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Shard posted:Dragon Age combat in 2 and 3 is boring. Just holding a drat button the entire time. Felt like playing a MMO. Yeah for some reason the stated goal of "faster, more interactive combat" was achieved by making autoattacking faster and not auto. Great.
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Dec 5, 2023 17:39
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Yeah, the main thing I remember from DA2 and Inquisition combat is every enemy feeling like a damage sponge, but that could be my bad builds
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Dec 5, 2023 17:57
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Shard posted:Dragon Age combat in 2 and 3 is boring. Just holding a drat button the entire time. Felt like playing a MMO. I felt da2 was fine? Like it was at least much better than DAI, it's just the encounter design was so rear end there was never anything that really showed it off. I prefer turn based personally, but the thought of playing another game with DAI's combat is horrible. It felt just sluggish and unresponsive and mages felt nerfed and basically lacking anything cool. Just a miserable game.
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Dec 5, 2023 17:59
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Turn-based is really only tolerable to me in a game like Persona 5 or Yakuza LAD, where it's your party and maybe 3 enemies max. BG3 has way too many encounters where it's your party and like 10 enemies, each of whom gets their turn to run around or do whatever while you're just twiddling your thumbs. I don't remember having a problem with DAI's combat, it felt to me like your basic third-person action game combat which is what I tend to enjoy.
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Dec 5, 2023 18:03
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Eimi posted:I felt da2 was fine? Like it was at least much better than DAI, it's just the encounter design was so rear end there was never anything that really showed it off. I prefer turn based personally, but the thought of playing another game with DAI's combat is horrible. It felt just sluggish and unresponsive and mages felt nerfed and basically lacking anything cool. Just a miserable game. If there is any benefit to Dreadwolf taking all this time to come out (as if it will come out...), it's that they probably aren't just going to make DAI 2. That was always my concern. Folks loved Inquisition and I was dreading (har har) more gameplay like that. But it's been so long, I can't imagine they'll just copy DAI's combat anymore. I've said it before but DA2 is the only DA game with fun combat to me. Origins was meh and Inquisition was boring and lifeless.
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Dec 5, 2023 18:07
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Dreadwolf has been fully restarted at least once and several key staff members have left. Whatever the game is intended to be it's likely being bogged down in design by committee as no one is willing to take the helm and make strong decisions for risk of being accused of any problems with the game.
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Dec 5, 2023 18:12
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I thought DAI's combat system was fine overall, it can feel grindy but I also have no issues with MMO style combat in general. Playing with the no healing potions challenge was also pretty interesting. Out of the RTWP systems I've experienced I think only FF7R had a substantially better feel to it.
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Dec 5, 2023 18:23
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Eimi posted:I felt da2 was fine? Like it was at least much better than DAI, it's just the encounter design was so rear end there was never anything that really showed it off. But yeah, the encounter design just made it play lovely. It's for example neat that DA2 had an actually working aggro system. But when the game constantly spawns in dudes right on top of your squishy mage that you positioned at the back, then it's going to feel like the aggro system doesn't matter or not even work. Inquisition was okay. But I think what most DA:O fans' grip with it was, was the focus on it being a third-person action game. As opposed to there being more tactical elements to the combat. The alpha-footage leak seemed like they doubled down on that with Dreadwolf. With would neatly fit with the trend-chasing, God War's success and the 2018 reboot.
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Dec 5, 2023 18:41
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DAI had a tactical camera which was essentially worthless. I mean sure I used killallhostiles a bunch in DAO replays but the initial run was fine(TM) and none of the "improvements" in the sequels actually made fighting better to me. It was also way easier to fix the worst parts of combat with mods in the first game than in the sequels IIRC.
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Dec 5, 2023 18:56
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Yes, the "evolution" towards action gameplay didn't actually make the combat more dynamic or action oriented, it just made it more annoying and took away some controls.
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Dec 5, 2023 18:59
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Being a rogue in DAO and awkwardly shuffling around behind your opponents in order to get a juicy and tangible backstab animation and SFX was, as it turned out, a thousand times more satisfying and responsive than the sequels' 'oh my god you vanish in a puff of smoke?? then you reappear in another puff of smoke and stab them 20 times?? then you reappear again?? PEW PEW PEW' no arguments, this is objective truth.
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Dec 5, 2023 19:09
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Raygereio posted:DA2's combat mechanics were basically the same as Origins. Just fixed and improved upon. DA2 did not improve on the combat at all, the obsession with having something cool happen every time you press a button causes them to remove any tactical depth.
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Dec 5, 2023 19:17
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I did like the amount of juice they put into Dragon Age Inquisition. I wish things weren't so spongy. But at least DA:I isn't so drab looking from an art direction as the first game. And having a bunch of mages basically lights the screen on fire which is always fun.
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Dec 5, 2023 19:18
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SirSamVimes posted:DA2 did not improve on the combat at all, the obsession with having something cool happen every time you press a button causes them to remove any tactical depth. This is weirdly false considering Origin's combat mostly could be solved by any of the 'lol instantly paralyze the enemy', Dog's absolutely broken take down ability, Mana Clash or Storm of the Century which made combat insanely trivial. DA2 at least did things like introduce cross class combos and had more interesting combat skills overall.
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Dec 5, 2023 19:20
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DA2 also at least made all the companions feel semi-unique in battle, between Merril's blood magic, Aveline's tanking, and so on. They just needed to make Isabela actually better in combat. Origins had two Warriors with no spec which meant Alistair was basically the best by default, Leliana was better with daggers than her intended 'bard' spec since archery was so slow, and nobody used Morrigan for shapeshifting.
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Dec 5, 2023 19:24
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I think DA2's combat was probably best, followed closely by DA:I. Those were fun systems. I'm just going to guess if Dreadwolf ever comes out (lmaoooo), it's not going to be like them. You just can't capture lightning in a bottle like the "button-awesome" connection more than once...
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Dec 5, 2023 19:36
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SirSamVimes posted:DA2 did not improve on the combat at all, the obsession with having something cool happen every time you press a button causes them to remove any tactical depth. DA2's mechanics and design were a sizable step forwards from DA:O. The already mentioned cross class combos added tactical depth to the combat as it heavily encouraged you to use your whole party and have them work together. The redesign of the ability trees again added depth as you had to put some thought into what sort of build you wanted, as opposed to in DA:O where you just mindlessly selected the next one in the block of 4. And several core mechanics such as threat/aggro were fixed and actually worked. Where DA2 failed badly was the encounter design. The how & where enemies were placed/spawned in. That's the main problem of why DA2 was frustrating to play. (reuse of environments and story were other factors, but we're talking solely about combat now)
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Dec 5, 2023 19:48
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DA2 sucks rear end dude lmao
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Dec 5, 2023 19:53
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Dragon Age 2's biggest mistake was failing to actualize its own button:awesome ratio.
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Dec 5, 2023 19:54
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2 on paper has some good ideas for combat but the encounter design is so absolutely dogshit that it doesn't matter in practice, so it ends up being garbage. DAO is alright, but way too easy to completely break as some abilities just shatter the game and a lot of stuff like Shapeshifter are just totally worthless. DAI is actually pretty good once it gets going and has a lot of fun stuff to use, it just is really easy to run into something you can't handle or set up your damage inefficiently and have the game slow to a loving miserable crawl. BG3 easily obliterates all of them in terms of combat quality and honestly so does Mass Effect 3 just because it knew what it wanted to do and did it really well.
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Dec 5, 2023 20:02
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I had fun playing as a Knight-Enchanter because that was basically just a Vanguard Mage.
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Dec 5, 2023 20:07
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Raygereio posted:You don't need to jump up and down on the "hurr durr DA2 sucks" bandwagon. This thread moved past that back in 2020, or something. And come one: It's been 12 years, the pain of having spend 50 bucks on that game should have long faded away by now. I liked Dragon Age 2. It was the only game in the series where the combat was bad enough that I just turned down the difficulty just to get it over with. I only played the game for the first time a year ago, so making up a narrative about the "pain of spending 50 bucks on a game 12 years ago" is lmao. SirSamVimes fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Dec 5, 2023 |
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Dec 5, 2023 20:08
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Shard posted:Dragon Age combat in 2 and 3 is boring. Just holding a drat button the entire time. Felt like playing a MMO. I liked the DA2 and DA3 combat mainly because the combat in actual turn-based games like BG3 just takes so loving long, even if it's more interesting/challenging. It also helps to play with a controller in the case of DA3 - I had the most enjoyable experience playing the one health-stealing melee class with a controller. IMO Bioware should lean into action-RPG games, like in the ME games. Larian can do a better job at the turn-based stuff. ShakeZula posted:Turn-based is really only tolerable to me in a game like Persona 5 or Yakuza LAD, where it's your party and maybe 3 enemies max. BG3 has way too many encounters where it's your party and like 10 enemies, each of whom gets their turn to run around or do whatever while you're just twiddling your thumbs. Yeah, my average BG3 gameplay session involves doing only a handful of fights. I think it comes down to how much someone really enjoys tactical/turn-based combat. In my case I need either more frequent narrative/plot momentum, or engaging moment-to-moment gameplay.
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Dec 5, 2023 20:32
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my experience was da:o's combat: slow, deliberate, sedated* and tactical but sorta lacking in depth since its basic mechanics were, well, quite basic da2's combat: more frantic and a little more over-the-top but with surprising depth imho both were alright (i lean more towards 2 but i still appreciate da:o) if you imagine them as appealing to different genres of gameplay and, in any case, i think they're definitely giving off different enough vibes that someone's preference for one or the other might be due more to subjective taste than to reactions to mechanical improvements and/or regression *sedated as in that warriors & rogues rarely do any fancy acrobatic attacks while mage spells also tended to be rather subdued on the whole
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Dec 5, 2023 20:41
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Ytlaya posted:I liked the DA2 and DA3 combat mainly because the combat in actual turn-based games like BG3 just takes so loving long, even if it's more interesting/challenging. It also helps to play with a controller in the case of DA3 - I had the most enjoyable experience playing the one health-stealing melee class with a controller. This is pretty much exactly where I'm at. People can enjoy the turn-based combat offered by BG3, and that's fantastic! I'm glad they've found a game that really caters to their tastes. But let's not act like BG3 has made action-RPG real-time combat obsolete, especially since there are still a large amount of people (myself included) who overwhelmingly prefer it.
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Dec 5, 2023 20:42
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exquisite tea posted:Dragon Age 2's biggest mistake was failing to actualize its own button:awesome ratio. I loved that DA 2 took place in one giant city over the course of 10 years. But it failed to really do something special with that. Yakuza proved that you can do a lot by using the exact same environment over a period of time - except in its case it did it with real time lol
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Dec 5, 2023 20:48
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exquisite tea posted:Dragon Age 2's biggest mistake was failing to actualize its own button:awesome ratio. I'm not sure if this is a joke or not (but if I recall you are a DA2 liking sicko like myself  ), but I agree. It's why Legacy was a great DLC, and if the whole game was like it, it would've been an unquestionably good game.Also, I agree that a hypothetical Bioware that still made video games, could lean into the action RPG elements. It wouldn't matter a ton to me. I actually enjoyed the gameplay of all the Mass Effects and Dragon Ages a lot, and I think they're decently challenging if played on the hardest difficulty. The fun to me comes from having a challenge (in any genre of gameplay) and having a fun story with cool characters (again, in practically any genre of fiction). Bioware, at one point, did this, and how they went about doing it was irrelevant to the fact that they did it. Nichael fucked around with this message at 21:02 on Dec 5, 2023 |
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Dec 5, 2023 20:58
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ShakeZula posted:I mean the cinematic dialogue sequences in BG3 are only really noteworthy because they're such a departure from the rest of the game's art style and from other games of the type. That kind of conversation portrayal has been commonplace in other games for a long time, including in Dragon Age games. Dragon Age (and Mass Effect) have been getting away from this recently and though it's a small thing it's noticeable. Way less invested in conversations and characters when they happen from the remove of the tactical camera
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Dec 5, 2023 21:55
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Pattonesque posted:Dragon Age (and Mass Effect) have been getting away from this recently and though it's a small thing it's noticeable. Way less invested in conversations and characters when they happen from the remove of the tactical camera I like that you said “recently” as if we had any BioWare games in several years.
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Dec 6, 2023 07:28
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I didn’t like how the camera would remain at a distance for some conversations in DAI. Probably easier to animate but way less engaging visually.
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Dec 6, 2023 07:31
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The biggest issue I had with conversation in especially DA:I was that they don't flow naturally. The system they had works okay'ish when 2 people are talking. But when there's 3 or more there's always a weird pause in between camera angle switches.
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Dec 6, 2023 09:33
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Just having a lol that they could not even show of some combat animations or a monster. I'm really happy BG3 came out because this studio is probably dead even if Dreadwolf succeeds.
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Dec 6, 2023 11:42
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ApplesandOranges posted:I like that you said “recently” as if we had any BioWare games in several years. lol, well, you know, yeah exquisite tea posted:I didn’t like how the camera would remain at a distance for some conversations in DAI. Probably easier to animate but way less engaging visually. yeah it's a small thing but it really limits characterization. Like for instance Charter is a pretty important character in Dragon Age but they never zoom in on her so I had no idea what she like, looked like
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Dec 6, 2023 17:15
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watching Bioware has been like watching the decline of the roman empire in real time, jesus christ. dread wolf is their Constantinople, desperately trying to survive as the new empires rise around them, gradually eating away at the once mighty monolith
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Feb 2, 2024 13:37
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The best Bioware-like game (button-awesome combat and endless party banter) of our times is Marvel Midnight Suns.
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Feb 2, 2024 15:12
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Rogue AI Goddess posted:The best Bioware-like game (button-awesome combat and endless party banter) of our times is Marvel Midnight Suns. Or if you don't like the card-based combat, Guardians of the Galaxy.
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Feb 2, 2024 15:13
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Rogue AI Goddess posted:The best Bioware-like game (button-awesome combat and endless party banter) of our times is Marvel Midnight Suns. The modern Fire Emblem games have been scratching the itch pretty well for me. Your tolerance for anime may vary.
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Feb 2, 2024 15:13
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There have been six Assassin’s Creed games released since Inquisition came out (Black Flag came out a week before Inquisition)
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Feb 2, 2024 15:28
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Alexander Hamilton posted:There have been six Assassin’s Creed games released since Inquisition came out (Black Flag came out a week before Inquisition) that's not the burn you think it is
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Feb 3, 2024 00:32
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Dawgstar posted:Or if you don't like the card-based combat, Guardians of the Galaxy. That game was way better than it had any right to be
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Feb 6, 2024 11:17
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