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There's too many fun new nations to try and I'm paralysed by choice. E: in case anyone else cares as much as I do about this sort of thing: Rum can take the "City of the World's Desire" decision but otherwise doesn't get any cool freebies aka events or decisions. Persia can't be formed by a tribe meaning that the Sheep can't form Persia without changing government type, even though AQQ has a special exception to allow then to form Persia while being the wrong culture. Most of the Persia flavour events still require you to be Shia. Hisn Kayfa gets 2 unique missions to conquer some land. Forming Mughals now only requires 200 development. RabidWeasel fucked around with this message at 01:05 on Nov 17, 2017 |
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Nov 16, 2017 19:03
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Rassids is a much more awkward start than I was expecting, forming Yemen is easy but the Somalis keep allying everyone I want to declare on and I'm way too poor to afford a navy so I can't actually go fight them.
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Nov 17, 2017 00:08
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I'm not really a fan of how the Islamic schools mechanic works. Having your school based on your starting nation is fine, but the 'invite school' option might as well just be blanked out unless you have vassals or you're in the earlier part of the game when you can actually have allies that stick around for a while. And there's far too many schools which can get wiped off the map before you even get a chance to use them.
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Nov 17, 2017 01:05
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Seems like maybe the schools could be tied to provinces as well? So like, you have Muslim religious centers for the various schools, which as long as they are not converted, remain a source of that type of scholar even if the country that controls it isn't of that school - and of course you get the option of inviting a scholar from these schools if you control their religious center yourself. Some schools might have more than one center, and perhaps if a religious center is converted there should be a chance that the school relocates to another Muslim province - either the capital of a nation of that school, or if not available, a random province in a nation which currently has a scholar of that school. I was thinking this exact same thing - it would seem reasonable to have 'centre of <school>' similar to how we currently have other sites of specific religious importance as part of the map setup. They would work more or less exactly as you've described. It just seems weird that you can apparently totally remove a strain of Islamic thought from existence by annexing a couple of states.
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Nov 17, 2017 08:20
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I spent literally all my game playing time yesterday trying to decide which state would be the most fun to use to form a Shia powerhouse and I'm still not really decided (I did spend most of that time playing but it was just testing various starting scenarios and poking around at new fun stuff) I really wanted to try an Ayyubid Persia game but gently caress that start is RNG as hell and I can't be bothered with that poo poo. Rassids are a fun start but Yemen is a bit of a boxed in region and having to deal with all the assholes on the other side of the Red Sea is a nuisance. Most of the states in the Azerbaijan / Caspian region are weak and have fairly rubbish rulers. I think I'm probably settling with Mazandaran for a few reasons (good school, good income, young monarch with high stats) but it's taken a while to get this far. I definitely want to do a Shia Rum game at some point, though; most likely as Dulkadir. I would imagine it's going to suck complete rear end diplomatically, but OTOH QQ will probably be nice to you after you convert. Having to take on the OE and/or Mamluks without the other one giving assistance will be an interesting experience.
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Nov 17, 2017 18:57
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I might have just got lucky with the Timurids not exactly thriving but forming Persia seems much easier now if you get there quickly. The Timurids (any not any of their vassals) hold most of the provinces you need so if you catch them while most of their vassals are disloyal you can just completely ignore the vassal territory and bait the Timurid armies into attacking into mountains. You no longer need to fight QQ before forming Persia, so they can be a decent ally.
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Nov 18, 2017 09:24
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Dance Officer posted:Forming Persia was not particularly hard to begin with. Start as Timurids, release and play as Persia. I should have said while starting as a minor, but in any case QQ was always a poor choice for forming Persia as they were (and still are) disallowed from forming without changing their government.
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Nov 18, 2017 12:12
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Sanction holy war is my new favourite thing in the whole game, allahu akbar, who the gently caress needs diplomats
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Nov 18, 2017 15:26
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Flavius Belisarius posted:Are middle eastern nations still viable to play as without the new expansion? The last one I got was Cossacks. Yes they're still fine with just the new map setup and trade goods. You can still use the new governments, you just don't get all the features; but Feudal Theocracy still gives you ToTTF and missionary stuff, for example. Has anyone else noticed the AI going completely brain dead more often now? I have had a 25k allied Mamluk army sitting in one of my provinces doing nothing for like 2 years while we're running around fighting the Ottomans.
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Nov 18, 2017 22:58
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Because it's extremely relevant to my most recent game: the state system is cool and good but it's so loving annoying when you're a duchy and only have 5 states allowed in the early game. It takes 300 development to promote to a kingdom, but you can easily be bumping up against the state limit with half of that. It makes the early game as some minors even more tedious because you can quickly get to a point where your returns from taking additional provinces go to virtually nothing since you can't state them.
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Nov 19, 2017 10:45
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tqilamknbrd posted:So as far as I can tell you keep the feudal theocracy gov type if you convert to another religious group, can't wait to see if I can abuse it by becoming coptic or jewish. Coptic Feudal Theocracy sounds goddamn terrifying and most of the good candidates to form Persia are near a bunch of Coptic provinces. And Rassids would also be a good choice to rush into Ethiopia.
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Nov 19, 2017 16:12
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I don't know why you're getting so many piety events, the only time I had enough piety to spare to click buttons was when I was throwing out constant holy wars as Persia, events didn't help much. In spite of all of the nice things Islam got I still feel like effectively having a large chunk of your ability to convert provinces removed (especially other Islamic faiths that you can't placate a bit with Dhimmi tolerance) is a huge problem.
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Nov 19, 2017 23:52
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Sephyr posted:Do you need MoH for the drill troops option and to improve advisors? It's not showing for me. Yeah they're part of the paid content which is basically: Army professionalism and drilling New government buttons (Iqta, Mamluk government, Feudal Theocracy, Ottoman pashas / janissaries) Islamic Schools and the "convert piety to manpower / corruption reduction" buttons
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Nov 20, 2017 09:35
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Albania being guaranteed by Venice is pretty big, as well, I haven't seen the OE lose that war but it does tie them up for a bit as Albania is usually also guaranteed by or allied to Hungary. Except of course every time I try to do a Rum game the OE completely owns the entire Balkans in about 15 years.
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Nov 20, 2017 10:27
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Fister Roboto posted:One thing I really want them to change is the battle formation algorithms. As it is, there's no way to take advantage of having lots of cavalry without stupid fiddly micromanagement. Let's say you're attacking an army that has a width of 10, and your army has 10 infantry and 10 cavalry. What will happen is that your 10 infantry will line up in front of the enemy's line, four of your cavalry regiments will go on the flanks, and the other six cavalry regiments will do literally nothing. To make matters worse, if you have a 50% inf/cav ration, you'll instantly get the tactics penalty when your infantry take damage. If you actually want your army to fight effectively, you need to split your infantry and cavalry and make sure the cavalry arrive a day before the infantry. It's really dumb and it makes cavalry bonuses a lot less useful than they should be. Does it really loving work like this? Why the hell doesn't it put max cav on the front line and have infantry reinforce from the centre as appropriate? That would seem to be incredibly obvious.
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Nov 21, 2017 22:07
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vyelkin posted:So how's the new expansion? If you just mean all the new content, DLC or no, it's great. I'm having significantly more fun than I had right after MoH hit. If you mean "is the DLC good value" then the answer is probably no as the paid content amounts to a few buttons you can press to make Muslims stronger in various ways, and army professionalism, which isn't really an interesting mechanic at all and is very transparently meant to be part of the core game due to its role as "the thing that makes mercenaries not broken"
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Nov 21, 2017 22:42
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Detheros posted:I don't care if the Ottomans are weak, this still feels pretty drat good. What was your strategy for this? I'm not exactly having difficulties but the Ottomans don't seem to be having trouble in any of my games so far and the Mamluks always seem to be wildly behind on mil tech.
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Nov 22, 2017 17:38
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For some reason I didn't even consider allying Hungary etc., though I did consider the truce break. Weirdly he didn't seem to get warned by the OE (which happens to me every single time) and so was able to take some of Dulkadir's provinces.
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Nov 22, 2017 18:39
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So I just got the "recently broke a promise to give land" thing even though I did actually give land. Did they make it so that you actually have to give the 'correct' amount of land in order to avoid this penalty?
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Nov 22, 2017 22:02
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:This has been a thing since Cossacks. The AI wants their fair share if you promise them land. If you let them do all the heavy lifting and then take most of the rewards for yourself, they're gonna be pissed. There have been several additions to this mechanic since it was introduced and you could previously avoid most of the penalties associated with not giving territory by giving just a single province. An AI wouldn't break their alliance unless you went below 30 trust, and you wouldn't get the "can't call in allies with promises of land" penalty unless you actually gave 0 provinces to someone that you had promised territory to. But this whole mechanic is so dumb in terms of how war participation is calculated that people generally just try to exploit the gently caress out of it since it seems to be based on how badly you cripple yourself during a war and doesn't actually measure how meaningful your contribution was.
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Nov 22, 2017 23:18
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The devs constantly post to say that they do actually read everything on the suggestion forums and a lot of good suggestions there have been put into the game, though it's mostly map and flavour changes as far as I am aware.
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Nov 23, 2017 22:45
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Poil posted:I kinda like that the Mamluks aren't instantly folding the minute the Ottermans are looking at them. They're still utterly screwed as the Ottomans have much better military from superior national ideas, development and the whole Janissary events backing them up. But it's nice that it takes a little longer. Don't the Janissary events no longer exist as they get Janissaries as a special "per state" recruit similar to Banners? It's actually kind of neat that the OE's design (and the AI's idea sets) is such that they have a strong army early game but will be hugely outclassed once everyone's filled their 3rd idea group and have all their NIs unlocked.
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Nov 24, 2017 00:32
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I'm now entirely convinced that the army AI has been broken somehow, I've seen more instances of "that's loving stupid" when it comes to AI army movements in a week of playing than I have in the previous 6 months. Every time I play I see a frozen army or the AI completely abandoning nearly complete sieges for no reason.
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Nov 24, 2017 18:15
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reignonyourparade posted:At one point it was possible to ditch empire of china if you got polish culture and Magnate rebels but I don't know if that's still the case. Magnates apparently got fixed so they can't change your government type any more
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Nov 25, 2017 09:49
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Having hosed around a lot with most of the new nations in the Middle East, I think I like Khorasan the best. In spite of being one of the weakest Timurid vassals, your starting ruler is a total badass and you have many cores on Timurids and your fellow vassals which makes the knife fighting over the Timurid corpse so much more entertaining. You also get a morale bonus in your starting ideas which is always fantastic. Another Person posted:That you cannot simply lose the Emperor of China through administrative fuckery really bothers me. I just wanted to do the really dumb tagswitching run. That you can't disband the Empire, or 'upgade' out of it. But then the game is not designed around my really dumb gimmick runs so I can't be too upset about it really, I guess. If I could find a way to make the AI declare upon me to take it back, I would not be too bothered, but I find it incredibly unlikely that I will form Yuan, and then Ming will feel safe declaring back upon me to take it back. I only need it for a day, but it is a mechanic that you get for life. I think the fact that the unique government you get for being EoC is actually a bit crap is extremely stupid, much like most of the stuff surrounding the EoC system.
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Nov 26, 2017 00:03
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Sometimes the game is just nice to you. I randomly got that Sufi event which gives -15% development cost, on one of the two most well-suited provinces I own for development, right at the time when I was thinking "now it's time to dump all these dip points I've been saving and pop the Rennaisance"
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Nov 26, 2017 16:33
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I think they're bugged at the moment or something.
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Nov 27, 2017 00:00
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Man, there is some ultra bullshit you can pull off with all of the new tag changes and decisions introduced with CoC. Both the "adopt Mamluk government" and "reform Timurids" decisions let you inherit cores from the previously on-map tags so theoretically you can avoid coring huge amounts of territory by handing provinces to vassals and only coring the provinces you need to own for the appropriate decisions (you can then diplo annex said vassals at zero cost since you have cores) or otherwise breaking up those tags by having them split between multiple other tags (mostly relevant to Timurids). Forming Timurids also gives you a huge swathe of permaclaims in line with the height of the Timurid Empire and then once you've absorbed all of that territory you can tag switch to Mughals and get free permaclaims on all of India! There's then the optional mega bonus of getting broken by pagan rebels so you can then go conquer enough of China to form Yuan but that's kind of a huge pain in the rear end. The only downside of this is that it sticks you with the Iqta government (which isn't even that bad) but if you're willing to do culture fuckery you can form Rum or Persia afterwards (forming Persia should be fairly easy if you culture shift to Persian ASAP immediately after forming Timurids you can click the button as soon as you form Mamluks, and most of your power base is going to be in Iran for the majority of the early game anyway so it makes sense).  This is what you get in terms of claims + cores after doing all that poo poo, you actually have an unbroken line of permaclaims from Egypt to Bengal  Another fun thing about this is that it moves your capital to Cairo, i.e. Africa, so you can make all of India into trade companies. RabidWeasel fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Nov 27, 2017 |
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Nov 27, 2017 18:41
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Tahirovic posted:Because you can't sell "expanded army tradition" as an expansion feature. Professionalism as a separate bar is silly, it already kinda suffers from lack of integration. Have you seen any link between the Nobility estate and it? I've had at least one event which let you choose between pissed off nobility and professionalism or happy nobility and AT instead. That's about it.
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Nov 28, 2017 09:53
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Pellisworth posted:Friend gifted me the latest DLC and I played it some over the weekend, did a Rassids->Yemen start. You can still convert moderately well with just Feudal Theocracy and various other modifiers which can be managed (edicts, clergy estate, inquisitor advisor). Number of missionaries is typically a bigger restriction on your conversion speed, rather than missionary power, so getting +1 from your government type is extremely powerful. And you can get full permanent 100 legalism bonuses along with the corruption reduction every 5 years in exchange for not worrying about mysticism at all, which seems like a drat good deal to me. I do agree that because of DoWs impacting the slider it's far too hard to actually choose to go for mysticism over legalism. I feel like this might get revisited in the next patch. Rassids advice: start expanding into SE Africa ASAP, Arabia is just going to cause AE problems. Once you have like 5 gold provinces the game gets a lot easier.
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Nov 28, 2017 22:05
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Geisladisk posted:
Yeah this is one of those things which makes no sense and I wish that they would just rework the last 2 reforms so that you actually have an incentive to press the button. I feel the same way about Japan, if you're just playing to be efficient actually forming Japan is a huge idiot trap because if you don't you can make new Diamyo vassals
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Nov 30, 2017 13:28
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canepazzo posted:Going for Prince of Egypt, seems to be going ok - just wondering if it's any easier as a monarchy (i.e. tanking Republican Tradition till despotism -> monarchy), or if Republic is fine. Mostly due to getting more diplomatic relations, more diplomats, possibilities of PUs... Thanks for reminding me I need to try and figure out the easiest way to do a Shia (or Ibadi) republic game. I guess I could always do a custom nation. The 0.5% Republic Tradition bonus is huge.
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Dec 2, 2017 14:45
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TorakFade posted:Same can be said about estates, but people rave on about estates because they can get 50MP every 20 years if you remember to do it - and yeah I know it can be 100MP but they have to be loyal AND influential which either you have not much control over, or you have to pay some way or another to get It's 150 if they have 75+ influence which is fairly easy to swing, just hire some advisors you don't actually need. Unless you get one of the really negative estate events at an extremely bad time you'll be fine either way. Starting most games with 150 admin and mil points and a free general is the poo poo.
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Dec 3, 2017 10:24
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reignonyourparade posted:Influence boosting estate events are actively more likely at 70 influence IIRC, that's why most people don't bother with the 150. A lot of those events are actually good in the balance of things, though! Most of them give some kind of benefit as well as the changes to estate influence / happiness. Once you have lots of provinces you can just add / remove estates as needed to prevent bad things from happening or to keep them happy for the sweet bonuses. You very rarely need to sit through an extended period of unhappy estates.
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Dec 3, 2017 12:04
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oddium posted:holy moly i want to do a third way mughals now but the Legalism/Mysticism flip suuuuuuuuuuucks. i'm never going to be anywhere near mysticism with all these heathen wars. goodbye missionary strength + morale........ Pro tip Baluchistan has exactly enough development that you can shift to Baluchi as Hormuz if you don't conquer any other stated provinces before then. And also Hormuz can flip Ibadi if you send a missionary to the right province on day 1 and then accept rebel demands. If you just want to do Third Way you might want to forget about going Mughals since Oman gets the Feudal Theocracy government which makes conversions a lot easier, their NIs are pretty awful though. If you're dedicated enough to a bit of rebel fuckery you might have an easier time with Rassids => Yemen since their ideas are fantastic (other than no RCC) and you can start scum until their pretender rebel stack has a god monarch attached. As a Feudal Theocracy I actually prefer legalism over mysticism anyway, +1 missionary +1% missionary strength is more than good enough as a baseline for conversions.
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Dec 3, 2017 18:14
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oddium posted:you gotta start as one of the three ibadi nations to be eligible for the achievement and i ain't sticking with Boaty McBoatface's ideas, or their lack of permanent claims on one of the richest regions in the world Boo, achievements are dumb and bad. I really thought you could convert mid game, but I guess the idiot purists don't want you to be able to do it as Ottomans or w/e In that case yeah you start as Oman and go for Mughals definitely. You can go Mughals => Mamluks => Persia to get that conversion chance back but even if you're a god tier player you're not going to be doing that particularly quickly. RabidWeasel fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Dec 3, 2017 |
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Dec 3, 2017 19:26
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It depends on a lot of factors but manufactories are always good even on the shittiest provinces, it's just that unless you're playing a tier 1 power from the start you probably won't have the cash spare to put down 500 ducats on a low value province during the part of the game before you unlock the manufactories for better goods. Livestock does end up being worth quite a lot since it has several price increase events so if you ever are in the position to build a farm estate do it on a livestock province.
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Dec 3, 2017 22:10
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In the real world you're almost certainly going to do better in the long run if you invest that cash in another stack of mercenaries so you can go conquer more poo poo. But that's more of an issue with mercs than anything else.
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Dec 4, 2017 10:19
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Manufactories as a whole certainly don't need a buff, though it might be interesting if all of the different manufactories worked slightly differently so they're not just effectively tech level unlocks for each trade good.
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Dec 4, 2017 10:28
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Poil posted:Might just be the current game that's been going great but the AI hasn't filled its provinces with useless docks and other junk buildings lately. It is pretty drat awesome! I've hardly had to demolish any buildings at all. They fixed the AI so it actually builds poo poo which makes sense now. Which also makes the AI ungodly rich, but there you go.
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Dec 4, 2017 20:51
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