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theres no e in gawain you idiot. you loving imbecile tolkien's translation is, surprisingly, not very good. marie borrof's is more faithful to the original than armitage's (and the one that undergraduates usually read in class), but armitage's is more readable and 'poetic'. i recommend his. also, the US printings of armitage's text have the Middle English in facing-page e: note that tolkien's translation is not very good; his edition is very good. this one, however, is at least as good. it's also cheaper, and has the other four* poems believed to be by the same author. i'd get that edition if you're going to take a hack at the ME (which I strongly recommend; it's not easy but it's extremely rewarding and vastly superior experience than the translation) *Pearl (a sad and weird and haunting dream-vision about the narrator's dead daughter[?]), Patience (a retelling of the story of Jonas), and Cleanness (mostly about marriage). it lacks St. Erkenwald, which most scholars think is probably by the same author. that involves the titular saint bringing a pagan back from the dead. chernobyl kinsman fucked around with this message at 04:15 on Dec 5, 2017 |
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Dec 5, 2017 04:02
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the entire poem is a circumcision metaphor the green knight arrives on december 31st. a year and a day later, on january 1st, gawain's neck is nicked by the green knight's axe, a moment that signals his entry into manhood and permanently marks him. january 1st, eight days after christmas, is the feast of the circumcision of christ, as any medieval reader would have known. the entire poem is a circumcision metaphor, and it ends with gawain being circumcised.
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Dec 5, 2017 04:10
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:He's Gawaine in Howard Pyle and that's where I met him i haven't read pyle's arthur but i love the hell out of his robin hood. i should get on that
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Dec 5, 2017 04:16
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some notes on the first few stanzas, if anyone is interested: the first stanza is setting the poem in a broader historical context as the author and his readers understood it. the best medieval scholarship taught that the Britons (the Welsh) were descended from Brutus, a descendent of Aeneas who sailed west to settle Britain (hence its name, sort of). the bit about Aeneas being a traitor is also derived from medieval tradition, which held that he had betrayed Troy and helped to bring about its downfall. i'm not sure where that came from originally; certainly not the Aeneid. the third stanza places a heavy emphasis on youth - the new year is 'ȝep', or young, Arthur is 'childgered' (childlike), the court is described as being in its 'first age'. this is a specific moment in time situated within the broader cycle of the rise and fall of kingdoms which was introduced in the first stanza. it's a theme which is reinforced by the reader's foreknowledge: Arthur's kingdom, like troy, will grow old and fall; like troy, it will be brought low by treason. this cycle of death and rebirth has obvious seasonal resonances, too, since this is yuletide and the New Year. this also relates to the central motif of the Beheading Game, which is of course itself connected to the passing of seasons and lives. hopefully some of that made sense, it's late and i've had wine.
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Dec 7, 2017 07:09
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:So much for my golden bough king-of-the-year theory the bough may be largely discredited but i dont think anyone really doubts that the Beheading Game is a vestige of an old celtic year king/fertility myth, anymore than anyone doubts that the Loathly Lady of Chaucer's Wife of Bath's Tale (and the Wedding of Sir Gawain and Dame Ragnelle/the Marriage of Sir Gawain, both of which are available on the METS website in the Gawain romances edition) is an Irish sovereignty goddess for that matter Guinevere is beyond a doubt an attenuated mythological figure. her name (Gwenhwyfar in Welsh) is cognate with the Irish Findabair, daughter of Ailil and Medb (Queen Mab), and means 'white ghost' Gawain himself probably contains some mythical elements as well; the bit about how his strength waxes with the rising sun until noon and then wanes (not attested in SGGK but widely mentioned elsewhere) likely points to some old solar hero attributes e: while I'm talking about sources, this is my favorite take on the question of the historical arthur. i'm slightly biased because i studied under this guy, but i think it's a brilliant read. its a JSTOR link but you should be able to read it online without institutional access if you make an account, otherwise i can email it to anyone who's interested chernobyl kinsman fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Dec 10, 2017 |
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Dec 10, 2017 19:45
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weirdly the UK printing of the Armitage translation is not facing page, iirc
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Dec 11, 2017 04:58
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here they've digitzed the entirety of the manuscript in which SGGK survives. it starts on this page. it's worth a look to get an idea of a) the illustrations (illuminations) and b( how wildly differently the text is formatted in the manuscript vs. in modern printed editionsStuporstar posted:drat. That's exactly what I wanted to know. Thanks. I guess I'll be waiting for the US edition then. In the meantime, I'll keep at the ME versions online. try this, which is Tolkien's edition of the middle english with glosses for just about every problematic word. just click on each line number and it will expand to give the definitions. it's a little effort intensive, but still better (and more faithful) than jumping back and forth between a facing page translation, imo chernobyl kinsman fucked around with this message at 08:02 on Dec 11, 2017 |
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Dec 11, 2017 07:59
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Groke posted:I am Norwegian and did the usual brief coverage of Old Norse back in school, and there are more than a few similarities. yes! some of that is from shared derivations as germanic languages, but a fair portion is importation directly from old norse via contact - with the vikings, when they took over half of britain
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Dec 11, 2017 16:25
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the middle english dictionary infamously blows. use wiktionary. i'm not kidding. i'm a medievalist phd student and the only time i ever use the MED is when i need to cite it.Hieronymous Alloy posted:Like, that's almost not even a joke, the whole "ok I'm gonna go hunting, you stay here with my hot wife, when I get back let's make out" thing is just bizarre leaving a strange dude at home with your wife (leading to sexual tension) while you and your retinue go out to hunt/tourney is actually a minor trope in medieval lit. id have to look through my comps notes to list all the works in which it crops but its the inciting incident in the stanzaic morte arthur, where arthur leaves lancelot and guinevere alone together while he goes off to joust. the SMA is, helpfully] [url=http://d.lib.rochester.edu/teams/text/benson-and-foster-king-arthurs-death-stanzaic-morte-arthur-part-i=available on the rochester METS website[/url]. it's not as good as the alliterative morte arthure, though, which owns (but which, unfortunately, i wrote my master's thesis on and therefore never, ever want to read again) youre missing the real joke, though. its not "ok I'm gonna go hunting, you stay here with my hot wife, when I get back let's make out". its that if gawain hosed his host's wife then, by the terms of their agreement, he'd have to gently caress bertilak. chernobyl kinsman fucked around with this message at 06:08 on Dec 15, 2017 |
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Dec 15, 2017 06:05
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du maurier's rebeccaMeyers-Briggs Testicle posted:I can't help but me sad when thinking of how much other literature has been lost to time time, and also the cotton library fire hmu if you want more medieval lit. if you can read & enjoy SGGK in its middle english you can read anything. chernobyl kinsman fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Dec 21, 2017 |
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Dec 21, 2017 19:16
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Fedelm posted:. absolutely
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Dec 22, 2017 16:56
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the penguin classics translation is fine. even the wordsworth classics one is ok. grettirs saga is better tho
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Dec 29, 2017 18:18
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https://twitter.com/WarrenIsDead/status/377186543720349696 i dont know how to embed a tweet
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Jan 3, 2018 17:18
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