’t have the mobility to escape him. Just get like armlet deso and click him.

DNK
Sep 18, 2004

Hit the play game button. If you find it fun, continue.

DNK
Sep 18, 2004

I play dota because of the emotional investment. Like it’s a fun skill game, too, but crushing the hopes and dreams of your opponents is what I’m here for.

Of course, that means that someone on the other side isn’t having a good time, but it’s all good: they’ll crush my hopes and dreams at some point.... except they won’t; I’ll come back from the brink of defeat to crush their hopes and dreams in such a way that makes them fear my name, uninstall the game, and become a mountain hermit who can only mutter “dota”.

DNK
Sep 18, 2004

Sayeth Valve: patch on April 9th w/new hero

DNK
Sep 18, 2004

I think it would be incredibly easy to spot a smurf using in-game statistics and looking for their deviation from standards at a given MMR.

Oh, you’re playing Juggernaut? Out of the 25,000 games played in the last week with Juggernaut on Dire against OPPOSING_HERO_SET @ MMR_LEVEL, we can expect with 99.95% confidence that your last hits will be within INTERVAL @ TIME_POINT.

Do that for 15 different metrics tracked over 20 games and... yeah.

DNK
Sep 18, 2004

The game immediately ends if all 5 players on a team disconnect for ~30 seconds. If you’re in a 5 stack you can always immediately end the game.

e: hmmm maybe this isn’t true and one player needs to take the abandon? The game definitely ends if all 5 leave, but the first leaver will get hit with an abandon penalty.

Still, one abandon won’t hurt your behavior score and if you have a 5 stack it’s trivial to rotate that.

DNK fucked around with this message at 23:41 on Apr 16, 2021

DNK
Sep 18, 2004

Y’all are brokebrained Stockholm syndrome maniacs.

DNK
Sep 18, 2004

Here’s my version of that from 2 days ago


Maybe not surprising, game was won off of double aghs black hole. Never ever count Enigma out of the game.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

DNK
Sep 18, 2004

It’s telling someone who’s anti-racist to not be a bigot. That’s it.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply