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Jazerus
May 24, 2011


just break up asia into different subcontinents for TC purposes. that's really the issue here, right? none of the other continents are as impaired by the same-continent rule on TCs as asia simply because it's really big. so, cut it up so that, e.g. a japan conquering pieces of india can treat those provinces as TC provinces like any other outside colonial overlord would. it's not even ahistorical, except insofar as it didn't happen during the EU period for other reasons.

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Jazerus
May 24, 2011


there are several circumstances under which you might want to collect rather than steer, but europe's position in the trade network insulates you from some of them. the most obvious is cape - if you hold a monopoly on cape, which you should in most games, but can't steer that trade home, you ought to collect. the further upstream your home node is, the more sense it makes to collect at convenient points until you can safely move your home node.

Jazerus
May 24, 2011


forts are too expensive, and they're always going to be too expensive because later on you need better forts to get the same effectiveness. maintain them at borders, at chokepoints, and on important big islands like honshu or java; the money you'd spend on further depth is better off spent anywhere else unless you're seriously expecting a war to the death with ming or the ottomans

Jazerus
May 24, 2011


Deceitful Penguin posted:

The only reason I will never, ever, earn any of these cheevos is that I refuse to play historical lucky nations because I find the very notion of them being required retarded beyond belief

Yes, this is exactly what I want from my game: to already boost already powerful nations so they don't diverge more from history, the whole point of the game!

Also

Did y'all know that the only way I've found to rejigger around trade goods in uncolonized provinces is to put a migratory tribe near it and then migrate it back and forth until you get the one you want? That combining them with the OPM bankrupt -> change culture thing is the only way to spread/start minor cultures that usually get colonized away like Aboriginee and Inuit? That you can recreate dead tags by giving them cores on land then returning it? (Forget if I had to do religion/culture changes but I did those as well usually)

The console is dead fun really, if not quite as much as in CK2

luckies are absolutely essential if you want to face opponents with a chance of beating you after a certain amount of blobbing, and it's best if they start out already strong

france constantly making GBS threads out 5-6 shock generals in the 1400s sucks though, but i dunno if that even happens much anymore

Jazerus
May 24, 2011


IncredibleIgloo posted:

I think the game peaked around 1.19 or so. There have been a lot of nice quality of life changes since then, but frankly most of the design choices have been questionable at best. Each cool QoL feature is accompanied by a design choice that makes the game that much less fun to play.

what a coincidence, i froze my version at 1.19 and i've never seen a compelling reason to unfreeze

Jazerus
May 24, 2011


Poil posted:

I know, I set them as special interest last century. :(

they're very unreliable unfortuately, and it gets worse

in my experience, a vassal will fabricate a claim on any given province exactly once, and gently caress you if you don't take them from their current owner before the claim expires

Jazerus
May 24, 2011


Jean Pony posted:

We all know warriors don't read books, and this would-be conquerer would like to read less estate events as well.

Most of the estate events are incredibly tedious. I really don't care about the options other than avoiding any one faction getting above 80 influence, and ofc rather not lose MP...

I find that the tediousness comes from having to read a mini-novel and parsing the implications of each option. It really feels like it gets in the way of the game I'm trying to play.

If the events could have some graphical representation of the estates, like there are birds for dip and paper for adm, it'd go a long way. If you also made the influence modifier red when accepting would take you over the disaster treshold it'd be even better.

But maybe an even simpler solution is to rework esates entirely...

source your quotes

Jazerus
May 24, 2011


Fister Roboto posted:

I think all those decisions you listed are a lot simpler than handling estates. I've got over 2000 hours played and I think I'm pretty good at managing my empires, but estates still feel like a big needlessly complicated mess. A lot of the time I just end up ignoring them as much as I can because the rewards just aren't worth the hassle.

you never actually engaged with the system for any length of time, then

there isn't anything complicated about them - trade is more difficult to understand than estates, even. give high manpower and worthless provinces to nobles, high tax and worthless provinces to clergy, and high trade provinces to merchants. click buttons every few years for rewards and don't go over 80 influence unless it's just for a year or so. that's, uh, it. that's all you ever needed to do.

Jazerus
May 24, 2011


some of the reward buttons give estate influence, i can't imagine a situation where you're consistently at the 50 point level even with the minimal effort of pressing most of the buttons whenever you happen to remember them

i didn't mean to be a jerk but i just don't see what's complicated about it compared to every other system. war can't be summarized in a paragraph like the one you wrote, but there is not much more to old-style estates than what i wrote. the process i described isn't suboptimal as far as i know - what else needs to be done that i didn't describe?

Jazerus
May 24, 2011


1.19 now illegal???

the eu has gone too far this time

Jazerus
May 24, 2011


Arcturas posted:

Hey, what's the rule of thumb on collecting vs. steering trade? I've got a Portugal game going where I have 50-75% in most of the relevant colonial trade nodes (Caribbean, Ivory Coast, etc.), and about 70% in Seville thanks to a lucky PU over Castille. Should I keep steering everything upstream to Seville? Or should I be collecting farther upstream in all of the various nodes, and collecting the leftovers in Seville?

only collect when you don't have an effective route home and you'd otherwise lose out on a big chunk of trade

iberians in particular will never really have a reason to collect with a merchant, everything naturally flows to your home node

Jazerus
May 24, 2011


Prav posted:

i always maintain as many colonies as i can possibly afford.

now i haven't run the numbers but i suspect they pay themselves back sometime in the late 23rd century.

new world colonies in the right places can yield ludicrous tariffs as long as you oppress them with tariff raises every time the event fires

caribbean, mexico, etc. should basically always pay back rather quickly

Jazerus
May 24, 2011


Groogy posted:

tis y we cant hav nice things tho

i mean playing like that doesn't affect anybody except the person doing it, and presumably they're enjoying doing it, so who cares

Jazerus
May 24, 2011


Firebatgyro posted:

Not picking Quantity first in Northern Italy is actually extremely right. You should definitely be picking diplo or influence first. The number of troops you have doesn't matter if you can only conquer 1 province every 20 years because of AE.

lol if you aren't no-cbing granada at some point early on and picking exploration first as a non-OPM northern italian tag (the OPMs probably can't take granada before castile does)

Jazerus
May 24, 2011


Shroud posted:

I love Paradox, but they showed us the heady heights of sheer laziness when they copy-pasted the events from EU3 to the release version of EU4.

eu4 never pretended to be anything more than eu3 with a better engine, and part of the reason it was so good at launch was because it was still able to use most of eu3's content

Jazerus
May 24, 2011


Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:

The monarch points system was completely new for EU4, and it had the new national ideas system too, so it still felt pretty different from EU3 in a lot of ways. I remember it being a big improvement right off the bat and thinking that I'm never going back to Divine Wind again (and I didn't).

oh absolutely, trade/revamped idea system/monarch points right out of the gate made the game flow much better than eu3 where gold was the uni-resource

however paradox had no need to redo a huge swathe of map work, historical research, event creation, etc., they simply had to adapt it within the augmented ruleset

Jazerus
May 24, 2011


Groogy posted:

Originally Jake wanted it to be -20% power costs but I lowered it after I crunched some numbers on it. Though I do get the "it feels like it's nothing". Small numbers ain't sexy and that's something we have to think about in future stuff. Hence I don't wanna lower RT gain modifiers but find new ways to kick you back a bit maybe.

if innovativeness interconnected with a couple of other systems too in small ways it might feel less inconsequential. not sure what systems those should be - production, to represent the economic benefits of being a 'tech hub', and tradition to represent its beneficial effects on the military, maybe?

one of the persistent issues with the smaller dlc mechanics is their isolated nature - interconnected systems are more interesting than a bunch of individual systems. i would care more about innovativeness if it also made my economy better and my army stronger, even if those effects were as small as the power cost reduction

Jazerus
May 24, 2011


Rynoto posted:

Wait why would anyone want to claim this.

Note: My only knowledge about Galicia is that it's in Spain.
E: Also legitimately curious.

galicia is the last remnant of the hispanian celts of the pre-roman era, at least nominally, so like the basques and catalans they're derided by castilian supremacists

Jazerus
May 24, 2011


Groke posted:

And yes, Aragon is completely loving nuts now. Permaclaims all over the drat place. France, Italy, North Africa, whatever.

If you want to be extra OP, do as I did in my current run and start off by protecting Byzantium from themselves (noCB, force vassalization), ally the Mamluks and destroy the Ottos.

no CB vassalizing byzantium is a pro strategy for literally anybody that can see europe at the start and land more than 5k troops, or who can finagle the necessary military access overland. i can't really think of any reason not to do it now that the ottomans are not quite so scary as they used to be. constantinople and a pile of claims are huge prizes for such an easy war

Jazerus
May 24, 2011


Fister Roboto posted:

I'm not saying they have to be exactly the same, just that they should probably make the differences not make them significantly weaker. By all means keep factions, but they should be roughly on par with estates in terms of what you get out of them if they're meant to replace them.

yeah merchant republics haven't been touched much since they were nerfed years ago. they could probably do with another pass - hansa and genoa games were always some of my favorites in early eu4.

Jazerus
May 24, 2011


ZypherIM posted:

So I find colonizing as a smaller nation really annoying, and I wonder if it is just not leveraging colonial nations well. Here is a perfect example:

Colonizing the carribean is insanely profitable, all the provinces are like 10 dev and have high value trade goods. By the time a colonial nation forms, you're probably getting like 2 ducats from them. After forming a CN, that basically craters to near nothing, which really hampers a nation that doesn't already have a strong economic muscle. Sitting on just 4 colonies seems like it'd be an extremely poor choice based on how valuable the land is as well, which ends up pushing me into a really rough phase after my first CN forms.

Advice on how to mitigate this, or is it just a "deal with it and know you'll eventually benefit big" thing?

always raise tariffs

your CNs start at something like 2% tariffs, raising them by 1% will give you 50% more tariff income

usually you get a couple of tariff raise events pretty quickly but you can do it manually if you really need the income

Jazerus
May 24, 2011


Terrible Opinions posted:

Why is the Hwan empire not a formable?

it would grant way too many cores to be fair

Jazerus
May 24, 2011


it's totally unsurprising that eu4 under ddrjake would remove the current estate system and replace it with something less tied into the rest of the mechanics of the game. if you watch him play it's obviously the part of the game that he is least interested in, something that he just can't bother to do correctly even though it's easy and adds layers of decision-making to province development and events

Jazerus
May 24, 2011


SirPhoebos posted:

Don't know how mothballing work, either for ships or forts.

Restarted the campaign, and did a little better money-wise (I watched what ships I was building and didn't go all-out on advisors). My initial moves looked pretty straight forward: I got an alliance with Castille and England, got a claim on Tangiers and used Castille to win my war with Morocco. I'm not sure what I do after that. I got claims in Galacia and Leon but seeing Castille's army in action makes me leery of taking them on. Do I just wait for the truce to expire to keep expanding into Africa?

EDIT: how should I balance using Monarch points to develop provinces vs teching up?

there are mothball buttons when you select a fleet or a province with a fort. press them and your fleet/fort becomes effectively useless until un-mothballed, but you only pay half-maintenance. the early game for a mid-sized nation is basically an optimization puzzle where you have to determine when and how long you should go into a deficit on having a fully-geared military. you can ramp back up to full effectiveness within a few months, so it's not really a good idea to waste money just to be ready for war at any time.

for a european nation, developing is not a priority. you won't get the powerful secondary benefit of getting a new institution quickly by developing a province a bunch, because you're european and will get most of the institutions quite quickly after they activate without needing to develop them yourself. tech and ideas are much more important in general than development, because they provide broad bonuses to your whole nation while you can always seize more development through war, though of course that also has point costs.

Jazerus fucked around with this message at 18:20 on Nov 12, 2019

Jazerus
May 24, 2011


manufactory types are back :toot:

Jazerus
May 24, 2011


Edgar Allen Ho posted:

Also thinking about EU3 mods, I really loved the alternate starts in EU3+, are there any good mods for that in 4?

They were like imported CK2 saves that had been gone over and edited by hand, but without having to actually, you know, do that.

no, unfortunately no one bothered to maintain the altstart mods

rip kingdom of god start

Jazerus
May 24, 2011


i can't imagine how folks are playing ethiopia without colonizing in southeast asia or the americas. trade routed from malacca to the cape and colony tariffs are the only way you're going to be able to afford an army big enough to deal with being neighbors with a hostile ottomans

plus it is always good to have many points of contact with european powers. puts you into diplomatic range with more potential allies. i'd even suggest grabbing a piece of ireland if you can.

Jazerus fucked around with this message at 15:06 on Mar 30, 2020

Jazerus
May 24, 2011


SirPhoebos posted:

Question for playing Spain: how to I keep the former Aztec and Mayan territories from exploding into revolts every ten years?

other than a glacial expansion pace that will end up with the region being stolen by some other european power, you don't. the rebels are generally pretty weak no matter their stack size (though i haven't played the most recent patch) so you just keep an army in the colonies to mop up as necessary.

Jazerus
May 24, 2011


what the hell is wrong with the AI???

for reference i haven't hardly played since 1.19, i'm currently on 1.29 since 1.30 is having its own set of AI problems, and i swear the AI has gotten unbelievably cowardly since i last played

so it's the mid-1600s. i've finally gotten together a pan-european alliance to beat the poo poo out of the ottomans, as a united italy with a byz vassal, with the ottomans having advanced basically to their historical maximum right outside of vienna. they're scary but italy+austria+france(that inherited castile)+minors outweighs them pretty handily...or we would if my allies weren't intent on white-peacing out just as soon as the war starts to turn against the ottos. i've got the bosphorus blockaded, we're advancing along the north side of the black sea into my territory on the east side of the ottomans to beat them up, and all of a sudden france white peaces on me. they have high war enthusiasm, no war exhaustion, no occupations, we've only been fighting for a few years, there is absolutely no reason for them to quit.

this happens every time i try to fight the ottomans on equal terms. i simply can't get my allies to stay in long enough to actually get the war score i need to deal a crippling blow.

Jazerus
May 24, 2011


turns out the ottomans managed to sneak around north germany and occupy paris. instead of just waiting for us to relieve them they gave up.

lmao well played ottomans

now the austrians are running around fighting rebels for the ottomans. this is starting to be funny instead of infuriating

Jazerus fucked around with this message at 02:52 on Aug 28, 2020

Jazerus
May 24, 2011


awesmoe posted:

is it just me, or does 'block settlement growth' in your subject menus do jack poo poo? I have to build a church in bani but carribias (inherited from portugal, now my subject, in case that affects things???) has been developing that place for approx the last hundred years and shows no sign of slowing down even at 27 dev with zero buildings
might just release them then fight to take it back - but I'm gonna be pretty salty about it!

it's very possible that it blocks them from assigning a colonist but doesn't obligate them to remove one already at work. try not blocking settlement growth to see if they'll switch the colonist somewhere else

Jazerus
May 24, 2011


Sri.Theo posted:

Ah dammit. I’m new to the game and thought I’d seen people on YouTube do that.


Problem is England would destroy my fleet in a second. Probably shouldn’t have started my first game in Ironman mode.

it was changed a few patches ago, if you were watching an older video then yeah it used to be allowed. i still get armies exiled by this once in a while due to old habits.

realistically if the english received word of the french mustering troops and boats, then they started sailing toward scotland, the english navy would deploy in force and it would all end in tears for the french without any formal declaration of war

Jazerus
May 24, 2011


Kaiser Schnitzel posted:

Is there any way to reduce attrition for armies at sea? Shipping armies across oceans is....brutal.

if you are playing one of a few nations (castile, england, some others), have naval ideas, or build governor general's mansion trade company buildings (the only realistic path for most runs), you can recruit a percentage of your forcelimit as marines, who don't take attrition on boats and can walk off the boats onto hostile/neutral territory much faster. also, they reinforce from your sailor pool so any damage they take in battle won't draw on your manpower. however, it will take thousands of gold to build enough mansions to have even a halfway-respectable stack of marines unless your forcelimit is sky high, in which case you've probably got so much manpower you can laugh off the attrition anyway.

otherwise, you've got to eat it. you have a leg up on real life imperialists though, european armies that tried to carry out operations in the new world often suffered 50%+ attrition, although that was upon arrival rather than on the sea itself

there are ways to minimize the time you spend on the actual ocean tiles, though. unless you really need that army on the eastern seaboard fast, you want to always take the southern route to the new world where you sail past africa to brazil and then up the south american coast, or maybe the northern route past iceland and greenland. coastal tiles inflict a more reasonable 1% attrition. similarly, if you're crossing the indian ocean, include as many islands in your route as you can, or actually sail the coast of india and SE asia. the pacific is really dangerous unless you go past the bering strait. fortunately, even frozen coasts count for reducing attrition despite this making basically no sense

Jazerus fucked around with this message at 07:21 on Sep 3, 2020

Jazerus
May 24, 2011


Gort posted:

It's the absence of a feature. It's like how in Stellaris reinforcing a fleet is one click, while reinforcing an army is 100 clicks.

unpaid soldiers tend to become, uh, feisty. it's silly enough that you can even sit on low maintenance at all

Jazerus
May 24, 2011


Edgar Allen Ho posted:

If you start as one of the two big daimyos (one is Hosokawa, don't remember the other) it's pretty easy to outstrip the competition.



Betismaraka: worst NIs in the game?

they're from an alternate universe where sailors matter

Jazerus
May 24, 2011


Red Bones posted:

If you have the innovativeness DLC (rule brittannia or something ?), that mechanic is actually another big gain from taking innovative ideas. Every 10 points is a 1% reduction on all power costs, and you get a lot of events that give it if you take innovative. You can already be sitting at like 50/100 innovativeness (so a 5% discount on every single monarch power cost in game) by the 1550s or so. I dunno if I have ever gotten it to 100/100 but I think I've gotten it to 80/100 in late game before.

i don't know why i never thought about innovativeness being tied to, uh, innovative ideas. i thought it was basically impossible to get it high enough to matter.

are there any other corners of the mechanics that make innovativeness actually be a meaningful bonus other than the idea set?

Jazerus
May 24, 2011


Kaiser Schnitzel posted:

I had been trying to have enough (1 per 50 dev) to get the full army tradition decay bonus, but it seems like that becomes completely unaffordable when you start getting to level 8 forts. Looks like it’s time to clean them up a bit-some are relics of border gore and if the army trad bonus isn’t worth it, they can definitely be rationalized at this point.

army tradition doesn't matter, you're prussia so your dudes will be space marines no matter what you do

Jazerus
May 24, 2011


skasion posted:

Guarantee independence is ironically just another relations booster to put you over 190 so you can vassalize a minor

don't worry, you'll be very independent when you're a vassal

Jazerus
May 24, 2011


skasion posted:

You can set provinces to "Desired" or something in one of the tabs lower down on the diplomacy screen. If your vassals neighbor these provinces they will sometimes fabricate claims on them.

yeah the thing that trips people up is you HAVE to do this to get your vassals to fab claims - basically you're giving them permission to wreck your relations with that nation

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Jazerus
May 24, 2011


if you don't have the DLC, then the way it should work is vassals will occasionally fabricate claims, if they feel like it, by themselves. however i would not be shocked if you told me that the original pre-DLC behavior was gone entirely and they just can't fabricate claims at all without it.

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