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Dreadwroth posted:The Reapers have a huge hateboner for humans for some reason. Presumably since a human (more or less) managed to derail pretty much all of their plans up to this point. Don't know bout you, but I could easily see them taking that personally.
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Dec 9, 2017 01:40
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While I prefer Ashley to Kaidan in the long run (as Ashley is at least interesting, if flawed), I think ME3 did an excellent job of skull loving both to annoying pointlessness.
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Dec 11, 2017 01:03
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Sylphosaurus posted:Emily Wong THIS. Emily Wong was an established and well liked character who a lot of people think was killed off so that Bioware could put in a "celebrity" instead, who's nowhere as cool or as good of a character/VA. Perhaps Emily wasn't killed off for this reason, but it sure felt like it. As for the Ashley Was Right bit....yes, yes she was, and your reasoning/excuses can never change that. 
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Dec 18, 2017 02:16
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SubponticatePoster posted:Except Ash Was Wrong. Her philosophy was "we should look out for ourselves" and an unpleasant comparison to a dog. But if everyone just looks out for themselves then the whole galaxy is hosed since no one species can survive or defeat the Reapers by themselves. It will take everyone, working together, to have even a chance and that's what Shepard spends the entirety of the game doing - getting everyone to put aside their differences and think of the bigger picture. So there. ( Oh, I wasn't talking about that part. I was just talking about the whole "Aliens will look to themselves AND throw us under the bus part if necessary", which a lot of people seem to gloss over (in-game and not). I happen to agree that the best solution is to brow beat everybody into working together by reminding them how loving stupid such an attitude is. As for the vitriol, don't judge a whole group by the worst of the lot. In fact, you shouldn't even include them in those groups to begin with because I'm willing to bet those groups want nothing to do with those assholes. It's like the recent ghostbusters movie. Many people didn't like it for legit reasons, but the small minority of vocal fuckwads made it so idiots everywhere were comparing most of the (IMO legit) criticism to....well....bad stuff that only applied to those vocal fuckwads and NOT the majority. Also,  mauman fucked around with this message at 05:28 on Dec 18, 2017 |
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Dec 18, 2017 05:09
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SgtSteel91 posted:And in her dog comparison, humanity was the dog and Salarians/Turians/Asari were the humans Oh yes thank you. That's the other thing people tend to gloss over and tend to get wrong (this discussion is a case in point). She NEVER compared aliens to dogs. Other way around (humans are the dogs). And hey, guess what happened? 
mauman fucked around with this message at 05:26 on Dec 18, 2017 |
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Dec 18, 2017 05:15
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SubponticatePoster posted:"I can't tell the aliens from the animals!" - Ashley Williams, grease spot on Virmire. Oh yeah, I agree that was rude. Not going to deny that. But that's besides the point and you know it. mauman fucked around with this message at 05:37 on Dec 18, 2017 |
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Dec 18, 2017 05:29
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SubponticatePoster posted:Ashley says basically "I don't like aliens because they're gonna leave us to be eaten by a bear when things get bad so I don't want to work with them." Which is correct on its face, but then when Shepard does her thing it's making everyone do literally the opposite of that. They don't, ultimately, leave us to get eaten by a bear. If things went differently, say if Palaven bore the brunt of the Reaper attack, would Ashely drop everything to go help, or go "gently caress you, I'm looking out for my own?" She'd do the latter, so she's just accusing others of doing the same thing she'd do which is bad but it's ok if she does it...? And like I said, I agree that it's a bad stance to take. I was never focused on that part. I was focused on the whole "aliens will gently caress us to save themselves" which happened. Very much happened. Also, it is a an ad hominem. You're attacking the character rather than her points, which is the very definition of an ad hominem. If your rebuttal doesn't work the moment you take Ashley out of the equation, it's an ad hominem. Here's the deal. Ashley is a realist and a cynic. It's the realist part I agree with not the cynic. I agree that she was right that aliens would throw us under the bus (they did), but I don't agree with the whole "then gently caress them" attitude. And I don't agree that it was a good thing to in any way shape or form. I think we both agree on that...yes? Ashley's (paragon) character development is to help her get over that, much like Kaidan's (renegade) character development(?) turns him into an even worse version of Ashley. Seriously, his anti-alien rant near the end of ME1 makes even our best buddy Krogan take a step back. mauman fucked around with this message at 05:59 on Dec 18, 2017 |
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Dec 18, 2017 05:52
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SubponticatePoster posted:You totally can take Ash out of the rebuttal though. The entire game is a rebuttal to "when push comes to shove we're on our own." Well, a paragon playthrough is, and I agree that pushing past the whole "gently caress you got me and mine" attitude is the right thing to do. Not sure about renegade play through though. Then again most renegade choices are stupid and self defeating so maybe that's the point. But that's not what I was debating on. I feel like the goal posts were moved at some point. Also I was referring to the rude animal comment as the ad hominem, and I doubt you could take Ash out of that comment and still use it as a rebuttal. Nothing else in your rebuttal was I referring to. mauman fucked around with this message at 06:12 on Dec 18, 2017 |
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Dec 18, 2017 06:04
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Lord_Magmar posted:I think the point being made is that the Aliens did turn their back on humanity and let them die to save their own skin. The big thing Shepard does in ME3 is not do that and instead help those Aliens who abandon humanity solve their problems which convinced them to help humanity instead of leaving them to their fate. Thank you. Aces High posted:Jennifer Hale is the "better Shepard" depending on what kind of game you are playing. Mark Meer is a comedian through and through so I've always found his delivery of lines to work well if you're more interested in levity and schlock, which is more what the first 2 games focused on. Sure he does drama a lot better here in ME3 but I almost feel like that's forced on him due to the story. It's why when we get to a certain DLC I found his delivery waaaaay better than Jennifer Hale. His neutral inflection in ME1 and (to an extent) ME2 came off as trying to Meer trying to emulate Kurt Russel's Soldier movie. Which totally worked for me. To the point that I find femshep to almost be too emotive early on. In the 3rd game I find it's a moot point because by that time it felt like M. shep had caught up in the emotion department while keeping the superior comedy. Also, I never had a problem with Carth. I just don't care for Kaidan. He's boring. Unless you turn him renegade of course, then he's full on  But if I recall correctly he doesn't keep that development past 1. I might be wrong. mauman fucked around with this message at 09:02 on Dec 18, 2017 |
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Dec 18, 2017 08:58
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The Door Frame posted:Really? I feel like Hale is more genuine and consistent in her delivery throughout the series, and is the better Shepard for it. Meer may do most of the wry, playful dialogue lines better than her, but some of his serious/dramatic lines were more stilted in 1 and still felt slightly off in 2 and 3 when compared to Hale's. This is a Bioware series, so stilted delivery is baked into their dialogue system, but MaleShep feels like he's more of a "video game character" Hence why I made the comparison to the movie Soldier. It just worked for me 
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Dec 18, 2017 12:39
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