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Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

cis autodrag posted:

So on a more serous note, I wanted to talk about the stereotype that trans people are drawn to tech. Anecdotally, there do seem to be more trans people in tech than in the wider population, but my thinking is that the truth is that there's just more out trans people.

Being, on average, more wealthy and more white than the wider population makes it feel safer to come out. I know I didn't come out until I was cashing developer paychecks. People doing worse economically have safety and employment concerns that require them to just suppress to get by.

Anyway, I wanted to get other folks observations on this since it's becoming somewhat of a stereotype at this point.

i am only an "A" in the lgbtqia* and only know like four trans people in real life (at least, as far as i know) so i have always felt it's not really an appropriate subject for me to broach, but i have wondered sometimes how come there seem to be a lot more trans yosposters per capita than irl

my guess was just that yospos is one of the few tech forums that isn't actively hostile to the trans community and so tech itself didn't necessarily have anything to do with it. interesting to learn that it might be not just my perception though.

when you say there are more trans people in tech, is that more trans men or trans women? or equal?

*at least when i was in college "a" stood for "allies" but i guess it also now stands for "asexual" and "agender" but i'm not either of those.

anyway this is an interesting topic to me but i don't wanna be another heterosexual male occupying lgbt space so if this isn't cool tell me so and i will go away

Triglav posted:

using amber pos is kinda queer imo

ok, phew, i can post here.

Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 02:56 on Dec 5, 2017

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Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

among recent games, i really liked Prey (2017) because as far as i could tell there was no difference between playing as a male or female character. either way you have a relationship with a woman and your male assistant is attracted to you. the space suit is basically the same design and the dialog never changes except sister<->brother etc. there are no changes to how the player is characterized and no gratuitous butt shots in cutscenes or anything like that. it's a pleasant surprise.

also saints row was surprisingly good about this

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

Shaggar posted:

idk what tankies are

communists who are on the way to stalinist fascism

the name comes from the time the soviets sent tanks to suppress riots in hungary

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

cis autodrag posted:

Ya I usually use queer too, but it's kind of an Our Word thing where I'd beat the poo poo out of a non queer who used it.

cleve jones was on npr the other day and he p consistently called himself a queer, but other people gay

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

Peeny Cheez posted:

Those contexts being:

1) Being queer
2) Not being queer, but also not being a butthole
3) Being Shirley Manson

Inappropriate contexts:

1) Being a butthole
2) Making unfounded insinuations about things that are being done to the soil

i would like to add to the first one

4) if you are the aurora borealis and you're referring to various sights you have seen

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

You should give them to the police bomb squad for controlled detonation practice

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

one of my students transitioned between semesters and fortunately she came up to me before class and was like "hey, just so you know, i'm going by $name now" and i was glad that she did that before i took roll instead of me accidentally calling her what i was used to.

thinking of how to handle that in the future. i found a very angry article from the lgbt center complaining that taking roll was inherently trans-exclusionary and should not be done at all*, but i don't think it has to be. maybe i'll pass around a sheet at the beginning with the names that i have on the roster, and people can put down their preferred name and pronoun beside each one? but then i think about that and like, if the sheet goes around and someone's listed as "mark" but they put down "maria" then that's outing them so noooope. also probably they don't even want to be exposed to their dead name. i could use student ID numbers, but technically showing those to other students is a FERPA violation, though enough professors ignore FERPA that i could probably get away with it no problem, but i would still like to stay within the law which exists for very good reasons.

on the other hand, if someone still has their old name on the school register for any reason, but they're going by something else, i need to be able to reconcile those two points in order to know who is actually in my class and assign grades etc. this is complicated by there being like four different names that the student might have depending on what system you're accessing -- some can be arbitrarily set while others are tied to their legal name and sometimes one will be incomplete or have extra middle names and sometimes the chinese students use their legal name and sometimes the english name they go by and on and on...

to the trans posters: how would you prefer this be/have been handled in your education?

*i have sat in committees with professors whose attitude is "why do the students even get to set their names on these things? it should be their legal name and nothing else, that's what matters!" and the like, stuff that i'm sure everyone here is real sick of hearing so in those cases yeah the professor should probably just not take roll at all.

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

Powaqoatse posted:

thats literally the first time ive heard of taking roll post highschool

Most of my classes are under 20 students and studio format, so it matters a lot if you don't show up

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

For the record I will excuse students from class for any reason as long as they tell me beforehand (need a doctor's note if they're missing a deadline) and so far that hasn't been abused. Just want to encourage people to show up

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

ate all the Oreos posted:

that's like what i piss normally i hope i'm not weird :ohdear:

do you regularly measure the volume of your piss?

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

i had that same struggle when reading the chelsea manning wikipedia article, where it was quite confusing to see her referred to as female when discussing a time when she was presenting as male because the gender as which she was presenting was contextually really important, her being in the military and all

eventually though i concluded that the wikipediphiles were just lovely authors and there was probably a better way to write it that both respects the person's pronouns and doesn't confuse you about how they were presenting and how that would have affected their story at the time


Glazier posted:

Maybe say something like "Born in 1954, he transitioned in 1997 at the age of 43. Before then, as an MIT undergraduate and while presenting as feminine, he solved a hard math problem that had befuddled the rest of his virtually all-male class, only for his professor to suggest that his boyfriend must have done the work."

like this, yeah

Cocoa Crispies posted:

the way i had it explained to me was that we don't say "back when the earth was flat" to refer to the time everyone thought it was flat

this is quite pithy as well

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

Synthbuttrange posted:

Recovery sucks but hopefully it all goes well. Also, a hotel?!

i'm gonna say -> america.txt

also allow me to be the first to ask you to show bob

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

that sounds like a solvable problem

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

Bodybuilding should be in the DSM-5 alongside anorexia nervosa etc. as one of the body dysphoric disorders, yes

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

Kazinsal posted:

well this is making me wonder a lot of things I wasn't expecting to wonder.

otoh i doubt you could find a single man alive who hasn't occasionally wondered what it would be like to have bobs and vagene

(but yeah that is totally different from the sort of dysphoria being described above. the "well obviously why wouldn't you want to be a woman if you had the choice" thing, as a straight man that one is totally foreign)

e: straight isn't the right word here. Cishet?

Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 21:07 on Jan 16, 2018

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

Kenny Logins posted:

he also talks as though we are forced to choose exclusively between remedying the position of black people and remedying the position of trans folk when that is not the case for any adult capable of rational thought

i would say that probably 99% of people on the planet fall into the "how can you be concerned about X when Y still occurs??" logic trap

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

muckswirler posted:

eh don't worry about entertainers, they follow the whims of the zeitgeist

10 years ago every show on tv had jokes about OMG SHE HAS A DICK WHAT A FREAK

support the progressive agenda, practice forgiveness, and gently caress the haters

i saw ace ventura again recently and it was like, wow, goddamn, despite the poo poo that we're still dealing with, attitudes really have improved in many ways in the last 25 years. i don't think you could get away with a scene where the punchline is "a group of men see that a woman has a penis and they all start vomiting" any more, even in like an adam sandler movie or something

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

and go another fifteen years before that and the only time you'd even see a gay person in a movie/tv they would be a pedophile or a serial killer :thumbsup:

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

it's about what i'd expect from a Mr. Nice, tbh

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZK5bWjQG0M4

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

i looked it up and this "trap" stuff sounds like it's really closely associated with trans-panic kind of garbage and it saddens me to think that people trying to figure themselves out are learning it this way from the internet.

like, in our parents' day the big thing was "well you don't want them to learn about sex on a street corner somewhere!" but now i'd be way happier to have my kids learn about sex from the jets or the sharks than from the internet

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

well, that was nice. one of my students emailed me before class starts tomorrow to tell me to call him $name instead of the one on the roster and to please stick with masculine pronouns.

helping makes me feel good

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

TheManFromFOXHOUND posted:

i've actually wondered if bi/pan people might actually outnumber heteros too, but i don't think there are stats to support that.

the kinsey scale is probably discredited somehow by now but i'd bet that there are more people who would score between 1 and 5 than people at 0 or 6, yes

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

every time i am out with friends the waiters always bring one check presumably because they either think we're in a six-way polyamorous pansexual relationship OR possibly because the waiter is lazy.

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

cashiers have absolutely no shits to give about what you're buying

they see a thousand different people and ten thousand different products a weekend and the checkout process is completely done on autopilot, barely registering what is happening while daydreaming about going home and smoking the hugest spliff

also twenty minutes before you came through to buy your leg wax they checked out a 70 year old man buying a zucchini and a box of condoms and a #10 can of vaseline

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

anyway if you are embarrassed to buy something girly then buy it with a birthday card.

then they'll think you're just that weird guy who buys joke presents for people instead of [whatever you're worried about]

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

yospos is behind the paywall, isn't it?

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

Earnest question: all these situations are talking about people who began presenting as their proper gender at some point in the past, before starting the job, right? Not people who were Emma before the Christmas break and then came back in January as Edgar?

In the former case obviously it's a huge violation to bring up a person's past. In the latter case it seems that telling the office about a person's new name and pronouns is a good idea?

Like, one woman here transitioned over the summer and she never told me her name or pronouns personally, but I found out through the grapevine. I used her new name the next time I saw her. She didn't react in any particular way. Was what I did inappropriate because she hadn't specifically come out to me?

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

UberJew posted:

in my case i wasnt out at all at work

my first name is gender ambiguous but doesn't match what's on my ssn/id so i had to inform the hiring supervisor (workplace too small to have dedicated hr) who just decided it was a good idea to out me to everybody

Oh well yeah that's terrible too :psyduck:

Sometimes I forget that the accidental microagressions that I worry about in San Francisco are, well, pretty micro compared to the intentional megaagressions that LGBT folks experience in most other parts of the country

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

it's a question i hadn't really considered before. my face-value assumption was that when a person has come out and asked some people they work with to start using their new name/pronouns, they would prefer that treatment from everyone. and obviously i know that some people might be out to close friends and family but not to the general public, so that must be respected. i guess i hadn't considered that someone might be out to some coworkers but not to others. i see the reasons that it would be desirable (some coworkers are shitheads, some aren't) but it also seems extraordinarily hard to control that information in a workplace -- and pretty confusing when you have to interact with groups of out-to and not-out-to people.

wow, i guess this trans stuff is pretty hard, eh? :v:

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

atomicthumbs posted:

velcome to the hydrolic press channel

eeedrolic

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

Ciaphas posted:

I loving loathe the gym, the vibe, the people, the parking, the expense, the feeling of standing out for being fat as hell even though i know no one cares and that's what the gym is for, every single thing about it

but i've always been told if i ever want to lose weight then i gotta Lift A Weight and it is (at least briefly) effective before i quit out again

stop going to gyms and go to the YMCA

last time i was there the other people working out were

1) old chinese men going 0.5 miles per hour on the treadmill
2) old white ladies with poofy hair lifting 5 pounds on the arm curl machine
3) a bunch of 98-pound teenagers checking themselves out after every rep
4) a man who looked like marty mcfly's dad, with BO so bad everyone within 20 feet left

it's the least intimidating place to work out imaginable

also you don't need to lift weights to lose weight but there are three main things at work

1) to lose weight, you gotta burn more energy than you eat
2) if you have more muscles your body will naturally use more energy
3) when you lose weight, you will lose both muscle and fat simultaneously (and when you gain weight, you gain both too)

so basically strength training is the best way to maintain that fat-burning muscle mass when you're eating less food than usual.

i am not a meathead bodybuilder or anything -- in fact i was one of those 98-pound weaklings most of my life. but learning the above few things really made a difference to my understanding of fitness

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

Laser hair removal always makes me think of that scene in The Andromeda Strain where the scientists go into some kind of decontamination chamber that burns off their outer layer of skin with bright white light

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

working today with one of my students who is trans and noticed that they have fresh scars all up their forearms.

feels bad man :smith:

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

cis autodrag posted:

Goes without saying I'm sure, but don't mention that you noticed to them. Lots of my friends growing up cut and having teachers show concern tended to just send the into a fresh episode.

yeah, i know. it's shocking but i recognize that it is not a life-threatening emergency (until it is, i suppose), and making a deal out of it would generally be more harmful than the cutting itself.

if they came in with blood still dripping down their arms etc. i would probably treat it as i would any other classroom injury -- give them the first aid kit and/or walk them down to the health center and/or call the ambulance, depending on severity. (all three of which i have had to do in the past).

dysphoria is a hell of a thing

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

this may be a crass question, but i don't mean it crudely: when a transwoman gets bottom surgery, how much input do you get into the look of your new parts? is it like a nose job and there's a book with pictures and you go "give me that one," or do different doctors have different personal styles, or is the appearance mostly dictated by your own geometry and what the doctor can do with it, or what?

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

One of my students clearly used to have gauged ears but doesn't anymore so her earlobes are floppy and weird looking

Don't gauge your ears imo

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

someday trans people are gonna have the option of cybernetic vagenes/peenys and he'll be vindicated

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

ate all the Oreos posted:

like on command? so you can like, move all your weight to your fist as you swing it to send someone flying?

This but with muscles is how I imagine the weirding way works

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Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

are there trans men who specifically aim to achieve male-pattern baldness?

it's distinctively male, sure, but i wouldn't say it's all that desirable

like "oh man i really wish i had balls and also that when i get old they dangle down between my thighs"

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