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Hellioning
Jun 27, 2008

Oh no. Sliders. My one weakness.

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Poil
Mar 17, 2007

There's nothing inheritable bad about sliders, it's all in how they're used. I hope EUV will have a comet slider.

Jay Rust
Sep 27, 2011

IMHO all sliders should move in increments of 10. I will never fund something 53%; 50 or 60 only.

cheetah7071
Oct 20, 2010

honk honk
College Slice
They say in a later post that there will be buttons to automatically move the sliders according to certain criteria. Presumably it'll be things like "set the nobility tax rate to whatever keeps them at 50% loyalty equilibrium"

Detheros
Apr 11, 2010

I want to die.



Jay Rust posted:

IMHO all sliders should move in increments of 10. I will never fund something 53%; 50 or 60 only.

Make all sliders move in increments of 7.093 :sickos:

Jel Shaker
Apr 19, 2003

Jay Rust posted:

IMHO all sliders should move in increments of 10. I will never fund something 53%; 50 or 60 only.

nothing better than tweaking a slider pixel by pixel so your army maintenance stays green on a siege

Poil
Mar 17, 2007

What if the slider scaled poorly with the UI so the higher your resolution the more increments you can adjust it by?

Groke
Jul 27, 2007
New Adventures In Mom Strength

Poil posted:

What if the slider scaled poorly with the UI so the higher your resolution the more increments you can adjust it by?

What if you had to set your slider options in AUTOEXEC.BAT?

THE BAR
Oct 20, 2011

You know what might look better on your nose?

We need to go back to .ini for all entity variables.

AAAAA! Real Muenster
Jul 12, 2008

My QB is also named Bort

Detheros posted:

Make all sliders move in increments of 7.093 :sickos:
You absolute monster.

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.
Imperator's back baby.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man


I sometimes feel guilty when I get to a point in a run where it's going well and I don't desire to continue.

I did a Novgorod to Russian Empire run and it's the 1690s and I own basically everything east of the HRE and north of India + Britain and the eastern med coast withn 100+ abs and estate privileges going and I could probably WC from here but it's like ... "Meh the Ottomans still have 700% province war score cost"

On the other hand I now know pretty much how to start Novgorod optimally

cheetah7071
Oct 20, 2010

honk honk
College Slice
I had a run where I just wanted a relaxing game so I picked ottomans and eyelets were so busted that I made it to China without any real challenge. The coalition in Europe disbanded at that point and I tried fighting France, who turned out to have enough random morale modifiers to have like 1.2 more morale than me. Which is where I stopped the run since the goal was to have a relaxing game and fighting that France would be anything but relaxing.

UP AND ADAM
Jan 24, 2007
I just got to 1629 as Austria, had a very spirited series of wars with reformation countries (no league war, except a defacto one the first time I declared to take out a site of reformation), and rotating allies in France, Ottomans, Commonwealth, etc, and several mistakes made it all take longer than it needed to, and I revoked the privilegia for the first time and I have 60 vassals that love me, lots of Ottomans left to conquer and if I want to take over someone's colonies I could start by easily invading their homeland, but it's hard to think of an interesting next path to take. After not playing this for a long time, the missions are cool, but revoking privilege let me complete like 8 at once (felt good as hell) so I'm running low, even with Austria's tree. This feeling hasn't diminished with 20+ years of playing 4x's and grand strategy games, and I keep playing them, so I don't know if it's actually a big problem.

cheetah7071
Oct 20, 2010

honk honk
College Slice
The worst part of the Austrian mission tree is that it wants you to conquer into the HRE so if you're trying to revoke, you essentially just ignore it and then get 10 missions all at once. That's one of the things they're fixing in the upcoming DLC.

I found the vassal swarm gameplay kind of fun, though speed 5 running half as fast makes it pretty tedious. I wish HRE countries didn't need their capitals in Europe; them needing a christian capital connected to the HRE via only christian provinces feels like enough of a restriction. The puzzle of how to feed african and asian provinces to your vassals while still managing to have CBs against the next countries, and not making any vassal so big they start becoming uselessly disloyal is not a particularly fun one, imo.

cheetah7071 fucked around with this message at 16:38 on Apr 14, 2024

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man


cheetah7071 posted:

The worst part of the Austrian mission tree is that it wants you to conquer into the HRE so if you're trying to revoke, you essentially just ignor it and then get 10 missions all at once. That's one of the things they're fixing in the upcoming DLC.

I found the vassal swarm gameplay kind of fun, though speed 5 running half as fast makes it pretty tedious. I wish HRE countries didn't need their capitals in Europe; them needing a christian capital connected to the HRE via only christian provinces feels like enough of a restriction. The puzzle of how to feed african and asian provinces to your vassals while still managing to have CBs against the next countries, and not making any vassal so big they start becoming uselessly disloyal is not a particularly fun one, imo.

the worst part of the austrian one is the amount of devving you're expected to do in Hungary

Zedhe Khoja
Nov 10, 2017

sürgünden selamlar
yıkıcılar ulusuna
not one ducat for avar peasants

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.
I should get off my rear end to finish my Zoro-austrian run before the next patch but meh.

Wafflecopper
Nov 27, 2004

I am a mouth, and I must scream

playing video games is the literal opposite of getting off your rear end

TTBF
Sep 14, 2005



So I'm playing as the Avengenin Kingdom for 50 years after the Reformation. We're almost to the next age. I have not gotten a pop up event called Church of England to let me form the Church of England (as I'm seeing is the process online), nor am I seeing a decision or an option in the religious conversion menu. My only options are Protestant and Reformed. If I turn on spectate mode, the first thing the AI does is convert to Anglican, so I know it's possible. How do I do it?

JosefStalinator
Oct 9, 2007

Come Tbilisi if you want to live.




Grimey Drawer

TTBF posted:

So I'm playing as the Avengenin Kingdom for 50 years after the Reformation. We're almost to the next age. I have not gotten a pop up event called Church of England to let me form the Church of England (as I'm seeing is the process online), nor am I seeing a decision or an option in the religious conversion menu. My only options are Protestant and Reformed. If I turn on spectate mode, the first thing the AI does is convert to Anglican, so I know it's possible. How do I do it?

Did you move your capital to the low countries?

TTBF
Sep 14, 2005



Yep. Moving the capital back to London fixed it. Thank you.

Sekenr
Dec 12, 2013




The silliest EU game I ever had was when I got so high that I loaded EU II (or maybe even 1) and it had main menu background that look like a map of Europe with fortress walls instead of borders, I got so fascinated by the concept that I sat there staring at this picture for an hour and ended up never starting the game at all.

Anno
May 10, 2017

I'm going to drown! For no reason at all!

https://store.steampowered.com/app/2854750/Expansion__Europa_Universalis_IV_Winds_of_Change/

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.

quote:

Native America Colonies in the Old World.

:sickos:

Sybot
Nov 8, 2009
Tinto Talks #8

More economy, including loans, taxes, food and interestingly a simplified Vicky-esque RGO system.

Private Speech
Mar 30, 2011

I HAVE EVEN MORE WORTHLESS BEANIE BABIES IN MY COLLECTION THAN I HAVE WORTHLESS POSTS IN THE BEANIE BABY THREAD YET I STILL HAVE THE TEMERITY TO CRITICIZE OTHERS' COLLECTIONS

IF YOU SEE ME TALKING ABOUT BEANIE BABIES, PLEASE TELL ME TO

EAT. SHIT.



Looks pretty great TBH.

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

Delicious and Informative!
:3:

Sybot posted:

Tinto Talks #8

More economy, including loans, taxes, food and interestingly a simplified Vicky-esque RGO system.
I've been hoping someone would talk to Johan about this, but I can't keep silent any longer! The word is economic, not economical.

Anyway, the economic systems seems pretty good. Wouldn't have expected the loans system to fire up the imagination, but the way it's tied into the estates sounds promising.

Jay Rust
Sep 27, 2011

It's weird/funny/interesting that 90% of EU4 expacs have negative reviews on steam.

Dallan Invictus
Oct 11, 2007

The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes, look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.

Jay Rust posted:

It's weird/funny/interesting that 90% of EU4 expacs have negative reviews on steam.

Isn't that just the run of the course for Paradox DLC?

The Tinto Talks are really killing my desire to play EU4, which is a bad sign for any plans I had of finally coming to grips with Anbennar.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man


A Buttery Pastry posted:

I've been hoping someone would talk to Johan about this, but I can't keep silent any longer! The word is economic, not economical.

Anyway, the economic systems seems pretty good. Wouldn't have expected the loans system to fire up the imagination, but the way it's tied into the estates sounds promising.

There's an argument to make that as "economic" can mean "of or pertaining to economy," "economical" can be "of or pertaining to economic," as a second-order adjective, so meaning "the various systems of economic things" and having a distinct meaning here. It would be analogous to "peoples," "fishes," or the way that "utilize" can mean "to bring into use." Not arguing with you just rolling the word around in me noggin.

Frionnel
May 7, 2010

Friends are what make testing worth it.
So, i asked some questions in the comments but the dev diary made me a bit confused about the workings of Control.

Previously i thought Control measured exclusively the Court's ability to exploit the provinces. What i got was that low control would result in estates getting away with untaxed gold.

From this dev diary and Johan's posts, it's the estates that exploit a province based on how much control you have, and their money is then taxed by the Court. So a province with low control means estates are generating less money. So in this picture:


0.42 gold is being generated and fed to your estates. The remaining 0.34 that could be generated effectively does not exist, it never enters the world's economy. Instead, rebels check for low control, and lower control means stronger and more frequent rebellions.

Private Speech
Mar 30, 2011

I HAVE EVEN MORE WORTHLESS BEANIE BABIES IN MY COLLECTION THAN I HAVE WORTHLESS POSTS IN THE BEANIE BABY THREAD YET I STILL HAVE THE TEMERITY TO CRITICIZE OTHERS' COLLECTIONS

IF YOU SEE ME TALKING ABOUT BEANIE BABIES, PLEASE TELL ME TO

EAT. SHIT.


Dallan Invictus posted:

Isn't that just the run of the course for Paradox DLC?

The Tinto Talks are really killing my desire to play EU4, which is a bad sign for any plans I had of finally coming to grips with Anbennar.

By far the most upsetting thing about EU4 is that Anbennar might never get its last continent, which really sucks.

e: Err EU5 not 4.

Private Speech fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Apr 17, 2024

cheetah7071
Oct 20, 2010

honk honk
College Slice
It is a bit confusing, but I think I understand control: it seems to be something like, what percentage of the population gives a poo poo about the king. Those are the people you're capable of enforcing taxes on, those are the people you're capable of taking loans from, and those are the people who invest their wealth in projects that have a benefit for the nation as a whole. Uncontrolled people will pay their money into either local projects that don't benefit the state, or into rebellion

It's a bit weird, I'll admit. Johan explains in a later comment that it was driven by game design. If non-controlled provinces still used their wealth productively, the drive to reduce control wouldn't be there. They wanted to model the transition to centralized states so they need a game mechanic pushing players to want to do that.

I do hope they take another stab at explaining the distinction, or revise it to be a bit less unintuitive. But that's the idea.

Frionnel
May 7, 2010

Friends are what make testing worth it.
Yeah, it's what i'm getting too. Obviously Control is an abstraction, so if you question too much it falls apart. The weird unintuitive bit is what happens when you conquer a province. I'll adapt an example i saw in the comments:

Imagine Riga is an OPM. Because control is 100% in the capital, Riga's estates can capture all of the province's possible wealth.

Now imagine that Riga was diplo annexed by the Teutonic Order. Because the province is now subject to the Teutonic Order's Control, and Control loses effectiveness with distance from the capital, Riga's Control now sits at 50%. Because uncontrolled wealth is lost to the economy, this means that the province has become 50% poorer overnight.

You can justify this with a simple head canon, like you did: in real life what would happen is that the remaining wealth would stay at the hands of local elites that aren't assimilated to the state's administration. But it's unintuitive and weird, because the global market has lost the wealth too.

Jay Rust
Sep 27, 2011

autonomy

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

Delicious and Informative!
:3:

Frionnel posted:

Yeah, it's what i'm getting too. Obviously Control is an abstraction, so if you question too much it falls apart. The weird unintuitive bit is what happens when you conquer a province. I'll adapt an example i saw in the comments:

Imagine Riga is an OPM. Because control is 100% in the capital, Riga's estates can capture all of the province's possible wealth.

Now imagine that Riga was diplo annexed by the Teutonic Order. Because the province is now subject to the Teutonic Order's Control, and Control loses effectiveness with distance from the capital, Riga's Control now sits at 50%. Because uncontrolled wealth is lost to the economy, this means that the province has become 50% poorer overnight.

You can justify this with a simple head canon, like you did: in real life what would happen is that the remaining wealth would stay at the hands of local elites that aren't assimilated to the state's administration. But it's unintuitive and weird, because the global market has lost the wealth too.
I don't think it's really that unintuitive and weird. With no outside pressure, the peasantry would just produce what they need in their own community, and their production would be almost entirely divorced from the larger national/global economy. It's only when you introduce further non-productive layers of hierarchy on top that you put pressure on the peasantry to produce more, and to make it available to "the economy". The province of Riga in your example didn't become 50% poorer over night, its peasants merely took advantage of the new administration being unfamiliar with the region and kept that poo poo for themselves.

cheetah7071
Oct 20, 2010

honk honk
College Slice
Well, more like the local leaders soaked up the wealth rather than kicking any upstream. The peasants likely aren't seeing any of it either way

Hellioning
Jun 27, 2008

I enjoy how little Johann cares about hiding this is EU5.

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Frionnel
May 7, 2010

Friends are what make testing worth it.
I think it's more that the locals would still be buying food, importing/exporting goods, moving the economy in some way that affects the market. In this case it seems they don't.

I fully concede that this doesn't matter much and i'll roll with it when playing the game.

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