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Echotic
Oct 20, 2013
Bundaberg Smooth and Shifty. Sarsparilla and Dark Rum. Very tasty.

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Ferremit
Sep 14, 2007
if I haven't posted about MY LANDCRUISER yet, check my bullbars for kangaroo prints

I dont mind Carlton Draught, Most of my friends wouldnt drink it at gunpoint

randomidiot
May 12, 2006

by Fluffdaddy

(and can't post for 11 years!)

Insurance chat: I'm on a $0 deductible/$500 out of pocket plan that runs ~$250/month, but it's an HMO that very few places accept (hence why it's so cheap... BCBS shot up to about $600/month for a similar plan this year). I have to drive a few cities away (and well into the next county) to see my doctor; the only one I've found nearby that takes my insurance insists on cash up front, then he'll mail a refund check whenever he gets paid by the insurance company (and admits "that might take a year or so").

It's going up to nearly $400/month next year. :argh: I do get a substantial subsidy (courtesy of the ACA) that knocks it down to ~$27/month right now, but my portion is going up to about $170/mo next year. Since I have pre-existing conditions that require bloodwork every 3 months, a doctor's visit every 1-3 months (depending how hosed up my bloodwork is), 5 meds a month, and a specialist visit at least once a year, I need to stay on a low deductible/low out of pocket/low copay plan unless I want to declare bankruptcy. Right now routine dr visits to my PCP are free, urgent care is $15, bloodwork is :10bux:, ER visits are $150 (hospital stays aren't covered though, unless I go to a handful of hospitals... the closest of which is half an hour away), and (preferred generic) medications are $5 a month. I'm lucky enough to have a doctor that's worked with this insurance company for quite awhile, and knows their formulary and restrictions well.

scuz posted:

Welp, got my ankle bill. After insurance, I still owe $4 grand, which is like a month-and-a-half's worth of salary. Spent my meager savings on new tires so I don't die this winter. Time to call em and say "hey so yeah please help me pay you."

Serious reply, ask them about any charity programs they may have (assuming it was a hospital ER you went to, anyway). I got a ~$30k hospital visit forgiven like this when I was uninsured and working part time/going to school full time.

Most hospitals have some kind of charity assistance. It's a tax writeoff for them. You're still left with the actual doctor's bills, but often they agree to write off their portion if the hospital does. You usually have to specifically ask about a charity program or low income assistance (which you may not be able to get if you're making $2500/month, but it's worth a shot). They'll want bank statements and probably proof of your expenses; it took a few days to complete all the paperwork, and about a month for them to approve it.

slidebite posted:

Realtors are not too far from the level of used car salesman in my book, but usually have fancier cars and nicer offices, make a grotesque commisiion and still refuse to take responsibility for any gently caress ups that might happen in a transaction. Still like to put their photo on their business cards/ads everywhere like car salespeople. Are you supposed to recognize them, or care about it, when you see them walking somewhere?

(sorry, quoting from October)

So a friend of mine is a realtor... and also sells cars. :haw: She was my downstairs neighbor at my last apartment. To be honest though, I'd use her as a realtor in a heartbeat - she's been honest with me about commissions, who pays her, etc. Probably won't buy a car from her though, more because of the dealer she's affiliated with. I've helped her out on a couple of listings by going into vacant houses and doing random measurements (living room dimensions, fridge cut out dimensions, etc), so she owes me a little bit of a favor anyway.


That looks a lot like an 86-89 Honda Accord DX/LX, but could also be a 3rd gen Prelude S.

Metal Geir Skogul posted:

What's your guilty/embarrassed liquor or other (if you don't drink)?

Bud Ice. It's dirt cheap for a 6 pack of 16 oz, and 5.5%.

If I'm feeling fancy, Bud Light Platinum. 6%, but tastes like liquid bread and costs quite a bit more. 6 pack of 16 oz Bud Ice runs $6.50ish around here, while a 6 pack of 12 oz Bud Light Platinum runs closer to $9.

redgubbinz posted:

Despite living in an apartment complex with many kids all over the place and plenty of well-lit sidewalks, precisely zero trick-or-treaters. I'm gonna have to eat all this goddamn candy aren't I...

My last delivery of the night for Amazon was to a 2nd floor apartment kind of in the middle of nowhere.

They gave me a granola bar, a mountain of chocolate, and a cash tip. I was thrilled about the tip and the granola bar (seriously DO NOT GET BETWEEN ME AND A GRANOLA BAR, I will hurt you if you do), the chocolate I can't really eat much of (at one time anyway).

Also people were tipping really loving good... I spent a few hours doing Uber Eats after I finished with Amazon. Total income just from Uber was $95, plus another $25 in cash tips. I haven't looked at what the in-app tips were yet. Normally I don't get tips on Uber Eats orders. I can't do Uber passenger service since coupe, 2+2 seating, and broken ac (but I hate dealing with people anyway), but passenger stuff pays a bit more per mile. I made ~$40-50 (won't know for ~36 hours) from Amazon on top of that.

randomidiot fucked around with this message at 11:05 on Nov 1, 2017

InitialDave
Jun 14, 2007

I Want To Believe.
I do wonder, seeing as the people we normally get to talk to are at least somewhat intelligent: Does the average American understand how totally hosed their healthcare system is, or the universal self-reporting income tax stuff?

randomidiot
May 12, 2006

by Fluffdaddy

(and can't post for 11 years!)

Nope.

Also, my own experience shows that most people in the UK, Canada, and Australia are far more knowledgeable about what's going on in the US than the average American (I'm lumping myself into this group too - most of my friends overseas are more knowledgeable about our politics than I am).

e: seems like a good time to mention I now have 4 jobs... Amazon, GrubHub, Uber, and Shiftgig. And none of them include such silly things like "vacation" or "medical insurance". At least Shiftgig is a W2 position - they withhold taxes for me, while the others are considered self employment. I'm going to be a magnet for an IRS audit with my 2017 taxes, with all of the writeoffs I'm claiming (I've driven almost 50k for work this year alone, which is good for a nearly $27,000 writeoff, and I write off tolls, my work phone, student loan interest, medical insurance premiums, fees for my mileage tracking software, fees for Quickbooks Self-Employed, etc).

randomidiot fucked around with this message at 11:14 on Nov 1, 2017

Siochain
May 24, 2005

"can they get rid of any humans who are fans of shitheads like Kanye West, 50 Cent, or any other piece of crap "artist" who thinks they're all that?

And also get rid of anyone who has posted retarded shit on the internet."


InitialDave posted:

I do wonder, seeing as the people we normally get to talk to are at least somewhat intelligent: Does the average American understand how totally hosed their healthcare system is, or the universal self-reporting income tax stuff?

But bootstraps!

And the honest answer seems to be no. Mind you, a lot of Canadians right now think that american-style would be cheaper. Even though literally every piece of evidence points to the opposite.

Right-wingers gonna right-wing (or libertarians gonna libertarianate?)

The world is hosed, we're all doomed.

Also, had the worst turnout for trick-or-treaters since we moved here. Only 45 kids, down from our normal 70-80. Depressing, I love halloween and making kids laugh/smile, seeing the costumes, etc. Easily my favorite "holiday" of the year.

CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

The blue glow is a feature, not a bug


Pillbug

InitialDave posted:

I do wonder, seeing as the people we normally get to talk to are at least somewhat intelligent: Does the average American understand how totally hosed their healthcare system is, or the universal self-reporting income tax stuff?

Not the average one, but I certainly do. :smith:

rdb
Jul 8, 2002
chicken mctesticles?

InitialDave posted:

I do wonder, seeing as the people we normally get to talk to are at least somewhat intelligent: Does the average American understand how totally hosed their healthcare system is, or the universal self-reporting income tax stuff?

I would say yes, its probably 60% of the population that understand its hosed, the other 40% have medicare, medicaid or child health plus paying for all their expenses and fygm.

I tell my wife this all the time. I really wish everyone had the same lovely coverage we do because things would change in a god damm hurry. The problem is it varies so much.

I didn’t know our income tax was considered self reporting. Most employers (unless its on a 1099) withhold income tax from your check and send it directly to the government.

OBAMNA PHONE
Aug 7, 2002

InitialDave posted:

I do wonder, seeing as the people we normally get to talk to are at least somewhat intelligent: Does the average American understand how totally hosed their healthcare system is, or the universal self-reporting income tax stuff?

no, most of them don't really. Most people don't like it but a lot of people are terribly misinformed about all aspects of it.

Hell, we have a sizeable portion of the population who didn't understand that Obamacare is the ACA and they like the ACA but hate obamacare. :thunk:

nevermind the fact we have millions of people who say "we have the best healthcare in the world" without a hint of irony

Goober Peas
Jun 30, 2007

Check out my 'Vette, bro


Rolling Rock is my go-to for crock pot chicken. It blends nicely with basil and garlic.

Beverly Cleavage
Jun 22, 2004

I am a pretty pretty princess, watch me do my pretty princess dance....
piss water beer (rolling rock and budlight were my go-to back then) and chocolate chip cookies.

cakesmith handyman
Jul 22, 2007

Pip-Pip old chap! Last one in is a rotten egg what what.

BraveUlysses posted:

nevermind the fact we have millions of people who say "we have the best healthcare in the world" without a hint of irony

The best healthcare in the world might be available in the U.S. (someone will argue with me here but I'm not committed to that hill) but it's irrelevant if you can't pay for it.

I hope you guys don't get ill or in an accident because if I had to deal with a sudden 30k bill I flat out couldn't afford it. I'm worried about paying for my kids hobbies and higher education, get rid of the NHS and I'll hunt you down and skin you alive.

Darchangel
Feb 12, 2009

Tell him about the blower!


Because I'm a contractor, I have no vacation or holiday pay, but at least the contracting agency I work for actually does have health care. It's literally twice what I paid working at my last gig, though. Blue Cross/Blue Shield, and the particular plan I'm on is zero copay, zero deductible EXCEPT for lab work and specialists, and they don't cover hospital care AT ALL. For that I have a secondary insurance that will pay out if one of us needs emergency care or a hospital stay, which is why altogether it's $400/month.
It's open enrollment month, so I'm going to look again at the high-deductible plan. My daughter's psychologist is considered a specialist, of course. The problem with the high-deductible setup is that there are NO copays or negotiated rates. You pay full price until you hit the (high, did I mention that?) deductible, *then* you pay 20% up to the out-of-pocket, which is also high.
Yeah, we're hosed here in the US. It's time to put term limits on Congress and get those old crony fucks out of there, at the very least.

KakerMix
Apr 8, 2004

8.2 M.P.G.
:byetankie:
Healthcare costs and the lack of care when it comes to the environment plays a significant role in my wife and I not having children of our own here in the US.

Adiabatic
Nov 18, 2007

What have you assholes done now?
:siren: Get in on AISS 2017 you bads :siren:

Geoj
May 28, 2008

BITTER POOR PERSON

InitialDave posted:

The issue is it seems like a lot of brewers have an obsession with making them taste foul.

It doesn't help that a lot of breweries use the hop forward flavor to mask poor brewing practices. Having issues with a wild yeast strain or bacteria in the mix? Dial up the hops and hope nobody notices.

cakesmith handyman posted:

The best healthcare in the world might be available in the U.S. (someone will argue with me here but I'm not committed to that hill) but it's irrelevant if you can't pay for it.

This is pretty much the case.

My sister was until recently working for a government run civil service program (Americorps) that pays minimum wage but writes down a sizable percentage of your student loans in exchange for a year of service. As a result she qualified for medicaid.

Recently she was diagnosed with idiopathic intracranial hypertension (the pressure of the fluid in her brain cavity is too high) and as a result of being on medicaid has been hand-waved away by numerous doctors and even after being diagnosed with a potentially life-threatening condition (among the causes of her condition are infection or massive brain tumor, not to mention the risk of permanent blindness from pressure being exerted onto her optic nerves) has more or less been in a holding pattern. Had to wait a month for an MRI scan - which fortunately came back clear - and is now two weeks into a 6-8 week wait for a spinal tap to relieve pressure. It's highly unlikely that someone who could pay cash or at least with a generous insurance policy I would have to wait 3+ months for treatment.

And just to illustrate how broken our system is - it made more financial sense for her to quit a full time job as an administrative assistant to maintain eligibility for medicaid than retain the job and have their insurance cover it.

GnarlyCharlie4u
Sep 23, 2007

I have an unhealthy obsession with motorcycles.

Proof

Metal Geir Skogul posted:

Okay people, I have a question: What's your favorite "guilty pleasure" beer/drink/sin? My GF's is Grolsch. She used to drink it a bunch as a younger person, and still enjoys one maybe every six months. Mine is Coors Banquet. It's garbage, but I enjoyed it for a few years off and on, and I really enjoyed it playing My Summer Car. I have this rule where, if I go to a proper liquor/wine store, I buy something different every time. I mean, I may buy the same thing, but it has to also include something I've never had before. The only two beers I get with any regularity (like, maybe 4 times a year, tops) are Coors Banquet and Heineken. Everything else I try is brand spankin' new.

What's your guilty/embarrassed liquor or other (if you don't drink)?

There's just something about PBR that takes me back to a better time of eating chicken skin tacos and getting stoned all the loving time.
Miller Light takes me back to being 10 and doing chores. Mmmm, splitting wood, puffer vests, wheelbarrows, and grass clippings.

Echotic posted:

Bundaberg Smooth and Shifty. Sarsparilla and Dark Rum. Very tasty.
Bundaberg is incredibly my poo poo. I recently introduced a friend to "Dark 'n' stormies" and blew his goddamned mind.
No I don't use that molasses bullshit blackstrap rum.

scuz
Aug 29, 2003

You can't be angry ALL the time!




Fun Shoe
Black Label beer is like drinking a hug, reminds me of times when I had no responsibilities whatsoever and everything was great.

keykey
Mar 28, 2003

     

bolind posted:

My three weeks old son just looked my dead in the eye and then expelled an eight second fart. Never blinked. Never looked away.

If he pees on you, you gotta pee back on him to show him that you, in fact, own him... At least for the first 18 years.

Dagen H
Mar 19, 2009

Hogertrafikomlaggningen

keykey posted:

IfWhen he pees on you

GnarlyCharlie4u
Sep 23, 2007

I have an unhealthy obsession with motorcycles.

Proof

scuz posted:

Black Label beer is like drinking a hug, reminds me of times when I had no responsibilities whatsoever and everything was great.

mekilljoydammit
Jan 28, 2016

Me have motors that scream to 10,000rpm. Me have more cars than Pick and Pull
Crossposting from my project thread that nobody reads because I'm just so loving excited. So, OK, weeeeelp, the Skip Barber bankruptcy auctions start ending today. It's sad that this longrunning institution went out of business.

... buuuuuuut, I just won the auction for a water brake for an engine dynamometer. If it's the model I think it is, it should be able to hold 800hp, includes a water pump, and I have a data acquisition system capable of controlling it (need valves and stuff but whatever)

So yeah, priming poo poo to get ridiculous.

iForge
Oct 28, 2010

Apple's new "iBlacksmith Suite: Professional Edition" features the iForge, iAnvil, and the iHammer.
AI:SS thread now in the stickies.

the spyder
Feb 18, 2011
Heading to SevenStock this weekend at the Auto Club Speedway - http://www.sevenstock.org - Recommendations on what to do in the area?

the spyder
Feb 18, 2011

mekilljoydammit posted:

Crossposting from my project thread that nobody reads because I'm just so loving excited. So, OK, weeeeelp, the Skip Barber bankruptcy auctions start ending today. It's sad that this longrunning institution went out of business.

... buuuuuuut, I just won the auction for a water brake for an engine dynamometer. If it's the model I think it is, it should be able to hold 800hp, includes a water pump, and I have a data acquisition system capable of controlling it (need valves and stuff but whatever)

So yeah, priming poo poo to get ridiculous.

We must combine forces... to break your dyno.

The Locator
Sep 12, 2004

Out here, everything hurts.





Dumb healthcare question.

The benefits package where I work is something that is held out as part of why good people should work for us. Competitive pay and good benefits is something that you simply must have if you want to attract and keep good talent. You can substitute higher pay for worse benefits, or sometimes better benefits for worse pay, but the combination has to be attractive at some level if you (as a company) want to keep solid talent on the payroll.

My company is heavily IT, and it's really difficult to keep good people in the long term, because the really good people can get huge raises by just jumping ship periodically.

Is the lovely healthcare I'm reading about in this thread because this just isn't true of most industries in the country? Is there no competition for good workers so no need to provide good benefits and/or pay? I guess it just seemed obvious to me that good employees would migrate to good companies that provided these benefits, and the other companies would need to step up and provide similar benefits/pay if they wanted to not constantly lose their talent. It sounds like this is completely not true, and I'm puzzled as to why, as it seems like the labor market would force the companies into providing decent benefits.

Garage2Roadtrip
Oct 27, 2016

The Locator posted:

Dumb healthcare question.

The benefits package where I work is something that is held out as part of why good people should work for us. Competitive pay and good benefits is something that you simply must have if you want to attract and keep good talent. You can substitute higher pay for worse benefits, or sometimes better benefits for worse pay, but the combination has to be attractive at some level if you (as a company) want to keep solid talent on the payroll.

My company is heavily IT, and it's really difficult to keep good people in the long term, because the really good people can get huge raises by just jumping ship periodically.

Is the lovely healthcare I'm reading about in this thread because this just isn't true of most industries in the country? Is there no competition for good workers so no need to provide good benefits and/or pay? I guess it just seemed obvious to me that good employees would migrate to good companies that provided these benefits, and the other companies would need to step up and provide similar benefits/pay if they wanted to not constantly lose their talent. It sounds like this is completely not true, and I'm puzzled as to why, as it seems like the labor market would force the companies into providing decent benefits.

I think you're kind of skirting around answering your own question. The industry that a lot of people with sub-par health benefits are employed in are not necessarily high level or even career-level employment. I don't agree with "poor people get poor care", but it's an inalienable truth in our controlled-market health economy.

Another data point: my health insurance is BCBS through the federal gov't. It has a really low copay, low deductible somewhere around $5000. The salary for that job also makes it so you should be carrying at least $5k in savings as long as you're not financially wasteful. This plan costs me as a member $375/mo and covers my wife and I. My wife works as a nurse practitioner, and the cancer center she works for offers a worse policy that costs her less for a family, and she was able to decline coverage through them and increase her salary by ~$4500/yr as a result. I have a heart condition that requires medication that costs more than the aggregate cost of the plan premiums, and the plan covers like 95% of that cost. A couple years ago I required heart surgery that cost $397,000, and I paid something like $2700 out of pocket because we had used the other $2300 in that year.

edit: corrected redundancy since I didn't know the difference between deductible and max cap.

Garage2Roadtrip fucked around with this message at 18:56 on Nov 1, 2017

InitialDave
Jun 14, 2007

I Want To Believe.

rdb posted:

I didn’t know our income tax was considered self reporting. Most employers (unless its on a 1099) withhold income tax from your check and send it directly to the government.
What I mean is that it seems an awful lot of Americans seem to regard it as normal that you have to fill out forms declaring your income etc and making sure what you've paid in tax is correct, and to get a rebate if you've overpaid. Really, only people who are self employed (or otherwise receiving income "directly") need to do that, the average working stiff just gets their payslip with it all dealt with and that's the end of it. "Doing taxes" is completely alien to almost all employees in the UK.

The Locator
Sep 12, 2004

Out here, everything hurts.





Don't get me wrong, I would love to see affordable health-care for everyone in the country, whether that was through a single-payer system or something completely different. I was more just curious about how different industries manage to keep good employees with lovely benefits.

The example above where a nurse practitioner in a cancer center has a worse health care option than the government job is mind boggling to me. With the incredible demand for health care professionals I would expect the health plans available to the employees to be fantastic in order to attract the workers.

Geoj
May 28, 2008

BITTER POOR PERSON

The Locator posted:

I'm puzzled as to why, as it seems like the labor market would force the companies into providing decent benefits.

Market forces forcing employers to offer better benefits doesn't work for a simple reason - nobody else does.

Employers have the choice of keeping profits/distributing them to those at the top/shareholders or spending them on employee wages and benefits. Without a critical mass of employers doing so there's no impetus for anyone else to, so most jobs offer mediocre or borderline terrible benefits as a result.

InitialDave
Jun 14, 2007

I Want To Believe.
The latest Dirt Every Day with the RAV4 is using almost the exact build idea I've wanted to have a play with for making a 4x4 "buggy" drivetrain using a FWD powerpack.

mekilljoydammit
Jan 28, 2016

Me have motors that scream to 10,000rpm. Me have more cars than Pick and Pull

the spyder posted:

We must combine forces... to break your dyno.

I mean poo poo, I'm game. I'm mostly focusing on NA stuff to start, but that's "to start". :D

The Locator
Sep 12, 2004

Out here, everything hurts.





Geoj posted:

Market forces forcing employers to offer better benefits doesn't work for a simple reason - nobody else does.

Employers have the choice of keeping profits/distributing them to those at the top/shareholders or spending them on employee wages and benefits. Without a critical mass of employers doing so there's no impetus for anyone else to, so most jobs offer mediocre or borderline terrible benefits as a result.

But why is it true of the IT industry but not (for example) the healthcare industry? Am I just living a lie that this is a truth in the IT industry?

Geoj
May 28, 2008

BITTER POOR PERSON
I think IT offering excellent benefits across the board is a bit of a myth. Even when I worked for HP before the split I would have called my benefits just on the good side of mediocre at best.

Garage2Roadtrip
Oct 27, 2016

The Locator posted:

The example above where a nurse practitioner in a cancer center has a worse health care option than the government job is mind boggling to me. With the incredible demand for health care professionals I would expect the health plans available to the employees to be fantastic in order to attract the workers.

In my opinion the cancer center is doing it "more right" than the feds. Health insurance shouldn't be the only carrot on a stick for good employees. In her case she's getting nearly 175% of the expected pay in her field. The feds just throw together the best/most expensive package and eat a ton of the cost on their end because the house has all the money. The cancer center operates with thinner margins and are in a constant battle with medicare/caide paying them enough to keep the lights on. They are doing as best they can to provide a reasonable and cost effective insurance policy to their employees, but they can't just go nuts with high end insurance.

I would also venture to guess that what you're experiencing in IT isn't universally found in the field. It will be entirely corporate size dependent.

Garage2Roadtrip
Oct 27, 2016

InitialDave posted:

What I mean is that it seems an awful lot of Americans seem to regard it as normal that you have to fill out forms declaring your income etc and making sure what you've paid in tax is correct, and to get a rebate if you've overpaid. Really, only people who are self employed (or otherwise receiving income "directly") need to do that, the average working stiff just gets their payslip with it all dealt with and that's the end of it. "Doing taxes" is completely alien to almost all employees in the UK.

Depending on who you ask (libertarians, others) this is just an enormous construct to generate jobs (the IRS). I think a large part of the reason is the compounding variability of US tax law. I personally would love a flat tax, regardless of source or income level, everyone pay 17% or whatever. But with tax exemptions, rebate programs, variables like dependents/businesses/etc... you have to declare all your specifics before your final April 17th number is hammered out.

edit: for example, I'm self employed with a 1099 income, a retirement income, and a w2 income. Federally, I pay like 32% on the 1099, 15% on the retirement, and i think mid 20's on the W2 job. My wife is a W2 employee, and if you do a W4 correctly, she should only be giving up like 18% or something (which is way wrong). So if you have unique situations you have to crunch the numbers or guess what your witholding should be, and hope you break even or get paid a little at the end of the tax year.

Garage2Roadtrip fucked around with this message at 19:32 on Nov 1, 2017

Coredump
Dec 1, 2002

Garage2Roadtrip posted:

Depending on who you ask (libertarians, others) this is just an enormous construct to generate jobs (the IRS). I think a large part of the reason is the compounding variability of US tax law. I personally would love a flat tax, regardless of source or income level, everyone pay 17% or whatever. But with tax exemptions, rebate programs, variables like dependents/businesses/etc... you have to declare all your specifics before your final April 17th number is hammered out.

Flat rate tax is regressive and the low/middle class would pay more of the tax burden.

cakesmith handyman
Jul 22, 2007

Pip-Pip old chap! Last one in is a rotten egg what what.

Flat tax is a terrible idea and punishes the poor.

E:yup, that ^

Garage2Roadtrip
Oct 27, 2016

Coredump posted:

Flat rate tax is regressive and the low/middle class would pay more of the tax burden.

Why? @17% if you make $20k a year you pay $3400, if you make $2M you pay $340,000. Are you saying it's regressive because there are more people in the under middle class, and therefore collectively bear the brunt of the tax burden? If so why wouldn't that be a more accurate payment scheme? Should people that make more have to pay a higher percentage to carry the lower earners?

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InitialDave
Jun 14, 2007

I Want To Believe.

Garage2Roadtrip posted:

Depending on who you ask (libertarians, others) this is just an enormous construct to generate jobs (the IRS). I think a large part of the reason is the compounding variability of US tax law. I personally would love a flat tax, regardless of source or income level, everyone pay 17% or whatever. But with tax exemptions, rebate programs, variables like dependents/businesses/etc... you have to declare all your specifics before your final April 17th number is hammered out.

edit: for example, I'm self employed with a 1099 income, a retirement income, and a w2 income. Federally, I pay like 32% on the 1099, 15% on the retirement, and i think mid 20's on the W2 job. My wife is a W2 employee, and if you do a W4 correctly, she should only be giving up like 18% or something (which is way wrong). So if you have unique situations you have to crunch the numbers or guess what your witholding should be, and hope you break even or get paid a little at the end of the tax year.
We don't have flat rate tax here either, the banding is automatically worked out based on your income. But all that bollocks you just described? Done for me. I might have to fill out a form to be checked for eligibility for any benefits I qualify for (I don't), but I don't have to run the numbers myself.

Coredump posted:

Flat rate tax is regressive and the low/middle class would pay more of the tax burden.
In fairness, you could address that with a high tax-free allowance, so you're entitled to earn X and after that you're taxed at Y%.

I feel that such a system would be nominally better if you set it up right, but I agree that the problem is finding a way not to shaft people in doing so, and I can't see that happening any time soon.

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