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iospace
Jan 19, 2038


curling is on nbcsn

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General Dog
Apr 26, 2008

Everybody's working for the weekend
This is boxing's big chance to make a comeback.

Grittybeard
Mar 29, 2010

Bad, very bad!

General Dog posted:

This is boxing's big chance to make a comeback.

There are exciting things happening in boxing!

No really, I'm serious. :effort:

Asproigerosis
Mar 13, 2013

insufferable

General Dog posted:

This is boxing's big chance to make a comeback.

Ah yes, the only bloodsport in existence with MORE permanent brain damage issues than football.

Zwabu
Aug 7, 2006

The CTE issue killing football participation is real. I live in a football crazy town in a football crazy state, everything is college football, NFL football, MY FANTASY TEAM etc. all day every day. Even before the current bullshit with Trump poo poo stirring the Kaep situation, I've heard more than one of the upper middle class to well off people that I work with (who are really into football) express that they'll never let their kids play because of this. My sister's family has expressed that also (different state).

I suspect within ten years it'll be entirely a game of poor kids (more than it is now) and then die out not too long after.

seiferguy
Jun 9, 2005

FLAWED
INTUITION



Toilet Rascal

Grittybeard posted:

There are exciting things happening in boxing!

No really, I'm serious. :effort:

Canelo vs. GGG was a great fight!

... up until the judges' ruling.

General Dog
Apr 26, 2008

Everybody's working for the weekend

Zwabu posted:

The CTE issue killing football participation is real. I live in a football crazy town in a football crazy state, everything is college football, NFL football, MY FANTASY TEAM etc. all day every day. Even before the current bullshit with Trump poo poo stirring the Kaep situation, I've heard more than one of the upper middle class to well off people that I work with (who are really into football) express that they'll never let their kids play because of this. My sister's family has expressed that also (different state).

I suspect within ten years it'll be entirely a game of poor kids (more than it is now) and then die out not too long after.

But that begs the question of how much talent upper middle class well off people were contributing to the upper levels to begin with.

Kalli
Jun 2, 2001



General Dog posted:

But that begs the question of how much talent upper middle class well off people were contributing to the upper levels to begin with.

Almost all of the QB's.

swickles
Aug 21, 2006

I guess that I don't need that though
Now you're just some QB that I used to know

General Dog posted:

But that begs the question of how much talent upper middle class well off people were contributing to the upper levels to begin with.

I would say at the QB position, quite a bit. It costs money to go to all these QB development camps, which is how they end up getting scouted and rated as the #1 Pro Style or #3 Dual Threat QBs, which leads to better (football) schools recruiting more aggressively, resulting in higher profile and exposure for the draft.

General Dog
Apr 26, 2008

Everybody's working for the weekend

swickles posted:

I would say at the QB position, quite a bit. It costs money to go to all these QB development camps, which is how they end up getting scouted and rated as the #1 Pro Style or #3 Dual Threat QBs, which leads to better (football) schools recruiting more aggressively, resulting in higher profile and exposure for the draft.

I had the same thought, but on the other hand are the Marv Marinovich-style psycopath sports dads who produce these quarterbacks really going to be scared off so soon?

SKULL.GIF
Jan 20, 2017


beejay posted:

This subforum can't even seriously talk about a major problem in the sport it's dedicated to without getting nonsensically derailed. I don't know if it's denial or just the bleak realization that nothing can be done and the sport will keep mass-producing brain damaged people until it goes away. Either way, :smith:

Well, what would we really talk about? This is a social change based on something that TFF readers realized was happening almost a decade ago. We've already came to our conclusions and opinions and all, we're just watching it play out now finally that it's penetrated into general societal awareness.

One of the biggest draws of football is the strength vs. strength struggles. If you take that away, take away both the lineman struggle and the tackling, and turn it into flag football then a lot of the anticipation and tension is taken out of the game. Moving more towards rugby might work. But the whole appeal of football is that there's an use for every body type, a place for the short speedsters, a place for the huge brawny slow men, a place for the agile men with hops.

Baseball is horrible to watch on TV, but fantastic in person. Football kind of sucks to watch in person tbqh but is perfectly suited for TV thanks to replays, multiple camera angles, and chatter/stats in between plays. Hockey is entertaining both in person and on TV, as is soccer to a lesser extent.

Lacrosse should be more popular than it is, IMO. Plenty of gear to protect players, dazzling shots, plenty of room to make plays. Straight up tackling people or collisions are much rarer than in football, and still less violent than in hockey. Mandating that you lead with your hands and banning cross-checks reduces the damage that any one hit can do, while keeping an element of violence and strength in the game.

iospace
Jan 19, 2038


Lacrosse is also really hard to get into as a player.

We were joking in hockey chat that the thread should be subtitled "trust fund stick"

Chromatic
Jan 21, 2005

You guys ready to hear a satanic song?

Ehud posted:

lol if you haven't started mentally preparing to make basketball your #1 sport

go thunder

a neat cape
Feb 22, 2007

Aw hunny, these came out GREAT!

Ehud posted:

lol if you haven't started mentally preparing to make basketball your #1 sport

If I wanted to watch a bunch of dudes standing around while one guy makes a play, I'd watch the Raiders defense

Fate Accomplice
Nov 30, 2006




a neat cape posted:

If I wanted to watch a bunch of dudes standing around while one guy makes a play, I'd watch the Raiders defense

the one guy making a play is on the opposing offense right

Suspect Bucket
Jan 15, 2012

SHRIMPDOR WAS A MAN
I mean, HE WAS A SHRIMP MAN
er, maybe also A DRAGON
or possibly
A MINOR LEAGUE BASEBALL TEAM
BUT HE WAS STILL
SHRIMPDOR
Why on earth are we not feilding Rugby as an alternative? WE CAN MAKE OUR OWN RUGBY TYPE

Barudak
May 7, 2007

Suspect Bucket posted:

Why on earth are we not feilding Rugby as an alternative? WE CAN MAKE OUR OWN RUGBY TYPE

We did, its what we're playing

algebra testes
Mar 5, 2011


Lipstick Apathy
Imagine if they find CTE in OJ's brain.

Hizawk
Jun 18, 2004

High on the Lions.

algebra testes posted:

Imagine if they find CTE in OJ's brain.

Then he's as murderer who also has CTE.

iospace
Jan 19, 2038


Cross-lifting from the NHL N/V:

glynnenstein posted:

Ugh. This is shockingly terrible. The NYT updates from Stephen Peat's father on his struggles with post-concussion related problems.

quote:

‘I Have No Idea How to Tell This Horror Story’
NOV. 21, 2017

John Branch, a sports reporter at The New York Times, has been in sporadic contact via text messaging and email with Walter Peat since writing about him and his son Stephen, a former N.H.L. player.

At the time of the article, in June 2016, Stephen Peat was 36 and experiencing debilitating headaches and violent mood swings. Peat was primarily an enforcer, a player designated to drop his gloves and square off in fist-to-fist combat with an opponent. The Peats presumed that Stephen’s problems were rooted in brain trauma sustained on the ice in so many fights.

Walter Peat, the head saw filer at a lumber mill in a suburb of Vancouver, British Columbia, gave The Times permission to publish the texts and emails he had sent John over the previous 18 months. Some have been trimmed for concision.

(Stephen disputes his father's accounts and said, “I am disappointed in my father since I once held him so high on a pedestal.”)


JUNE 7, 2016
Again, we thank you for doing our story, which hasn’t ended yet. I just hope Stephen can get some help, going forward. We had a great day yesterday, as just the 2 of us went boating for the day. Beautiful day, making memories together.


DEC. 30, 2016: John is copied on an email to a doctor with the N.H.L. Players’ Association.

Dr. Rizos,
We are at a critical point in Stephen’s health. I am afraid, Stephen may become another statistic in NHL players who’s life is ended due to brain injuries suffered from playing. We are desperate for help, as we have run out of resources and energy to cope with this. The NHL has offered zero help. I am sorry we haven’t contacted you sooner, but Stephen is stubborn, and proud. It has gone past that, and hope someone will help. He is suffering badly from memory loss, depression, extreme headaches, and at times suicide thoughts. Along with this, tough when he get frustrated and anger comes out. He has got violent a couple times, and at times I am afraid for my life. I love my son very much, and you have no idea how much this hurts to see him like this. Please help.
JUNE 1, 2017

Just an update on Stephen, not sure if the NHL might want to know, but Stephen is in lockup, been arrested 2 times in the last week for parole violation. May spend the next 6 months in jail, he is real bad shape, and like I said before, I don’t have the resources or the knowledge to deal with this. I saw him yesterday, looks horrible, he is homeless. I know one can lead a horse to water theory, but I am afraid this could be very close to his end. At times he has no idea who he is or where he is.

Stephen needs special medical attention badly, as I also believe he has gone back to self medicating, not sure, but you can’t imagine what bad shape he is in. I fear he may not make it out of lock up, but there is nothing I can do, or don’t know what to do. The system is flawed.

He is in lock up now, most likely won’t get released now. Only violation is not seeing his parole officer, but he forgets, a complete mess right now. Probably the safest place for him, but he won’t get fixed in a cement cell.


JUNE 7, 2017
I will be honest, my health has suffered thru this, and I am at a financial crisis as Stephen has gone through $120,000 since getting out of rehab. And he is demanding more every day, to a point if I continue this, I will be on the street. Stephen can’t comprehend my financial stress he has put on me. I went to meet him at Clover Towing the other day, Stephen looked in real bad shape, as he didn’t even know I was there. I had to leave, and stop in a parking lot next door and just broke down. The police were called by the towing company and they took him to jail. He should be in a hospital, not a jail, we can talk more about this. I will say I have had to get a no contact order as I fear for my safety now. If he is in a state where he doesn’t know who I am, it scares me.


JUNE 14, 2017
John, sorry for not getting back to you. It has been a real poo poo show with Stephen this last few days. I have been overwhelmed with just trying to deal with him. I will try to contact you when it settles down here. Tks for your concern and interest.


NOV. 7, 2017: Walter sends John an email that he sent to Stephen’s probation officer in June, asking for a no-contact order against his son.

I think it best we do not have any contact at all, and if he needs to contact me, maybe a mediator, or thru you if possible.

I need to step away, and allow my son to hit bottom on his own.

I DO NOT WANT ANY CONTACT AT ALL, FROM THIS DAY FORWARD.


Walter sends John his response to a query from Stephen’s probation officer.

I am not sure what there is to discuss. it seems no one wants to help, just rubber stamp things until my son dies. He has had no help from the NHL, and from what I can assume, no help from the government, or law authorities. It is well document that my son suffers from concussion issues, and he is treated like a common criminal. yes, he is breaking the law, but, what is the root cause. His doctors say he is doing drugs, maybe he is, but why, again the root cause. It is very well document that many of these players or people who suffer from concussion syndrome reach out for a solution, but end up with drugs off the street to solve their problem.

He was a young man who had thousand of fans cheering for him every time he dropped the gloves, fighting for the Langley Thunder Junior team, the Calgary Hitman, Red Deer Rebels, Tri City Americans.

Stephen played for the Washington Capitals, for 4 years, one time had 13 fights in 12 games, bare knuckle fights with big guys, some who are already dead now due to concussion related injuries. Yet, here we are, trying to put Stephen in jail because no one has any idea what to do with him. Yes, my brothers and I have asked for a no contact order, as we are concerned for our safety, but at the same time, we love him, and fear every phone call we get, it is someone to tell us he has died. I will tell you this, that John Branch wants to do a follow up story, NY Times, and this story will have an ending. Sad. How we write that ending is up to all of us, I have tried my best, and much like Stephen, have had the door closed in my face. I am 66 years old, sold my house to help, running out of funds, and really, my health has gone south because of this. I have avoided talking to John Branch as it is very difficult talking about a lost cause. Many night, I cry myself to sleep, trying to figure out a new plan. But, no matter what I do, I wake up to an endless problem.

His life is at stake, he used to be the most polite young man, straight “A’ in school, and now, he can’t remember why he gets up in the morning.

Sincerely

Walter Peat


NOV. 13, 2017
Hi John

Tks for replying. Not sure, but the fact Stephen is deteriorating fast, living on the street, has pretty much zero help from NHL, and my relationship with him had gone south. With his condition, he needs professional help, as I would suggest his mind set has gone off the rails. I made arrangements for him to stay at my brothers, and both brothers are pretty much handicap, but ended up being removed by the police for threats, etc. his mind leaves him lost at times. Confused, aggressive, and I will be honest, he scares the poo poo out of me, and for that matter my brothers. It saddens me to seem helpless as Stephen has accused me of interfering in his affairs. I have no idea how to tell this horror story, but I am sure there are many living this nightmare. I am thinking that this may all come out one day, but my biggest fear is my son will not be with us, as he even talks about suicide at times. every time I get an email or an unknown number calling me, about him, I fear the worst news. The legal system, and the medical system hear only wants to paint him as a criminal or a drug addict. I would suggest both may be the case, as his situation has forced him to do what ever it takes to relieve the pain, anxiety etc, from the headaches.

Again, I am a normal person who loves hockey, but to see what the game has become, and the end result of the violence allowed on the ice. The worst is the fact, that most sports teams are still in the dark as far as recognizing the health risks associated with many sports. The rule book must be re:written.

Right now, I am at a loss of what to do, and who to turn to for help. Many night, I lose countless hours of sleep, thinking of what will happen, and am I doing the right thing. There are so many people who prefer to put a paper bag over their head and ignore the fact that Stephen or so many players suffer from these injuries. But, the injuries just don’t stop there, as the emotional, financial, and in some cases, physical injuries suffered by family members. I am living the nightmare of the movie “Concussion”,

I honestly have no idea where to take this, other that keep trying to tell the story, and maybe others won’t feel so lonely, like they are on a deserted island.

He is so mad at me, that it has come to yelling at me, making threats, etc, as really, I was/am the only person left in his life trying to help, as many just look at him, as just another person on the the street, and bum dumpster diving for food.

John, I am open to anything that may bring this into into the open, so people can see what hockey is breeding. And where many of it’s players end up. it is so sad that Stephen had his own cheering section in Washington, but now, many of his fans have now idea or care what he is doing.

Sincerely

Walter


NOV. 13, 2017: Walter responds to John’s request for permission to publish the messages he has sent about Stephen.

John,
I personally would not have a problem with that. Fact is, I feel like I am the one who has failed my son, as I feel I have has the ability to fix anything. This is something I struggle with everyday. I will admit I have tears in my eyes as I respond to this, as Stephen is texting me right now, begging for money. Says he can hardly lift his arms, as he is so weak, starving, cold, but still blames me for all that has happened to him. Some days, I find this whole nightmare like a bad dream, wishing I could wake up, and it was all over.

Android Apocalypse
Apr 28, 2009

The future is
AUTOMATED
and you are
OBSOLETE

Illegal Hen
…And they say the Canadian health care system is superior to the US system.

:wtc:

J/K this is just :saddowns: all around.

iospace
Jan 19, 2038


Android Apocalypse posted:

…And they say the Canadian health care system is superior to the US system.

:wtc:

J/K this is just :saddowns: all around.

Yeah... fights are a part of hockey, but for how long?

DJExile
Jun 28, 2007


iospace posted:

Yeah... fights are a part of hockey, but for how long?

They've been gone from the college game for years now and I gotta be honest, I have not missed them.

sponges
Sep 15, 2011

How is fighting in Hockey still a thing? Is there much backlash against it?

As someone who doesn't watch the sport it's one thing I find mystifying

Android Apocalypse
Apr 28, 2009

The future is
AUTOMATED
and you are
OBSOLETE

Illegal Hen
Fighting is a holdover from the days when the idea of "policing your own" was a thing. Back in the day you'd have guys crushing stars with somewhat legal hits and if the ref didn't call it, they'd keep up with the punishment. Eventually you'll have guys square off to keep this poo poo from boiling over into bench-clearing brawls. It eventually evolved into a system of enforcers that do nothing but get into fisticuffs with other enforcers when the mood of a fight is in the air.

These days just having a roster spot for an enforcer that can't play actual hockey is detrimental to the whole team in terms of winning, so fighting is definitely on its way out.

If you got time to kill read up on the history of fighting in the NHL. It's fascinating.

sponges
Sep 15, 2011

Android Apocalypse posted:

It eventually evolved into a system of enforcers that do nothing but get into fisticuffs with other enforcers when the mood of a fight is in the air.

So not every gets in fights? Like what would happen if someone threw down with Wayne Gretzky?

a neat cape
Feb 22, 2007

Aw hunny, these came out GREAT!

sponges posted:

So not every gets in fights? Like what would happen if someone threw down with Wayne Gretzky?

Gretzky probably wouldn't fight. He's too important to risk losing for two minutes.

Also trying to fight someone wearing heavy pads seems like a vacation from the insanely physical act of playing hockey

Android Apocalypse
Apr 28, 2009

The future is
AUTOMATED
and you are
OBSOLETE

Illegal Hen
It's one of those weird unwritten rules in hockey. You don't go after a star unless they're the one that's instigating the fight. Otherwise you got Goon on team A going after star on team B, then Goon on team B goes after star on team A.

There is a sense of pride if a star can hold their own in a fight. That's how you get the Gordie Howe hat trick (a goal, an assist, and a fight in a game).

a neat cape
Feb 22, 2007

Aw hunny, these came out GREAT!
Goalie fights rule

algebra testes
Mar 5, 2011


Lipstick Apathy

sponges posted:

So not every gets in fights? Like what would happen if someone threw down with Wayne Gretzky?

Marty McSorley would probably kill that person

Android Apocalypse
Apr 28, 2009

The future is
AUTOMATED
and you are
OBSOLETE

Illegal Hen
Yes they do.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShLRNCW-3DE
My favorite is still Mike Vernon vs. Patrick Roy. Those old Avalanche/Red Wings feuds were when I was following hockey the most frequently.

Android Apocalypse
Apr 28, 2009

The future is
AUTOMATED
and you are
OBSOLETE

Illegal Hen
I also recognize that while fights in hockey are really exciting, I don't really need it in the sport.
The fate of Derek Boogaard is one of the most :smith: tales you'll read.

a neat cape
Feb 22, 2007

Aw hunny, these came out GREAT!

Android Apocalypse posted:

Yes they do.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShLRNCW-3DE
My favorite is still Mike Vernon vs. Patrick Roy. Those old Avalanche/Red Wings feuds were when I was following hockey the most frequently.

I still love the Miller/Bernier fight from a few years back

DJExile
Jun 28, 2007


Fighting in the NHL seems way down from where it's been in like the 80s and 90s. Someone less lazy than me could look up the number of fighting majors.

got any sevens
Feb 9, 2013

by Cyrano4747
I'm sure cte is why oj murdered nicole

Android Apocalypse
Apr 28, 2009

The future is
AUTOMATED
and you are
OBSOLETE

Illegal Hen
OJ’s estate would definitely use that defense when he dies.

iospace
Jan 19, 2038


a neat cape posted:

Goalie fights rule

The seriously do.

The league, via the AHL, is taking steps to curb fighting. Any fight after your 10th in a season is going to result in a suspension. Now while the chances of that happening are slim, it still sends a message.

Scrums around the net and whatnot will still happen, and rarely do those get assessed any form of penalty (similar to how it works in the NFL).

DJExile posted:

Fighting in the NHL seems way down from where it's been in like the 80s and 90s. Someone less lazy than me could look up the number of fighting majors.

:effort:

3 DONG HORSE
May 22, 2008

I'd like to thank Satan for everything he's done for this organization

got any sevens posted:

I'm sure cte is why oj murdered nicole

no, it's why he wrote a book about murdering her

Time
Aug 1, 2011

It Was All A Dream
OJ didn’t kill her

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Barudak
May 7, 2007

Time posted:

OJ didn’t kill her

He did in Civil Court which is why he couldnt pay for any of his bar tabs in miami.

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