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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaNesaqBFGM The definition of a gentleman: a man who knows how to play the banjo, but doesn’t. Welcome to the mandolin thread. In here please find basic information and the most frequently asked questions about the finest little instrument around. Just what is a mandolin? The mandolin is a fretted, plucked instrument tuned the same as a violin (from bass to treble G D A E) in fifths. This makes the mandolin more intuitive to learn than the guitar with its 3rds and 4ths, and transposing keys is a snap. Just as there is a “violin family” (violin, viola, cello, bass) of progressively lower tunings, there is a mandolin family of similar tunings (mandolin, mandola, mandocello, mandobass). There are also additional instruments with tunings between these: so between mandola and mandocello there is an “octave mandolin” which is tuned the same as a mandolin but a full octave lower. (*Please note these names are North American—in Europe these names can vary somewhat). Tenor guitars kind of fall into this family too. Then there are weird things like bouzoukis with the treble courses tuned to octaves.  An F-style mandolin above a F-style mandocello, both by Gilchrist Acoustic mandolins have paired strings tuned to the same note. Theoretically, that is, because it is impossible to keep a mandolin in tune. This pair is called a course. Pairing the strings helps to increase the tone and volume, but increases the difficulty of getting it tuned exponentially. Because the mandolin is tuned to the higher end of the scale, the instrument’s strings are under a great deal of tension, which means it can be a pain to fret cleanly, especially if the “action” (the height of the strings above the fretboard) is too high. Mandolins are played with a plectrum, or “pick”. These little buggers can have a huge impact on tone so most mandolin players have huge collections of different picks. Generally, you want a thicker, inflexible pick. I play with a pick that is a 1.5 mm thick piece of plastic. I also have lots of different types of plastic, some organic derivatives (milk protein, cow horn) that can sound like the holy grail tone imparted by picks made from the shell of hawksback turtles. Please don’t use tortoise shell picks, even if from antique sources. You can get equal tone with other materials without harming engendered species. Lots of mandolin players love picks from Bluechip, which are spendy but never seem to wear, easily glide through the strings (you play both courses at once) and sound pretty nice. Other common brands are Wegen, Red Bear, Dunlop, Fender. I use a Dunlop ProPlec. Picks also come in all sorts of shapes and sizes. Generally, mandolin players like large triangles. I prefer a teardrop. Experiment and find what you like! Mandolins come in all shapes and sizes. The first mandolins were lute-like in construction, and we refer to these as “bowl-backs”, “Neapolitan”, “tater bugs”, among other names. Despite this antiqued design it is still the preferred style for classical musicians.  Bowl-back mandolin with cant top Mandolins can also have a flat back and top, similar to most guitars, and they are the cheapest. (Sadly, mandolins as a whole cost more than larger sized guitars.) Examples of these include old Martins (yes, the guitar company) and Mid-Missouri/Big Muddy. These mandolins are popular among folk and blues players, and are a good choice for beginners. Some of those mandolins can also have a canted top (a bend at one end). This increases string tension and thus volume. Martin and Vega do this, but you can also find it in some bowl backs like Calace. In the late 19th century Gibson of Kalamazoo, Michigan revolutionized mandolins by introducing to a mass market the carved top and back mandolin. The arched top, carved by hand from solid wood, helps to increase string tension while allowing for a thinner top, and improves both tone and projection. Most mandolins seen in your local bluegrass jam are carved, arched top, models, but you also commonly see them in celtic sessions. Mandolins are further divided by shape. Round symmetrical instruments are referred to as A-style, although that is specifically a designation of the Gibson company. The mandolins you see bluegrass players use with the points and curlie scroll at the top is an F-style (for Florentine, although this is a development of late Victorian garishness and again a Gibson designation). The extra bits cost more money and add nothing to tone, but some folks like the look. Others want to “be like Bill”. The points do help keep the mandolin in good playing position. I have even played one of the infamous “watermellondolins” made by Old Wave Mandolins builder and notorious smart rear end Bill Bussman. He has also developed an A-style with two points in the front that he calls a C#-style (half way between A and F).  Old Gibson A-style with oval hole Tone is a by product of a lot of factors. One of the major ones is the shape of the sound hole in the top. Round holes tend to have an open, full sound. F-holes, like in a violin, focus the sound and help project it to fill a theatre. Typically, folk and celtic players prefer round holes, and bluegrass F-hole, but this varies by individual player preference. (In fact, keep this in mind with all things mandolin, that any instrument can play any role, so don’t get too worked up about it!) F-style mandolins can have round holes or f-holes. Same with A-style mandolins. Tone is also affected by wood species. Most mandolins are designed like violins with a top (also called the soundboard) of spruce and sides and back of maple. The most coveted mandolin, the Gibson F-style signed by acoustic engineer Lloyd Loar between 1922-1924, is specifically Red spruce from the Adirondacks (also called Adirondack spruce), and Red maple from Michigan. Other common top woods are Sitka spruce, Engelmann spruce, redwood, Douglass fir, and cedar. Back woods vary more, including maple, walnut, rosewood, cocobolo, koa, myrtle, mahogany, and other exotic species. People can get pretty magical in their thinking about how much a certain species of wood has a certain tone, but bind tests put most of this to lie. Buy what sounds good to you. The most important single factor is that it is solid wood, and not a laminate (i.e., plywood). Most cheap beginner mandolins are laminates. Most of these with arched tops are steam pressed into that shape, not carved of solid wood. Again, you really get what you pay for, but what is most important is that you play so don’t feel bad about having a laminate. Some builders market their mandolins via association with European locations of wood (making an indirect comparison with the old violin makers of Cremona, Italy), so you will see “Carpathian Spruce” (Lynn Dudenbostel’s famous mandolin played by Christ Thile had this) or “Italian Spruce” (my Ratcliff has one of these), but these are not species of spruce. They might not even be from those places. Old wood butcher Bruce Harvie (Orcas Island Tonewoods) has discussed how he has sold wood to Europe to see it marketed back to him as “Italian” (when it was Sitka he harvested himself in Washington). A brief word on “opening up”. Some folks hear changes in the quality of tone as a new mandolin gets played in, and the wood forgets about being a tree and starts to be a musical instrument. John Reischman, master of tone, once told me that he believes you can “play the tone into a mandolin”. To me, a few months of playing made the tone of my mandolin sound more relaxed, or “open”, like it had the sound holes stuffed with socks before, and now these have been pulled out. This subject sets off threadnaughts on the Mandolin Café like no other. There is general agreement that it only happens with carved, solid wood soundboards. The takeaway: buy a mandolin that sounds good now, and don’t hope it will get better eventually, lest you be disappointed.
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Dec 2, 2017 23:40
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Okay. I am ready to shop. What is a good instrument for a beginner? Mandolins are a big investment to make when you aren’t sure if it will stick. Don’t get the cheapest thing just “to see”. Buy the best you can afford, but be reasonable. What is important is 1) solid wood, 2) straight neck, and 3) well set up. -Set up is absolutely critical for comfortable play. Your fingers will hurt until you build your calluses up. A bad set up will make them always hurt, and you will not sound good, will feel bad about yourself, and probably take up heavy drinking. -Consider buying used. The Mandolin Café has a great classifieds section. -Buy an A-style. You get more bang for your buck that way. I usually recommend folks get a Kentucky 150 from Elderly Music in Lansing, Michigan. These are solid wood, sound decent, and come professionally set up. Other brands to look at are Eastman, Michael Kelly, Big Muddy, Howard Morris, The Loar, etc. Do not expect the teenaged metal head at Guitar Center to know anything about mandolins but getting out to a shop that has some mandolins in stock is a huge plus. Remember though: solid wood. Strings Thicker on arched tops, like the D’Addario J-74 phosphor bronze set I use. Light on flat tops. ALWAYS light on old bowl backs—a heavy gauge string can warp the neck. Classical players love Thomasticks. Some folks swear by stainless steel but I think they sound dead out of the package. Change your phosphor bronze strings when the brightness disappears. See this page on how to do it. Prepare to bleed. How to hold the mandolin Let’s just let Mike Marshall handle this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmagoBQunZI OK, I have a mandolin now. What do I do with it? Geez, play music! Get with folks. Go to jams, go to sessions. You can play any genre, not just old time, folk, celtic, or bluegrass. Loose your Religion! Mug a Mumford! You are only limited by your creativity. But I don’t know how! Take a lesson. Lots of players give lessons locally. High profile players will often do Skype lessons. I do video exchanges with Mike Marshall via Artistsworks. I strongly encourage you to get a lesson or two when starting out, to avoid bad habits. Bilirubin fucked around with this message at 00:19 on Dec 3, 2017 |
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Dec 2, 2017 23:40
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Notable mandolin players Bill Monroe. Father of Bluegrass. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvr1OituOxs David Grisman. Synthesized folk, bluegrass, and jazz into what is known as "DAWG Music". Probably best known for his recording with the Grateful Dead. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ayk_qQw0XZg Jethro Burns. Jazz master, and Chicago funny person. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J11NV3IjFug Sam Bush. Innovator of New Grass. Wild man. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ES8tUHUgjLQ Chris Thile. An absolute virtuoso. Former child prodigy, now host of A Prairie Home Companion. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3lH_Tevw5o Rhonda Vincent. Bluegrass isn't just for boys. Stunning voice and red hot licks. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnAlyNRHfPI Sarah Jerosz. Young up and comer with a really unique take on folk. Here she is on her octave mandolin. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWqeMODlW0k Simon Mayor. Celtic mandolin, but here is a little more of a jazzy piece. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jni796IFU6s Mandolin references Mandolin Café Mandozine The Session Bilirubin fucked around with this message at 00:05 on Dec 3, 2017 |
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Dec 2, 2017 23:40
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Coohoolin posted:My man. I forgot to include Andy loving Irvine there. Yeah I was forgetting his band's name, kept coming up with Väsen, which is a group of Swedes, so I gave up and went with Simon Mayor https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6g0SwPX0RRU mr.dandelion posted:That Eva Holbrook video is fantastic, she's a great player. --- Pissed with myself, tried to cut the tip of my finger off last night while making dinner. Fretting hand too wouldn't you know. Ah well, callus rebuild delayed a couple of days.
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Dec 4, 2017 15:55
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mr.dandelion posted:Thanks, I'll have to look into them. I have but it was a Gilchrist so would set you back $8k or so. Actually, I played a really loud Gibson Army/Navy pancake grill style flattop that was plenty loud too. There are others but frankly at large sessions tone is kind of wasted given how loud fiddles are. I know some mandoliners who have gone to *gasp* a mandobanjo or resonator to cut through. My f-hole I thought was pretty quiet sitting above it but folks in front of it said it was fine so it could also be a factor of where you are. Try playing into a wall and see if the reflected sound is any different.
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Dec 4, 2017 18:11
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Nice! I have Marilynn Mair's book but have not worked through it. I can speak highly for Niles Hokkanen books (he kind of speaks the way I think about music so its a good match for me--I have Bluegrass Up the Neck and the Pentatonic Mandolin), and Mike Marshall's Finger Busters exercise book. The rest of what I have are song books (or David Grisman teaches you to play his songs books).
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Dec 5, 2017 01:40
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You sound really good I have to say--self taught or not. I am jealous!
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Dec 5, 2017 01:42
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Coohoolin posted:I'm thinking about jumping for the 615 but the 315 might be just slightly above your price range and an excellent value mandolin. Agreed the Eastman is a good entry point. There are probably good deals on used ones on the Cafe. There are also some Kentucky models probably worth a look. Disagreed on whether the Fs sound different than As with everything else the same, but lots of folks agree with you so we'll leave it at that 
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Dec 6, 2017 03:35
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Happy to report that after my most recent video exchange I have slightly altered how I attack the strings and am amazingly now playing faster and cleaner than ever. Really strongly encourage lessons--even remotely done can be a big help!
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Jan 10, 2018 04:59
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I could do; will give it a try verbally first. So, everything I had read and all my instructions said do not plant or otherwise hanchor your hand, and when you play use a loose wrist. I have been using a fingerrest as a rough guide, sweeping my hand along it to float my hand and play up in the "sweet spot". When reviewing my last video Mike said it looked a bit off, and he suggested lightly setting my wrist so the fleshy part of my thumb/wrist is on or just behind the bridge. He also suggested coming down on the strings some--my arm was coming to the strings around the tail piece, he suggested moving it up around 10 o'clock (assuming the tail piece is at 9) or so, which lifts the neck at a greater angle. He also though my pick was a bit back towards my palm when it should be around the fingernail. This does a few things for me. One, my wrist is now free of tension and can rotate freely, so I am driving the pick through the strings, so I am drawing more tone for less effort. Second, my pick is coming through the strings at a slight angle, which also improves tone but also passes the pick more lightly through as the flat surface isn't catching. I can now play at 200 BPM cleanly, with even tone (same volume down and up strokes) totally relaxed and am thinking I could drive it up to around 220 without breaking up. Also, the old adage "hold the pick lightly" finally makes sense--its essential at speed. It's like I finally broke through an invisible ceiling in my playing.
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Jan 12, 2018 04:39
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blinkeve1826 posted:I suppose the simpler question is: Do any of you know of any good online tutorials for picking (and picking direction, specifically) and/or fingering positions, and how to determine the most "appropriate" way to handle either or both on the fly/when playing new pieces/improvising/just jamming? Early on its best to do lessons to avoid bad habits. Pick direction however: scale exercises with a metronome. Down on the downbeats; up on the upbeats. I usually play 8th notes to 2/4 timing so its D-U-D-U-D-U-D-U-D-U-D-U-D-U-D-U per two clicks. Start slow, and practice! quote:Oh, and chop chords! I have to break out of my two-finger-chords-for-everything safety net sooner rather than later. Anyone have particular favorite resources for fingering for those as well? https://www.elderly.com/niles-hokkanen-s-guide-to-mandolin-chords-and-how-to-use-them.htm And just practice alternating between the 1-3-5 chops; eventually that stretch doesn't seem so bad.
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Mar 9, 2018 08:52
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Congrats!@!
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May 31, 2018 05:46
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Coohoolin posted:I took the plunge and signed up for Mike Marshall's course on artistworks. I'm excited! Excellent, enjoy! I've been away from mandolin for a bit but I'm starting to realize what it is I want to do. After my last lesson with Mike I realized that my technique is reasonably fine I just need tunes. So, I'm going to rebuild my calluses, do a song a week for 2019 (starting nowish), and then start working on basic improvisation skills with Mike using bluegrass, gypsy jazz, and Dawg tunes. I'm also going to dig into some Swedish folk music and see what's there to be learned
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Sep 30, 2018 19:07
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Coohoolin posted:Still haven't managed to upload a placement video despite trying three times due to filesize limits. Fun. yeah that. I tried to chop them into smaller chunks, which worked several years ago, but not so much now. AVI compression usually works
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Sep 30, 2018 21:15
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Very cool stuff! Mike's a great guy for sure. Been away from playing lately but must get back into the routine. I need more music in my life
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Sep 1, 2019 05:27
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Welp, with the shelter in the apartment considerations I think its time to work up my chops again--been away from the mandolin with few exceptions for the past while. I will make this month's goal to work out an arrangement of REM's Gardening at Night I think
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Mar 18, 2020 16:54
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Coohoolin posted:I've switched my teaching over to skype and other video call stuff, if anyone wants to go over a couple of things with me hit me up! No charge, goon solidarity, tipping is an option. Awesome thanks buddy. This project will involve scads of new chords so for fast changes I may hit you up for suggestions on different shapes
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Mar 19, 2020 17:33
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stealie72 posted:New (kinda) player checking in. They Mel Bay books are generally well regarded. But funny enough, Mike Marshall has had me grabbing some violin music to play on the mandolin! Listen to some of the classical pieces he and Chris Thile play together or separately Been away from my mandolin for a while thinking its time to start building the calluses up again. What I really need though is focus and motivation to learn some damned songs!
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Apr 27, 2021 05:38
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Another Bill posted:I've worked through the Murphy Method videos and found them great to get a foothold on the mandolin. They aren't for high falootin' music learning but focus on simple tunes and playing by ear only, no sheet or tab. It's helped me a lot to be ready to jam with others. I'm glad to see some independent verification that this approach works. I really need to work on my ear playing. I know Red Henry from other online places and of course he's very high on the approach but he's somewhat invested
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Apr 27, 2021 05:39
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| # ¿ May 9, 2024 09:35 |
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Hey thread, sorry been away from the mandolin for far too long. Got it out today and surprisingly was still in tune. Starting to rebuild those calluses and muscles back up, because I am needing to find some flow
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Mar 5, 2022 22:42
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