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Wingnut Ninja posted:This is one of the most fascinating unexplored angles of that ability. Thousands of lives' worth of memories, but no old people. Frank didn't really care too much about the details here, so there's room to handwave it away. Ego memories might be more like reconstructions based on the sum of memories they copied to their genes up until they passed them on, and then you also have their descendants' memories, probably some degree of ability to see the past and future, and maybe some mentat abilities in the mix.
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Apr 9, 2024 16:48
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I haven't really nailed it down, but my feeling is that once the events of Messiah play out you have to accept the existence of some kind of Akashic records where these memories are accessed, rather than anything that can be explained by even a pseudoscientific concept of genetic memory.
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Apr 9, 2024 16:51
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Halloween Jack posted:I haven't really nailed it down, but my feeling is that once the events of Messiah play out you have to accept the existence of some kind of Akashic records where these memories are accessed, rather than anything that can be explained by even a pseudoscientific concept of genetic memory. If you get to Chapterhouse yeah, this is basically it.
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Apr 9, 2024 16:59
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Halloween Jack posted:Yeah, this is the kind of science fiction I love, the kind that takes advertisements in comic books seriously and imagines that the Ubermensch will be a master of neurolinguistic programming and Count Dante's World's Deadliest Fighting Secrets. Frank Herbert in his sixties: 
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Apr 9, 2024 17:09
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Glassing the surface of Rakis to own the libs
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Apr 9, 2024 17:25
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We will never forgive and we will never forget.
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Apr 9, 2024 17:29
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the scattering whores are starting to get better at comedy and it's making everyone nervous
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Apr 9, 2024 18:07
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Duncan Idaho (R-ID)
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Apr 9, 2024 18:25
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i want to see Jason Momoa have a panic attack when he sees some ladies smooching.
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Apr 9, 2024 19:22
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Halloween Jack posted:I haven't really nailed it down, but my feeling is that once the events of Messiah play out you have to accept the existence of some kind of Akashic records where these memories are accessed, rather than anything that can be explained by even a pseudoscientific concept of genetic memory. For sure, in the first book it feels like there's an attempt at a scientific/physical explanation for other memory as having a genetic basis, and prescience being more or less super-mentat levels of extrapolation. But eventually it just turns into Pure loving Magic.
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Apr 10, 2024 00:10
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The Sausages posted:I'm almost sure this is a reference to that other fictional universe where a rugged people hold a monopoly on a life-extending substance that can only be produced by giant animals on their desert planet. One word away from Avatar 2, ha.
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Apr 10, 2024 00:38
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Why didn't he say I will bend like a reed in the wind 😭
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Apr 10, 2024 01:17
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time for a AAA Hollywood Instrumentality of Mankind movie Dune walked so Norstrilia could fly.
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Apr 10, 2024 02:10
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HE DIDNT SAY IT GOD DAMNIT I waited 6 HOURS OF DUNE CONTENT TO HEAR PAUL SAY "I WILL BEND LIKE A REED IN THE WIND" AND I DIDNT GET MY BEND OR MY GODDAMN WIND!!!! He just killed Baron for 5 minutes Harkonnen almost silently. He didn't destroy the body with a show of awe inspiring voice action. Like seriously I feel loving betrayed. The end Harkonnen fight was so loving bland. I get it was to do cool movie silent effects but it didn't land well. It just felt kinda like oh meh he killed that guy. And not the declaration of ascendance that the body and room splitting end seen of dune 1.0 Like I don't respect Paul's power. Combat prowess sure but they didn't show off his over 9000 power level other than him yelling silence at some lady.
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Apr 10, 2024 02:23
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:HE DIDNT SAY IT GOD DAMNIT I was waiting for "what do you call the mouse that hops" *does kangaroo mouse hand motions*
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Apr 10, 2024 02:54
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:HE DIDNT SAY IT GOD DAMNIT You've been Haderach
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Apr 10, 2024 03:19
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I like that Paul becoming Emperor was kinda subdued. Fit the theme of it not actually being a good thing.
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Apr 10, 2024 03:31
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you've been hit by you've been struck by a terrible purpose
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Apr 10, 2024 03:32
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Chani are you okay?
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Apr 10, 2024 03:33
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galagazombie posted:I think people are wrongly equating the golden path being necessary to Herbert actually advocating a “stern hand” and authoritarian government. Remember one of the most important parts of the plan was making people so sick of that very thing that they’d develop a cultural aversion to it so that no one is ever able to do it again. Plus he literally hits you over the head with the message that nothing human, only an inhuman monster, could have actually done so. I sincerely doubt that Herbert thought an immortal Jabba the Hutt who could see all possible pasts and futures was something replicate-able in the real world. Part of sci-fi is looking at how new or “impossible” things completely change the context of morality and ethics of human actions. To bring it back to what Spazzle said about Foundation, In a lot of ways GEoD is about showing how prescience doesn’t lead to benign liberal technocrats guiding man to the “right choices”, it leads to incomprehensible tyrants completely detached from standard human morality. Honestly, the dumbest thing for me about the Golden Path is the idea of being SO tyrannical that everyone is too sick of it to ever do it again. When has "this is too terrible to ever happen again" ever stopped people? Every bad idea, no matter how terrible, always has some jackass willing to do it because they just KNOW it will work for them this time. I don't care how much of a
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Apr 10, 2024 03:36
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MadDogMike posted:Honestly, the dumbest thing for me about the Golden Path is the idea of being SO tyrannical that everyone is too sick of it to ever do it again. When has "this is too terrible to ever happen again" ever stopped people? Every bad idea, no matter how terrible, always has some jackass willing to do it because they just KNOW it will work for them this time. I don't care how much of a yes, yes, but have you considered that *3 hour long diatribe* MONEOOOO
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Apr 10, 2024 03:38
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Bubblyblubber posted:you've been hit by
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Apr 10, 2024 03:41
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MadDogMike posted:Honestly, the dumbest thing for me about the Golden Path is the idea of being SO tyrannical that everyone is too sick of it to ever do it again. When has "this is too terrible to ever happen again" ever stopped people? Every bad idea, no matter how terrible, always has some jackass willing to do it because they just KNOW it will work for them this time. I don't care how much of a It doesn’t stop them, as shown in books 5/6 where both the people who remained, the people who left and come back, and probably the people who left and didn’t come back as well, are all shown to be violent authoritarian religious societies most of which literally still worship Leto I don’t think Leto has illusions of moral reform. His purpose was to pile on the conservative centralizing tendencies that were holding the empire together for millennia even before the Atreides coup to the point where they were intolerable, so that when he died civilization would boil over and go every which way of its own accord. If the god emperor sends people out to colonize or expels them, he knows which way they went (and can predict a future for them), and they will still have him as a point of reference. This is why he waits till the Ixians invent no-ships and for Siona to reach adulthood to set poo poo in motion also. skasion fucked around with this message at 03:58 on Apr 10, 2024 |
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Apr 10, 2024 03:43
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Iirc he deliberately half assed it to encourage a constant state of rebellions and subversion so that as soon as one of the constant assassination attempts succeeded everything would be up for grabs and there's no real plan or clear successor. Leto II even sounds proud hearing about secret subversive cults and forbidden technology being developed by the Ixians.
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Apr 10, 2024 04:02
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:HE DIDNT SAY IT GOD DAMNIT yeah I too wanted to watch a wish fulfillment fantasy of paul becoming the ubermensch
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Apr 10, 2024 11:54
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MadDogMike posted:Honestly, the dumbest thing for me about the Golden Path is the idea of being SO tyrannical that everyone is too sick of it to ever do it again. When has "this is too terrible to ever happen again" ever stopped people? Every bad idea, no matter how terrible, always has some jackass willing to do it because they just KNOW it will work for them this time. I don't care how much of a I'm pretty sure that's the point. The Golden Path is a lie and doesn't work anyway.
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Apr 10, 2024 14:54
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The Golden Path wasn't about ending tyranny, it was Leto's attempt to scatter humanity so they wouldn't be wiped out. It's pretty much said during Siona's testing that humanity would have been destroyed by some machine force by that point in time. As well, part of it was destroying the ability of prescience to find all of humanity, which he succeeded at with Siona as well.
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Apr 10, 2024 15:42
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I think it's a both/and situation. The 4000 year reign was the necessary length it took to breed the gene that is immune to prescience- that was the ultimate goal. The four millennia spent doing that was also serving a secondary purpose of making people allergic to any type of monarchic rule in the future. So once Leto has his whoopsie-daisy off the bridge people can flee to the ends of the galaxy and it will become impossible to full centralize power in the future. At least that's the idea. But weren't the Ixians also developing spice-less FTL during that time too?
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Apr 10, 2024 16:40
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Jewmanji posted:I think it's a both/and situation. The 4000 year reign was the necessary length it took to breed the gene that is immune to prescience- that was the ultimate goal. The four millennia spent doing that was also serving a secondary purpose of making people allergic to any type of monarchic rule in the future. So once Leto has his whoopsie-daisy off the bridge people can flee to the ends of the galaxy and it will become impossible to full centralize power in the future. At least that's the idea. But weren't the Ixians also developing spice-less FTL during that time too? Yeah, I think they were working on mathematical compilers that could be used in place of navigators.
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Apr 10, 2024 18:19
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Ix and the Guild collaborated to make machines that could navigate without spice. Ix also developed the no-room, a space that blocks prescient vision, in which they created Hwi. Given the “oracles and their adjuncts can’t be seen with prescience” thing introduced in Messiah, it’s a natural assumption that these two inventions are related—ie, that a no-room works because it contains a synthetic machine oracle. This is seemingly borne out in 5&6 where everyone but the Guild uses no-ships which can both fold space on their own and hide their inhabitants from prescience. Book 4 doesn’t explicitly make the connection though, as far as I remember.
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Apr 10, 2024 18:42
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Tree Bucket posted:Chani are you okay?
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Apr 11, 2024 05:34
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Ix gon' give it to ya (what?) gently caress waitin' for you to get it on your own, Ix gon' deliver to ya (uh) Knock-knock, open up the door, it's real With the non-stop pop-pop from Axlotl tanks Go hard, gettin' busy with it (ooh) But I got such a good heart that I'll make a motherfucker wonder if he did it (yeah) drat right, and I'll do it again (yeah) 'Cause I am light, so I gots to win (uh, uh, uh)
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Apr 11, 2024 07:35
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There's an easily missed bit from the book that stuck with me, they mention once as the Atreides are settling in on Arrakis that one of the first things they do is make and distribute propaganda reels to present Leto as the saviour of the masses and a benevolent ruler.
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Apr 11, 2024 13:32
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skasion posted:...that a no-room works because it contains a synthetic machine oracle... This completely slipped by me and is blowing my mind
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Apr 11, 2024 13:41
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skasion posted:Ix also developed the no-room, a space that blocks prescient vision, in which they created Hwi. Given the “oracles and their adjuncts can’t be seen with prescience” thing introduced in Messiah, it’s a natural assumption that these two inventions are related—ie, that a no-room works because it contains a synthetic machine oracle.
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Apr 11, 2024 15:20
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I know this isn't in the text but, my headcannon was that surface of a no-field was some kind of event horizon that prescience can't penetrate
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Apr 11, 2024 15:33
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God Emperor of Dune, pg. 1 posted:"Third, and we believe that this is equal in portent to the actual discovery, there is the storehouse itself. The repository for these journals is an undoubted Ixian artifact of such primitive and yet marvelous construction that it is sure to throw new light on the historical epoch known as “The Scattering.” As was to be expected, the storehouse was invisible. It was buried far deeper than myth and the Oral History had led us to expect and it emitted radiation and absorbed radiation to simulate the natural character of its surroundings, a mechanical mimesis which is not surprising of itself. What has surprised our engineers, however, is the way this was done with the most rudimentary and truly primitive mechanical skills. I can see that some of you are as excited by this as we were. We believe we are looking at the first Ixian Globe, the no-room from which all such devices evolved. If it is not actually the first, we believe it must be one of the first and embodying the same principles as the first." Leto II to Moneooooooo! posted:"“Anteac is dead. She served me well, but she is dead. There was extreme violence when my Fish Speakers attacked the . . . place where Malky lay hidden.” “We are better off without Anteac,” Moneo said. “I appreciate your distrust of the Bene Gesserit, but I would that Anteac had left us in another way. She was faithful to us, Moneo.” “A Reverend Mother was . . .” “Both the Bene Tleilax and the Guild wanted Malky’s secret,” Leto said. “When they saw us move against the Ixians, they struck ahead of my Fish Speakers. Anteac . . . well, she could only delay them a bit, but it was enough. My Fish Speakers invested the place . . .” “Malky’s secret, Lord?” “When a thing vanishes,” Leto said, “that is as much of a message as when a thing suddenly appears. The empty spaces are always worthy of our study.” “What does my Lord mean, empty . . .” “Malky did not die! Certainly I would have known that. Where did he go when he vanished?” “Vanished . . . from you, Lord? Do you mean that the Ixians . . .” “They have improved upon a device they gave me long ago. They improved it slowly and subtly, hidden shells within hidden shells, but I noted the shadows. I was surprised. I was pleased.” Moneo thought about this. A device which concealed . . . Ahhhh! The God Emperor had mentioned a thing on several occasions, a way of concealing the thoughts he recorded." Leto II right before he dies posted:"Leto’s awareness went wandering then into a night-encircled place, a place where he thought he could hear the metal insect song of his hidden printers clacking away in their lightless room. There was a complete absence of radiation in this place, an Ixian no-thing which made it a place of anxiety and spiritual alienation because it had no connection with the rest of the universe." This was all a cursory search on no-rooms and no-globes I could find.
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Apr 11, 2024 16:10
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Halloween Jack posted:Yeah, this is the kind of science fiction I love, the kind that takes advertisements in comic books seriously and imagines that the Ubermensch will be a master of neurolinguistic programming and Count Dante's World's Deadliest Fighting Secrets. He was a lifelong Republican. Even outright worked for the GOP as a speechwriter for several different Republican candidates.
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Apr 11, 2024 23:29
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skasion posted:Ix and the Guild collaborated to make machines that could navigate without spice. Ix also developed the no-room, a space that blocks prescient vision, in which they created Hwi. Given the “oracles and their adjuncts can’t be seen with prescience” thing introduced in Messiah, it’s a natural assumption that these two inventions are related—ie, that a no-room works because it contains a synthetic machine oracle. This is seemingly borne out in 5&6 where everyone but the Guild uses no-ships which can both fold space on their own and hide their inhabitants from prescience. Book 4 doesn’t explicitly make the connection though, as far as I remember. you open up the machinery compartment in the no-globe and all that's inside is a tiny hosed up paolo ghola shrugging and going "it's a living" in a high pitched munchkin voice
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Apr 12, 2024 00:11
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niethan posted:Ix gon' give it to ya (what?) Written by Tech NIXne
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