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!Klams posted:And finally in my list of "This is in the rules and I have read it and could read it again, but don't really 'get' get it", what's the deal with sharing crafting goods? It seems that you can share everything but metal, leather, wood and gold. But then quite quickly you can use gold to just buy the other three and you can give any crafting stuff to the communal place... but you cant use wood / metal / leather from communal to craft items... I dunno it just feels really arbitrary, and so far it's meant we can share literally everything we've ever needed to except one piece of metal someone needed for some armor, and... I dunno, is this good? Is this fun? It feels so weird that you have to go through this massive checklist to say "Yeah that's fine" 99 times out of 100, for that one feelbad.... why? I suppose later on when we're using items as crafting materials more often it will be more commonplace that we can't help each other out, and ... I 'guess' that makes sense, not sharing your items, but, so far, no item has felt so overpowered that giving it to the right player would be less fun.
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Apr 2, 2024 19:11
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God I fucking love Diablo 3 gold, it even paid for this shitty title
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I think the 'no trade' rule is dumb for both loot and gear. I assume the justification is so that everyone equally has pressure to go loot things in scenarios, but in practice it's more annoying than fun. We abide by the rule but I would have no qualms house-ruling it away if my group wanted to.
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Apr 2, 2024 21:01
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That and the initiative rule are two kind of clumsily implemented things to make the game I guess semi-competitive and force some extra strategy. The looting thing makes some more sense in Gloomhaven where you are supposed to be mercenaries so there is at least some thematic reason for each character greedily hoarding wealth. I think in particular the early addition of the Scoundrel as a starting class probably cemented individual loot piles as a rule to both increase the relative power of that class and prevent situations where they just easily loot for their allies. In Frosthaven carrying over unshared loot/items/resources as a rule makes such little sense because you are supposed to be working together to make this outpost in a dangerous tundra with sparse resources, so it seems counter to the theme to have attitudes like "no you can't have this animal hide for a coat, it's mine!". Plus you just have so many loopholes and ways around a lot of it to allow for building management and other effects, so it almost becomes hard to remember what the limitations are. I think I would have preferred if they switched it up and made everything sharable but just increased the cost of some of the personal items by just a bit to make it more fair.
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Apr 2, 2024 21:43
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We permit use of the collective resources in the city for crafting, but only contribute our individual materials to the collective upon retirement, so you're spending either retired characters' loot or stuff produced or gained by the town itself.
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Apr 2, 2024 23:53
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I think the reason collective isn't used for crafting is you can get to a point where a new character just rolls in with a full kit and the game is balanced around you not being able to do that
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Apr 3, 2024 00:10
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IcePhoenix posted:I think the reason collective isn't used for crafting is you can get to a point where a new character just rolls in with a full kit and the game is balanced around you not being able to do that
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Apr 3, 2024 00:23
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We do collective loot and a few other things to better fit a sporadic one-scenario schedule with players dropping in and out. We’ve still found the game to be plenty difficult. We may just be kinda bad
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Apr 3, 2024 03:10
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My blinkblade has the retirement quest focused around getting items. So he now has the looting shoes and the looting hat, and I run the move-and-loot bottom and the move-and-loot top cards, and I run the persistent token track that gives me extra moves at the end of my top action so I can loot at the end of nearly every turn. I just hoover up everything. I'm not greedy with it - I happily pay for whatever event cards come up and make sure we are keeping up on building new buildings. It's just fun looting the whole scenario. While I'm on the topic, I want to ask is there a rule on what happens if you empty the loot deck in a scenario and then pick up another loot bag? Is it just empty or what?
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Apr 3, 2024 03:53
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re: collective loot - I like the idea of collective loot, but the mini-pvp game of aggressive looting is a ton of fun and I would hate to lose it.ChocolatePancake posted:Oh man, that sheet. Maybe it's in there somewhere? That would have been a useful thing for me have kept in a prominent place lol. Something else you probably missed is that those Random Blueprints are separated into two smaller decks at the start of the game so you don't get anything requiring 3-herb potions until you unlock Alchemist 3. Honestly, putting a symbol on the back of the card is a good idea and I will recommend it for whenever Bighaven 3 comes around, assuming I am still kicking around. I don't know if it would have helped though - they're purple to distinguish them, and this is mentioned in the rulebook. I'm not sure the (critical) game setup instructions should be combined with the default organization, but I undestand why it is. Maybe they should make "STOP! Read this first!" bigger or something?  Jimbozig posted:My blinkblade has the retirement quest focused around getting items. So he now has the looting shoes and the looting hat, and I run the move-and-loot bottom and the move-and-loot top cards, and I run the persistent token track that gives me extra moves at the end of my top action so I can loot at the end of nearly every turn. I just hoover up everything. dwarf74 fucked around with this message at 04:32 on Apr 3, 2024 |
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Apr 3, 2024 04:28
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One thing that's oddly inconsistent is how the game handles cards you haven't unlocked. You get to see the challenge cards right away but can't use them until you unlock their building. However the pet cards are in the envelope of the building that unlocks them. Why is one handled one way and not the other?
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Apr 3, 2024 05:07
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Even just the names being "random item" and "random item blueprint" is confusing. They sound like short and long-form terms for the same thing. Making the latter one just "random blueprint" and then writing "random item #X" or "random blueprint #Y" on the back would go a long way.
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Apr 3, 2024 05:33
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Cliff posted:One thing that's oddly inconsistent is how the game handles cards you haven't unlocked. In 2nd printing, the two section coin cards are in the envelope where they belong. So that's good.
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Apr 3, 2024 06:51
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I definitely read through the setup instructions, but it was so long between setting up and getting our first random item that I forgot which was which and didn't remember where I had put that setup guide. Not a big deal in the end. We'll just do it correctly going forward.
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Apr 3, 2024 14:09
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IcePhoenix posted:I think the reason collective isn't used for crafting is you can get to a point where a new character just rolls in with a full kit and the game is balanced around you not being able to do that That gets solved in a single scenario, though. Literally you suffer through one underequipped mission, then go craft your potions, maybe sell a starter item if you didn't loot enough gold, buy 3 of everything from the town and craft up all your gear. Maybe your first retirement it takes a few scenarios to come online but our latest characters were fully kitted out after that first frustrating scenario.
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Apr 3, 2024 17:04
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My solution would be to make all items cost some gold, even if they're crafted. Then gold can stay as the individual loot, all the crafting materials and herbs can be shared, and as a bonus it gets rid of the problem of gold not having a purpose until you've unlocked the correct buildings. I guess you'd have to get rid of material costs giving you gold when you sell an item but oh well.
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Apr 3, 2024 19:57
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SynthesisAlpha posted:That gets solved in a single scenario, though. Literally you suffer through one underequipped mission, then go craft your potions, maybe sell a starter item if you didn't loot enough gold, buy 3 of everything from the town and craft up all your gear. Maybe your first retirement it takes a few scenarios to come online but our latest characters were fully kitted out after that first frustrating scenario. Potions can be handed off when created, and can use herbs from the central supply, so you don't even have to wait for them.
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Apr 3, 2024 23:26
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UrbanLabyrinth posted:Potions can be handed off when created, and can use herbs from the central supply, so you don't even have to wait for them. Is that for all potion crafting or only when unlocking a new one? Or is there even a distinction?
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Apr 4, 2024 00:09
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SynthesisAlpha posted:Is that for all potion crafting or only when unlocking a new one? Or is there even a distinction? All potion crafting. As far as your other single scenario thing goes, that assumes there's enough gold to go around (there isn't always, sometimes you want to save your own gold for enhancements or personal quests or any other number of reasons) and/or you have all the buildings leveled up enough (my group doesn't because we're prioritizing other buildings and their upgrades).
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Apr 4, 2024 00:16
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I know at least once I brought in an item with my prosperity cash, then sold it so I could buy materials during outpost phase and get multiple crafted items instead. That's gotta be part of the calculations once you get prosperity up a couple levels. I can see it being more difficult to gear up in a 4p group if people actually compete for loot. Mayne we've just gotten lucky and our first couple scenarios with each character were very looty or had fixed gold rewards.
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Apr 4, 2024 00:29
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SynthesisAlpha posted:I know at least once I brought in an item with my prosperity cash, then sold it so I could buy materials during outpost phase and get multiple crafted items instead. That's gotta be part of the calculations once you get prosperity up a couple levels. I'm assuming you mean you bought the materials then crafted after your first scenario, since retirement/new character creation (also assuming prosperity cash is your starting money) happens after the building operations phase. And like, yeah you can do that if you want to. Or you can use that money on useful items that you might have trouble getting the gold for otherwise. Usually on character creation we (and there are four of us, fwiw) do the "buy something so we can sell it for half" only if we don't have enough money to buy anything else we want. A lot of the stuff you can buy for gold is super useful!
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Apr 4, 2024 01:41
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misguided rage posted:My solution would be to make all items cost some gold, even if they're crafted. Then gold can stay as the individual loot, all the crafting materials and herbs can be shared, and as a bonus it gets rid of the problem of gold not having a purpose until you've unlocked the correct buildings. I guess you'd have to get rid of material costs giving you gold when you sell an item but oh well. This is actually such a good idea I'm going to pretend to my group that it's in the rules (lie). Because, it only has to be 1 gold every time, which is utterly negligible, BUT, immediately reintroduces the "Someone else can take care of that monster I'm going to loot" thing that's such a good part of the game. It means when you loot and get gold, you actually feel like 'you' got something, rather than just finding 'a part of the communal solution', which makes all gold loot feel a bit better. And then also, for some reason, for me, this actually makes the 'shareable / non shareable' thing feel suddenly WAY more cohesive. Like, I want to loot all the gold I can get, for ME, to be able to craft, because the only way to get those crafting things, is to loot gold or them. But then sometimes, some stuff needs other weird poo poo to craft. Well, that's fine because that weird poo poo we can trade among each other. And, that kind of feels like real life. If I'm building a shield, I'm not gonna expect to use my 'friends' money, metal, lumber or leather. But if it needs curing I might ask him for some of his weird leaves to boil up. And then, I wouldn't expect it off my friends, but I might donate my 'fancy' stuff to help build the town. Which, yeah, I KNOW that's exactly what it says in the rules, and the intention, but for some reason the fact that gold isn't tied to crafting (directly) makes it feel like there are 3 categories instead of 2, and that feels 'rulesy' whereas two categories feels thematic.
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Apr 4, 2024 10:08
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I'm going to be honest, I do not like the crafting. I don't like the extra bookkeeping it entails over gold. I also am profoundly lazy and went a good 10 scenarios before I could be assed to actually do any crafting on my deathwalker after retiring my banner spear. There's just a bunch of cross referencing I don't want to do and whatever mats an item requires to craft it just flies out of my head unlike gold prices which I could vaguely remember. Or more lazilly, just needing to remember that if I had 30 gold I should give the item pile a look. Whereas in FH it wasn't until I was just sitting on 2 each of the basic resources before I went well surely with 2 of everything there must be something I can craft. Turned out there wasn't though. I mean there was, but nothing I actually wanted at the time and this was around prosperity 3. I did finally deck out when we built the first 2 levels of the Trading post and there was finally something I actually wanted. Interesting juxtaposition with my 1st character who was a banner spear and completely spoiled for choice from the get go in terms of craftable equipment. Failboattootoot fucked around with this message at 12:53 on Apr 4, 2024 |
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Apr 4, 2024 12:50
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Failboattootoot posted:I'm going to be honest, I do not like the crafting. I don't like the extra bookkeeping it entails over gold. I also am profoundly lazy and went a good 10 scenarios before I could be assed to actually do any crafting on my deathwalker after retiring my banner spear. There's just a bunch of cross referencing I don't want to do and whatever mats an item requires to craft it just flies out of my head unlike gold prices which I could vaguely remember. Or more lazilly, just needing to remember that if I had 30 gold I should give the item pile a look. Whereas in FH it wasn't until I was just sitting on 2 each of the basic resources before I went well surely with 2 of everything there must be something I can craft. Yeah, the equipment in this feels like it all errs on the side of underpowered, as a way to balance it, and then it's just all 'better than nothing', unless it's something super niche, which means those super niche things feel 'amazing', despite still not being overpowered. I think that works quite well, or, seems to so far (we're also only lvl 3). What I've noticed though is that some of the random blueprints / items we've found require 'other' items to make them. That would totally explain the underwhelming nature, because it means we're going to have to craft 'other' stuff, (this early stuff), as reagents to get the later, more powerful stuff, and through that lens it seems pretty cool. Like, crafting isn't really a thing early on, but looks to be pretty in depth further down the line. Maybe that doesn't pan out though, anyone who's gotten later in the game, confirm / deny?
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Apr 4, 2024 13:19
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Keep upgrading the Trading Post and all those problems go away
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Apr 4, 2024 14:45
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Elephant Ambush posted:Keep upgrading the Trading Post and all those problems go away If I had one 
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Apr 4, 2024 19:46
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!Klams posted:Maybe that doesn't pan out though, anyone who's gotten later in the game, confirm / deny? It's hit or miss. Some of the upgrades do make you go daaaaamn while others are just whatever.
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Apr 4, 2024 22:30
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mightygerm posted:If I had one Retire more characters!!!
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Apr 4, 2024 22:42
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I’ve taken so long to retire my first character that both of the unlocks are already done. The consolation prize of a random blueprint and scenario feels pretty bad and more of a thing intended for when you’re near the end of the campaign.
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Apr 8, 2024 12:47
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mightygerm posted:I’ve taken so long to retire my first character that both of the unlocks are already done. The consolation prize of a random blueprint and scenario feels pretty bad and more of a thing intended for when you’re near the end of the campaign. The 2 prosperity is always important.
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Apr 8, 2024 13:50
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dwarf74 posted:How long did it take, and which PQ? “Aesther outpost”, and I’ll finish it around the end of year one. Most other players have retired two characters by now.
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Apr 8, 2024 15:54
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I was under the distinct impression that that PQ was the only way to unlock that building given the storyline involved
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Apr 8, 2024 16:05
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mightygerm posted:“Aesther outpost”, and I’ll finish it around the end of year one. Most other players have retired two characters by now. Tbf the rest of your party is wayyyyyy ahead of the curve if you've had multiple people with 2 retirements before the end of year 1. The average PQ length is supposed to be around 15 scenarios per retirement, my group of 4 is about to have its 6 retirement halfway through summer of year 2 and it sounds like you've already had at least 5 before your 20th week (i'm guessing since you said "most of" you're playing with 4 people and 2 of them have had 2 retirements with the other person having 1) EDIT: also while it's unlucky to have unlocked both of the possible envelopes, I'm guessing that means when you choose your next PQ you're more likely to hit on a new one; you should definitely be comparing possible envelope unlocks when choosing your PQs as well (it doesn't say to do this obviously but there's no rule that says Guy A. Person fucked around with this message at 16:50 on Apr 8, 2024 |
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Apr 8, 2024 16:46
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Guy A. Person posted:Tbf the rest of your party is wayyyyyy ahead of the curve if you've had multiple people with 2 retirements before the end of year 1. The average PQ length is supposed to be around 15 scenarios per retirement, my group of 4 is about to have its 6 retirement halfway through summer of year 2 and it sounds like you've already had at least 5 before your 20th week (i'm guessing since you said "most of" you're playing with 4 people and 2 of them have had 2 retirements with the other person having 1) I could see it with some of the loot related PQs if the players just got super lucky, but that’s definitely ahead of the curve. We just hit the end of year 1 and the three of us have each retired once plus one unlock from inspiration, and everyone is probably 4-5 away on their 2nd if we really targeted them specifically.
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Apr 8, 2024 17:51
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I retired my first character about 2/3 the way through year 1. Rest of my group retired their first right about the end of year 1.
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Apr 8, 2024 18:03
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shot in the dark but I bet one of them had the PQ that requires a campaign achievement to start the first scenario (which the PQ itself unlocks) and they didn't notice that it required said achievement and just rushed it
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Apr 8, 2024 19:02
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We play with 5 people(kinda), 3 of us have been in basically every session and the other 2 about half each. I’m one of the three, with the other two having two retirements each. Player 4 is going to retire next week and 5 is about 2/3s through. I can’t remember the names of all the PQs we have finished, but for buildings we have 44, 85, 88, and 90 from retirements. My pq will doubled up on 44/88.
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Apr 8, 2024 19:37
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Got sick of squinting at the cards in Buttons & Bugs so I made a play booklet like Jaws. Much better experience and it lets me use the models I have from it as a bonus.
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Apr 8, 2024 23:08
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Does anyone have recommendations for a Coral damage/bruiser guide? I just had a rather quick retirement at level 5 playing a tank/water build. It did the tanking well, but the water felt very clumsy to use efficiently and actually get the benefit of the three check perk. Overall, it was an interesting class, and level 5 is pretty early to retire so I'm considering rolling it again with a different view.
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Apr 9, 2024 18:52
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Question about Frosthaven Building 81 The trial scenario text simply says 'when a trial is completed....remove it from the game and draw a new trial'. This appears to me to occur instantly in any phase of the game, unlike say a challenge which are drawn via the Build Ops step. For example, if I clear a trial in the middle of a road event I am immediately drawing a new one before anything else resolves. I'm aware this probably changes next to nothing in the grand scheme of things, but is that accurate?
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Apr 9, 2024 19:47
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Saint Freak posted:Question about Frosthaven Building 81
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Apr 9, 2024 23:51
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